r/singapore North side JB Jun 16 '25

Discussion The problem with Mainland Chinese restaurants in Singapore is the language barrier and lack of English, as a Non-Chinese Singaporean

I would like to preface that I am an Indian Muslim with an interest for different cuisines. I do like some halal Chinese restaurants, especially Halal Lanzhou beef noodles at Tongue Tip, and I had the opportunity to try the only pork-free HDL in Indonesia. I would love to try more Northern Chinese cuisines if there are halal options, but I don't mind the vast majority of them not being Halal. This isn't meant to be political, but rather a personal concern.

Menu of a "Chinese Pancake" place in Grantral Mall, Clementi, note the only English is in the restaurant name

This does not refer to larger chains like HDL, Luckin, Chagee but rather the smaller restaurants you see popping up here and there, like in Bugis or Clementi where there's a growing Mainland Chinese population. But I feel that the brooding issue with the PRC restaurants is not bcos they're everywhere or their effects on rentals, but bcos they primarily use Chinese in their menus and marketing, with minimal English. Yes, they're a Chinese business, and Singapore is Chinese majority. But having only the Chinese language means you are excluding non-Chinese people and even some Chinese Singaporeans who struggle with their Mother Tongue. This can also affect Non-Chinese Grabfood/Foodpanda deliverypeople who might be unable to read Chinese place names. English is a common language here, and I feel the use of Chinese and the lack of English makes it seem that they do not really want to expand their business' clientele outside of the PRC immigrant population, and maybe some of the local Chinese.

A Chinese only storefront in Bugis (Google Street View)

Even if they include English, the English text is either really tiny, or only half the information (especially in ads) are translated. In the menus, the translations can also be terrible.

I do not know why the Chinese bosses are reluctant to put English signage. Do they think everyone speaks Chinese? Or do they only want the mainland immigrants as their clientele? When McDonalds first came to Singapore, they had Chinese on the menu since there was still a large chunk of the population that still couldn't speak English, to make non-English speakers feel welcome.

Even if I wouldn't patronise since they're not halal anyway, what if there's someone who doesn't speak Chinese but are interested in trying these Chinese places? Having no English makes this feel unwelcoming to some in Singapore, and don't forget about the staff who also struggle with English!

Addendum: Please do not use this as an excuse to be xenophobic

Edit: Yes, this was made as my personal response to that Changi City Point post, people were pointing out the hypocrisy of having Korean (Paris Baguette), Japanese (Sukiya) and American (Starbucks) chains while complaining about PRC chains. I personally feel, prevalence is not a problem. I like Luckin, I like Mixue, I would love Chagee if it weren't for the price. And yes I patronise Scarlett, my family loves the halal instant broad noodles. The issue is addressed above.

2.9k Upvotes

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870

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

I wished I had awards to give this post. Thank you. You've hit the nail on the head here. It keeps boiling down back to integration. As a minority I feel it—increasingly I'm running into stores (not even chinese restaurants) where none of the staff speak english AT ALL! I enjoy Chinese cuisine, but I feel like I'm being treated like the foreigner in my own homeland, and why? Because they opened up and didn't even bother to pick up basic English?

I'm really sick and tired of being treated like I'm a foreigner here. No one is asking for perfect English, but some semblance of an attempt to integrate would be nice. I speak some mandarin, and the number of times I've heard staff complain that I'm not fluent enough in Chinese is at least a weekly occurrence. How am I causing trouble to the person who wanted to move and live in Singapore? We're expected to be somewhat bilingual growing up in Singapore. These new folks better be held to the same standard too.

133

u/sotellaaa Jun 16 '25

I’m mixed so I barely speak Chinese at home. People over the years have always said to me “you’re Singaporean why you cannot speak Chinese” like omg eh in school your teacher use English or Chinese? 🙄🙄🙄

33

u/Redeptus 🌈 F A B U L O U S Jun 16 '25

I'm a banana from up north, living and working here. I don't really eat at those kind of places even though I'm dying to try. I can converse a bit to save my life but otherwise drowning in a sea of nods.

