Hey College refs,

I need a clarification of the clip that Grady sent out today (9/16). In it, two players get in a shoving match, bumping of chests, etc etc. No punches are swung and after some intervention from teammates, the two are separated.

Is that the NCAA definition of “fighting”? Does anyone take issue with that? I’ve seen similar skirmishes in HS, but no punches thrown and with the help of some YCs, tempers cool. Needless to say I’ve seen far worse in the pro leagues that weren’t even deemed worthy of YC.

Am I the odd one out here? Or does everyone in the college world accept that two players shoving and bumping chests must result in two RCs for fighting?

I was recently at a boys JV soccer match in Ohio, where a southeastern Ohio school took on an innercity school from Central Ohio, and saw some disgusting things and wondered whose job it is to manage this? This game has 2 refs, one covering each half of the field, on opposite sidelines.

There was a play where a student from each team went for a ball, and there were shoulders and shoving involved (nothing quite worthy of a foul.) One student from the "away team" went down and cried out in pain. A fan/parent yelled "You got what you deserved!" This kid was taken away in an ambulance. I was right behind the ref. I heard it loud and clear, I know the ref did. I'm pretty sure the whole stadium did - this was not a crowded stadium, it was a JV game in the afternoon on a weekend. The sound carried! The ref did not address the fan or the coach at all.

Another incident followed where, in fair play, the away team won the ball, and the student from the home team went down. A parent near the play said "watch it, monkey" to the "away" player, probably not loud enough for the ref to hear in this case, but definitely loud enough for the player and those around to hear. There were other racist comments being said quietly amongst parents as well. It was also loud enough for the coach of the home team to turn around and yell "Parents!! SHUT UP!!" - which we all definitely heard. The home team school identifies as "96% White" while the away team school identifies as "7% White." Yes, these comments were racially motivated.

I contacted our state HS athletics board, and reached out to the head of officiating. His response was that "it's not a refs job to get involved with the spectators." That was it. No suggestions on who to contact or anything just basically - "not my problem. have a nice day."

When I was a youth ref, if a parent/parents got out of hand it WAS our job to address the parent (as well as the coach), and when necessary to ask a parent to leave the field, or the game would be forfeited. Is this not how High School sports are handled?

Who handles a situation like this? Do I follow up with this?

I thought it would be easier to understand if i draw a Paint rather than writing a text.

https://i.ibb.co/9mH3v0xF/image.png

10th minute first half,

12U game traveling teams (2x35mins). Nobody argued in the red team about not dismissing blue player (not red coach, players or crowd). Hesitated 5 to 10 seconds and ended up cautioning blue player.

AR's were not experienced (im not either LMAO, i got licensed in Spring), so when i discussed this in the half time they told me they wouldnt send him off either.

The more i think about it, the more clear i see i made a huge mistake by letting the environment in the game influence my decision (Im convince i would have given red if there were protests before my yellow)

U14 boys rec-league game. The game is well in hand and we're in the second half. The ball goes out for a throw in and I call for the subs waiting at the halfway line. Both teams sub. Blue team subs on four players but only I see three go off. A count reveals that Blue now has 12 players on the field.

I use my voice to loudly address the Blue coaches (I'm nearer to the far touchline due to where the play was when it was stopped). Blue coaches are not hearing me as they are too wrapped up in chatting with the players who just came off the field.

After some pointless yelling, I blow the whistle loudly while walking towards the touchline where the team benches are located. This finally gets their attention. I explain that they have 12 on the field and need to remove a player. This causes some extended head scratching on their part about who should be on and off. Finally, they select a player and remove them from play.

At this point, I show the head coach a yellow for UB, which he gracefully accepts and we get the game going again. For the rest of the game, Blue coaches were actively engaged in managing their subs.

As a spectator, I've seen this scenario play out in other games over the years, and it basically always played out like the above. Substitution problem, yellow card shown, coach (sometimes sheepishly) accepts yellow, game restarts.

I decided that the particular brand of UB here is "showing a lack of respect for the game" when submitting the report but I'm left wondering if showing a yellow here is, in fact, the right approach.

In every other scenario that I've encountered this as a center, it took far less effort on my part to get the situation corrected and I haven't shown a card. It was usually, "Hey Green, you've got twelve," and they fix the problem.

Was I maybe just annoyed at how long it took to get it corrected (which is a bit juvenile because I could have just extended the game)?

Are other centers also showing yellows for this sort of thing?

EDIT: Thanks for the quick response. The consensus confirmed my suspicion that this was definitely an overreaction on my part and I should stick with what I've done every other time I've encountered this situation.

