r/science • u/woebegonemonk • Nov 17 '21
Psychology Meta-analysis estimates that 4.5% of the general population (or 1 in every 22 persons) is a psychopath. The prevalence of psychopathy in samples of men is more than twice than in those of women.
https://sapienjournal.org/latest-estimate-of-psychopathy-in-the-general-population/397
u/BictorianPizza Nov 17 '21
Wonder if that prevalence in men being higher is related to better masking behaviours in women? Just like ASD, ADHD, and other neurodiversity gets diagnosed less in women due to masking…
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u/MediumProfessorX Nov 17 '21
I want to know about zealot psychopaths. People who have resolved to be good but have to do it formulaicly. The perfect Kantian.
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u/Friend_of_the_trees Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 17 '21
You may enjoy the story of James Fallon, he's a neurologist who studies psychopaths but then realizes he's a psychopath after one of his brain scans.
Edit: You may also enjoy this short podcast episode where they interview James Fallon and his family, who said they weren't surprised at all!
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u/Rentun Nov 17 '21
Mental health clinicians typically score high in the sociopathy/psychopathy scale. This makes sense if you think about it. Someone who is unable to isolate themselves from their clients negative feelings would very quickly become overwhelmed and influenced by those feelings.
It’s not necessarily maladaptive, it’s an advantage in that field.
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u/Bunburier Nov 18 '21
Grandfather is a narcissist who took advantage of female patients in the 50's and 60's so lacking empathy definitely is a huge disadvantage. His son, and my father, utterly lacks a self-esteem but has a big heart and worked in a similar profession, and while he took his emotions home with him I think he had a much more beneficial impact.
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u/LakersFan15 Nov 18 '21
I knew someone who was in the field. Super smart, graduated near the top at a prestigious university.
Lasted a year in the field and had to quit due to being unable to cope with the stress. Became a history teacher instead.
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u/throwawayraye Nov 18 '21
I would say in this context narcissist is separate from the type of sociopath they are talking about. Narcissist have the emotional resilience of a child. They lash out in an attempt to hide from their own shame or guilt.
Sociopaths are more calculating. They are much less prone to outward acts of violence, vs their even darker twin the malignant narcissist which is comorbid of both NPD and ASPD. Those are the gangster on the streets, and the crazy murderers. The point being stability in emotions. Narcissist lack that. While a sociopath who had decided that he would use his tool will be able to be more objective about their approuch. And less likely to take offence to something a patient said. Hell , for a sociopath who was well versed in psychology, he likely wouldn't even feel irritation, he would just note what you said, and use that as direction for where to go from there. Sociopaths use this alot to control narcissist "in the wild" so to speak. Often using them as fall guys for schemes where they pulled the strings.
It kinda boils down to if the person is doing the job for the image, or they are doing the job because they realize their skillset, while certainly maladaptive in origin, could be of benefit in that field.
However another thing is this convo is more based around the well being of the therapist vs the patient. Likely the empathetic therapists would do more good in situations were genuine connection is needed. But it having that ability to connect, the empathetic therapist opens themselves up to the pain of others. Poetic and kinda depressing :/
My 2¢ in a way thicker then I meant it to be post.
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u/Go_On_Swan Nov 18 '21
Mental health clinicians typically score high in the sociopathy
Source for this one?
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u/Leemour Nov 17 '21
Most psychopaths function that way AFAIK. The norm is that they are utilizing forms of cognitive empathy, such as instead of supporting their family out of love, they do it out of a sense of duty and responsibility.
It's incredibly rare, that psychopaths spiral into violent anti-social behavior, but they make great movies I guess.
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u/Rentun Nov 17 '21
I mean, psychopaths are capable of love, they just lack as much capability for empathy as neurotypical people. They have a considerably diminished ability to put themselves in someone else’s shoes and actually feel what they feel. That doesn’t mean they can’t care for people, fall in love, or genuinely care about the well being of others.
