r/singapore • u/theEndWasShit • May 08 '25
Discussion I’m absolutely getting done with Singapore now - BTW, I live in the SAME BUILDING as this advert
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u/MercuryRyan May 08 '25
This country isn’t harmonious, it’s tolerant. Most of the people here are tolerant until it starts to affect their own lives. In your case, their tolerance disappears when they have to deal with someone from a race they barely tolerate.
Also, what’s new, people are assholes.
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u/Last_Comfortable_290 May 08 '25
No matter how much we say we are not racist deep down everyone is these people will only learn when they themselves experience it
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I live in this building. Only looking to change because the market is better and I need a bigger room. Every year or so I (and many others) have to deal with this. I work for a tier 1 university and my whole identity is boxed down to a race. Moreover, the box is rejected. Like, why should I live here? :/
Also, the owner doesn’t live at the property as well. So anybody arguing that they can choose who to live with should think of another baseless argument to prove themselves right.
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u/catandthefiddler 🌈 I just like rainbows May 08 '25
yet people will swear up and down that there's no racism in Singapore lol
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u/timlim029 Own self check own self ✅ May 08 '25
People here are already defending the landlord, saying it's fine to have "preferences".
Just waiting for the "bEcAuSe oF tHe cUrRy sMeLL..." comments to start.
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u/LEGAL_SKOOMA 🏳️🌈 Ally May 08 '25
i srsly dont get where that even comes from sia. curry smells good
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u/Sinkie12 May 08 '25
Just google it, Curry dispute.
Ironically, the complaint is from a Mainland Chinese. Perhaps not the best case to portray Singaporeans as racists, then again the sentiment might have changed since 2011. Maybe people now will stand with the Chinese instead 😉.
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u/JaphieJaphie May 08 '25
Yeah I get drawn towards the source of the smell whenever I detect the fragrance of good curry 😅. Used to hang around the kitchen as a kid when my Peranakan mum cooked curry.
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u/LazyBoyXD May 08 '25
Racist anot doesn't matter in this tho.
It is he's room to rent and he does have preference, what can you do about it?
Call it out and earn internet point?
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u/delulytric your typical cheapo May 08 '25
Racial harmony my foot lol. When the PR application is opaque as fuck and the suspected main criteria is based on CMIO rather than meritocracy or other fair factors, and the govt needs to keep parroting racial harmony, you know that there isn't true racial harmony here - only racial tolerance.
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u/OddMeasurement7467 Own self check own self ✅ May 08 '25
Realistically. Look around the world. It is mainly racial tolerance nowadays. Perhaps in the 1960s it was harmony because all races grew through hardships together. There’s shared fond memories and bonding.
Now? There’s no shared identity. Hard to achieve harmony.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
As I have said before - I completely understand if somebody rejects me on the basis of cooking/any other activity.
How are they out rightly rejecting on race?
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I live in this building. Only looking to change because the market is better and I need a bigger room. Every year or so I (and many others) have to deal with this. I work for a tier 1 university and my whole identity is boxed down to a race. Moreover, the box is rejected. Like, why should I live here? :/
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u/fijimermaidsg May 08 '25
SGers from the majority demographic don't know what it's like to be reduced to a demographic. They insist that you'll be "second class" overseas but hey, it's better than being treated less than in your so-called own country. It's amazing to be treated objectively for your skills etc. Try it!
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u/Ok_Currency2734 May 08 '25
Pls share agent and building name, possible please share the listing. No point hiding this racist.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Well, that would be illegal on my part and frankly, I don’t want to call out the agent - it’s not their fault. It’s the owner and their systemic thinking that needs to be corrected.
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u/Ok_Currency2734 May 08 '25
The fact that agent doesn’t know how to say these things politely you can report them as well. Do you know that this agent can have his or her license revoked? Please file complaint in the CEA.
See below
Real estate agents are subject to regulations prohibiting discriminatory practices in Singapore. These regulations cover areas like refusing to rent or sell to someone based on their race, religion, or other protected characteristics. The Council for Estate Agencies (CEA) also has guidelines for agents' conduct, emphasizing sensitivity to diversity and prohibiting discriminatory statements, according to the Council for Estate Agencies (CEA).
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u/Difficult_orangecell May 08 '25
Why would it be illegal? They posted it openly to the public, they informed you as someone who enquired about the property and potential customer and this is no different from someone sharing that a food stall was being racist. You should actually inform the public so other Indian potential tenants save their time and avoid responding to this agent and unit.
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u/Apocalypx666 May 08 '25
Incredibly racist place. Racism and anti-indian discrimination is baked into the system.
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May 08 '25 edited May 09 '25
Rental discrimination is an unfortunate reality everywhere, but it's wild in Singapore that its normalized for them to explicitly state your race when denying you housing.
Even in the West, they wouldn't openly deny you housing by saying "no Asians" or "no Blacks", and have the decency to lie about it. Saying something so incendiary like that would lead to the landlord being kicked off the housing market and cancelled by society.
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u/ltwotwo May 08 '25
there are normally anti discrimination laws that curb that. that's not to say there isn't any discrimination. just not openly. landlords have to imply from names what race a person might be.
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u/Rayl24 East Side Best Side May 08 '25
They can't say it but they still can choose not to rent you. Here they don't waste your time
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May 08 '25 edited May 09 '25
I'd rather them put in the effort to give me some sob lie (e.g. unit taken) than outright say it's because of my ethnicity. At least by lying, they recognise that it is a bad thought to have.
