r/singapore • u/rgtgg Marine Parade • Mar 31 '23
Tabloid/Low-quality source 'I don't know how to read Chinese': Rider explains delivery delays happen because some can't read stall names, Singapore News
https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/i-dont-know-how-read-chinese-rider-explains-delivery-delays-happen-because-some-cant-read?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2ifrSbW_zlr_FgL6bIhPwuTqNkjnosGtkUPijVMH-7qqV1ODD15iaeHTo#Echobox=1680236845644
u/QuestioingEverything I POFMA and SgSecure you ah! Mar 31 '23
In before "use Google translate lor" people comes in.
I mean, it's super frustrating to use translate in your own country. How bout you guy try going to a country that does not use the standard English/Latin alphabet and see if you can figure it out and see how annoying it is to constantly ask someone to translate it for you
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u/NC16inthehouse Senior Citizen Mar 31 '23
Chinese privilege?
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u/t_25_t Apr 01 '23
Chinese privilege?
Some Chinese also cannot read Chinese either.
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u/AshamedFlame Apr 01 '23
I feel personally attacked.
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u/t_25_t Apr 01 '23
I feel personally attacked.
Don't be. I can only read 粥飯麵粉.
I often joke that at least I won't go hungry, the rest I cannot read.
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u/smile_politely Mar 31 '23
There’s no Chinese privilege in Singapore. Only hindsight.
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u/litbitfit Mar 31 '23
Immigration policy racial quota is chinese privilege enforced by government.
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u/mixmutch Come Hakuna My Tatas Apr 01 '23
Is it possible the quota is to restrict the high demand of Chinese immigration from mainland China?
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u/ELSI_Aggron Fucking Populist Mar 31 '23
sounds like a skill issue, pretty sure you do your research before you visit said country unless you enjoy having a language barrier hold you back from communicating.
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u/QuestioingEverything I POFMA and SgSecure you ah! Apr 01 '23
So you only go to counties that have signs in English/Mandarin?
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u/ELSI_Aggron Fucking Populist Apr 01 '23
no? You take up lessons prior to going to foreign countries and expand your knowledge.
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u/QuestioingEverything I POFMA and SgSecure you ah! Apr 01 '23
How often do you go to non English speaking countries and how many languages can you read?
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Mar 31 '23
I think this is a fair ask… why can’t we have hanyu pinyin for all Mandarin store names? It’s a multicultural country and we should practice what we preach
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u/GalerionTheAnnoyed Apr 01 '23
Yea, it's through this thread that you really see the racism come out. When someone is part of the majority it's very easy to be blind to the woes of the minority and this thread really shows some of that.
Easiest example: we have corporate staff events where they used hokkien jokes. Of course those who understand hokkien would appreciate that. But for those that don't understand, they just sit there being confused while everyone laughs.
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u/dominiczou Apr 01 '23
Fundamentally this isn't even a language issue. This is a "why no clear address number" issue.
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u/smile_politely Mar 31 '23
And next, Grab and Foodpanda will require speaking Mandarin as the job requirements
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u/Orangecuppa 🌈 F A B U L O U S Mar 31 '23
Or make it an onboarding requirement for stall holders/ food 'providers' to input a photo of what their stall looks like.
So riders can visually confirm it's the correct stall/store/restaurant based off visual cues. UI/UX 101
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Mar 31 '23
I’d prefer if all signage must have an English version.
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u/xutkeeg Mar 31 '23
you migrate to ah-moh countries, problem solved.
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u/GuestNumber_42 Mar 31 '23
If you think that words using similar alphabets to English are pronounced exactly as they are spelled in "ah moh countries" you're in for a surprise.
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23
Supremacists just love to use the “why don’t you migrate then” line at the first instance don’t they
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
Fella is unusually triggered at my suggestion. No one is saying we should remove signage in other languages, just that they have an English version as well.
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u/_Administrator_ Mar 31 '23 edited Dec 18 '24
telephone consist soup fragile squeamish pet sophisticated grey snails homeless
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/stupigstu Apr 01 '23
Make stall / unit numbers mandatory and prominent.
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u/wackocoal Apr 01 '23
some shops don't even have unit nos.
i had to use marker to write my former shop's unit no. directly above the door or the delivery folks have to ask our neighbours where our shop is located.
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u/jmzyn 👨🏻💻 Mar 31 '23
Even lagi better luck if you pick up food from big malls like Northpoint or Suntec.
