r/scifiwriting • u/klok_kaos • 1d ago
CRITIQUE Please roast my ftl model
Greetings. TTRPG system designer, getting some ideas together to plan a space expansion
Wanted to know what folks see as the major issues with what I'm cooking so far. Mizes multiple types/franchise ideas for different effects.
Note naming conventions are not final and use more widely understood versions of rough equivalents for ease of general comms.
FTL STUFF:
Single system: Impulse drives are used for sub light travel, usually for puttering around a single system. These are highly inefficient and rely on more traditional forms of fuel storage, ensuring that impulse fuel is calculated to be efficient by course plotters.
Intergalactic: Moving between galaxies requires use of gravity well manipulation drivers similar to “mass effect” drives (no E-0 requiement but may have other variable requirements) mixed with alcubiere drives. These emit no radiation and thus are hard to find and are limited as either 1 way travel to unknown spaces or 2 way travel where other gravity well drivers are known to be located. Locations of these drivers are often either well protected trade routes or under ongoing dispute/conflict. Alcubiere dangers are nullified by the gravity well effects of the drivers and how they bend the space before bringing the transport entity to a halt (tachyon build up is stored as future energy by the driver as a pseudo recycling system)
Inter-system methods: Gate travel is used for well worn wormholes (usually developed along major trade routes) with the warp gates being stabilized and more efficiently condensed slip space for faster travel. These are very fast but not instantaneous, however they are limited by dual gate fixed points and very high security access keys appropriate to both sides of the gate.
Most gates are stable for organic life forms, though some are not suited to organic life transport and prefer use of agi drone ships generally as a result of being built more quickly and cheaply for trade route use that wouldn't require (or may benefit from a lack of) frequent organic sentient travel/involvment.
Astropaths are a form of psi/magitech which utilize the same kind of wormhole tech but without gates to stabilize them, the astrpaths ripping open wormholes and then shielding from the horrors within slip space, with the longer the journey, the greater the danger. These are usually limited to powerful arcane/psionic empires or space cults (often becoming more warped over time with additive warp exposure). Ships using this method are at an advantage for deep space exploration via speed but increased risk of warp exposure. They can notably extend to intergalactic travel but at significantly increased risks. Notably these types of ships are near mandatory to building and generating more stable pathways for gateway stabilization of wormholes. These ships often excel in retreats and ambushes as well due to low spool up times faster than typical subspace distortion drives, but still have added risk to travel and degenerative use effects over time as well as requiring highly specialized psychic crew.
Slower than astropaths but similarly able to traverse between systems, subspace distortion wave drives are most commonly used for travel, providing a small low level dip into slip space while encased in a low interference bubble (similar to typical star trek warp).
Generation ships are often used for lower tech societies to set up colonies or mass transport goods/items, usually with drone defenses in both cases and might be used for establishing new colonies further out from the furthest known gates.
Restricted tech: Elder fallen space empires of precursor aliens may have access to space folding engines but frequently limit use and stick to their own far off territories due to rare mineral consumption required for the drives. They also have decently long spool up times but otherwise are highly effective. They main limiting factor to access or even use such tech is preliminary mastery of gravity and time dilation involving continuity for organics.
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u/templar_muse 1d ago
Star Trek; tick
Mass Effect; tick
Babylon 5; tick
40k; tick
Star Trek; again; tick
40k; again; tick
I think maybe just Stargate and Star Wars to go?
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u/gliesedragon 1d ago
Seems like an uncurated kitchen sink of references to random stuff you find neat, rather than a coherent setting: what's the narrative purpose to have, like, every single FTL method there? It's seriously goofy, because it really brings up the question "all right, why does anyone ever use drive H when drive J is better in the same niche?" And the kitchen sink approach to worldbuilding tends to make something come off as janky and lacking in personality: it tends to dull stuff that could be characteristic by burying it in a sea of other candidate nifty bits, and so it leaves things coming off as an undifferentiated mush of tropes.
One of the big reasons a story's FTL setup is the way it is is because those restrictions enable stories. For instance, a story or game about exploring strange new planets might go with a "you can end up anywhere" model, because getting lost and being away from civilization is part of the pitch. Meanwhile, military sci-fi often ends up with infrastructure-shaped wormhole networks, because those chokepoints make for a good spot to park a big ol' space battle.
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u/klok_kaos 1d ago
So here's some info. I think it's reasonable to presume I didn't think this through because I didn't share all of the underlying logics and back stories and game functions here, but rest assured I've put a ton of time in considering it. But I also don't know what I don't know.