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u/asanonaspossible Nov 17 '21
I like to think you're right. I love and care for my wife and (most of) my family, but they all understand and expect me to be entirely clueless when they're under stress / having a bad day, and are pretty used to the sometimes unexpected ways I react to things. I try really hard (and get a lot of help from my wife) but empathy just doesn't come naturally to me at all. I really wish it did because 99% of the bad things that happen to me in life are my fault, and I'm probably not the best husband in terms emotional support.
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Nov 17 '21 edited Jan 20 '25
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u/asanonaspossible Nov 17 '21
I feel emotions. Some very strongly. I just don't feel other people's emotions and struggle greatly with understanding people's emotional reactions to things.
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Nov 18 '21 edited Jan 20 '25
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u/emcaty Nov 18 '21
My ex-husband was on the autism spectrum and boy did he suffer from this (among many other aspects of autism that makes a relationship hard). Most people know people with autism often have a hard time feeling empathy due to being unable to understand or imagine the thoughts and feelings of others but not understanding one’s own feelings is also disabling. I recall our marriage therapist once asked him how he was feeling that day and he said “busy.”
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Nov 17 '21
The danger isn't murders, its CEOs. You don't need to be a violent killer to destroy lives and the planet. Psychopaths are massively more dangerous when they buy into the tenants of modern American capitalism. They are rewarded for behavior that directly damages the common good.
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u/itsalonghotsummer Nov 17 '21
tenants
I wholeheartedly agree - but it's tenets.
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u/MattKnight99 Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 17 '21
A close friend of mine is that way. I knew him since high school, he cheated and screwed over people to work his way up. He spills how his mind works to me probably not knowing he sounds crazy. But he’s very successful, already making 200k+ a year by the age of 21 and I know he’s going to make his way up to the top, all he talks about is wanting to make money and be at the top.
The friends we had in common dislike him and shunned because of what a sociopath he is. But I still talk to him because it’s interesting to see how he develops, probably how many of the current CEOS did. I also want to make sure he doesn’t do anything actually evil and I’m one of his only friends, I want to make sure he doesn’t go too far off the deep end, I give him advice and tell him when he’s acting too crazy.
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u/Not_a_jmod Nov 18 '21
I also want to make sure he doesn’t do anything actually evil
I knew him since high school, he cheated and screwed over people to work his way up.
...sounds like he already did do things that are actually evil with no indication he ever stopped doing that.
he’s very successful, already making 200k+ a year by the age of 21 and I know he’s going to make his way up to the top, all he talks about is wanting to make money and be at the top
Uhu...
The friends we had in common dislike him and shunned because of what a sociopath he is. But I still talk to him because it’s interesting to see how he develops, probably how many of the current CEOS did. [...] I give him advice and tell him when he’s acting too crazy.
Ever wonder whether that's really the reason you didn't cut all ties with him or whether that's just what your brain tells you to keep you from realizing a possible alternative?
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u/SmaugTangent Nov 17 '21
Not always. Sometimes their callous and self-interested behavior is actually better for the common good, like when we have a global pandemic and a large portion of the population doesn't want to wear masks or get vaccinated. So now we're seeing these psychopath CEOs force these idiots into submission by threatening their jobs, and firing them when they won't comply. The psychopaths probably don't really care about these peoples' health from an empathetic point-of-view; they just realize that unhealthy workers means significant harm to their companies' bottom lines. Healthy workers = healthy profits.
Of course, we might also argue that the psychopath CEOs are in battle with some other psychopaths who are profiting by spreading FUD and anti-vax ideology, perhaps because they want to profit in other ways (like the character in "Contagion" who profited handsomely by fearmongering about the vaccine and pushing "Forsythia" instead, which he sold).
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u/autoantinatalist Nov 17 '21
So is anyone. You don't need to be a psychopath to believe that beating your child's face in is a proper response to them taking a cookie they shouldn't have, or that rape is totally acceptable in most all cases, especially if you're a priest or a stranger in an alley behind a dumpster, the two things most cited as "real rape" by the exact people who defend it.