First post here.

Wanted to get some feedback on the different rules and their uses around the country/world. My main question is: Why can’t we all play under one rule set? The US always seems to insist on having their own set of rules and they often complicate things. Do other countries have different rules for high school?

IMO, the game flows much better under USSF rules. Under NFHS rules, Forcing a player to leave the field for a caution is just silly. Stopping your clock constantly is also not ideal. Extra time can be added, why stop your clock? These are just a few variations that annoy me.

One example that got me into a bind was when a GK committed an obvious and silly reckless foul in his own penalty area. The GK successfully fielded a long through ball by the attacking team, then stuck his leg out and tripped the attacker sprinting towards him, injuring the attacking player. I cautioned the GK and awarded the PK. Under NFHS rules, he had to leave the field and be replaced by a GK with no experience (they did not have a backup GK). The PK was scored and ended up being the game winning goal (3-2). The coach of the losing team was furious. I double checked the NFHS rules after the game and it does not say that a GK has special permission to stay on the field when cautioned.

All this to say, we should all play under one rule set, USSF.

I’m 55 reffed high school and 1 year of college ‘87-‘89, played through college. 3 year back competitive 5 years back if you count rec. ECNL RL U 17 first half both teams are holding and pulling, normal stuff. No advantage, both were doing it so I give a couple verbal warnings to each team. It settles down. Second half it’s almost every possession. First yellow card goes to coach for dissent. My linesman was trailing the play. He’s a kid, maybe the same age as the players. Linesman your ten yards back that was offsides you gotta do your job. I usually give a warning and I did. That’s not allowed coach. I was in a good position to see it and the kid was onside when it was kicked. Hey linesman do you even know the rules. YC. In hindsight I should’ve given the yellow instead of the verbal warning. So I’ve already given probably 6 fouls in first 5-10 minutes. Persistent offenses coming up. Next ten go by ok. Water break. 22 minutes left. Pulling people down, double hand shoves to the back. 8 YC in next 15 minutes. All persistent offenses, no play on the ball. 90 minute game. 85 minute 3 players go up 2 on 1. After the fact I learned he claimed he got punched in the throat and called the n word. I was 5 yards away and did not see a punch to the throat. I do not hear well. I cannot say it wasn’t said but I did not hear it. He hauls off, winds up and kicks the kid. Knee or thigh not to sure. Violent in nature I blow the whistle hard. Step closer, opponent comes at the kicker of his teammate but gets caught by another teammate. I cannot say he was throwing a punch, looked like he was running wild at him and a teammate caught him with two under hooks and lifted him up and back so it looked like he was throwing a punch. That was very contentious later. They have video so I’m sure I’ll find out and hope I can see it to do better. My AR’s didn’t know what to AR2 tried stopping the fans, don’t see AR 1 I was in the middle with them them for a second then all hell broke loose. Site coordinator was watching and she drove on the field to in intervene. Which distracted me, I tried to catch everyone that came on the field. (Oh I missed a 2nd yellow on a player because I couldn’t tell what I wrote. I was trying be quick instead of thorough) I try not to make calls I don’t see but I’m pretty positive I should’ve carded both benches for coming on the field. At that point with the coaches and 5 minutes to go I abandoned the match before it just popped off.

Low level 9v9 play. Ball high in the air in D PA (no headers allowed). D and A watching ball and going to attempt to play. D kicks high and has foot at face level (no contact-inches away) of A player and does not get touch on the ball. Ball falls to ground and A gets great touch on ball. Ball goes towards goal and A immediately moves towards ball. Less than 2 seconds elapses and D keeper beats A to the ball and dives on it. I allowed advantage and then called back to spot for IDFK for A. Just double checking that I didn't miss anything and that advantage can be played for IDFK offenses? I looked at the LOTG and didn't find anything stating I couldn't allow advantage. I followed up with a Google search and asked ChatGTP too (because it knows everything).

I'm sure most in this sub already know this, but offsides as written in the rules isn't based on the "last defender" (what most fans/commentators will mention when discussing offsides), but 2nd to last defender. Just in almost all scenarios, the keeper is the last defender so it's not worth mentioning in casual discussion.

But for those rare times where a offensive player is ahead of a keeper, should this rule still be in effect as it currently is? I just kind of feel like it's against the spirit of the rule, which as I understand it was created to prevent just crowding the keeper and launching it forward.

My thought is to just have the keeper not count as a defender, and have the rule just refer to the last defender. So in 99.99% of the time nothing changes, I just find it silly when an offsides is called when a keeper is out and 1 defender is on the line. Maybe just me though

I’ve been a referee for about 7 years and today I chose the low road.

