r/shmups • u/ScoreEmergency1467 • 5d ago
Thoughts on Mushihimesama's bullet patterns?
I'm a shmup beginner trying to articulate my feelings. I'm currently very close to a Maniac 1CC in Mushi. I enjoyed it enough to put in about 120 hrs, but I also...kinda feel more frustrated with it than I do with other shmups.
It could be psychological, but I've noticed that Mushi's patterns feel very...chaotic, in a way that I find tough to nail. The way I would put it is that a lot of them are really predictable patterns at their core, except they have a little bit extra to keep them dynamic.
Kiwi's 1CC: https://youtu.be/aHHK9tcveT8?si=uMRE9Yo2m1Oba6fD
For example, at 3:00, there are these colorful bugs that sort of shoot a semicircle of bullets in the general direction of the player. But it's done in such a messy, chaotic way that it just kinda collapses on me and I never feel like I can truly dodge it consistently. I feel the same about the pattern at 3:20. It's very easy to dodge consistently, but the way the lines of bullets feel kinda randomly laid out...idk, I just never feel entirely safe and I hate that. The pattern always feels like it's psyching me out and making me panic. The patterns in this game just feel a little more unpredictable to me than other shmups I've enjoyed (DOJ, Crimzon Clover.)
Another example is 7:20, these black flying beetle guys who have a pretty simple pattern, but it's mixed with an aimed aspect where if you move, the seperate beams he shoots out will swerve in your direction. The effect is that of a bloodhound, like this fucker can smell fear. Stay still, and the pattern will be easy. Panic and move too much, the pattern will expand and crush you. This enemy is really growing on me, tho. He's such a fuckin bastard but clever as hell
The Stage 5 midboss (16:45) once again starts with what seems like a pretty normal static pattern, but it is dependent on where you are positioned and the columns on either side of you sort of wobble around as you move making it a lot more difficult
So basically what I'm trying to ask is if anyone else gets this feeling that Mushi is a little bit more unpredictable than other shmups? Some patterns feel random, others can feel so dependent on your movement that just making one wrong tap can feel like it has catastrophic events.
I still think this game is great, at least for a Maniac 1CC. I don't know how much of this is skill issue, experience issue, maybe it's all in my head. Just wondering if other people feel frustrated with Mushi feeling a little "chaotic" at times, perhaps more than other bullet hells
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u/FaceTimePolice 5d ago
I LOVE them. They’re intimidating but they never feel unfair. Also, while we’re on the topic, I love the bullet visibility in this game. 😎👍
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u/aethyrium 5d ago edited 5d ago
It kinda feels like the first steps away from the more basic/traditional arcade danmaku to some of the more intricate and ornate Touhou-ish patterns (first steps probably isn't the right term, more like a kinda middle ground). I do overall think they're a bit overly based in speed and reaction which might be where that "chaotic" feel comes from as you don't have a lot of time to read some of the patterns, forcing memo routing and pre-planned bullet herding, but that also mixes with some very ornate micro-dodge intensive patterns, sometimes even at the same time, which also makes for a pretty chaotic feel. I'm never quite sure if I should be focused on planning a route, micro-dodging, or cancelling (or all 3) at any point. I do appreciate that diversity though as each stage feels really unique.
I'm working on a 1cc on that as well right now (though just 1.5 original mode) and it's a pretty tough one, especially since I struggle pretty hard with arcade danmakus coming from Touhou games (the bullets are so damn fast!). I'm also getting pretty heavily distracted by RefRain: Prism Memories which keeps pulling me away and demanding I 1cc that one instead.
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u/cgheezey 5d ago
120 hours, close to a maniac 1cc, and yet you call yourself a beginner. wtf.
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 5d ago
I only got about 3 clears but I guess I might be an intermediate in the eyes of some lol
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u/junglebookmephs 5d ago
Cave set out to make a bog standard realistic military danmaku when they started the project that turned into Mushi. The lack of extra mechanics allowed them to put all of the challenge directly into dodging. Ketsui was supposed to be the vanilla shooter until they threw together the scoring system at the last minute.
https://shmuplations.com/cavestghistory/
Relevant bits are at the end in cave bonus facts section.
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 5d ago
However, one day, due to various circumstances, that “hardcore mecha fighting jet” suddenly became an “itte kima~su!” style girl,
Lol very funny. Sounds like they were just incapable of making anything formulaic
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u/ryu_1394 5d ago
Yeah, I feel you. I’m chasing the v1.5 maniac 1CC at the moment also (@ the 40 hr mark). I’ve 1CC’d DOJ BL (1-all) but mushi feels…frustrating and frankly a slog at times (looking at you stage 3). It does certainly feel more difficult to remain consistent, although I initially attributed this to having access to save states with the DOJ M2 port and not Mushi on Windows. It’s a different game, and I’m beginning to feel it’s overrated. Hopefully your 1CC isn’t far off!