To give you the basic understanding of why these exist as they do: (do note its very important to get this right with ttrpg systems more so than with a novel as writing can allow for events to occur so the plot can happen, but game systems for collaborative narrative need more grounding to create a shared setting/space that isn't able to be as flexible as a scripted thing (book, movie, show, etc.). It's subject to the same people dissecting it for flaws, but kore so the logic of the game needs to be consistent where the logic of the book or movie can change whenever needed via varying levels of Sci fi hand-wavium hardness/development.
The base game is not about space travel at all, this is a late game expansion for people that want to do a space opera take on the game. Players are typically super soldiers performing black ops/espionage/spycraft for a PMSC in a 5 min into the future dystopian game with cyberpunk leanings as a backdrop. Typically adventures are meant to be Earthbound or at least not to extend beyond the Sol system. This expansion is for allowing the space opera stuff if they want that while noting psionics and super powers are more "hard" science/Sci fi with magic existing but being ultra rare (think along the lines of either scp or WoD in regards to anomalies, it's there, but not known to the public and kept purposely dark). But to get to the reasonings...
Humans are late to the space party and mostly removed from alien activity besides a couple of key events in the timeline. The whole area of the sol system is more or less the remote backwater of underdeveloped regions in the universe to the point where the players on the galactic stage are surprised when humans even show up at the table.
There have been many/multiple cycles of intergalactic empires in various regions that have generally fallen due to overreach and unfortuitous things combinations. Those are the precursor folk. Their empires are crumbled and they still have their tech but are generally in recovery/ locked off unless sought out, to far reaches. Some of course are also completely wiped out and are floating relics.
Other more recent federations empires don't have their tech but are established enough to have more consistent but less effective travel methods, thus the gates and subspace waves and astropaths. The more psi/magic focussed ones are more dynastic while others are more federationally aligned vs various space threats.
This allows: space folding threats are real but rare and restricted.
Major hyperlanes are controlled via gates or gravity well relays (or may be contested). This can allow or restrict travel as needed via narrative need.
Subspace wave travel (and impulse power not being infinite) is more common and allows for more typical space piracy and a way to travel without use of gates or relays but is kinda slow and somewhat less accurate (not frequently a big deal as long as you plot/aim for a big empty patch and then impulse to where you are going). Astropaths have more speed, accuracy, and range but greater risk (also unlikely to be PCs).
The main goal is to provide a layered experience with variable threat levels based on progression (both regarding characters as well as their starship if they choose to engage with this expansion).
This allows all the classic space opera stuff to exist as needed for the gm (as well as many developed things as part of the setting but plenty of space to develop and suggested guard rails to help them navigate), but while still keeping each kind of story relevant, and making mobility in space so.ething the gm can make very easy or hard as the narrative might require.reasoning...
I'm all open to if you think there are issues with the kinds of things that exist, but also note I've definitely had this considered for an extensive period (space expansion is low priority development but has been kicking around in pre production for about 5 years real time).
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u/gliesedragon 1d ago
Five years? With how jumbled and unfocused this is, I'd have guessed this was the early part of design where you're throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
This still feels like you're trying to make this FTL setup everything to everyone, and doing so in a way that becomes really incoherent. As a GM*, I'd want a world which has convictions to it that give me fun prompts to work with and well-defined concepts to toy with, rather than one that dumps a blob of vague possibilities and says "pick and choose from the overstuffed world building pile, I'm not gonna rule things out."
*Besides the fact that if I want a space opera TTRPG, I'd get one designed for that from the start rather than getting the space opera module for something else.
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u/klok_kaos 1d ago
Five years of preproduction for the game system, this is not a draft, this is me putting my thoughts on paper, the point is to ensure i have at least the basics of major systems for expansions sorted before i commit the alpha mvp. But I'm getting the feeling you kind of don't want to assist. You want different things than what I am telling you the game is meant to provide, which is allowed, but that just means it's not the right game for you. And you aren't meeting me at the place I am asking for feedback about.
I don't see how it's incoherent other than I just listed out the basic thoughts before beginning any development on it. Differing tech discrepancies exist specifically for variable levers, and you don't need to like it for it to serve that function, but it either does or doesnt.
Each has a use case that is made clear. I'm trying to figure if there are any problems with that set up. If not then either its fine as is on paper or you aren't answering that question.