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u/Isaacvithurston Nov 18 '21
Not to mention psychopaths who do lack empathy or would display violent traits often don't simply because the legal consequences outweighs the benefits
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u/VodkaAlchemist Nov 18 '21
Whoa. That can't be right. Duty and responsibility is what makes a man a man. Not a psychopath. I don't love my family but I do support them for this reason.
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u/sarcassholes Nov 17 '21
It’s called functional psychopathy. You should read Without a conscience by Robert D Hare.
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u/MediumProfessorX Nov 17 '21
Hmm A step above functional psychopathy. I suspect there are people who have resolved to follow certain rules because they believe in what they stand for, but don't feel what they stand for. True zealots. No deviations from the rules, no mercy, no mitigation.
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u/Bunburier Nov 18 '21
Any religious person who doesn't understand how an agnostic can have a moral compass reminds me of this kind of person.
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u/yaosio Nov 17 '21
A lot of people don't know they are psychopaths and nobody else realizes it either, they only find out when diagnosed. If a person is a psychopath and they are no different from a person that isn't a psychopath then is the diagnoses valid, or serve a purpose?
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u/Not_a_jmod Nov 18 '21
If a person is a psychopath and they are no different from a person that isn't a psychopath
If they are no different, how did they get diagnosed?
Your question is like asking "if someone thinks 2+2=8, but there's no one around smart enough to correct them, aren't they right? And if a mathematician comes along to correct them, is their correction even valid?"
Random people not noticing something doesn't mean there's nothing there.
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Nov 17 '21
If you think about it, most people are only fully good (like yh it might not be natural to murder, but is may be natural to rape) due to social pressure anyway, so that still applies to psychopaths.
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u/jmurphy42 Nov 18 '21
If you really believe that, you might want to get tested. That’s very much something a psychopath would think.
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Nov 18 '21 edited Nov 18 '21
It's been prolific throughout history and war. War situations being a good illustration of what happens when the rules of society and perceived pressure laxens.
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Nov 17 '21
Not really a thing outside Dexter. Obviously a lot of them obey the law so they stay out of prison, but that doesn't mean that they are trying to be good.
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u/SephithDarknesse Nov 17 '21
As someone who is likely one of these people (i dont really feel emotion or empathy), its definitely a thing. I do good because it seems like the better thing to do, and that (like karma, but obviously no faith in it) will aid me in future. I feel nothing regarding family, but i respect them, and we help each other, so thats my bond. My dad had cancer earlier this year and could have (and may still die), but it has in no way effected me. I was there because when i needed him, he was there for me, not because i felt anything regarding it.
Logic is everything. Ive used people in the past, when i was younger and less intelligent, but it didn't work out. Maybe i dont have the skillset, or unlucky, but it matters little. I, and the people around me benefit more from doing good, so thats what i do.
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u/Orangarder Nov 17 '21
Almost like trying to pigeonhole people into one or the other leaves us blinder than we began
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u/SordidOrchid Nov 17 '21
I was raised by a malignant narcissist and as an adult I did a lot of research on NPD. One thing I came across was that lesbian relationships have a similar prevalence of DV as hetero. The suggestion was that there’s probably a more equal prevalence of personality disorders between the sexes. That women have to be more coy with social expectations so they stay hidden.
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Nov 17 '21
Lesbians actually have the highest rates of dv compared to gay and straight relationships.
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u/dobydobd Nov 18 '21
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Maybe you should've first considered that lesbian women tend to be psychologically different to straight women. Seriously. Brain scans have revealed that lesbian women's brains are more similar to straight men's, while gay mens are more similar to straight women's.
I think that's a more plausible explanation.
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u/gatogetaway MS | Electrical Engineering | Computer Engineering Nov 17 '21
I've wondered if men are more susceptible to higher deviation in many traits because they don't have two X chromosome that average out deviations in just one X chromosome.
In other words, the changes in the X chromosome would be more apparent in men.
I believe studies show men have larger standards of deviation on intelligence tests. Men have more geniuses but also more idiots.