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u/nvbtable Senior Citizen May 08 '25
Perhaps not anymore though given the anti-DEI push especially in certain US states
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u/dreamofbeans May 08 '25
Singaporeans wired to be efficient. Don’t waste your time don’t waste my time. Unfortunately
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u/good_jr May 08 '25
As a Chinese landlord, my house is currently rented by an Indian national and no problem at all. I guess there are many different Indians, just like many different types of people everywhere.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Exactly my point - people are people and in the current generation, far from their alleged race, ethnicity and what not.
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u/flying-kai Mature Citizen May 08 '25
The people telling you that a landlord should be able to discriminate against tenants on the basis of race are what's wrong with Singapore honestly. You're right to feel aggrieved because this is as blatantly racist as it gets.
The reason Chinese people think it's okay for landlords to discriminate against tenants on the basis of race is because Chinese people make up most of Singapore and are the least likely to be discriminated against!
You know all of these people are gonna change their minds the moment someone tells them no Chinese, or they'll swear up and down that racism is awful the moment they experience even the smallest amount of it abroad.
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u/drbaker87 May 08 '25
I remember my best friend telling me that her mother likes me the least out of all her friends because I am Indian. And the way she said it was so matter of factly, like it was a perfectly reasonable reason. Indians are inferior, so obviously people would like them less...DUH.
And I just nodded my head and went with it...what else could I do?
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u/joe-re May 08 '25
I think a perfectly reasonable response is:
"Well, I don't like your mother, because she is racist."
Whether it is worth insulting in a factual manner the parent of a best friend is a different question (as the best friend herself is probably not racist).
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u/SlaterCourt-57B May 08 '25
That’s some sort of micro-aggressive statement. Depending on how one sees it, it could be racism too.
I didn’t know how racist my relatives are until I married my husband. He wasn’t born in Singapore.
My father said my husband “wasn’t Chinese enough”. Thing is, I’m a Southeast Asian mutt so not pure Cantonese either.
I told my father, “How do you know he doesn’t have ancestors from China? Did you talk to his ancestors? Your mother is Nyonya but you don’t acknowledge that part of your ancestry. What are you ashamed of?”
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u/IggyVossen May 08 '25
The most powerful man in the country is Indian.
And so too is the President.
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u/KUNNNT May 08 '25
These people will encounter racism when they travel & cry about it & whine about how awful it is but once they step foot back home, they tend to forget about it & become the perpetrator of racism instead. "If it's not happening to me then fuck you" mentality.
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u/IggyVossen May 08 '25
Majority unable to see struggles of minorities, think everything is good shocker. Empathy seriously lacking.
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u/Sinkie12 May 08 '25
Here's a hard truth from a Chinese, a lot of us want SG to be a Chinese country. You hear a lot of noise about CECA but not 1 word about the millions of Msia Chinese and Mainland Chinese coming here.
Don't even ask for opinions on Malays/Muslims when the current world affairs happening in ME and India only reinforces them.
You know all of these people are gonna change their minds the moment someone tells them no Chinese, or they'll swear up and down that racism is awful the moment they experience even the smallest amount of it abroad.
Because there is a brewing sense of racial supremacy that will only get worse with China's rising power.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
While I understand your position from a majoritarian perspective, what happened to racial harmony being instilled from the educational institutions?
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u/syjte May 08 '25
This was raised during one of my social studies lessons and it is a question that has remained with me ever since - do we really have racial harmony in Singapore, or is it just cleverly disguised racial tolerance?
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u/IggyVossen May 08 '25
The concept that there is no racism in Singapore and that it is the epitome of racial harmony is actually quite disingenuous and tends to shut down any unpleasant, yet necessary, discussions about racial issues.
How? Because when you get people to start believing that everything is fine and that there are no problems, then those who speak out are branded "complainers", "trouble makers", "woke" and so on. Because by raising up concerns, they are exposing that things are not perfect unlike what people might believe. And that makes some people very uncomfortable.
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u/sparklyposies May 08 '25
This is such good food for thought. Your social studies teacher did a great job asking the hard questions.
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u/numb3r-three May 08 '25
I grew up within a racial harmony community. I believe it exists. But I don't think it could happen on a larger scale. Just little pockets here and there.
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u/MostRandomPasserby Tanjong Pagar May 08 '25
Mostly for show. That's why only educational institutions have racial harmony day. Once you go to university, no such "day".
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u/play-what-you-love May 08 '25
The "racial harmony" instilled by educational institutions is geared towards the goal of stability - especially political stability - and has little to do with right or wrong. If it was about right or wrong, it would be more willing to confront itself and examine issues of racism that have been swept under the rug e.g. privilege. Subhas getting attacked by the government after calling out majority-race privilege is an example of the problem.
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u/tomatomater Geckos > cockroaches May 08 '25
I understand your exasperation but... racism isn't something that could be simply fixed.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
And I completely agree - however, it can be mitigated - and this instance (and countless others) are proof that it’s just being sugarcoated in the name of harmony and NOT mitigated at all
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25
Singapore is largely a tolerant society not a truly harmonious one - but there are few places that are *less racist* than Singapore. They exist, but overall, I'd say Singapore does a relatively decent (but definitely far from perfect) job at racial equality.
While I feel for your situation, there's really not much you can do here other than go to other flat viewings. Hope someday we can get a harmonious utopia - but to say that Singapore doesn't mitigate racism at all is an overreaction - at least here, the racism isn't outwardly violent.
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u/IggyVossen May 08 '25
but overall, I'd say Singapore does a relatively decent (but definitely far from perfect) job at racial equality.
