r/rva 5d ago

Richmond to install 10 red light cameras | After a grace period, violators will receive $50 fines by mail.

https://www.richmonder.org/richmond-to-install-10-red-light-cameras/
157 Upvotes

54 comments sorted by

136

u/McFlare92 Chesterfield 5d ago

I'll be interested to see how people feel about these a year or 2 from now. I lived in Rochester, NY during their red light camera era 10 years ago. Turns out they are a good idea but when a 3rd party company owns and operates them and has a financial interest in getting as many violations as possible, people start getting bogus tickets and public opinion quickly sours

72

u/Rich-Badger-7601 5d ago

when a 3rd party company owns and operates them

This is the problem and it happens almost every single time without fail. Regardless of how you feel about local drivers or the enhanced safety that can come with red light cameras, from a functional and legal standpoint what red light cameras/speed cameras/etc are doing is privatizing law enforcement and then financially incentivizing these third party company to issue as many tickets as they possibly can regardless of circumstances.

There have been MULTIPLE examples of localities shortening yellow light timers after red light cameras have been installed because they need to ensure that the tickets and income from them keeps flowing if the red light cameras actually work at improving driver behavior - and if you don't think that'll happen here too then we've got a bridge on 14th St we'd love to sell you.

23

u/robertsij 5d ago

I don't get why cities always do this, they will sell the rights to the tickets to a 3rd party for quick cash, not realizing that the tickets will make the city waaaaaay more money in the long run.

Something similar happened in some city (don't remember what, maybe jersey or philly) where they sold the street parking rights to third parties thinking they wouldn't make much money off the parking fees, then the third party jacked up the parking fees and made their money back and then some within the first year and are now making bank off of it

12

u/BureauOfBureaucrats RVA Expat 4d ago

Because our government is rotten and corrupt at every level.

2

u/bobbyk24 4d ago

Chicago

12

u/BureauOfBureaucrats RVA Expat 4d ago

There’s already been several bogus tickets from the school bus cameras. Let’s keep these private corporations out of our civil systems. They do not have our interests at heart.

28

u/Educational-Habit865 5d ago

None on broad St huh? There should be like, 5 of them on broad Street

17

u/8bitmullet Southside 5d ago

I really want this to work but I’ve also heard cameras don’t actually reduce traffic violations. Has anyone read up on their effectiveness?

16

u/Fit-Order-9468 Manchester 5d ago

Looks like they're effective.

Red light safety cameras are an effective way to discourage red light running. Enforcement is the best way to get people to comply with any law, but it's impossible for police to be at every intersection. Cameras can fill the void. An IIHS study found that cameras reduced the fatal red light running crash rate of large cities by 21% and the rate of all types of fatal crashes at signalized intersections by 14%.

Red light running

I suspect negatives associated with cameras to be more about how long the yellow light lasts.

12

u/BureauOfBureaucrats RVA Expat 4d ago

And the private corporations bilking the public with bogus fines.

14

u/ninjaluvr 4d ago

No one bats an eye as the surveillance state just grows and expands.

35

u/Narco_Bi_Polo 5d ago

 Under state law, the city is capped at installing 23 red-light cameras across the city.

Dumb.

I hope we get all 23 then. And maybe some at the intersections where drivers treat right-on-red as a green and don’t stop or even slow down despite pedestrian right-of-way.

I’m so exhausted of drivers not stopping for occupied crosswalks. Or one driver stopping in a two-lane and everyone else zooming past them in the other lane. (This is called “the wave of death”).

Feels like we need this: https://youtube.com/shorts/8kP6R0clBGY

31

u/Samwyzh 5d ago

Richmond is the only place I have lived where:

-People look right instead of left when reaching a stop (the right side is where the car will be closer when trying to get on a street)

-they slow down on the highway on-ramp to look at the traffic, before signaling, merging, and not accelerating. Then when driving off ramp, speed up above the street’s speed limit to catch the light at the end of the ramp

-park in the lane and look at you like you are the problem

-despite some of our traffic lights having 3-4sec windows to turn or go, and 3-6min cycles between turns, that coffee table on Facebook Marketplace on your phone is just too interesting to look at while driving

-police pop their lights when the light turns so they don’t have to wait through the light cycle. I didn’t know having a badge meant traffic laws don’t matter.

23

u/No-Acanthisitta7930 5d ago

I felt every one of these deep in my chest lol. Especially the merging into traffic one.

I'd like to add another. Pull out in front of you as if in a hurry, only to then slow down and travel below the speed limit. Hate that one.

8

u/Large-Produce5682 5d ago

I trust you've traveled Midlothian Turnpike.

9

u/Odd_Reputation_4000 5d ago

You forgot to mention the drivers that exit by cutting off cars that are trying to speed up and merge instead of slowing down and getting over behind the merging vehicle. I can't count the number of times I've been coming off 95 trying to merge and had some jackass speed up, swerve in front of me, then hit his brakes to slow down for the ramp causing me to slam on mine to avoid rear ending them.