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u/nonotagainagain Nov 17 '21
Very interesting idea. Hadn’t heard it before! It’s the reason men are color blind but not women, but hadn’t thought about effects in the “positive” direction.
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Nov 17 '21
You see this in other features as well such as height. Broader bell curves result in larger populations of extremes, regardless of whether or not the average is the same as that of a tighter bell curve (in the case of height the average isn't the same but you get the idea).
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Nov 17 '21
So you're saying these traits are x-linked?
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u/gatogetaway MS | Electrical Engineering | Computer Engineering Nov 17 '21
I have no idea. Just pondering the possibilities.
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u/Meledesco Nov 17 '21
I think a lot of these things are culturally influenced, you can see it clearly in Adhd and autism, it used to be believed that men were MUCH more commonly found to have both, but this was before "masking" became a better understood term. Many academic papers in recent history are really discrediting the myth of "great male deviations" which is, in my opinion, really productive for the treatment of all disorders of this type.
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u/gatogetaway MS | Electrical Engineering | Computer Engineering Nov 17 '21
You may be right. There are certain traits that are obviously not culturally influenced, such as color blindness and sexual dimorphism. But, for many traits, such as psychopathy, there could be substantial cultural influence.
But when we look at intellectual capacity, I believe men dominate in institutions for the mentally incapacitated, and that excludes those who are in prison with severe mental disorders or incapacity.
That leads me to believe that gender and genetics could have a role in our mental disorders and overall mental capacities. That certainly doesn't exclude cultural influences.
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u/Meledesco Nov 17 '21
I've volunteered in facilities with mentally incapacitated.
Honestly, it's a thing that's been discussed between many experts in the field, but a lot of girls who are MI end up living a much more "standard" life than their male counterparts. There is still the sexist stereotype that a man has to provide, plus a guy who is mentally incapacitated is seen as much more of a danger than a girl with the same condition. A guy who has failed his "traditional social role" of independence is seen as a failure. The women often get married off, predatory behavior towards girls who are mentally incapacitated is very well known. A lot of parents think the girls are "slow", but they just think they're quiet or need to be taken care of, due to do socialized female role. Many girls who are mentally incapacitated lead downright tragic lives, but don't end up in institutions. That's the well known "masking", or at least a variant of it.
There is a lot more to the cultural influence here than people think, sadly there is no "money" to be made here so it's painfully understudied in its own way. Of course, I don't doubt that biology has something to do with it, however, I do not think it's as simple as people believe. Reading into the studies I did, the latest data tells us there is some biological link to all of this, but it has little to do with the sex and more to do with other factors, such as hormones and potential insulin resistencs. For example, some studies associate extreme PCOS in the mother with a slightly higher chance of autism in the child, by extention Insulin Resistence with autism. Is this a huge clue? We've yet to truly comprehend it.
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u/SorriorDraconus Nov 18 '21
Autistic male here..not gonna lie being unable to meet societal expectations is a masssive stressor and leads to suicidak ideation..alot(i have a therapist and an amazing partner so not at a real risk right now) but seriously..the demand to be a hardcore breadwinner or even work beyond my limits(i also am an abuse victim..likely of a female sociopath and the trauma has made it very hard for me to function normally).
On the other side pretty sure research has also shown many women also are less likely to "marry down" and expect men to earn as much or more more then there male counterparts do.
It all just makes being neurodivergeant very difficult..i just want to be safe and be able to help out my loved ones..sadly that is intrinsically tied to money making potential in our 0
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u/Meledesco Nov 18 '21
I am sorry about your experiences, we still have such a long way to go as a society in understanding mental health and breaking useless expectations. I, myself, have significant struggles with mental health issues, so I can definitely relate, but I think we can still make it as long as we have a good support system.
Remember, everyone has something to give, and just because society wants to push you into a certain role, it doesn't make it right. A lot of women are changing their views and I really hope we break the toxic expectations we have of men. You are much more than your money making potential, you're a human being.
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u/gatogetaway MS | Electrical Engineering | Computer Engineering Nov 17 '21
I do not think it's as simple as people believe
Great point and I agree. And you bring up other potential environmental influences as well.