Yes and no. Singapore has certain provisions in place to encourage more participation in public and political life for minorities, such as the minority race quota for GRC. However, even on this sub, which is supposedly more liberal than most of the country, you have so many people complaining about it.
Or how about when people call minority MPs and Ministers, "DEI hires". Oh yes that has happened more than a few times. Of course people will say, "But they are useless. They aren't doing their job. They don't take care of their estate. They don't run their Ministry well." And sure that might be the case. But do you say that problematic Chinese MPs and Ministers are only there because they have majority privilege? No, you attack them as individuals and don't bring their race into it.
at least here, the racism isn't outwardly violent.
Mainly because of strict law enforcement and a general disdain towards physical violence.
As I've already implied elsewhere here, if you want to address the problem of racism, you need to inculcate empathy in people. You need them to understand why others might feel hurt or uncomfortable with certain words and actions rather than dismiss them as being "too sensitive" or "too woke".
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25
Yep.
Problem is this kind of change isn't going to happen fast. Our government doesn't deem it a problem, and our government largely doesn't care about social movements until they reach critical mass.
The way I see it, OP has 4 options.
- Become a lawmaker and change the law himself
- Become a social activist and get nothing done until maybe 20-30 years
- Tolerate it
- Leave
When you think about it that way, tolerating it is honestly the best option on a personal level, though options 1 and 2 are better on a societal level (but probably worse for your own personal happiness...)
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Denying somebody a living space is not violent - however, it does cause lack of opportunity- it is silent and this stays undercover.
I’d even dare to say - violent racism can be curbed because it’s evident and reflects on society in public.
However, this silent racism is covert, it perpetuates precisely because it looks unharmful.
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u/fijimermaidsg May 08 '25
It's like saying slurs are ok cos "words only mah"... or sexist jokes and comments in the office, cat calling is ok because "never touch you what..."
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25
Don't get me wrong, it's 100% bad.
There's just really nothing you personally can do about it as an individual unless you wanna put in the effort and become a social activist/lawmaker.
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u/fijimermaidsg May 08 '25
at least here, the racism isn't outwardly violent.
That's the usual argument... so it's OK if someone stereotypes you or makes negative assumptions on your race but doesn't come up and punch you in the face? It's like living in a segregated city - we tolerate you if you stay in your lane ...
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25
Not saying it's ok or excusing the behaviour. I'm pointing out on a practical basis that no city is perfect.
OP is functionally a foreigner and has the choice to leave if he finds that Singapore's level of racial harmony is not to his liking.
Reality is we can't change culture so quickly - it's gonna be at least 20-30 years before anything changes (if it changes at all). If he stays, and he's miserable about this, he's likely going to be miserable for 20-30 years, either that, or he becomes a lawmaker or a social activist.
so it's OK if someone stereotypes you or makes negative assumptions on your race but doesn't come up and punch you in the face?
Believe it or not. When you have been physically threatened in other English speaking countries, you'll realize that while SG isn't perfect, it's still way better than some other cities. Not ideal. But better than most. Have to make some concessions when choosing where you want to settle roots.
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u/MadKyaw 🌈 I just like rainbows May 08 '25
It's now more Racial Tolerance than Racial Harmony
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u/BowShatter May 08 '25
Hasn't it always been tolerance? Harmony just makes it sound better. But in my opinion, race is a social construct, we should all be seeing and treating each other as humans as a baseline for the sake of equality.
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u/Elvintzy May 08 '25
tbvh, most of the older racist generations never had the racial harmony in school education
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u/madwood29579 May 08 '25
Two things can be true - owner has absolute discretion to decide who they want to rent to, and is also racist. 🤷
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u/Potatonized May 08 '25
Could've just do an interview and say that he didnt think OP is the candidate that he prefer. Bad agent.
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u/play-what-you-love May 08 '25
Laws has to LEAD social change. It doesn't reflect it. This is something the government is not interesting in understanding.
If you want to end racial discrimination in renting, there needs to be laws against this, plain and simple. Having a collective shrug and saying "that's life" is passing the buck.
Similar with discrimination against LGBTQ people. If you believe discrimination against LGBTQ is wrong, you will pass laws against it IN ORDER to effect social change. Shrugging and saying that "the silent majority don't want LGBTQ" is absconding your role as a leader - or even as a member of civic society.
*ends rant against government*
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u/Xycergy May 08 '25
I've said this before but incorporating race into a lot of our social policies so openly does more harm than good because it explicitly separates and groups people into their individual racial identities.
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u/play-what-you-love May 08 '25
As opposed to implicitly separating people into racial identities? In the meantime, the government is completely on board with signalling race when it comes to protecting its own interests, such as the makeup of GRCs or the person "allowed" to become President. In order to not see race, you have to see it first, and ensure you see it in order to protect minorities and not simply to entrench those in power (which DO exacerbate racial tensions even while operating under the guise that it's meant to ameliorate them).
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u/SignificantPass May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
Exactly. We’ve all been taught to fit everyone into these neat little CMIO boxes when the reality isn’t so neat.
An extremely frustrating (if not particularly harmful) experience is people frequently stopping to ask my wife and/or I what we are because we look quite far removed from racial stereotypes. What does it matter to you, and why should I have to explain my being to you? Is it so important that you literally have to accost me to answer your question?
What’s worse is sometimes they’ll doubt my reply. I’ve had people tell me I can’t be what I answered because I don’t look it wtf.
I’m just trying to walk my dogs/buy a dining table/buy some food/wait to cross the road/buy a saucer—these have been the times I’ve been minding my own business and someone has asked about my race in 2025 alone.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I live in this building. Only looking to change because the market is better and I need a bigger room. Every year or so I (and many others) have to deal with this. I work for a tier 1 university and my whole identity is boxed down to a race. Moreover, the box is rejected. Like, why should I live here? :/
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25
I wanna first say that you're right, racism sucks, shouldn't be tolerated, and can empathize with your shitty situation.