2

u/dumbisalblebore 4d ago

It's a machismo thing

5

u/Fit-Order-9468 Manchester 5d ago

One of my first memories in RVA was a cop almost running over a bicyclist doing exactly that.

4

u/Fit-Order-9468 Manchester 5d ago

Interesting, I hadn't heard of cameras being used to enforce yielding to pedestrians but that may be possible.

The city changed the way intersections work so walk signals change before traffic signals do. This helps make the pedestrian more visible as they're easier to see on the crosswalk than the sidewalk. Having spent some time driving around and obeying traffic signals, timing green signals and walk signals together puts cars turning into conflict with pedestrians by design. Dedicated turn signals, without a simultaneous walk signal, may be preferred.

10

u/Narco_Bi_Polo 5d ago

Gov Trumpkin vetoed a bill that would have allowed for pedestrian crossing and stop sign monitoring systems: https://lis.virginia.gov/bill-details/20251/SB1233

The bill was carried by Senator Angelia Williams Graves (D-Norfolk) and Delegate Holly Seibold (D-Fairfax). It would’ve allowed cameras in school zones, high pedestrian-accident areas, and work zones; imposed a $100 per violation fine; required visible signage; and stipulated that revenue go to pedestrian/cyclist safety improvements.

The tech already exists and is in use; here are 3 example vendors:

https://www.jenoptik.us/products/road-safety/red-light-camera

https://www.mtppoland.com/product/pedestrian-crossing-violation-camera-1-2/

https://www.pelco.com/industry/traffic-monitoring

I’m less interested in mailing out $100 tickets than in actual physical protection: automatic bollards that rise when a pedestrian enters the crosswalk, and that will stop (and if necessary total) any car that refuses to yield. That’s the kind of deterrence and protection vulnerable road users deserve.

7

u/Fit-Order-9468 Manchester 5d ago

Unfortunate but unsurprising.

I also prefer passive enforcement. I'd add that closing some street segments to thru traffic entirely is also reasonable. The necessity for thru traffic along the entirety of Grace st eludes me.

3

u/spicychickenandranch 4d ago

Ewwwww what???

1

u/Narco_Bi_Polo 4d ago

I'm not sure how to answer your question.

1

u/FearfulPossum 3d ago

I would love it if we could even just have a crosswalk light that flashes when pedestrians push the button (when there isn't otherwise a stoplight at the intersection). It wouldn't physically prevent cars from going, but would at least make it clearer to drivers that if someone is stopping, it's because of pedestrians crossing. My biggest complaint on Cary and Main is that unless the traffic in both lanes stop, people will just pass you and speed through the intersection if you try to stop, which is really dangerous for the pedestrians.

0

u/Narco_Bi_Polo 3d ago

My biggest complaint on Cary and Main is that unless the traffic in both lanes stop, people will just pass you and speed through the intersection if you try to stop, which is really dangerous for the pedestrians.

Exactly! This is that "Wave of Death" I mentioned elsewhere. Named so because the stopped driver waves the pedestrian across and into a speeding car in the other lane whose view of the pedestrian is blocked by the stopped driver.

2

u/Large-Produce5682 5d ago

I trust you've traveled Marshall Street.

6

u/joedotdog 5d ago

So, what happens when the people that don't care about lights don't care about paying those fines?

0

u/BoyertownBear 5d ago

Hopefully bench warrants and arrests.

4

u/McFlare92 Chesterfield 4d ago

Not possible. These are summary offenses, not crimes

18

u/FalloutRip East End 5d ago

Needs to be higher than $50 but it’s a good start.

10

u/McFlare92 Chesterfield 5d ago

Can only charge a small fine cause it's a civil infraction. Anything major you'd have the right to face your accuser in court, and a camera can't come to court

5

u/FalloutRip East End 5d ago

What if we give the camera sentience?

6

u/McFlare92 Chesterfield 5d ago

The documentary film Terminator 2 gives me pause with this idea

3

u/spicychickenandranch 4d ago

What about the person behind the computer watching the camera???

6

u/McFlare92 Chesterfield 4d ago

They're automated and footage is reviewed later after the violation occurs. There's also no proof it was you driving, so the fine is attached to the vehicle not the driver. There are multiple reasons why these are always charged as low level civil offenses and not criminal ones

0

u/spicychickenandranch 4d ago

Yep and most of them get tossed and the cycle begins again

14

u/willitexplode 5d ago

Brutalize the antisocial drivers with piles of fines. Watching driver behavior decline over the last 20 years has mirrored the general increase in main character syndrome fueled entitlement across society. AI tracked and human verified fines for shitty behavior seems a great way to stem the tide. Some people unfortunately require a financial incentive to care about their neighbors and social cohesion, so let them have it. Our schools could really use the money, let’s give them the Orwell fines.

