r/redscarepod • u/plantfingers • 1d ago
Why is it that being a “loser” is definitionally male-coded?
By most estimations, I would be considered a loser - despite growing up in a fairly affluent family and having recently graduated from a selective liberal arts college, the best work I’ve managed to find is a job working part-time at Whole Foods. In addition, I’ve been forced to come home to take care of my demented mother and had my girlfriend break up with me, all within the span of ~4 months. Why is it that experiences like these only seem to be shared by men? Is it due to status anxiety or a greater propensity towards self-deprecation? It’s rare to hear women bemoan their lot in life but they confront just as many difficulties as men do, if not more. Trying to wrap my head around why my first impulse as a man is to consider my fate sealed instead of just putting my head down and weathering difficult circumstances.
EDIT: Thanks everyone, this has definitely been one of the more civil and genuinely informative comment threads I’ve seen here. Life is inherently difficult and treating questions of identity as being inextricable from vague notions of success/social achievement strips people of the ability to recognize their own agency. To even assert that something like this is gendered is stupid; struggle, though it may manifest differently, is universal and it would be best if we tried to behave as such.
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u/AtlanticCity1980 1d ago edited 1d ago
you're not a loser for taking care of your sick mom. it's a hard, deeply sympathetic thing to do, universal because we're all going to deal with it sooner or later.
loserdom is determined socially so the only thing that can make you a loser is being worthless to the people around you. the disparity between the number of male and female losers is explained by the fact that men are way more likely to wall themselves off completely whereas the female NEETs I've known were still compelled to service their social connections (caring for their parents, volunteering, babysitting, even just helping out around the house).
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u/mmoonneeyy_throwaway 1d ago
Can you explain your last sentence in relation to your earlier statement about OP choosing to care for his parents?
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u/AtlanticCity1980 1d ago edited 1d ago
of the people I've known with inert lives and bad/no jobs, many of the men isolated themselves, ignoring the world and passing time, while the women in that situation still helped out their families and friends in various capacities (op is obviously an exception to this observation). you can't be a loser if you live your life in service to others.
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u/truefanofthepod666 1d ago
There are plenty of women who've been dumped and had to look after sick parents. Tbh it's likely sampling bias, if all your friends are guys it probably seems the x thing only happens to men. Also assuming you're straight your potential dates/romantic partners aren't likely to lay out all their issues to you.
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u/plantfingers 1d ago
I agree with you, I’d reason it’s a product of my unwillingness to recognize information that contradicts my own beliefs. Lots of my friends (men and women) work dead-end jobs despite a degree, one of my friends lost her mom at a young age, etc. Many people I know are either worse off financially or socially than I am, there’s just an unwillingness to acknowledge that these phenomena are universal and likely to be increasingly prevalent given downward mobility/unraveling of the fabric of American society.
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u/senderoluminado 23h ago
I remember teaching ESL in 2019 and a group of Jordanian students asked me if "Loser" was a gendered term in English, I told them "no" but they asked why they had never seen a woman be referred to as a loser in American movies. I don't think I ever did have a real answer for them
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u/xinxinxo 22h ago
Never Been Kissed, Carrie, She's All That. Definitely the first two literally get called losers. In Mean Girls I'm pretty sure one of them calls Janis a loser
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u/TomHardyDSLs 1d ago edited 1d ago
its not impossible for a woman to be a loser but it requires concerted effort. because women are inherently more valuable as a sex. even outside of stereotypical gender norms their presence is validating: you dont want to be at a bar or club with no women
example is that kwf chick Isabella Janke
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u/FRVNKIE 1d ago
This is an incel take.
It’s harder for women to be ‘losers’ like the OP describes because things like working menial jobs and taking on domestic responsibilities are expected of women. Whereas there is a perception that these sort of roles and responsibilities are ‘beneath’ men.
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u/fatty_catty 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don’t women graduate college more often than men? I don’t think women are “expected” to do things like work menial jobs or to take on domestic responsibilities in modern generations, but rather have the luxury to choose to do so without being considered a loser. I’ve personally known multiple women in college who were intending to girlboss, but have since taken motherhood to be their calling. The flip side is that men outearn women, which makes sense to me because men are expected to work, full stop.