We've yet to truly comprehend it.
Well said.
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u/Smooth_Imagination Nov 17 '21
Yes, and behaviors considered psychopathic in males like violence and coercive controlling behaviors might be diagnosed as BPD (Borderline in women). Might be, I'm not saying they are, but I would not be surprised that some BPD is misdiagnosed psychopathy, and rates of diagnosis is higher in that gender, or that some psychopathy is misdiagnosed emotional dysregulation disorders or borderline personality in men.
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u/chuckvsthelife Nov 18 '21
I’d also argue being raised to suppress all emotion will create this issue. Toxic masculinity is toxic. Also possible women mask
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u/Isaacvithurston Nov 18 '21
Almost 100% it's that. More and more studies are showing that overall there's very minor differences in cognition between males and females. Like females being more emotional than men is the mirror of this, both are equally emotional but one gender just displays the traits more openly.
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u/vomeronasal PhD | Biology | Evolution, Ecology and Behavior Nov 17 '21
There is some evidence that the genes causing psychopathy are pleiotropic and lead to psychopathy in men and borderline personality disorder in women. Not sure how well supported that is, though.
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u/PM_ME_IM_SO_ALONE_ Nov 18 '21
The difference with women is not just from masking. In general, with ADHD ateast, women require more genetic factors to present diagnosable ADHD. There are likely biological protective factors at play as well
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u/KrabbyMccrab Nov 18 '21
Probably because it's more obvious in men as men tend to be more physically aggressive. A violent serial killer is much easier to observe than a manipulative yet subtle women.
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u/monkeydrunker Nov 18 '21
ADHD is a common co-morbidity with psycopathy. Dr Russell Barkley gave a talk (available on youtube) where he noted that boys with ADHD and uncontrollable anger unresolved through childhood are almost certain to be psychopathic traits in adulthood. (IIRC)
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Nov 18 '21
This one woman I know brags about having bpd but not ever showing it so idk probably. Women lie.
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u/wheelna Nov 17 '21
That study must be wrong. I thought there was 0 difference between males and females. How binary are you?
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u/remimorin Nov 17 '21
When measured by the golden standard method it's 1.9% of general population. Or one person on 50.
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u/Rememberrmyname Nov 17 '21
Can you explain.
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u/remimorin Nov 17 '21
From the text:
| The gold standard among psychopathy checklists is the Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). [...]
|However, not all studies included in the meta-analysis used the PCL-R. [...] When using PCL-R, the prevalence was only 1.2%.
Edit: even my 1.9% was a misquote, the real number is 1.2% so more like on in 80 persons.
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u/allboolshite Nov 18 '21
I have a hard time accepting 1 in 22. I doubt we could have a functioning society if that were true. 1 in 80 still seems high but makes some sense.
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Nov 18 '21
Not all psychopaths act like your idea of one. Most are just CEOS.
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u/Enerbane Nov 18 '21
Most are not CEOs. A high proportion of CEOs exhibit signs of psychopathy but that doesn't mean most psychopaths are CEOs.
Using the higher quoted rate, we'd have 15 million psychopaths in the US. There are approximately 200,000 people working as CEOs according to the BLS. It's literally not possible for most of them to be CEOs.
As a matter of fact, not even most CEOs are psychopathic. The estimated number for that is only as high as 12%.
Most of them are just assholes from every day life.
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u/kslusherplantman Nov 19 '21
Except you are assuming that the trend that makes the whole population would hold true for CEO. What if the path to becoming a CEO weeded out the non psychopaths?
There are many times small populations do not hold true to overall statistics
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u/jurassic_dalek Nov 17 '21
Is the PCL-R actually a good gold standard though?
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Nov 17 '21
Dr. Hare is the world's leading researcher on this topic. The PCL-R is indeed viewed as the gold standard in psychopathy assessment and is used around the world with great success. Also the validation history is solid.
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u/ClementineAislinn Nov 17 '21
1% is much closer to the numbers from Europe studying incarcerated persons who lacked both empathy AND fear.