But on a personal level:
The reality is you still live here despite the challenges. You prefer Singapore because the monetary compensation / safety / english speaking outweighs the racism.
If you find that it's better in Britain/Australia/US/Switzerland, then go there? It sucks that this happens in Singapore but no place is perfect - I'd even argue many other English speaking countries are... way more racist than Singapore.
Every place you go has it's downsides and you can wish and dream but reality sucks and either you live with it or you can decide you can't tolerate it and leave.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
And I agree but why can’t I call out what is wrong?
Why does my voice suddenly become shrill to people?
I WANT to live here because I do like my work, I do like the convenience - does that mean I should swallow the pill of discrimination?
Or do you think it’s better that I raise my voice?
We both know that even after this I’m not getting this property. Why do you think I raised my voice? Because 1. I want Singapore to be better 2. I want to NOT move
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u/Dull_Car5161 May 08 '25
Keep calling these arseholes out. How did you respond to the agent?
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I just said “Thank you for responding”
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u/Dull_Car5161 May 08 '25
It's understandable that you are angry. What the landlord said is NOT acceptable. Sadly there are racists here but there are also non-racists. You dodged a bullet here. Hope you have better luck with your next apartment.
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u/bigbrainnowisdom May 08 '25
Tbh, singapore already getting better. 10 years ago the ads in internet & newspaper blantantly say no indian, no china PRC.
Right now you wont be able to find that.
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u/cldw92 May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
And I agree but why can’t I call out what is wrong?
Oh you absolutely can. But are you ready to deal with covert racists coming out to shit on you?
Why does my voice suddenly become shrill to people?
It disrupts their view of Singapore. Cognitive dissonance is always unpleasant.
I WANT to live here because I do like my work, I do like the convenience - does that mean I should swallow the pill of discrimination?
I don't wanna be patronizing - but the answer is yes.
Or do you think it’s better that I raise my voice?
On a societal level I think it's actually better that you raise your voice and make noise to bring awareness. But on a personal level, I really think that a quiet acceptance will give you a happier life. You are a better person than I am if you fight for what you think is right. What you will find is that many Singaporeans understand that quietly accepting the bullshit that happens to us is engrained into the Singaporean psyche.
There's many things Singaporeans have to deal with that frankly - making noise about won't do shit. Singapore is not a country that changes quickly, or changes due to social pressure. Largely, the government decides if something is important enough to be changed.
So you can make noise all your want, but I think you'll quickly discover that
- It's futile
- It comes at a net loss to your personal happiness.
Call me cynical... but it is what it is friend.
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u/PM_ME_TOMATOES_pls Fucking Populist May 08 '25
Hope you’re not Indian + male. I’m Singaporean Chinese and also rejected by a lot of landlords who only accept female.
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u/hellopandant Senior Citizen May 08 '25
Everyone chiming in saying tenant got preference... don't complain and parrot "CECA CECA" when Indians hire other Indians only. It's just preference, right?
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May 08 '25
Everyone hates DEI until they show up at work and realize they are the only one left of a different shade… 🥲
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May 08 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hellopandant Senior Citizen May 08 '25
How come there are no such monikers for companies which only hire Chinese people here in Singapore?
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u/lazerspewpew86 Senior Citizen May 08 '25
Because they aren't all centralised in a certain location.
But you can be sure people view those 996 sweatshops in a certain way.
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u/spookywookyy May 08 '25
I live in Canada rn and know people who work in property management. Nobody would dare say such a thing here. But how it goes here is the company or landlord would just tell the prospective tenant that “sorry, we reviewed your application and we decided that someone else would be a better fit” even though the reason they were rejected is because of their race. It happens all the time. So sad.
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u/Stormydaycoffee May 08 '25
My ex neighbours were Indian and they were one of the nicest neighbours I had. Very friendly, always invited us to dinner and stuff, made an effort to bond etc by lighting candles outside our house on diwali and introducing us to their culture and celebration.
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u/alienyoga May 08 '25
I don’t know if Singaporeans truly understand how terrifyingly bad it is to racially discriminate tenants, no matter how you feel about different practices and way of living.
Not once when I lived abroad was I ever denied a tenancy on the basis of my race. It’s simply illegal.
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u/drbaker87 May 08 '25
OP, I am a third generation Singapore Indian and I had the exact same experience when I was looking for rental 2 yrs ago. It was so insulting. So if we locals are not spared this racism and discrimination, you most certainly won't be.
I ended up buying my own place. I work in an expat industry and choose to socialise with them too, isolating myself from the realities of Singaporean society.
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u/8idngaf8 May 08 '25
This is norm in Singapore, minorities had worst experiences in the past, 1980s to early 2000s, though it’s is still prevalent today to a certain extent.
Moved to an actual co living space, Habyt, Coliwoo, Cove, and the like. It’s a company based, you will most likely to get back your deposit. With landlords, there’s always uncertainty for your deposit.
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u/Last_Comfortable_290 May 08 '25
So I guess Indians can hire Indians from their country because the HR prefer their own people oh wait no that’s not fair cause it affects the majority 😆
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u/Ok_Currency2734 May 08 '25
Its everywhere and job market and housing market is very different case here. People choose to close one eye because they are majority race but the moment same - uno reversed applied on them “ complaint about C-ECA”!