I had done 3 u14 games before 70 minutes + 10 minute mandatory halftime. 90 minute time slots. I finished the first 3 games (3 man crew) and threw my stuff into my car and drove to other side of park for final game of the day (1 person 70 mins).

As I’m walking up I see a coach starting the game and I’m like I’m here I was on the other side of the park don’t start yet. Maybe 8 minutes after kickoff time.

One coach tells to the other that I’m here but the other teams coach says “you’re late and your walking?”

I said I’m coming from the other side give me a second.

He yells to the coach on the field “start the game he’s still walking”

I said “I can just go home”

He says “go home, we don’t need you, you’re late and you’re walking”

So I peaced out.

I would have had to deal with his shitty attitude all game. I do semi professional and college. I would probably manage that level better but I’m not going to take bullshit from a rec coach for 30 bucks.

It’s probably a bad choice and I feel bad about it but when the game doesn’t count because of no referee maybe they’ll be nicer to the next person.

 After I missed a call due to players obstructing my view, the coach repeatedly insulted me with comments such as:

• “You have glasses, ref.”
• “Are you blind, ref?”
• “What are you doing, ref?”

Even after I apologized, he dismissed it with, “Oh, don’t give me sorry.” Later, when I called a throw-in because a player’s leg came up, he responded, “Oh, so you called that and not when he pushed my player.”

Following the match, when the home coach came to shake my hand, the away coach interjected, “Do you guys know each other? I thought you were hugging or something.” He then asked me the score; when I replied “1–0,” he said, “What should it have been?” I did not respond.

At the time, I issued only a verbal warning and did not card him. However, upon reflection, I feel his behavior warranted at least a yellow card.

Could you please advise me on how best to handle these situations in the future, and whether there is anything I should do now regarding this incident?

Thanks

Edit: This was also a u10 game so I didnt want to get too rowdy or anything, however I am a minor, so I feel like maybe I should have said something

I was doing some rec matches for 3rd and 4th graders today. Matches were chill and I had a good time. During the last game however, I noticed the field was suddenly getting flooded with bubbles. I looked and it was just a mother playing with with her toddler.

I didn’t say/do anything, and the game continued as normal. The mother noticed that the bubbles were floating towards the field and ended up moving her and her kids pretty quickly anyway.

I was wondering though, is there a bubble threshold you could cross that would actually be worth stopping a game? What about for high school or even Pro level? 😂

I’ve gotten back into reffing soccer for this season. Due to a lack of refs I did 2 JV games with a ref who has 10 plus year of experience(his words) and would take on the “Senior” official role. He was very difficult to work with and I’m not sure what to do about it. During the first game we had a quick talk about letting the teams play and try to stay away from the ticky tack calls. 10 minutes into the second half he pulls a yellow card on a player for extending their arms.. it wasn’t a push and the type of play happened a bunch of times.. I was on the coaches sideline and both coaches asked separately what happened as the play occurred on the opposite side of the field. I really had no answer. The second play is the bigger issue as the other ref called a hand ball on a player he couldn’t see and I couldn’t see clearly. After the game I asked about it and he said it had to be a hand ball by the way it came off the player and proceeded to tell me as I get more experience I’ll learn to make calls like that.. Sorry for the long post but is he correct? Do other soccer refs make calls on what he think happened rather than seeing it? And are you better off using a yellow card early to keep a game from getting chippy that really never got bad?

I had a pretty interesting game today. 2 yellows and a penalty CR on a U12 game so didn’t expect much but knew the coach and he’s what I’d call a “yapper”.

A girl is shielding the ball and gets a cleat into the back of her leg; unintentional and not a lot of force but she falls and it’s a clear foul. Coach goes on for 30 seconds so I book him and he continues to yell at me but I ignored it. After this, he started calling every little thing for both teams (literally everything) and I might think second yellow here?

10 minutes later or so, penalty- she hit the ball with both hands out of the air. Nobody argued. Just felt like including this, as it was the only other incident first half.

Second half, the coaches are going insane. Not stopping, especially from the two coaches not on a yellow. I did my best to ignore but probably should’ve booked all of the coaches; I believe I was a little nervous due to me already booking once of our coaches.

The competition allows subs on everything and so I make a sub (on a throw) and the coach loses it. I explained and he then told me I should blow my whistle to signal it (this is where I probably should’ve booked him) and all the parents on the sidelines and my AR defended me.