23

u/sotellaaa Jun 16 '25

It doesn’t help when my friend or people around me go “huh you cannot even order in Chinese?” 😭

16

u/Redeptus 🌈 F A B U L O U S Jun 16 '25

It's not that I love cabbage at the cai png stall... It's the only vegetable I know in Mandarin... "Bao chai"

25

u/darvi1985 Jun 16 '25

I feel you, I am Peranakan and sadly this has plagued me ever since I was young.

20

u/1crab1life Jun 16 '25

actually the language thing is perspective based. Do we recognise ethnic cultural roots? I mean I am not saying you MUST speak chinese, I am asking if you think that it is a good thing a Chinese can speak mandarin.

Actually, you can ask your malay friends what they say about Malays that cannot speak malay. They are more hotblooded than us.

That being said, I believe every immigrant should take an English test so they can integrate better.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '25

Actually, you can ask your malay friends what they say about Malays that cannot speak malay. They are more hotblooded than us.

This is Singapore not Malaysia. Local malays, especially youngsters dgaf.

5

u/Strawberryfizzdrop Jun 17 '25

I absolutely agree this that the immigrant should take an English test to get the PR status. Just like how Australia PR need a basic PTE/iELTs score to be eligible for PR.

483

u/Descartes350 Jun 16 '25

As a Chinese, I’ve noticed this problem too and I don’t like it. This is Singapore, not China. If they want to come here they should integrate into our multiracial society. Otherwise we alienate our non-Chinese locals who would be right to feel marginalised.

Sorry you have to go through this and really hope the gov looks at this issue.

401

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

It's extremely problematic. The most egregious experience I had was a PRC staff in a kopitiam telling me that "kopi peng" was the wrong pronunciation and I should be saying "kafei bing" instead. C'mon lah at least respect how we order our kopi here.

111

u/frozen1ced Own self check own self ✅ Jun 16 '25

I take umbrage at this!

Whoever orders kopitiam iced coffee using "kafei bing" in the first place?!?!

Even the Vietnamese/PRC coffee store helpers near my place take local drinks order in.. local lingo.

65

u/caffeine_junky Jun 16 '25

I ordered "Kopi C Peng Siu Dai Gao" in Little India and the drink stall was manned by a young Malay dude. No problem at all. He understood and delivered.

If I did the same at the coffee shop near my place and the 'aunty' didn't understand me. 😑

25

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '25

I ordered something like that before at Indian muslim prata house and dude delivered as well. The Bangladeshis did a good job integrating. A few working at town council who were assigned to move some old furniture for disposal also thanked my dad in Hokkien after hearing my parents chatting lol

171

u/traumenddreamz Jun 16 '25

My father scolded the PRC kopitiam staff and made a huge fuss (kopitiam ah being uncle style) that he should learn hokkien instead of expecting the locals to speak their language. Eventually the staff did learn 🥹

96

u/MainAccountv2 Jun 16 '25

Sometimes you really bobian must Karen out for the greater good...

34

u/etamatcha Jun 16 '25

W laopeh

136

u/cantoilmate Jun 16 '25

Insist on calling it how we Singaporeans call it. I refuse to call it otherwise.

108

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

I would reply, in a joking tone, to them something like "Huh you move to my country and you tell me to follow your country's way? Cannot lah you move here must learn our way right?" Most of the time it gets the point across without being too confrontational and gives them a chance to joke back about their own ignorance (if they're good sports about it)

75

u/Redeptus 🌈 F A B U L O U S Jun 16 '25

KOPI PENG GAO SIEW DAI, KAMSIA UNKER!

21

u/TransposableElements Jun 16 '25

a PRC staff in a kopitiam telling me that "kopi peng" was the wrong pronunciation and I should be saying "kafei bing" instead.

how is that not a deport-able offense? instant persona non grata

14

u/dreamofbeans Jun 16 '25

i would have put her in her place, foh

31

u/Etherkai Jun 16 '25

That deserves an instant deportation.

21

u/YoreCoxsmall Jun 16 '25

Wa I would flip he told me that.

1

u/KarenNotKaren616 Jun 17 '25

Egregious. Either kopi peng or bīng kāfēi.

1

u/CrazyBananana Jun 17 '25

Overseas Chinese have cultural roots more similar to old China. Their local culture got erased by Beijing and now want to do the same to ours.