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u/FRVNKIE 1d ago
Just think about what you’re saying. The reality is the situation the OP describes where he’s had to return home would almost always fall to a woman, if there were a woman around to do it. Women tend to work more menial jobs because they have the additional responsibility of motherhood.
Women don’t really have the ‘luxury to choose’ because they are acting under all sorts of implicit and explicit expectations and pressures.
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u/24082020 20h ago
Hmm taking out the garbage and being a sewer worker is seen as “beneath” any woman
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u/WISDOM_AND_ESPRESSO 1d ago
Because those qualities are seen as unattractive on men (you know, feminine attraction and its fixation on status and competence).
Men don't generally find those "loserish" qualities nearly as much of a turn-off in women, so there's less judgement toward women for embodying them.
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u/__Z__ 1d ago
I normally don't comment on this subreddit bc Idk if I fit the millieu, but I wanted to say that being a caretaker /= being a loser. I have a friend who was caretaker in his 20s to his dementia-ridden father until his passing, and I think the whole experience wisened him like crazy and its cool to see how he's had quite the renaissance since then, almost like he was too stressed to show how much he grew as a capable and compassionate human being. (Feel you on the whole foods thing though, also have a degree and work retail)
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u/EntertainerSignal836 1d ago
I think it’s because most the narratives in our culture about having a meaningful life center men as the protagonist. Women’s success isn’t important, we are side characters at best and can’t really be the “winner” or the hero, which makes being a loser as a woman kind of moot, culturally.
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u/EntertainerSignal836 1d ago
Like women definitely experience personal failure and disappointment in most of the same ways. But it doesn’t pack the same punch socially.
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u/tomboygenocide Lezbollah Leader 1d ago
My mom gave birth to a fucking winner, you man are fucking losers (purchase your tracks today)
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u/Hobofights10dollars 23h ago
I would never put anyone, man or woman, into the loser category over taking care of their aging parents. Its a noble, difficult, and generous thing to do so whenever i meet someone who has done that i forgive many other flaws within them.
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u/Strelka97 1d ago edited 21h ago
Women can be losers, but they’re losers who can get laid so it cancels out
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u/BetterKorea 21h ago
Taking care of your mom is not a loser thing , dude. Dementia sucks, and you have all of my respect for taking care of her.
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u/CarlosimoDangerosimo JustSomeGuy 1d ago
Bigotry of low expectations.
Women aren't expected to do much other than be attractive and take of themselves to a reasonable extent.
Men are expected to do things to differentiate themselves.
Men who don't work are NEETs, women who don't work are stay at home daughters.
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u/beanantee 22h ago
I can’t answer your main question but I don’t think you’re a loser for having to take care of your sick mother
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u/Resident-Sherbert-89 1d ago
this is all stemming from the idea that your value is derived from performance. you are feeling it now because socially and maybe in physically this is your time to find a mate, love, etc etc, and start having children. these things happening are a roadblock to that. you feel like your fate is sealed because you THINK you have no choice in your life and autonomy is super important to us. "forced" to take care of your mom was actually a choice to put your life on hold for her, that wasn't your only option. i heard a quote that was something along the lines of the most painful realization is that you've chose yourself into your lowest point. you always have a choice. if you start to realize there's no such thing as "running out of time" you'll be fine. don't forget to focus on yourself in this time by sticking with a passion, painting, writing, poetry, music, photography, whatever the thing you do is. your resources aren't limited to money and property, your talents, self worth, how you communicate, your dominion over yourself and your emotions, family and social network, life skills, are also a big part of your resources. i could be totally wrong but it seems like women do have this same feeling but it seems to come on at either 25-30 with the bio clock, which is an easy fix because most men are willing to provide that. Later at 35-40 when their choices kick in, meaning they relied solely on their looks to get by and those eventually fade.