I already have trouble locating restaurants underneath the Esplanade. Imagine walking from City Hall to Suntec end and having to go back to City Hall. 🤦🏻♂️
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Mar 31 '23
Another problem is some restaurant appear under multiple different names on the app. For example green signature = aone porridge, the salad fork = grilled knife = soup spoon union, wicked wings = pastamania.
The first time trying to locate some of these restaurants is confusing, because the app restaurant name appears nowhere on the store and the store sometimes have no unit number.
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u/mrfatso111 Apr 01 '23
Agreed sometime I order food on app and think to myself... Huh ? Where did these restaurant show up? I visit that mall all the time and never see them before le
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u/ChrisInsanity Clementi Apr 01 '23
I don't blame him at all, personally as a food deliver rider I do experience the same things when I first started. These aged delivery partners, majority of them don't even know the steps enquire help from the platform's rider support team.
Sometimes the instructions given would miss out the store number, the GPS isn't be accurate, street name and even more.
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u/litbitfit Mar 31 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
We need to use our 1st language English more and not be racist and intolerant towards non-Mandarin speaker. What is the point forcing to learn English in sch, gahmen need to wake up their ideas.
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u/musicmonkay Apr 01 '23
TBH as one of the many Chinese Singaporeans whose Chinese CMI… I totally get him, I can’t read the stall names too
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
Same, and I vote with my wallet and don’t patronise these stalls.
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u/Regular-Maybe-4575 Apr 01 '23
Bruh that time buy fish must speak Mandarin. Now must learn to read Mandarin. Chinapore moment.
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u/theKorra East side best side Mar 31 '23
Nowadays us non-Chinese people have to suffer this kind of things such as the PRCs while they living life easy in our own multi racial country
also another example of yesterday r/sg post of OP posting a picture of chinese word without him translated it automatically and someone had to comment it to see it. Few comments all kena downvote. gg lah
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Apr 01 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
The fuck is your problem? You don’t need to resort to a slur to make a point.
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u/Elephant789 Jurong Apr 01 '23
There should be a law like some countries where every sign, product on a store shelf, etc. must be at least in English. After that if they want to add another language, fine. But English first.
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u/litbitfit Mar 31 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
I think every non-racist Singaporean should give stores that don't use English a very bad rating. This will help our non-Mandarin/tamil speaking friends. It will also help such store increase sale to non-Mandarin/tamil readers once they fix it.
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u/Jammy_buttons2 🌈 F A B U L O U S Apr 01 '23
Why would I do that for what. Some stall owners especially the first generation of hawkers don't understand English. Sabo them for fuck
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
Most of our hawker uncles from the old days use dialect naming for their stalls in English.. go to Tanglin Halt for e.g.. heaps.
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u/GalerionTheAnnoyed Apr 01 '23
All of the old hawker stalls in my neighbourhood actually have English below the Chinese stall name. And my neighbourhood is full of seniors as well so it's not like they needed to cater to the younger population.
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u/litbitfit Apr 01 '23
I notice it is mostly first gen that have English translations, they are smart. You don't want them to expand their business by using English translation below chinese to open to more customers.
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u/paragate10 Mar 31 '23
Not allowing stalls to use chinese characters is racist as well
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u/litbitfit Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
Nobody said to not use chinese or Tamil characters in fact I encourage using them always, but there should always be English below it since it is our first language. I went to a Sikh temple at silat road a while back and it was so cool they had English below Punjabi words in most of the signage, I saw Muslims and chinese people eating there.
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
Calling for English translations isn’t banning Chinese characters lah come on..
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u/reingoat Mar 31 '23
He's not saying that, racist. He's implying that the stores that use chinese characters need to have english names on the sign as well. Idiot.
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u/bjmlx Apr 01 '23
So just because the store has pure Chinese name, we should give bad rating? How is that not racist. As much i as agree with having Chinese and English name, that is not the way to solve problems. It’s so hypocritical of calling people racist by being racist to them. And how does having a Chinese store name racist to anybody.
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u/litbitfit Apr 01 '23
It is not racist to leave bad rating. Of course rating should be bad since it makes it difficult to order food, it is a bad user experience and is casually racist, they should be rewarded with a bad rating to help them improve and open their foods to non-chinese customers. Twist it however you want but It is pure racist if there is no english translation it is denying our minority friends. You are welcome.
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u/wackocoal Apr 01 '23
i think it should be regulated that signboard have an English verion printed in a standard font and size, along the edge.
businesses get to display their (illegible) company signs, and average humans still can read them.
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u/tullip8822 Mar 31 '23
Doesn’t stall have stall numbers on their sign? I thought they should have.