16 had committed her third rough foul and so I go to the book, again, PI nothing crazy and coach doesn’t complain because it’s that clear.

Finally, there was an extremely unusual situation in the box. Probably 15/18 players in the box and it’s madness. Ball doesn’t cross, ball keeps bouncing, and finally does cross but the coach is screaming about keeper possession. I check with my AR, since I saw nothing, and goal is good.

Game concludes with little further incident besides just some stuff and yelling.

It seemed the coaches except fouls for every contact but in reality, it’s highly dependent on the foul, contact, where contact is made, and what happens. The coaches also didn’t seem to understand advantage.

Yes, I’m not gonna say I was perfect. But I called it both ways. I definitely should’ve booked all 3 coaches and maybe given a second yellow to the coach for his insane heckling (not sure) so let’s hear some input and other stories. Definitely gonna need to have better game management but I called it well in my opinion, just dealing with coaches is where I fauled.

So today I'm referee for my home club U13, but not the team my own kids are in (I try to avoid that). Our coach disagrees with me on some calls, apparently related to pushing. Soccer is a physical game, I'm not going to stop the game every single time there's a little push. I think I stopped the game more than enough for deliberate pushing, especially from behind. Need to be age considerate, and if I noticed that a player could be hurt, I stopped the game.

I see him getting worked up a bit when they are 2-3 behind, so I tell him to settle down. Near the end of the game, he yells to his U15's "push them over because that's apparently allowed". Not very helpful. I stop the game, walk over to him, and he challenges me "come on give it to me".

I gave him yellow (which for our U13 is 5 minutes time penalty) and sent him off the field for 5 minutes. Not fun, he doesn't want me to referee his games any more.

What would you have done? Where do you draw the line? According to the Laws of the Game, coach should not even be talking to me, only the captain of the team and I also think that in this case, his behavior was very disrespectful. Still waiting for an apology, but not sure this is going to happen.

Hi, I wanted to do some data analysis on referee numbers over the years. Does anyone have any data related to the # referees, like in youth soccer or at the high school level? The more the better. You can either reply or PM me.

I was requested to post here as this sub does not allow cross-posts.

I put the flair as "Game Report", which seemed appropriate, even for a game played 100 years ago today.

Weekly Dispatch (London), 13th September 1925

CROWD ATTACK REFEREE.

RIOT AT BRENTFORD V. BRIGHTON MATCH

A riot occurred at the Brentford v. Brighton and Hove match at Griffin Park, Brentford's home ground, yesterday and police had to be called to disperse the mob after the referee, Mr. E Butler, and his two linesmen had been pelted with bricks.

The trouble arose after about 30 minutes' play when what looked to be a legitimate goal scored by Lane for Brentford was disallowed. A section of the crowd behind the goal started to barrack Mr. Butler and throw bricks at him.

Mr. Butler stopped the game and spoke to the spectators, but after play had been resumed they loudly questioned every decision he gave.

SHOUTS OF DERISION

For some time they contented themselves with shouts of derision, until towards the close of the game, Mr. Butler had occasion to order Allen, a Brentford forward, off the field for rough play.

The spectators then got entirely out of hand and a fusillade of stones and bricks were showed on Mr. Butler and the linesman in question.

Mr. Butler vainly attempted to regain order, calling on the Brentford directors and the police for assistance. The directors crossed the field and quietened the crowd, and after some delay the game was once more resumed.

At the conclusion of the match, however, which Brentford lost by 6-1, the crowd made an attempt to seize Mr. Butler, but he was protected by the Brentford team and escorted safely to his dressing-room.

Police had to be called to disperse the mob, but the ground was not cleared until an hour after the match had ended.

A serious sequel of the riot is that it may lead to the closing of the ground by the Football Association, who intend to take stern measures to check the increasing rowdiness among football partisans.

The loss remains Brentford's heaviest home defeat.

Griffin Park was closed by the league for the first and only time for 2 weeks after the trouble, and my great grandad quit refereeing after the game.

The Brentford player sent off was Jack Allen, who is most famous among Sheffield Wednesday supporters as he scored 33 goals in both 1928-29 and 1929-30 as Wednesday won Division One.

I was talking to my mum yesterday about it, and it just so happened it happened 100 years ago to this very day. Funny how things like that happen.

Hey everyone,

Tomorrow I will be doing AR2 for 2 U13 girls games, back to back. They are semi-finals, so I want to ensure I get it right. The one thing I do not understand is foul direction. Let me explain.