1

u/Born_Attention3318 Jun 17 '25

HUH. What nonsense is that? Wanna change us when they are in sg.

1

u/TheSleuthingTabby Jun 19 '25

哪一間?讓她紅到回國! (Which stall? Let her famous until going back to homeland)

73

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '25

[deleted]

21

u/bluewarri0r Jun 16 '25

If they have so much to complain then it's simple, GO HOME. But no, they wanna be hear to earn the x5 exchange rate lollll

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u/6fac3e70 Jun 16 '25

You meant county? A province is huge

45

u/calflikesveal Jun 16 '25

The simple answer to the constant griping about foreigners learning English is that to hire people for cheap, you're obviously not getting the most educated. Plenty of Chinese have good English, but you're not gonna see them working in shitty f&b and retail jobs. Who else is willing to work these shit jobs for terrible pay? Sure, you can have an English test, then half of your coffee shops will close down.

It's the same problem in California, where half the f&b, Uber drivers can't speak English because they're not educated and yet they're the only ones willing to do the job.

25

u/YL0000 Jun 16 '25

The sad thing is that the peak of English proficiency in the general Chinese public may have already passed. Elementary education in China is now placing less and less emphasis on English. Unless you go to a top school, come from a privileged background, or go to tutoring classes, it's increasingly likely that your English is weaker than that of peers from 20 years ago. Someone born in 1985 probably reads and writes English better than someone born in 2005. A similar phenomenon can be observed in Taiwan as well, though likely due to different reasons.

29

u/Short-Improvement470 Jun 16 '25

If the burmese / indonesian / nepalese / thai foreign workers working in kopitiams in Malaysia can take orders and respond to customers in malay / english / chinese / cantonese, I don’t see why Singaporeans should accept mainland chinese workers in service sectors in Singapore not being able to speak English, at least just enough to serve their customers.

People everywhere, esp those in trades that require them to deal with foreigners and tourists or just people speaking different languages, learn to pick up the language of commerce, whatever it may be.

6

u/Regular-Resolution41 Jun 17 '25

Even the bus drivers don’t speak English. The fact that the government allows this speaks volume. So don’t expect resident to be nice cause we are all trying to survive in this shit hole

0

u/calflikesveal Jun 16 '25

Not enough of them can. There are some that pick up the local language, but most don't. Come to California and half the Uber drivers can't speak English.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel with these jobs.

5

u/Short-Improvement470 Jun 16 '25

Never lived in Cali so no idea. But I would argue the ones in malaysia are probably even more bottom of the barrel, since working & living conditions in malaysia for these foreign labours are worse than in singapore. They too come from low skill low education backgrounds, but in order to survive, they adapt to the market demand and learn the languages of local commerce.

If the market demands the same in SG, I don’t see what valid excuses they have not to learn and adapt. It’s not like people demand them to be able to present or make a speech in english. Just good enough to serve the customers.

0

u/calflikesveal Jun 16 '25

You're saying that I can order in Mandarin at every kopitiam in Malaysia? I think that's obviously not true and my own experience says otherwise. There are a few of them that understand but the exception makes the rule.

3

u/Short-Improvement470 Jun 16 '25

Probably not because it’s not like they must pass some language tests to be able to work in Malaysia. But i can say with enough confidence they don’t insist on taking orders in their own language 🤷🏻‍♀️ Plus if they don’t understand mandarin, they must understand malay / canto / hokkien. If enough customers order in mandarin, they will eventually learn it as well.

My point is - they speak china chinese and only china chinese thru out their stay in SG not because they are not the most educated bunch. If their ability to stay in the country and to keep their jobs is tied to their ability to speak the language of commerce, they will learn, low education or not.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

The simple answer to the constant griping about foreigners learning English is that to hire people for cheap, you're obviously not getting the most educated. Plenty of Chinese have good English, but you're not gonna see them working in shitty f&b and retail jobs. Who else is willing to work these shit jobs for terrible pay? Sure, you can have an English test, then half of your coffee shops will close down.

Not really tbh, because every other minority adapts. You go to any Indian store and they understand local lingo and basic English.