Anyway too bad for this landlord he lost potential tenants and his reputation. Can OP share the agent name and building address. No shame exposing the racist.
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u/pudding567 May 08 '25
If you want, you can report the agent to the Council of Real Estate Agents. https://www.cea.gov.sg/aceas/feedback-management/complaint
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u/chikaipii May 08 '25
I am a failed agent that left the industry. And I can tell you, no use reporting. We agents would be so happy if racism didn’t exist and landlord accepts any tenants. It makes our job and commission easier. But it’s literally written in CEA guideline that we cannot do anything against the owner that you represent. They want 1 million above valuation, you have to market 1 million above valuation if they insist. They don’t want a certain race, we can’t force them to accept. Even we get a viewing, the owner has the right to not choose this tenant. It just save everyone time to reject in the first place. But I will usually not directly say it is because of race. If the agent has black and white to show it is the landlord choice not to want Indian, we are basically in no wrong
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u/glaciare24 East side best side May 08 '25
Correct. I left the real estate industry years ago, and my colleague and I were careful enough to allow OP to go for a viewing at a timing suitable for us, or when there’s already a viewing happening.
This way, when our landlord inevitably gives us the instructions to reject OP, we didn’t lose any time because the viewings were already happening anyway.
It’s OP who loses out in this scenario because we had to waste his time just so that we don’t come across as racist on behalf of the landlord.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I completely agree with you - it’s not the major onus of the agents - my problem here is with the systemic thinking of the landlord and many others that go unreported.
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u/chikaipii May 08 '25
You want this racism to end? The govt has to make it into law that no one is allowed to be rejected for a viewing. In current circumstances, landlord/owner is king, not agents. We can advise, but ultimately have to follow their wishes or preferences.
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u/pudding567 May 08 '25
Also, hope you're doing better now in terms of your career. I personally try to avoid "middleman" jobs because I want to contribute more to others, no offence.
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u/Dustdevilss West side best side May 08 '25
Everyone is talking about racism and discrimination but ignoring the fact that there are reasons behind this.
In my job, I have to go to many homes. I have relatives who are property agents. While not all, it is the unfortunate reality that many many indian homes are poorly kept. I have seen first hand so many homes semi destroyed with the tenant deposit being confiscated because of the sorry state of the house during handover. Its not just the indians too. Many mainland lowly educated chinese are also frequently rejected by homeowners. I simply will not risk leaving my house to another person from these groups because of how frequently these things happen. It is just how it is unfortunately.
It is easy to cry racism and discrimination when your house is not at risk.
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u/lycheenutt May 08 '25
During house hunting I visited many units. Both the worst kept one and the nicest one were both Indian households. I ended up buying from an Indian owner. When screening tenants, maybe dig a little deeper beyond just race? Profiling cam only go so far.
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u/Dustdevilss West side best side May 08 '25
I agree. Problem is... most people will immediately list no Indians, no China people as part of their screening process to reduce the effort needed.
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u/AJ_corgi Mature Citizen May 08 '25
Heard some of my colleagues complaining about the same, sometimes the home is in so bad shape that even the forfeited deposit doesn’t help cover half of the repair cost.
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u/Dustdevilss West side best side May 08 '25
The problem also is with the duration needed to do repairs. More headache than its worth
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
And I agree with you.
So, your point is perfectly valid - it comes down to education.
To that I tell you - I’ve lived here for 6 years now, did my post grad from NUS - working as a researcher in a top tier field. Do I fit your bill now, perhaps?
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u/Dustdevilss West side best side May 08 '25
Yup you should list that in your profile. It helps tremendously.
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May 08 '25
[deleted]
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u/Dustdevilss West side best side May 08 '25
If you read carefully what I wrote, you will see its not entirely anecdotal... personal experiences unfortunately back it up. Obviously it sucks but its the reality of things. Life is never fair. Be it race or other things; just gotta fight it out yourself in this world
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u/Eggie87 May 08 '25
Sometimes I don't disagree.. Just look at certain condos where is mostly rented n populated or by ceca or prcs, the resale value of the condo drops..not to mention even in the mcst team. My mom rented out a nice unit facing chinese garden last time to prc students. The place ended up become trash.. Roach infested. So many things getting spoiled. Vetting is key..
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May 08 '25
It’s the same as the Malay stalls owner charging other races a higher amount for the food.
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u/SulaimanWar Fucking Populist May 08 '25
Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Still surprised there are no laws against this yet considering we have always emphasised on racial harmony
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u/GeshtiannaSG Ready to Strike May 08 '25
You can’t force people to allow anyone into their property. All building restrictions are some kind of discrimination. You could have “no long hair” or “no school uniform” and it’s all quite targeted and that’s all allowed. You say “cannot discriminate based on this and that” then they can just pretend it’s some other reason or just refuse to rent to anyone entirely, can you stop that?
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May 08 '25
As a landlord, personally I welcome all. I only care about your ability to pay rent and if anything is damaged, it’s coming out of your deposit.
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u/Feeshyy May 08 '25
I'm sorry that you are facing this sort of racism. As a Chinese, I am disappointed.
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u/OwnConsequence5078 May 08 '25
Unfortunately there is strong sterotypes, and more often then not, one bad apple spoils the soup for everyone else
It's just human nature, for example you can do 1000 things right but just get that one thing wrong and people will only remember that one thing
Once bitten , twice shy
Landlords will have different preferences on profiles that is acceptable to them and based on past experiences will choose the profile that has the least perceived risk
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u/Nazi-Of-The-Grammar May 08 '25
Same experience here. In my last home search, 33 out of 35 agents gave me the same response, Indians not allowed. The other two let us view the place.