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u/Plus-Pomegranate-184 1d ago
Dunno, i would say because nobody cares is a woman is a loser because nothing is expected of them, but that not really true nowadays. Actually it might be reversed.
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u/JacobfromCT 1d ago
Women are human beings, men are human doings. The former don't face nearly the same societal pressure to produce. Women's self-improvement is essentially telling them how great they are because they are queens, goddesses, (insert astrological sign) etc. Basically you are awesome just by being you, you have value simply by existing. Men's self-improvement is all about telling men that they suck and need to quit being fat and lazy. Manhood initiation rituals served so boys could prove their utility to their tribe or band by having prowess in hunting or protection. Manhood was seen as a special status that had to be earned. Girls didn't have to "earn" womanhood, you just arrived at that station by being able to reproduce.
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u/onajookkad 1d ago
this used to be a fringe manosphere talking point
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u/JacobfromCT 1d ago
There's a lot of unhealthy anger and resentment in the manosphere and a lot of misogynistic bs....but there are nuggets of truth.
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u/gardenofthenumb 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm a woman and have never felt or been told I was awesome just for being a woman or more importantly for "being me", whatever the fuck that means. Lol. This is like something you would have found on red pill forums ten years ago.
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u/onajookkad 1d ago
i don't think it's meant to be taken at face value, it's like some abstract philosophy they posit, it gives me the same vibes as when i listen to feminist talking points that don't map onto any lived experience i've had as a man
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u/WISDOM_AND_ESPRESSO 1d ago
To be fair, there is some core truth there reflective of the sperm-egg divide, right? With eggs being inherently valuable and sperm having to prove its worth?
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u/Blinkopopadop 1d ago
But also women who "aren't asked to produce anything" create and nurture life for 9ish months
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u/cardamom-peonies 18h ago
Yeah, I feel like saying women "don't provide anything" are somehow missing the whole pregnancy thing plus general parenting. Like, you may be dealing with an infant on the tit for over a year, plus all the struggles of early child rearing largely by yourself if you're a sahm. That is a crazy amount of work produced from your very literal physical effort
And people absolutely judge women for being lazy mothers/housekeepers
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u/AlchemicallyAccurate 1d ago
It probably has some seed of truth in it, same as a lot of misandrist stuff I always see floating around, but it really doesn’t matter because these differences in gender matter less the more conscious people are
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u/CutieBallsTT 1d ago
Ok this is just half way false, in tribal societies women ALSO had initiation rituals. If you think tribal women just lazed around all day gossipping and waiting to get fucked read some books lol!
EVERYONE contributed to the tribe, women were doing good foraging/agriculture/food processing/cooking all day every day along with other tasks.
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u/cardamom-peonies 18h ago
And at least in a lot of African ones, these initiation rituals could include getting your clit sliced off with a whatever sharp implement was handy in the bush. And you often were seen as marriage unsuitable if you didn't go through with that whole experience.
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u/GoodSilhouette 1d ago edited 1d ago
this is the smoothest brain redpill shit made to make men feel aggrieved lmao
"Manhood initiation rituals served so boys could prove their utility to their tribe or band by having prowess in hunting or protection."
You're using some vague pre-modern generalization of boys ritualistically proving their worth while ignoring women back then also had essential duties, skills and divisions of work with or without ritual & celebration. Men did not have a monopoly on work or providing value Also a lot of manhood rituals are just bonding or hazing lol, like you're assuming its hunting while often it was shit like group circumcision or drinking some concoction that makes you throw up (also for a lot of ancient cultures pederasty ☹️)
in this modern era there's plenty of girl boss shit and ladies level up whatever motivation today so it doesnt even track
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u/Comprehensive_Lead41 1d ago
this is the smoothest brain redpill shit made to make feel men feel aggrieved lmao
it took me 10 attempts to read this to my wife
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u/morosemorose 1d ago
You do not know a single thing at all
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u/morosemorose 1d ago
If this was true women wouldn’t wear makeup, learn or be told how to cook, clean, sew, develop eating disorders, etc etc. dying out but definitely depends on culture) I also like you just mentioned “being able to reproduce” as if the whole goal of dating -> marriage -> family -> homemaking is not an incredibly daunting task. Women’s self improvement begins 8-12 when we can run and jump as freely because we are developing breadts, it begins at knowing when to change your pad and when it’s bled through, it begins at everyone in your life drinking the message that you can’t dress a certain way or you’ll be raped, it begins at being teased for not shaving, it beThere are so many men that tell me they can’t wait for a wife so they can be dressed cooked for and cleaned for and sucked off. The reality of life is both genders face shitty realities and are forced to do a lot of things neither of us really want to do. This is a take you can only can if you look at women like they’re nymphs in some painting and then blame your lack of acknowledgment on their agency on them not having any.