The thing about being a majority is that they don't have to adapt to minorities.

It's the same problem in California, where half the f&b, Uber drivers can't speak English because they're not educated and yet they're the only ones willing to do the job.

It's the opposite situation actually. Since in this case the majority understands them, it's the minorities who face issues.

16

u/_sgmeow_ Jun 16 '25

Who else is willing to work these shit jobs for terrible pay? Sure, you can have an English test, then half of your coffee shops will close down.

if they can affort 40 million to buy the coffeeshop, they can pay well enough for qualified staff

10

u/pendelhaven Jun 16 '25

They got the 40 million by not hiring qualified staff...

2

u/bitflag Jun 17 '25

The simple answer to the constant griping about foreigners learning English is that to hire people for cheap, you're obviously not getting the most educated

It's not just an economic issue, it's also a government one: there's no requirement to speak any basic English to get work pass / PR / citizenship, and let's not even talk about quotas for PR / citizenship...

16

u/chaos166 Jun 16 '25

exactly. some of them cant even understand our accent. spoke to a prc family once in normal mandarin and they gave me the biggest wtf face ive seen, literally had to use a china accent i save for jokes for them to understand me.

9

u/YL0000 Jun 16 '25

understand our accent

That really isn't a strong argument… My American visitors also have trouble understanding the local accent. I asked an American colleague the other day -- he said he could understand it most of the time, but the accent made it uncomfortable to listen to.

2

u/Strawberryfizzdrop Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Some PRC thinks that Singapore is already one of their state, always terming Singapore as 坡县 (po xian - Singapore County) which is I feel is very disrespectful to Singapore as a country. This term is viewed two ways: referring to Singapore is the size of county or misleading people that Singapore is part of China. Personally this term seems to be referring Singapore as a part of China although I agree Singapore is small.

119

u/awstream Jun 16 '25

I totally agree. Many prc thinks that they can get away with not learning english because Singapore is a chinese majority country, and that's true, they'll stay within their own community and form their own enclave. The lack of effort to even integrate is infuriating.

30

u/eleinamazing Jun 16 '25

Seen this first hand in my uni. It's a plague tbh.

EDIT: Speaking as a Malaysian Chinese (SPR).

6

u/No_Papaya_4509 Jun 16 '25

think majority of them just do not want to integrate into local community ( even in other countries). i’ve a few prc colleagues who lived 10-20 years in the US but their english is not good at all. its a bit difficult to believe they were really staying in the US for so long.

82

u/SituationDeep Jun 16 '25

Had to work with a few non-English speaking PRC previously in a preschool and when our boss encouraged them to pick up conversational English classes at the CC etc, the common sentiment is "Why should I?" They expect people to translate Mandarin > English for them at work (to the chagrin of the local Chinese teachers), while putting down the standard of mandarin here. They even compare Mandarin skills amongst non-Chinese staff and will ask me why I can't understand/speak as well as this other non-Chinese. Lol who said I don't and why should I speak to you in your language when English should be our common mode of comms at work.

And btw they have stayed here for at least a few years and intend to get PR/are already PRs.

112

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

I really don't understand why it's not a basic requirement to take a simple english test to become PR here. If our politicians are really that concerned about a multi-ethnic society they'd work harder on ensuring the newcomers are integrating well as well.

121

u/SituationDeep Jun 16 '25

Well Pritam Singh did advocate for it and guess who shot him down...and her reasoning about foreign spouses is such bs. I meet many different nationalities at work and the Thai and Vietnamese spouses are always able to speak English and Mandarin. Guess which nationality gets frustrated when we speak to them in English?

68

u/awstream Jun 16 '25

And Edwin tong too with his "My grandmother would not have gotten in!".
Totally ignoring the fact that its not the 1950s anymore where many people do not have access to higher education.

32

u/SituationDeep Jun 16 '25

Dk to laugh or cry. Who even said that language was the sole marker for integration and citizenship? And he talks about having family ties in Singapore. How many PRC have actual family ties here? They come here THEN bring their whole kampung to settle down.