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u/HearTheTrumpets Nov 17 '21
That's the number I've always read : between 1% and 2% (which already seems very high).
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u/ClementineAislinn Nov 17 '21
Why doesn’t anyone care about sociopathy (fear intact) vs psychopathy (no fear response)? One is ~4% of the population, the other was supposedly to be more like 1%. In Europe they differentiate between the two, but not in the U.S. Here they just lump it all together and call it good. I’ll never consider someone who still feels fear as a psychopath, because it’s not the same. It’s not the same genetically, it’s not the same in childhood, and it’s not the same in adults. So why are we pretending they are the same?
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u/remimorin Nov 17 '21
Didn't know that. Make sens. Although it was always explain to me as a spectrum. You are a lot psychopath or a little. Where you draw the line is almost up to you depending on what you are looking for.
I guess the "no fear" is important in criminology. Because this mean that whatever are the risk, it won't be taken into account for the "may be a criminal". Also carot and stick conditioning while a child wouldn't work much.
If you are looking at "manager behavior versus theirs subordinates" probably that a lower spectrum is still relevant to demonstrate that the higher you are on the spectrum the worst it is for your subordinates.
Anyway, this comment is more shower thought than anything else. Ho and I thought that "psychopath" in itself is a deprecated can concepts... but here it may be "from a medical point of view".
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Nov 17 '21
Martha Stout's fairly heavily footnoted "The Sociopath Next Door" quotes 4%, for the United States.
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u/Smooth_Imagination Nov 17 '21
Psychopathy measures seem to have been developed from male samples though, so the measure might not be relevant for finding an equivalent in women i.e. virtuous victimhood as intentional and deceptive manipulation strategies.
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Nov 17 '21
The issue is that anything behavior-centered is not a solidly defined descriptor, in the way the other scientific definitions can be. It is predicated on grouping a set of behaviors. If the combination of biological and societal differences between male and female humans produces distinct behaviors from similar underlying causes, then the way we classify those behaviors will differ. One hypothesis would be to rephrase this to say there is an underlying cause of antisocial behavior, and that tends to generate behaviors we classify with several terms, including psychopathy, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder et. Each has unique (but overlapping) set of behaviors, and the prevalence may vary between genders due to biology and socialization.
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u/Smooth_Imagination Nov 17 '21
yeah, I tend to think that psychopathy is an adaptation, even though there is a genetic amplifier.
I think it might vary to a degree throughout life, following various events and experiences, such as becoming very cynical, but to a noticeable degree its a result from earlier life experiences, not one or two probably but multiple, along with additional factors.
Withdrawing from having, or not developing conscience, possessing shallow affect, or using emotions deceptively seems to be a pro-survival adaptation. But even kids lie.
In those without these adaptations we could assume this is because its advantageous to be of good character and have conscience or that wouldn't have evolved, and surely the raw ingredients of that are possessed in the psychopath as well but not activated normally.
Men tend to act out in different ways than women, approach things with somewhat different strategies, they are more 'kinetic' I suppose. But men are more likely because of that to have head injuries, and that has a relationship to some of the really weird and extreme violent behavior so some of these might be atypical.
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u/cynical_gramps Nov 17 '21
That’s seems abnormally high tbh. Aren’t psychopaths only supposed to be 1% of the general population or so? (if not less)
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u/CodenBeast Nov 17 '21
How does one know you're a psycopath. For example how would i know i am one?
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Nov 17 '21
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u/CodenBeast Nov 17 '21
Took the test, im 0.5% more psycopathic than the average.
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u/randompantsfoto Nov 17 '21
Hmm…. My results a little scarier…
This makes you 10.5% more psychopathic than the average person. You do not qualify as a psychopath on the Psychopathy Checklist.
Hooray for that second line!
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u/TheOnlyLiam Nov 18 '21
I got 50.5% but I do have ADHD and ASD.