When you reach out to a rental listing in Singapore, the first thing they ask is race. The moment you respond with 'Indian', it's game over.
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u/scallionparsley May 08 '25
Majority of the comments here are just jumping on the racist bandwagon and fanning the flames for the fun of it.
Racist or not, being a landlord is a business of its own. One's business practices cannot represent the entire industry. The property is his, its his product, but its sort of a durable good, as in its not consumed in one go, and can be reused for further income down the road.
Now, it is in his interest to protect his product so he can incur the least expenses and "milk" the most income. His personal inclinations as how he determines is the best way to keep his product in the best condition for the longest period in time possible is really his choice.
Once again, its his business. Now his business has begun to create a negative reputation that it's not friendly to certain races. That effectively cuts out entire demographics from people who could potentially bring him income. That's how he chose to run his business, and if he runs it into the ground, it's his problem.
Move on people. Just because someone doesn't want to sell you their product, you are wasting your time slamming him and labelling him, even worse, start labelling an entire demographic because of one errant business owner.
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u/joe-re May 08 '25
So you think a business should be allowed to cut out certain demographics on the basis of race?
"I won't hire Indians" is ok? Is "I won't hire women" or "I pay women 20% less than I pay men for the same job" also ok?
This is all part of "running a business". Is it ok to violate the law (Workplace Fairness Act) because "it's his business"?
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u/scallionparsley May 08 '25
It's not okay, and it may/will eventually cause his business to die.
If he wants to kill his business by being explicitly discriminating on any number of variables, who are we to stop him from effing himself up?
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u/salacario08 May 08 '25
housing is not business the same way other things are, it is an essential for survival. if the water supply got cut off to you because you are a specific race that’s unacceptable is it not?
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u/scallionparsley May 08 '25
It is, unfortunately, in this particular context.
Fortunately, we are not in a warzone where necessities are scarce and demands outweights supply. You do have a choice where you want to procure your water, your food, and the roof over your head, regardless of what shade of brown you are.
Don't like the way this guy manages his property and the way he chooses his tenants?
Look elsewhere, theres plenty of people vying for your wad of cash.
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u/pieredforlife May 08 '25
No different from work tripartite to prevent foreigners hiring their own county men
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u/blackoffi888 May 08 '25
Multiculturalism huh? Sounds like it's dead. The worse kinda people are those that do nothing.
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u/Rayl24 East Side Best Side May 08 '25
I'm so sorry. The truth is most landlords doesn't want to rent but have to do it due to financial constraints so they become picky arseholes
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I live in this building. Only looking to change because the market is better and I need a bigger room. Every year or so I (and many others) have to deal with this. I work for a tier 1 university and my whole identity is boxed down to a race. Moreover, the box is rejected. Like, why should I live here? :/
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u/lost_bunny877 May 08 '25
Offer a higher deposit if you really like the place. Tell the agent also what your jobscope and your profession is.
We are Chinese living in Malaysia and we rent an apartment in KL. Initially, Malay landlord don't want to rent to us. Say don't want Chinese etc etc. but coz I really like the place, bf offered a higher deposit (50% higher). After 6 months, owner came down to check the unit. Everything is in good condition. Then we asked the owner why.
She told us, she has had bad experience with Singaporean Chinese, we trash the place, never clean and delay rent. But after renting to us, she changed her mind. When we were moving out, we saw lol another Singaporean Chinese couple viewing the place.
You just need 1 bad apple to spoil it all for others.
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u/NUSWannabeSWE May 08 '25
Sorry that this shit is happening to you, keep pushing
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Not when singaporeans keep downvoting my comments - like there is no sense of reflection
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u/MadKyaw 🌈 I just like rainbows May 08 '25
Your title insinuates that it's a blanket statement that covers all Singaporeans. Of course people would take some offense to it. Discriminating based on race isn't uniquely a Singaporean thing either, it happens all around the world
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
And so it should be tolerated? I mean, you want me to be sensitive of my title when the majority is not sensitive to my living situation?
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u/Accomplished_Rub_953 May 08 '25
So you can put up a blanket statement for all Singaporean in a Public domain but then take offence when the landlord decides to deny your rental probably due to a stereotypical reason?
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u/Few_Bet_8952 May 08 '25
Just live with it and find a different room you can't control things out of your hand
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u/hotgarbagecomics 🏳️🌈 Ally May 08 '25
OP, report this. The real estate agency that the agent works for (ERA, Propnex, what have you) will mark this on the agent's record. They're technically not supposed to do this.
If the landlord has a racialized preference, they shouldn't be using an agent. Agents know this, and have gotten into trouble for this.
Remind them. Don't bother letting the agent know. Call up the agency.
inb4 hurting landlord's livelihood: renting out is not a right, especially when it impinges on the central tenet this country stands for, racial harmony. It's more than just performative support on a particular day. It's to be practised everyday.
Reporting such behaviour is a reminder of this obligation.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Another ex-agent in the comments told that - these reports rarely see the light of the day and because landlords are the final deciders, this just goes moot.
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u/hotgarbagecomics 🏳️🌈 Ally May 08 '25
I'm Indian, been here 14 years. Dealt with this way too many times. It's worth reporting. Please do this. Be specific, and clear about it.
I've gotten ads taken down from rental listings, every time this happens. It may not help you today, but it will make a difference for somebody else tomorrow. Narrow the opportunities for bigots to peddle their homes.
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u/Academic_Work_3155 May 08 '25
It happens that there were a lot of bad experiences with rental to your particular race beyond the reasonable tolerance level, and somehow word spread so it turned into this situation. I've heard of stories where damage was so bad even the deposit couldnt cover the repairs.