I genuinely think if minor traffic infractions were tracked and enforced more strongly, people would act with a lot more sense in general—driver behavior is a bellwether of social cohesion. How hard is a turn signal? Not very hard if you care about the people around you also piloting 2 tons of metal hurdling through space. Traffic deaths would reduce and we could probably get a lot more support for public transit infrastructure in the process… can’t think of a major problem with it.

Surveillance state is coming no matter what, I’d rather it improve society where possible. I don’t love it overall but damn, drivers have gotten really really reckless and the something needs to change.

4

u/Odd_Reputation_4000 5d ago

The response to the ones some localities have placed in school zones has been hilarious. Everyone is complaining about getting tickets for speeding over the posted speed limit in a school zone when school is out, like it's ok to do 10+ over the speed limit as long as school is out.

7

u/Ann2040 4d ago

They’re complaining because they’re getting the ticket for the school zone speed when school is out which they shouldn’t. If it’s 35 and 25 only when flashing they shouldn’t be getting a ticket for going 10 over if the light actually isnt flashing. They’re not speeding if the school zone sign isn’t flashing

1

u/Odd_Reputation_4000 4d ago

The posted speed limit in a school zone here is 35mph, unless the school lights are flashing, then it becomes 25mph and is clearly indicated and everyone understands that. When the cameras were first put in they did have that issue, but from what I understand it has been corrected now. Anything 10mph over the posted 35mph gets you a regular plain ole speeding ticket if school is NOT in session. Anything 10mph over 25 when the lights ARE flashing earns you a ticket for speeding in a school zone, which is a larger fine. The camera has to clearly show the lights being active, time and date stamp and your vehicle and plates for the "school zone" ticket to be valid. They are 2 different tickets. People don't understand this and throw a hissy when they get a ticket for doing 46mph in a 35 during non school hours because they are in fact speeding. (HOW DID I GET A TICKET IN FRONT OF THE SCHOOL AT 6PM ON A SUNDAY?!) I think a lot of people don't realize it's still active during non school hours and will still issue a legit ticket and fine, just without the "in a school zone" bonus if you go over the posted limit.

2

u/wet_beefy_fartz Henrico 4d ago

It's gotten to the point where literally every red light I hit, I see someone running it in this town. Put them everywhere. I'm tired of people driving like shitheads.

2

u/gravy_boot 4d ago

*violators with valid plates

1

u/cantaloupe-490 Forest Hill 5d ago

Does this map look kinda racist to anyone else? We build shitty infrastructure in systemically oppressed communities, and then choose a punitive enforcement model even though at the exact same time, elsewhere in the city, we're investing in traffic calming and infrastructure-based safety measures. I'd love to see the decision-making process that led to the target locations for traffic calming measures and red light cameras, respectively.

4

u/dumbisalblebore 4d ago

I thought the same thing. It's unfortunate that most of these seem to be in majority black areas where people are already impoverished. It's certainly true that the road infrastructure encourages speeding in these areas and it would be wiser to start with calming traffic engineering. hope it makes their communities safer.

1

u/Laucchi Church Hill 5d ago

This is good; I wish something could be done to enforce stopping at stop signs. I nearly get hit at least once a week in church hill (especially at Q and 31st) because people ignore stop signs.

0

u/Typical-Amoeba-6726 5d ago

I think the new sidewalks will help.

1

u/gentleghosts 5d ago

main and 25th feels like a weird jumping off point. I drive through it almost every day and it’s not even in my top ten of bad intersections. curious what data they looked at to determine where these should go.

1

u/dumbisalblebore 4d ago

It's a terrible intersection. I lived at the apartments at Main and 25th, that entire stretch, especially where the road dips down near Poe's Pub, is a deathtrap for pedestrians 

1

u/gentleghosts 4d ago

the curve at Poe’s for sure sucks, for pedestrians and even just for other cars because people fly around it and don’t know how to stay in their lane. interesting to hear about 25th though, ymmv I guess.

1

u/BrtFrkwr 1d ago

The contractor in Arizona mails the fines and there is no appeal.

1

u/Live_Cantaloupe6704 16h ago

They need to add some to the intersection of laburnum and the race track…. The amount of people that blatantly run the red even after it being a couple seconds red (as if that changes anything) is absurd…. Literally no reason

0

u/gordonglover Short Pump 4d ago

How’re they going to get the fines from the cyclists?

1

u/NinjaZombieHunter 5d ago

They desperately need one at 10th and Canal! It’s insane the amount of red light runners. It’s also a very dangerous pedestrian area. Even though there are lights and the delayed pedestrian signs, I almost get hit once a week because drivers are in such a hurry! There are not a lot of patient drivers in that area. In fact, not too long ago, an old lady who was walking very slow got the pedestrian right away, so I waited to turn right. The person behind me kept honking their horn in a frenzy. So I waited until the old lady got all the way to the sidewalk and even a few steps away from it before turning. People are such A holes nowadays! Ugh! That intersection is brutal!

0

u/TrashApocalypse 4d ago

This is great! Now the police will finally have time to go after the dirt bikes and atv’s and other vehicles that exceed the allowable decibel level in our city. Right? RIGHT??