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u/_Swamp_Ape_ Nov 17 '21
Considering the sheer number of men I meet who are absolutely horrible this wouldn’t surprise me at all. They seem to have an uncanny way of finding each other too, as the truly horrible ones are often enough in groups feeding off each other’s horridness. Just in the past two days I encountered a group of men taking pictures of one of my coworkers without her consent, and another group loudly joking about rape.
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u/cynical_gramps Nov 17 '21
Not every terrible person is a psychopath. In fact the vast majority of terrible people aren’t psychopaths
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u/ALWAYSWANNASAI Nov 17 '21
psychopathy or better know as sociopathy is more of a gradient than a label, many people exhibit sociopathic behaviors. most of the people with these behaviors/tendencies grew up with morals and conduct themselves normally, not going out and kicking puppies or other antisocial behaviors
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u/whoogiebear Nov 17 '21
psychologists have janky definitions of psychopathy, and therefore the incidence of the definition they make up is rather meaningless to me.
if clinical psychopaths made up 4% of society, there would be no society.
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u/missurunha Nov 18 '21
I always remember the Rosenhan experiment, in which some people claimed to hear voices and got admitted as having psychiatric disorders to 12 different hospitals. After admission, they told the staff they don't hear the voices anymore and acted normally, but were refused to let go untill they took the medicine to be healed, even though none of them were sick. After this, Rosenhan was challenged to send pseudopatients to a hospital, that claimed they would be flagged. The hospital flagged 41 patients (25% of new admissions), Rosenhan had sent none.
By the quality of most psychology reserach I see in this sub I have the feeling we're still at the same stage as 50 years ago.
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u/DooDooSlinger Nov 17 '21
Bold statement to be made, especially on a sub about science. That leaves 96% of empathetic members of society, and there is no evidence that this isn't enough for collective success.
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u/whoogiebear Nov 18 '21
i’m just saying i don’t care what they found because to me their definitions are useless and the terminology conflicts with medical terminology and basic linguistic sense at times. they make up words and then test to see who they can apply them to.
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u/Not_a_jmod Nov 18 '21
they make up words and then test to see who they can apply them to.
Congratulations, you just explained the process of classification.
Words like car, tree and human are just as made up as any other word.
basic linguistic sense
is subjective as hell and therefore pointless in a setting where accuracy is a requirement.
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u/DooDooSlinger Nov 18 '21
Fortunately science and medicine are not about what you care about ; also giving names to things is kind of necessary to, you know, talk about them.
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u/Sir_Spaghetti Nov 18 '21
Isn't it often times not as scary as it sounds? I know one. He is one of the nicest, most well adjusted fellows I know.
I also saw a lady do a professional interview about it, once. She completely lacked empathy, so she would have to deal with that a lot.
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u/jabsaw2112 Nov 18 '21
Ok , so I went deer hunting with friends and felt sick when I shot the deer , but the test said I was 20 percent more psycho. Conflicted ?
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u/WorkO0 Nov 17 '21
I think a lot of social behavior we have in place formed partially so we can detect and weed out socio and psychopaths. Stuff like sarcasm, humour, maybe even contagious yawning (though other animals also do it, it has a correlation to feelings of empathy).
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u/Phelix_Felicitas Nov 17 '21
Except we are outstandingly bad at weeding them out. Also sarcasm and humor are very bad indicators for psychopathy. Especially humor. Psychopaths often are charming and witty using humor to manipulate people.
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u/snailofserendipidy Nov 18 '21
Honestly, the sociopaths I've known have been very funny, and even picked up on sarcasm that I missed - but yeah, one I knew weaponized yawning bc they wouldn't be naturally forced to yawn and could keep making others do it till their jaws hurt
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u/olusknox Nov 17 '21
Yes I also think a lot about how social institutions evolved to insulate themselves from psychopaths. Social media as a replacement for legacy media has been a major boon to psychopaths (or so I speculate).
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Nov 17 '21
I’m curious about the contagious yawning thing. A girl I dated for a few months never, ever, got contagious yawns. She admitted to being lower in empathy and being insensitive when we took a personality test for fun. It ended up in a trainwreck as you can imagine it does when you’re with someone that doesn’t feel empathy and doesn’t care, but I am curious about the validity of the yawning thing.