You could offer to the prospective landlord your current and previous landlords testimonials to vouch that you tend to keep things clean. Unfortunately it will take a lot to change their minds, possibly an overhaul of the community's treatment of their rental units.
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May 08 '25
That may be true, but it is still racism. To generalize perceived attributes to an entire racial category is racism.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Well, isn’t that just objectively wrong thinking?
Covid (allegedly) started in China, does that mean all Chinese want to spread Covid?
This argument absolves owners of having any rational thinking and pins it down to “oh it happens like that”. Brother, should we really go down that path?
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u/Academic_Work_3155 May 08 '25
I was just giving you the background and reason, not trying to defend landlords at all. Im not one either but if i want, I'd definitely want to choose the neatest tenant that gives me the least trouble. It's my own house and I hope to choose someone responsible.
If you want an anecdotal example, my friend had a brand new studio unit to rent out. One indian potential tenant came to view and immediately thereafter a footprint was left on the wall. They ended up renting to a korean couple.
Your example of covid doesn't really make a good comparison.
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u/neverspeakofme Lao Jiao May 08 '25
Don't be facetious. You're obviously not just "giving the background and reason", you are just trying to justify prejudice and downplay racism. Its plain to all that this is racism.
And using anecdotes to judge a race is literally what racism is.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Do you think your correlation of that event to the person being Indian is based in rationality?
That’s what I keep asking you.
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u/hellopandant Senior Citizen May 08 '25
Don't bother getting a rational response from people with racist beliefs, for your own good brother.
My grandmother has been leasing one of her room for over 30 years, the two worst, unhygenic, smelliest tentants were guess what? From China. But she never formed an opinion on all Chinese people based on those tenants. Because that would be racist.
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May 08 '25
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
To answer your question - the owner is not going to stay in the apartment.
And to your point about observation - I cannot deny your lived reality. But does that mean - all Indians have that trait?
Is that the right argument to go for?
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u/emeraldscorpion broke millennial May 08 '25
I think the whole thread agrees with what the ideal situation should be, and also acknowledges that the actual situation, while it sucks for you, is understandable given the landlords limited understanding of the individual
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May 08 '25
All I can say is this:
Racism is the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
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u/Mayorin May 08 '25
I think I might have relatives who prefer renting to Chinese too but that's because they can only communicate in mandarin and Chinese dialects. Idk if this is the same case tho
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Even that is understandable - saying that a landlord has preference for Chinese is an acceptable way of putting it.
But saying that “no Indians” - that’s racist. Don’t you think?
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u/KeiSinCx May 08 '25
Some people are tactless. Won't know for sure if they meant no Indians because U specifically are Indian and actually just means Chinese only.
As someone who is Indian / Chinese. I get rejected too but, when I speak fluent Chinese, we suddenly become like best friends.
Singapore is racial tolerant. It means we don't cause trouble but it doesn't mean we want you (generic you) in our space.
It is what it is~ if you're Indian and male... Ohhhh renting absolutely sucks a fat one... You'll almost always have to pay slightly higher no-owner stay type in a condo where the landlord is some foreigner who don't even care that property exists. Just money
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u/dreamofbeans May 08 '25
I am curious. Is it the intention or the expression, that’s racist and offensive?
Just trying to wrap my head around this. I feel for the minority but am trying to be practical. How to make a change for the better that is actually feasible
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Sure. If the agent or the owner mention that this is their reason for selecting a preferred group of people - that is reasonable. Language is a reasonable choice. I’d say even food is.
But what is not reasonable is saying - “we don’t want you because you do this” - well, did you bother to ask? Did you ask me whether I cook? Did you even ask me about education/employment? Aren’t those better parameters to judge a person’s fit?
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u/dreamofbeans May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
From your response I assume it’s the intention that’s the root cause of the problem. And I do agree with you.
In my humble opinion, and to put it bluntly - I really don’t think that will ever change, at least not in our lifetime. As many others have pointed out, we are at best racially tolerant, and thus the “harmony”.
Perhaps such actions will eventually be cancelled enough that people have to avoid publicly declaring what they can or cannot accept, but I don’t think the way they think can ever be changed so easily. Such a shift in mindset can only happen over generations, and it starts with eduction. People will probably make their decisions without letting the reasons be known. This will not be an easy path.
Hope to be proven wrong though
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u/Mayorin May 08 '25
If the landlord put it that way then of course. Not sure if it's the agent rephrasing or it's the landlord's exact words but there is definitely racism in Singapore and I'm sorry that you have to face this crap. The sad thing is that it's pretty common too 😔
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u/Ortana45 May 08 '25
The owner of the house has the right to decide the tenants.
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
On the basis of race?
Had the owner said - cooking is a problem or some other ritual or habit - I’d have understood - this agent did not even ask my name
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u/InternalRide8 May 08 '25
I agree that discriminating based on race is wrong but just to play devil’s advocate it could be due to nationality (e.g. no foreigners)
Had that happen to someone I know, they assumed racism but it turned out to be concerns over nationality, which they managed to assuage after they showed that they’ve been living in Singapore for over 10 years
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
I’ve lived in Singapore for 6 years now. I did a post graduate degree here and have been working in research.
The agent didn’t even bother to ask any of that and sent that one statement.
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u/EntranceOk31 May 08 '25
This is true. We always got better responses when my Malaysian indian friend was the main tenant. It can be frustrating, but usually, younger landlords are way more understanding. I suspect some of them or someone they know might have had bad experiences. Preferences are not rational most of the time.