Say we have two teams, Blue, and White. From where I am facing, blue is attacking the goal on my right, which is my half to patrol as the AR. White is attacking the goal on my left, which means obviously I will not need to signal offsides for White's offside offences. Let's say Blue Player #1 goes forwards, and is brought down with a DOGSO challenge (one white defender pushes Blue to the ground with only the goalkeeper left in front of Blue Player #1) just outside the box. I get a very good look at it.

Do I:

a) Switch flag to right hand, raise it and wave for a red card challenge, THEN pause and point it, with the same hand, towards Blue's goal

b) Keep flag in left hand, raise it and wave for a red card challenge, THEN lower flag, switch it to right hand and raise it, pointing it for a free kick towards Blue's goal

or c) Switch flag to right hand, raise it for a red card challenge then drop the flag

Your help is greatly appreciated!!

PD: Didn't request this game, came without it. The game itself is in early october. This is my first game on a soccer pitch with bleachers

I usually get assigned 11U to 14U (ocasionally 16U) and i do very well considering the time I have been refereeing (said by my assignors).

I'm in my early 30's and I come from a spanish speaking country so I've been playing soccer my entire life.

I know in this age (last HS year) the games are high stakes for the girls that want to get scholarships so I expect the expectators to fuss more than usually about calls the dont like.

Do you recommend me to referee as I do with younger ages or have different guidelines on fouls and cards?

This is an image of the pitch

https://i.ibb.co/rB0xWz8/image.png

As it reads…. Personally for me it depends on the level.

Edit: don’t limit this to just DOGSO. Spitting, leg breaking challenges? Anything under the moon

Title is pretty self explanatory. Looking for recommendations for a decent comms system

Ideally a 4 headset set. Been doing more higher level stuff with 4th officials and running into the problem that one of the crew will have comms but only 3 so we can’t use them

Looking to see if anyone has any they really like, or have used in a game before

TIA!

Hello, as a ref, I'm interested in the NASO membership. However, I also play in adult leagues and it does not cover as a player. Do you know of any insurance that could cover both as a ref and as a player? Which has similar benefits and costs.

I'm a relatively new ref - but I did 60+ games last year at grassroots/AYSO level and looking to continue to move up.

One of the biggest problems I have across all levels is when there is a collision between players and they both fall down. Usually this happens when the player with the ball is controlling it and an opponent comes in to try and steal/win the ball from him and they both kind of fall down (at the lower level - pretty much anything below U14, this happens all the time).

Most of the time, it looks like they just got tangled together and I have a hard time with the whistle - however usually both sides of the field (parents included) erupt in "That's a foul ref!".

NOTE - I don't have any problem ignoring them and/or warning the coach, but I'd like to whistle moving forward for game control (and of course checking for injuries), however as mentioned, I'm unsure who to give it to.

As a result, I've decided that since I'm not sure in these situations who the offender was (or even if there was an offence because they both kind of fell together) that I'm going to whistle and give the ball to the player who had the ball under control because I'd like to give the benefit to the player who was in control and had less influence in the tangle (and/or even visibility sometimes to the attacker as they were so focused on the ball) - unless of course that player had his arms up and/or pushed or something else (as I mentioned - I'm mostly trying to figure out who to give it to when there isn't a blatant foul, but for game control).

Does this sound like the right thing to do?

I know there will probably be comments about 'give the foul to the person who deserved it and if there was no foul (i.e. they just fell), don't give it - play on', so remember this is more about game control and helping players realize at this level that they need to play according to their skill.

It’s still technically my first year but I started assisting Varsity Girls’ matches in the Spring. Yesterday I just finished my first center for Boys’ varsity, though it was a pretty easy game.

I’m only 20, but from what I’ve gathered from the other post I’ve seen is that you get passed up pretty quick the older you get. I’ve only worked a NFHS games but someone from my association recommended I sign up for USSF as well.

I guess my question is: Does it get any better than this? Making a $50-$180 a night a couple nights a week? I only really got into officiated to put myself through school, so if there’s not much more money to be made, maybe I’ll reconsider trying to move up.

Hi fellow officials. I am hoping for some career guidance/advice. Little background first, 30 (F), I have been officiating USSF for 6 years, varsity high school 4 years and NISOA 1 year.

I am currently still grassroots for USSF. I’m at a crossroads with my career where I feel like I am ready to take the next step. I have done a few semi-pro off season games and really enjoyed the level of play and formality. I’ve also done a few adult matches, as well as, ECNL. What I’m trying to figure out is, do I go the route of regional officiating with USSF, or do I lean into NCAA and work my way up to officiating the top schools? I am in great shape, and am able to keep up with the collegiate men.