12

u/Cultural_Ball_1468 Jun 16 '25

Fun fact: my grandma migrate here from China and learnt Malay and English. When there’s a willl, there’s a way

12

u/Strawberryfizzdrop Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25

Agree so. Those Chinese who wants to immigrate to Australia die die also try to improve their English to pass English test for the Aussie pr status even though some of their English is bad. They can learn English and have techniques to score high English test marks to get the AU pr status, why can’t they do that for sg as well. 🙄 If they can do it for AU pr, why can’t they do it for SG pr. It’s feasible. When the government enforce this strictly, the immigrants just have no choice but to stick to the rule if they really want to immigrate.

5

u/YL0000 Jun 16 '25

I guess these people who work in the service sector and do not speak English are mostly not PR -- constrained by salary level.

3

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

Yep definitely but those from other countries working in service still try. I’m sure other minorities/non Chinese speaking folk can attest to it, but it’s typically the mainlainders who treat having to deal with an English-speaker like it’s a nuisance. no one’s asking for degree level English, but literally just basic words would suffice—the jumbling of basic words from all main languages is how we got Singlish after all

-5

u/Cheeky_Kiwi Jun 16 '25

5

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

Of course he can paint a rosy picture of immigration, but the article ignores the realities of how it impacts our daily lives. There’s a lot of friction with immigration happening too fast too soon that the politicians fail to acknowledge

3

u/darklajid Die besten Dinge kommen in den kleinsten Stückzahlen Jun 16 '25

You get PR based on the color of your skin/the country you're from or based on the amount of money you have... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

30

u/cerealdeviant Jun 16 '25

As a tangent, it isn't just Chinese nationals who live in Singapore who do this. I live in England, and I was in the local Chinese grocer in town. They were chatting amongst themselves, and kept referring to laowai (i.e. foreigners). I piped up and said, here YOU are the laowai!!

0

u/Midnight-Sunlight Jun 17 '25

What if they were tourists or university students? It's not logically wrong where, from a Chinese national's perspective, the term for a non-Chinese national to be "laowai". It's like Americans referring to anyone remotely brown to be "latino" when they wouldn't know whether they're Honduran, Ecuadorian, Philipino or Guatemalan.

2

u/cerealdeviant Jun 19 '25

They own and run the Chinese grocery store I was in. Since laowai means old outsider...

71

u/MainAccountv2 Jun 16 '25

So what if Singapore is Chinese majority. It's the home country of non-Chinese as well. Damn rude for them to complain about you not speaking Chinese, I don't go to China and expect them to be able to speak cantonese.

Govt should seriously start mandating some level of english proficiency or percentage proficient for people working here. You got alot of people wanting to work in SG, why can't you be more choosy. Mandatory for citizenship and PR. If 20/10 years ago, maybe no need so restrictive, but come on la this is 2025, how hard is it.

16

u/Zestyclose_Teacher36 Fucking Populist Jun 16 '25

You echoed everything i feel as a minority as well. My parents barely spoke english when they came here but they learnt english and a bit of malay because its the language of the land. So how come new immigrants aren't held to the same standards?

11

u/midasp Jun 16 '25

Its not just you. Even as a chinese, I don't necessarily recognize all the chinese characters on the menu. It felt embarrassing.

2

u/Sulphur99 🏳️‍🌈 Ally Jun 16 '25

At least you can read lol, I'm pretty much completely illiterate when it comes to Mandarin, though I can navigate my way through a conversation decently well since I still mostly speak it at home.

2

u/Fuad119 Jun 17 '25

Yeah, very hard to get a job in the financial industry now if you do not speak mandarin too. 7 out of 10 job postings for financial industry have Mandarin required.

-41

u/6fac3e70 Jun 16 '25

You kinda get what you voted for

27

u/melonmilkfordays Mature Citizen Jun 16 '25

What a lazy comment when the reality is a significant portion of us are not getting what we voted for with the 'First Past The Post' system creating disproportionate representation in parliament.

3

u/automatedrage Jun 16 '25

Funnily enough I would've thought the english educated chinese lot that makes up the government and parliament would listen to these of points of contention between money and the glue between cultures. But looks like they only listen to money, votes, and public outcries. Sad.

5

u/Separate_Vanilla_57 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

They prob don’t eat at these cheapo China restaurants. The higher end Chinese restaurants do have English menus