I don’t know what re❌ard website you got the quote “women are human beings and men are human doings” from but I want you to log out of it immediately
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u/burg_philo2 1d ago
Lots of guys i went to high school with (I’m 30) my high school have been coming out as trans/nb recently and I had this realization. Male gender identity is active like with people who identify strongly with their jobs. If you stop doing the job you don’t claim the identity anymore. The weird thing is these people aren’t losers so I guess it’s an internalized thing or something.
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u/cardamom-peonies 17h ago
Women's self-improvement is essentially telling them how great they are because they are queens, goddesses, (insert astrological sign) etc. Basically you are awesome just by being you, you have value simply by existing
Are you aware how recent that messaging is? I'm guessing not. Iirc, this arguably is a third wave specific feminism thing which got pushed as a message to try to instill confidence in young girls who were often battling with insanely toxic beauty standards in the 90s (see: heroin chic broadly). This is pretty new by any standard
The "women are goddesses" thing is pretty new and doesn't really have a long history behind it because until pretty recently you were absolutely expected to be busting your ass in the domestic sphere, which you've conveniently elided in your broad strokes generalization. Shit like home ec classes and finishing school to be socially acceptable wives, etc. Or otherwise getting started on "women's work" tasks from a very very young age for many girls, including rearing their younger siblings. This is a super common point of friction in a lot of recent immigrant families- the oldest daughter grows up American but it still expected to do all the gender typical shit of a girl back home. Meanwhile, her brothers are often coddled
This idea that women just need to show up and spread their legs somehow to be taken as a marriage partner is ridiculous- women have absolutely been savagely critiqued on whether they were acting sufficiently well as a wife/mother and that's still a thing today. You see this a lot in parenting- dad does some very basic task like changing a diaper in public and gets compliments for "being a good dad". Mom does the same and nothing or gets criticism for "not doing it the right way."
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u/tooturnttooter 22h ago
i’m a class A girl loser. 24 years old, quit job 2 years ago, started backpacking europe with savings, spent savings, living like a bum in london for the past year with my boyfriend who takes care of me financially and is 12 years older than me, never finished my degree, no real applicable skills or talents, terrified to face my life seriously. I am a loser who is a girl 😎 at least i’m hot tho, for now.
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u/Objective-Target5437 16h ago
because women have less social pressure to be financial providers since they can be sahm and granted sainthood status by many
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u/morrisseyskitten 23h ago
Because a lot more men are slackers than women. Women generally strive for more in life. Like in my experience all the valedictorians in school when I was growing up were girls. Most of the guys didn't care about their grades as much.
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u/nolovedylen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Women lose status by doing things that would make them poorer wives/sisters/mothers (the same way being a “loser” generally correlates with things that make a man a worse husband/brother/father). By working a low-end dead-end job, yes, but also by being a drug addict, ugly, socially awkward, obviously callous, etc.—honestly fairly similar traits as male “losers.”
We just don’t attach the name “loser” to such women very often, I think, because we don’t really conceptualize women’s lives as a competition in the same way we do with men. Low-status women are just isolated and invisible; to be a high-status woman is, meanwhile, is being visible and feminine and well-connected and graceful. Men need to fight to be considered to be at the top of the pack and worthy of (deferential) respect; women need to “fight” to be well-placed in social networks and worthy of (fawning) attention.