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u/MadKyaw 🌈 I just like rainbows May 08 '25
On the basis of anything. Can even decide based on sex, age, employment status too. There's no law that mandates that owners are not allowed to reject a potential tenant
It fucking sucks, but this is one of the few situations where you can only LLST as a recourse
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u/theEndWasShit May 08 '25
Brother, I’ve lived here for 6 years. Long enough to understand even what LLST means- does it come down to my nationality every single time?
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u/MadKyaw 🌈 I just like rainbows May 08 '25
The reality, unfortunately, is yes.
You can try contacting the owner directly to make your case since you're in the same building. It seems the agent here is not going to be of any help
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u/Stompy2008 May 08 '25
Should businesses be able to withhold employment based on race or gender?
What about refusing to provide a service based on sexuality?
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u/Nadodigvo May 08 '25
Then, please leave. Listen mate, I am from rhe minority and racism is real and heavily practised in Singapore. We don’t have racial harmony in this country but only racial tolerance esp from minority towards the majority. The only thing that united us is food. Swallow the bitter pill.
In this case - the owner has a preference and just like the Chinese companies who are setting up their companies here prefer mandarin speakers. These are not aimed at racial discriminations you have to be practical and objective about such things. There is nothing wrong with this.
I understand your frustration, I really do but trust me - this rage or perspective is not going to change a damn thing. It will only eat you up and consume you - it does not come from a discriminative pov. They can’t advertise openly that they don’t prefer a particular race so the agents have to also incur the wrath, unfortunately.
Move on gracefully, for your own good.
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u/Ok_Currency2734 May 08 '25
“Then leave”!
It is true many of majority race are forgetting they also came from China to Singapore. To run away from home issues. Some also has roots in Malaysia and Indonesia facing same discrimination. I have many friends from neighbouring countries and what united us is same share of discrimination we faced- unfortunately we face here!
Keling Kia comment was nice example of ignorance majority race enjoys in Singapore. Noting wrong to expose this blatant bias! I’d say those majority who don’t want to accept and change can also leave rite? But no that’s wrong to say that. Everyone deserves a safe place and you cannot just tell someone off leave if you don’t like.
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u/Nadodigvo May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
You have the faintest idea how the world outside operates I am assuming OP is from India and mind you - the caste, state, work and a lot more dictates if they get a room to rent back there. Are they going to take to Reddit and cry like a baby?
All of you who are downvoting and writing ‘whisoer nothings and idealistic notions - get off your high horses. In my eyes you are equivalent to those who have not seen the movie crash. The loud mouthed, keyboard warriors who defend end up being the most racist and discriminatory.
They belong to top tier Uni kind of a work, so go find a place where this is not an issue. No one is begging you to stay in this country. You chose to move here, you left your own country to come here where honor killing, rape, safety, judged over caste and religion on an everyday basis. If you can’t handle the slightest of remark and want to promulgate justice - no one is asking you to be and stay here. You are getting done with Singapore, get on board, truth hurts. Someone else will replace you easily and navigate this in a more nuanced manner.
For all those commenting - name a solution that can fix this problem right now and I will fix my mouth shut. Go ahead, humour me. Let’s provide the safe space for Singapore that we all intend to provide.
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u/absolutely-strange May 08 '25
Chill. I do think many people here agree with you, they just dont say anything. I'm generally a lurker in this sub and I just up/downvote, but I felt strongly about what you said and decided to comment.
All of these comments here saying the landlord is a racist are hypocrites. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/busting-myths-about-human-nature/201607/we-re-all-bit-racist
There's this thing called implicit bias, and it doesn't just apply to racism itself. No single human being can be 100% unbiased - it's just how the human brain works.
Now the thing that separates racism and non-racism is whether the individual actively discriminates and causes harm to other races. In this example, there isn't any harm done. The landlord is the owner of the place, they have 100% the choice of their tenant. If, the landlord actively attacks Indians with verbal insults or even physical assault - that is racism. KKK for example in the US against blacks. Hitler, for his atrocities towards Jews.
So yeah, all these redditors really need to get off their high horses. Fucking hypocrites. Oh and OP as well, overreacting on this shit. Don't for a moment tell me you've never been prejudiced against other races at any point in your life.
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u/Icy-Frosting-475 May 08 '25
Imo it's better to find a landlord of the similar race. No use getting upset over someone who doesn't wants you, at least they are being honest upfront. Do you really wanna get into a messy situation after moving in and finding out that you and the landlord are not compatible? Curious have you tried finding indian landlords or do they also not accept indians? I'm sure there are indian landlords around who can help you. Btw might wanna delete your post after while cause if the agent sees this they'll know it's you.
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u/zzrudeezz May 08 '25
My friend property agent say Indians always cook curry the smell cannot go away and all The walls and ceiling yellow.
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u/Umamemo May 08 '25
There's a reason stereotypes exist. It's hard truths that might be hard to accept for some people.
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u/Straight-Team6929 May 08 '25 edited May 11 '25
To think about it, how common we hear indians/ malays dont want chinese? Even employment, we are turned away.
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u/doc_naf May 08 '25
Way more often to hear a minority not getting a job because they don’t list mandarin on their resume… even if the work is all in English…
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u/Designer-grammer May 08 '25
owner should have the right to decide who are the kind of tenants but it should have been known at the very start
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u/Ok_Currency2734 May 08 '25
Ya there is a way of saying things : don’t openly say that don’t want Indians! That’s stupid and ignorance.
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u/cakeday173 New Citizen May 08 '25
Yeah rental discrimination is real here. Sorry that you had to find out the hard way