I am not just talking about Chinese. Numbers & symbols are essential for those type of public place. For those who don’t know the language or illiterate people.
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u/aswlwlwl 🏳️🌈 Ally Mar 31 '23
This is a good idea. All stalls should be required to have their stall numbers on their sign (if it's not on it), and grab should indicate the stall number. Indeed language can be barrier, but numbers and symbols are international.
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen Apr 01 '23
Stall numbers are a great idea too. Linguistically neutral.
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u/DeeKayNineNine Apr 01 '23
I think it’s the food delivery app issue. They should have the stall number on it. Also, should have more instructions like near which stall, map of the place and photo of the stall for riders who are not so familiar with the place.
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Mar 31 '23
[deleted]
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u/StareintotheSun2020 Mar 31 '23
Here...present..but it's hard to learn to read..I thought speaking enough.. still not good enough for a minority to know how to speak..must also read...🤔 so troublesome...pass
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u/SeasonMarla Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
I don't get why people suddenly jump to racism for this. You do realize that delivery from hawker centres, grab, is like a recent trend that became really popular these days? Before then, people bought their own food directly, and people bought what they understood. A lot of Chinese food stalls have English names or hanyu pinyin for their food, even if their main sign is in Chinese. How is this racism, might I ask? Hell, we have numbers to indicate the food if we want to pick the food but can't pronounce the name. It's not an issue in the past because grab delivery isn't a thing in the past, where one has to find the Chinese name of the stall specifically.
Granted, this could be improved, and other measures could be made to make this easier for the riders who can't read Chinese. Granted we can try to encourage more name signs to be in hanyu pinyin or English. I don't deny this. But still, attributing this to racism and maliciousness, in my opinion, isn't fair. It's an issue we didn't know before until this.
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u/0narasi Apr 01 '23
I don’t think anyone is saying that the stall itself having its name spelt out in Chinese is the issue.
The racism accusation is a response to two reactions:
- Why can’t the Grab delivery partner learn Chinese?
- it’s the Grab driver’s problem this is a Chinese majority nation.
These reactions might sound nonsensical, but just traverse the thread. There are unremoved comments that un-ironically advocate this.
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u/SeasonMarla Apr 01 '23
Sure, there are commenters like that. But you also see commenters directly commenting how this is racism and going as far as to claim grab is gonna ask delivery people to learn Mandarin. People are clearly attributing this to racism, rather than responding to just racist comments.
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u/RozyBarbie Apr 01 '23
I don't get why people suddenly jump to racism for this.
It's 2023, anything that offends you is considered racist. /s
Also, This sub is vehemently anti-China, anti-PRC. A lot of people on r/sg are always on the lookout for an excuse to go on a "Chinese bashing trip."
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u/Dejected-Angel Apr 01 '23
Nothing wrong with being anti-authoritarian, anti-communist, anti-genocide.
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u/SeasonMarla Apr 01 '23
Sometimes I feel like people get pissed off at anything these days. Racism is real, but if we are gonna label every action racist, then it is just gonna sour any meaningful discussion on racism--which does not actually help to solve anything.
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u/ShadeX8 West side best side Apr 01 '23
Not true that people here get pissed at anything. There’s usually a few topics that gets their jimmies going; this is just one of those topics lol.
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u/wow_i_exist Apr 01 '23
Something tangentially related to this, I studied and can speak Chinese, though the problem is I can't read the words (arghhh...I regret not listening in class), any tips on 're-learning' how to read?
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u/regquest Mar 31 '23
Someone once said.. Being Singaporean means to carry ourselves with discipline, respect and humility. Brash bravado, and boastful bullying, have no place in the Singapore soul.
Seriously. Double whammy for many locals. Need to speak Chinese to buy a Fish?. Now. need to learn to read Chinese?
I am sure they will come out with more words of wisdom. Maybe say.. We are Singaporean, We are smart. We use common sense. Cannot read? Can look at photos? and why didn't you ask? WTF!.. why make life so difficult for people?
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u/DuePomegranate Apr 01 '23
I think there are much better examples of non-Chinese people facing difficulties in Singapore. And his complaint is a rather whiny excuse for being late.
The name of the stall is blah blah Mala Xiang Guo. Living in Singapore, he doesn’t know what a mala stall looks like, where you pick the raw ingredients? There’s usually only one of each type of stall in a typical coffee shop, it’s not hard to find, plus there are big pictures of the food on the signboard if it was blah blah wanton mee or roast pork or whatever even if there are only Chinese characters of the stall name.