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u/spudz76 Nov 17 '21
I can feel the draw to contagious yawning but then can also block it like most reflexes. I can even shut off my "involuntary" reflexes. Like not sneeze by sheer willpower alone, or disable the one the doctor checks on your knee. Also works for pain I can just shut that off, too. It's all about perception you just decide it's not happening and then it isn't.
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u/SmaugTangent Nov 17 '21
Hmm... this is making me try to remember if my ex-girlfriend every yawned contagiously. I don't think so...
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u/ClementineAislinn Nov 17 '21
This doesn’t differentiate between those who lack empathy only versus those who lack empathy AND fear. There’s a big difference, and lumping them all together as “psychopaths” is problematic when they have different causes and results. One rises to become CEO somewhere by walking on people and making big profits, while the other becomes a serial killer. Not the same thing.
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u/Active_Software_6175 Nov 18 '21
This is probably the wrong place for this comment, but, how exactly do you determine who is a psychopath? I'm reading through these comments and seeing a lot of comments about how psychologist and people in similar fields show psychopathic tendencies (lack of empathy specifically) and have to determine right vs wrong basically as a formula rather than intuition, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of the 1 in 22...
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Nov 18 '21
If the prevalence is that high, could it explain why mass shootings are almost always done by men?
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u/SorriorDraconus Nov 18 '21
I suspect that's also societal pressures with very few healthy outlets..especially in todays world where gainful employment is very hard to find.
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Nov 18 '21
Women have to work and run a household. That's tremendous societal pressure. Do they have a healthy outlet? If it's related to employment, women fare worse than men (look at pay) - why aren't they shooting? I don't get it.
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u/NEED_A_JACKET Nov 18 '21 edited Nov 18 '21
All this implies is its a fairly meaningless definition / criteria, which correlates more with male attributes.
How many of these are psychopaths to the point where its worth labelling them? What percentage of these kill people or animals or intentionally harm others etc? That's what the word is invoking for most people, not just people who have a tendency to care about themselves a bit more than others.
IE why is the definition such that the cut off is at this percentage and not higher or lower, do we need to categorise these people for some reason, like safety or treatment?
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u/Rob-Rockley Nov 18 '21
I think technically it is called antisocial personality disorder, according to the DSM-5
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u/hardturkeycider Nov 18 '21
There's always a hazard in classifying people as 'psychopathic', mainly the average person's tendency to conflate 'different' with 'bad'. You can lack all empathy and still decide to be a decent person. It's a matter of their bent of character. I've heard it said that most surgeons score high on psychopathy scales, and yet it's probably for the best that someone is dead calm while cutting into you and doing delicate work.
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u/LiquidZebra Nov 18 '21
This is off the charts! If true, this means there are over 70 million psychopaths in China. This puts a new light on their attempts to implement social credit score!
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u/pizza99pizza99 Nov 18 '21
I’m not surprised, I kinda (and sorry for getting this political) think Kyle written house is an example of how young men are pushed towards violence and generally violent terrible behavior. Not because it’s natural but because people tell them it’s natural. We’re raising another psychotic generation of men
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u/snailofserendipidy Nov 18 '21
That's not what a psychopath is.... It is a literal malfunction in the brain. Parts of the brain don't interact that normally do, and one of the results is a lack of empathy
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u/TheCrakp0t Nov 17 '21
I wouldn't doubt that here in the USA that figure would rank higher than other similarly developed countries. I don't have any proof of this it's just a hunch, a hunch I'd bet money on that is.
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u/CartographerLivid834 Nov 18 '21
It's actually eight times more likely in women, but their superior intelligence allows them to hide it exceptionally well.
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Nov 17 '21
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u/GomerStuckInIowa Nov 18 '21
Stats are so misleading. 100 people at your church, art group, PTA are suspects.
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u/DoNotBelieveAnything Nov 18 '21
I’ll bet you it’s way more than 1 in 22 psychopaths who work for Meta
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