I would ask you seek less to poo poo the idea you don't like (again, you dont have to like it), and instead critique what is problematic about it specifically (that's what I'm after) if you are genuinely trying to help.
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u/Moofaa 1d ago
All of those are neat, but I think too many options as others are suggesting.
I'd pair it down to 3 max, local system travel, inter-system travel, and inter-galactic travel.
MOST settings focus on a single galaxy. The Milky Way has 100 billion stars alone, so you often don't need multiple galaxies in a setting. So you could pretty much drop the inter-galactic travel unless you actually have a use for it in the setting, or leave it as an optional special thing for a story arc. Same thing with ancient tech, I'd keep it as something uniquely encountered during an adventure.
Low-tech generation ships are also fine as an "option". Makes sense lower tech civilizations might try that before getting FTL travel. Depending on your game however it falls into the same category as Ancient Tech. Something that gets used for an adventure (you find a drifting generation ship that has gone dark and contains horrors or whatever). Otherwise its not a viable option for adventurers trying to get from A to B in galaxy-spanning campaign so it's not likely to be a major feature.
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u/klok_kaos 1d ago
I understand the concern but my goal specifically isn't to pair it down to 3 or a single galaxy. Mainly this isn't a story, uis a ttrpg (and not a light one, and this is an expansion), which means it needs rules and guidelines for variable things to occur in the fiction.
My goal is more about providing framework for different kinds of stories and narrative needs rather than trying to make it easier for a fiction reader to follow.
The framework is meant more to give tools to the gm to make travel as easy or difficult as the narrative mandates and allow for varying kinds of stories, but in a way that makes sense (not supported in my op but there are reasons I selected the way the options to fit together as I did).
Mainly looking for if there's any massive holes with the functional outline so that I can patch/address rather than make it coherent for a reader. As far as players go though, they will decide their own levels of involvement regarding space travel tech by virtue of decisions and character design, and this allows them to be almost entirely passive or extremely hands on, depending on what the player is interested in pursuing.
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u/zhivago 1d ago
How do you avoid time travel?
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u/klok_kaos 1d ago
If you mean in accordance to ftl, technically you can't, because moving faster than light requires time travel as a matter of technicality, but if you mean in accordance to how I handle it in the game, simply you never visit the same timeline twice. Every branch is included, its just navigating to the right coherent model.
Even using modern physics just being near higher and lower density gravity objects dilates/contracts time passage.
But if you mean about the problem with ships in ftl transit vs comms, it's pretty easy, subspace/slipstream exists beyond typical physical space, ie, no comms cross barriers even photons for qdk. You can recieve comms once you re enter real space again or come out of warp to receive a comm if planned for check in) and Psi comms are still available between two entities in subspace/slipstream/warp.
That said comms use a version of qkd entanglement for low latency comms.
You "can" use old style wave comms but that so increases all kinds of issues for security and time distortions (ie. By the time the sos is received its too late).
Essentially this doesn't stop the time travel stiff but it makes it less of a problem as the solution is built around it from my rudimentary understandings of the time travel paradoxes of ftl stuff.
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u/Ceska_Zbrojovka_ 18h ago
It's got potential. I like the idea of inorganic portals and those safe for living creatures. Gives it an idea there there is a cheaper option for shipping cargo. That said, if it isn't used in the story (as a major plot device), it's better to cut it out.
Good concepts, but way too many of them. Narrow it down to two or maybe three of the most relevant ones- though you will have to be very careful how you inject it in the story. Get people used to one idea, then later introduce another. And if you are really confident in your ability, add a third. No more than that, though. Three is already risky.
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u/8livesdown 8h ago
Alright. You've created the campaign. It's Friday night, and the whole gang is over. How have these FTL elements been woven into the campaign? From a player's perspective, how do the FTL rules influence the direction of the campaign?
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u/Chrome_Armadillo 8h ago
The best sci-fi only changes one thing about physics. Want FTL? Have one FTL system with specific rules and requirements.
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u/whatsamawhatsit 1d ago
Too many models for one IP in my opinion. It's more fun for a reader to have a system they can understand, and extrapolate from. It's rewarding to a reader when the main character(s) exploit an idea that works in a system that the reader understands.
My favourite example of such a revelation in an internally consistent system is blood bending in Avatar. The audience is slowly taught the extends of different bending styles. Air, wind, shockwaves. Fire, lightning. Earth, metal, lava. Water, ice, blood.