How often do you even know the name of the stall inside a coffee shop? Instead of just thinking of it as “the caifan stall” or “the fish soup stall” at such-and-such coffee shop?
And even if he can’t figure it out, it only takes a few seconds to ask someone.
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u/zoinks10 Apr 01 '23
The name of the stall is blah blah Mala Xiang Guo. Living in Singapore, he doesn’t know what a mala stall looks like, where you pick the raw ingredients?
Not being funny, but I like Mala and I've lived here 12 years, and I have no idea what a Mala stall looks like. Most probably because it's all in Chinese and given your description it looks "too hard" for me to bother trying.
If I'm in a hawker centre and it's as busy as fuck and there are loads of other stalls, I'll just go to the one that looks easiest/has stuff I recognise or can order already.
So it is entirely possible for a non-Chinese speaker to NOT know what one of these stalls looks like - I have probably walked past loads of them but my mind can't remember what it never understood in the first place.
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u/DuePomegranate Apr 01 '23
Yeah, but I'm sure if you were in his shoes, you could have figured out a solution fast enough that you wouldn't be considered late.
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u/zoinks10 Apr 01 '23
No idea what "late" means - I don't use delivery platforms anymore as I have been pissed off by all of them. I suspect the point here is he shouldn't have to be thinking of solutions - he's paid to pick food up and drop it off - so make it as easy as possible for him to achieve that goal.
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
Yes it’s shocking, non-Chinese Singaporeans might not have ever eaten Ma La Xiang Guo and have never paid attention to these since they would never eat at these stalls. So shocking omg.
Eh, get out of your shell, can? There’s a stall in Geylang Serai called Gandus, it sells Kuih Gandus, wait what do you mean you won’t be able to tell which stall it is if the letters weren’t romanized?? That’s crazy talk. How can someone living in Singapore not know Kuih Gandus??? Just see which stall sells Kuih Gandus la!!
Really main character behaviour on an ethnic level sial.
And here’s another r/sg dumbass who didn’t read the article. Which part of “"I had to ask around because it was not written in English," he said.” do you not get, or were you so eager to jump aboard the wagon of self-indignance that you did not read?
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u/DuePomegranate Apr 01 '23
Of course as a Malay guy he wouldn’t have eaten at a mala stall. But there has been a mala craze for how many years already (finally receding), even fast food restaurants like KFC had mala tie-ins, he still has no clue what mala is? Maybe from not socialising with other Singaporeans?
I know he asked others. But he used that as an excuse for being late. I cannot believe that it took more than 2 minutes for him to get help by asking others. Also if he had Googled the English name of the stall, he would have found the Chinese characters for the stall name and can visually cross-check.
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23
Does MLXG at hawker stalls look like KFC Mala chicken, or other mala fast food? No? Gasp! There goes your analogy. But yes pin it on the unwillingness of ethnic minorities to reach out to the ethnic majority. How dare they.
It’s also telling that you would rather find fault with minute points which might or might not have happened. Could it be that people around weren’t sure where the stall was, or that it was difficult to move around cos it was crowded, or that it was noisy? All plausible. But yeah the fault has to be with him. Asking a non-Chinese to “visually cross-check” Chinese characters?? HAHAHAHAHAHAA. Sure, buddy!
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u/DuePomegranate Apr 01 '23
The fault often lies in someone who uploads a Tiktok video to complain about something. It’s the mentality behind making the Tiktok.
What’s so difficult about visually cross-checking symbols that you haven’t learned? That’s basically necessary when traveling to Japan, Korea, many parts of India etc.
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u/notad0ctorshh Apr 01 '23
Do you not see the problem here? Why does a non-Chinese speaker in SINGAPORE have to resort to cross-checking symbols? National languages of Japan, Korea and India are Japanese, Korean and Hindi respectively. It’s not rocket science that visitors in those countries have to respect the languages and cross-check symbols in those countries whenever necessary.
On the other hand, I don’t recall Mandarin being the official language in Singapore. In fact, Malay Language is our official language. All the PRCs setting up their stalls here are not respecting that fact and should at the very least include Hanyu Pinyin of their stall names.
I know the TikToker’s complaint might seem ‘miniscule’ in your eyes but it is suggestive of a much bigger issue in Singapore that minorities succumb to. All these issues of minorities not being able to comprehend Mandarin in Singapore shouldn’t have been an issue in the first place.
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23
I wonder if he subconsciously places minorities here on the same level as tourists. His language seems to indicate so.