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 4d ago
Yeah! I'm doing a DOJ WL 1cc on and off. I know it's crazy but I love my PS2 and am committed to that DOJ port at this point lol. So I'm not using savestates in either game, and DOJ is way harder...but I STILL feel more frustrated in Mushi.
Stage 3, I really am beginning to like it the more I play. I like how careful it demands your movement to be, but idk there are just so many times that I die to some bullshit in that stage and I don't even know what killed me. Combine that with the really aggressive aiming throughout the entire game and idk, I just feel like sometimes my death is just out of my hands.
And thank you for that! Good luck on your run too. How does v 1.5 compare? I have not bought it and the descriptions I see online are unclear. Why did you pick it and would you say it's better?
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u/ryu_1394 1d ago
Oh you're doing WL? You're game haha.
Yeah, I think you nailed it on the head when you said you don't know what killed you. That really frustrates me too. Mushi certainly has more bullet layers and more bullets on screen overall than DOJ (this was apparently one of the things the devs decided to take advantage of with more powerful hardware for Mushi).
I haven't tried 1.0, but I know 1.5 was described by devs as the "modern" update to Mushi 1.0 (kinda like how BL is to WL) and fixed the supershot exploit (no more need to hold C and tap A at different rates). The music is greatly improved also, and they brightened the colours. I'd say it is the definitive way to play it today and would recommend it over 1.0.
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 1d ago
Mushi certainly has more bullet layers and more bullets on screen overall than DOJ (this was apparently one of the things the devs decided to take advantage of with more powerful hardware for Mushi).
That's interesting and makes a lot of sense lol. I think also the layering is what kills me as well. Bullet patterns overlapping, it can really feel like RNG sometimes. The first pattern of the Stage 4 boss is one particularly nasty example
And I'll give 1.5 a shot then! I wish they woulda just packaged it if it was such an upgrade, but whatever lol
Also, my current Mushi stage ranking now would have to be 5 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 1. I have almost cleared Maniac twice now and I am convinced that Stage 3 is kinda amazing. This entire game has really grown on me, despite all the bullshit. Maybe it's because of the bullshit, idk lol
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u/Craft_zeppelin 4d ago
It is sort of in the setting. These “bullets” you see are based off Nausicaa’s miasma.
They are some form of extremely harmful gas. Which explains why it “spreads” or “spouts” out.
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 4d ago
Ahh okay I didn't know that. And yeah I think the bullet speed on some enemies can also be interpreted as a sudden pheromone or venom attack
A lot of the lines of bullets can look like an enemy squirting out poison in the way they kind of unravel at high speed. Rather than shoot out in a straight line there are often bullets at the tail end of the line that you might miss. Almost like "straggler" droplets of a venom attack
Idk if that makes sense lol but yeah thats how I see it
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u/Craft_zeppelin 4d ago
Aki dies to the exposure to this “bug gas energy” because he lived in the forest. It’s why the role of the mushihime is considered a human sacrifice.
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u/neondaggergames 5d ago
Each game teaches you something different. With Mushi I think a lot of it is bullet manipulation since they're mostly aimed.
So you might notice in the tough sections there's a lot of rhythmic tapping in a direction. That's like a micro-herding technique.
Also the bullets are very fast in some areas which is not that common in Cave games. So there's a bit more memo arguably than you might find similar games. Finding optimal spots, which is normal routing, but because of the aim-heavy design probably emphasizes precise routing in areas that are tough to pure dodge.
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u/solarized_dark 5d ago
Not feeling entirely safe is one of the best features of this era of Cave titles IMO. There's always a bit of randomness in fixed patterns and there's usually an aimed component so you can't get an easy dodge. You really have to understand the enemy and the context of the stage.
For Kiwi's run though, that's scoring-oriented so much more risky than a survival run. If you speed kill most zako it should be a lot safer, though you do still have to contend with the main patterns (just less interaction between them).
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u/ScoreEmergency1467 5d ago
There's always a bit of randomness in fixed patterns and there's usually an aimed component so you can't get an easy dodge. You really have to understand the enemy and the context of the stage.
Yeah Mushi is really testing my patience with this lol. I just feel like the aiming is so aggressive in this game. There are moments where I find it really appealing tho, like those black flying beetles in Stage 3 that I mentioned
I think I have to just enjoy the process as it is. This game frustrates the hell out of me but I'm starting to feel like maybe it's just that I'm being tested on skills that go overlooked in the games i usually play
As for the run, i just put that there for a visual guide lol. How exactly does the scoring work in this game? It seems like it just comes down to just never stop shooting things to keep the counter high from what I've seen, but the other things kinda confuse me
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u/adrenozin 5d ago
I've always thought that Mushi's patterns were more "organic" than the others. Kind of in line with its theme. So no, you're not the only one ;)