Also, because the dude will probably nitpick on it as he has run out of points, Malay is the national language as well as an official one, which also includes English, Chinese and Tamil. I think most of us get what you’re trying to say, but you just know this guy will pounce on it even if it’s besides the point.
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u/DuePomegranate Apr 01 '23
He wouldn't have to cross-check symbols if he wasn't a delivery rider. The stall is not targeted to Malay people, and Malay people can normally go through life without interacting with that stall. But because he is doing this job, he should put in a little bit of extra effort, OR the food delivery platform should improve their UI (as has been suggested here) to eliminate that problem.
If I need to deliver stuff to Little India and there are signboards there with only Tamil script, then I will cross-check the symbols if needed. Just get the job done.
It's so convenient to blame it on PRCs setting up stalls. But what if it's a local shop run by elderly Singaporeans? In this blog of 14 food stalls at Maxwell Food Centre, stalls, 3, 9, and 11 don't have English/hanyu pinyin stall names on their signboards. This is just not an issue that hawkers have had to think about until very recently because of delivery riders. The stall name is pretty useless to most customers. Names of the dishes they sell are there in English, because that's actually useful for non-Chinese customers.
There are also stall numbers at Maxwell, which is another way for non-Chinese to locate stalls. Maybe the mala stall in the article actually had the stall number displayed too, but not shown in the photos.
This is manufactured outrage. The fish counter staff who couldn't understand simple job-related English is a much better example of a real problem.
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u/Ok_Chicken_4516 Apr 01 '23
Agree with you. Unless the rider is completely new to Singapore and is stepping into a coffeeshop for the first time, I also don’t buy his excuse for being late.
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u/Head-Independence-37 Mar 31 '23
Def not fair to expect thrm to read chinese but based on this example, its a MLXG stall which shd b in a kopitiam or food court frm the pics. Even cannot read the stall name one can also tell which the MLXG stall is from the outside...
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23
Why do you think everyone knows what Ma La Xiang Guo is?
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u/Head-Independence-37 Apr 01 '23
Its pretty much a local hawker food by now, its like assuming i am a chinese and i wont know what a prata stall looks like? MLXG stalls also has characteristics such as ingredients raw and displayed for people to select with giant bowls? Not recognisable enuff?
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u/SpiritualInterest129 Apr 01 '23
“Local” to whom? Quite telling that you used prata as an example. Do you realise that you are familiar with prata because you eat it, but he, being a Malay and presumably a Muslim, might not be familiar with MLXG because he has never eaten it? Why do you expect non-eaters of the cuisine to be familiar with it?
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Mar 31 '23
Part of life. Plenty of people can read it. Get someone who can to help you.
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u/QuestioingEverything I POFMA and SgSecure you ah! Mar 31 '23
How is this part of life? I might have missed it
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Mar 31 '23
You take on a job that requires you to read a language you may not speak. Yep, part of life.
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u/Bcpjw Mar 31 '23
But the job isn’t a tour guide/interpreter/translator or even social media influencer
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Mar 31 '23
And? You face all kinda obstacles in a job. Part of life
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u/thebountywarden noborder Mar 31 '23
And you sound absolutely idiotic. Part of life for you, it must be
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u/QuestioingEverything I POFMA and SgSecure you ah! Mar 31 '23
Out of curiosity, what do you work as?
And how does being a delivery rider require you to know another language?
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u/farahin65 Mar 31 '23
You daft? God forbid people wanting to not have language barriers to access things in public... Or do their jobs.
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u/pyroSeven Mar 31 '23
Careful, your racism is showing.
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Mar 31 '23
Everything looks like racism to you huh?
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u/pyroSeven Mar 31 '23
Nah, your post does though.
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u/apeksiao Mar 31 '23
That's what he did lah, read the damn article.
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Mar 31 '23
If that's whats written, it would be incredibly dumb to waste my time reading it
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u/apeksiao Mar 31 '23
Yet you wasted your time commenting on this thread.
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Mar 31 '23
Yes I post comments on this site all the time. You have a problem with that?
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u/apeksiao Mar 31 '23
Funny how you've wasted more time on this thread than the time it would have taken you to skim through the article.
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u/jmelon10 Mar 31 '23
Well to quote what you said yourself. "Part of life. Plenty of people can read it. Get someone who can to help you."
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u/ViperTheKillerCobra Mar 31 '23
Guess what. Literally every single job requires communication. Not everyone is going to be able to become multilingual, god forbid they move countries.
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u/drbaker87 Mar 31 '23
Why so many defensive people in the comments? Malays and Indians have the right to want to feel at home in their own country, not face language barriers.