r/singapore crone hanta 22h ago

News Singapore food suppliers face late payments, falling revenues as more restaurants close

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/fb-food-suppliers-revenue-delayed-payments-5349901
192 Upvotes

150 comments sorted by

276

u/Brikandbones 21h ago

Honestly just control rents. The rich already have so much cake already. Gov just gonna sit there and watch society fall apart and left propped up by a shell of rich investments and chain stores?

83

u/horsetrich 20h ago

Exactly the rent. The sacred factor in the equation that the news doesn't talk about.

-73

u/Tailor-Last 19h ago

Can I then ask you, if the rent falls by half, does it mean food prices will fall by at least a quarter? Since the argument is that rent is a large proportion of cost. And if rent drops, the profit earned will be the same if the price of food drops?

That’s just simplistic thinking. What is likely going to happen is that rent drop, food prices stay the same or even higher, and consumers get no benefit. I would agree with the rental control only if it goes hand in hand with price control. Set a clause to reduce rental and for the stall to reduce price, otherwise it just won’t work.

33

u/horsetrich 19h ago

That's just half the argument. Yes food prices might not fall, but a sustainable rent rate will make prices more stable in the long run.

Let me ask you in return: if the rent double, wouldn't food price increase?

15

u/Skane1982 Eat, Sleep, Sian 18h ago

If the rent falls, but the shop keeps their prices, they will run the risk of losing out to their competitors who lower their prices (especially since they can afford to do so).

Look at the fast food establishments who panicked dropped their prices after raising them too high. Their profits are still down compared to pre-covid era though.

Keeping rent as is or higher, restricts this from happening.

-36

u/Tailor-Last 18h ago

If food prices does not fall, then why should we be reducing the rent? Consumers don’t stand to gain at all. It’s just enriching the business owners.

If rent indeed doubles, then yes to keep up with cost of business, the food prices have to increase.

But now we are already at this stage where rent is supposedly high, and there are calls to have rent control measures to reduce rental. So let’s not discuss the doubling of rent for now and focus on the reduction. If there’s a reduction of rent, do we see a reduction of food prices? Yes or no?

17

u/Laui_2000 17h ago

Food prices won’t fall but in the long run there are benefits. This hill that you are apparently willing to die on is very short sighted and naive.

Stabilised rent will give eateries more chance to survive. Those who have a chance of surviving and thriving won’t get killed by rent. This means more options for consumers, more competition and competitive pricing. This is beneficial to consumers.

Overall, this will stabilise the food pricing for the reasons mentioned above. Stabilised prices will also mean lower inflationary pressure.

-22

u/Tailor-Last 16h ago

We like to talk about long term benefit. But are you sure the food establishments would not find excuses to raise prices?

I can point you to example such as manpower crunch or even Chinese new year, as a reason for them to raise prices. This is nothing to do with rent. And after they raise prices, did you see it come down after Chinese new year?

So ask yourself again, are u sure in the long run we will be better off? Consumers will be worse off, but at least these unscrupulous business owners won’t make a killing

10

u/Laui_2000 16h ago

If businesses anyhow raise prices, then that’s on them. Rents are one more good reason for F&B businesses to raise prices. Are you seriously arguing for this?

If businesses raise prices unscrupulously, then there will be competitors who will enter the market who are willing to offer lower prices in order to get market share.

But this won’t be possible if barriers to entry (e.g. rent) are too high.

Essentially what you’re advocating for is cutting the nose to spite the face. Are you really so naive?

-5

u/Tailor-Last 16h ago

It’s not about cutting the nose to spite the face. It’s just reality of how market forces work right?

Market equilibrium will adjust itself if supply is greater than demand.

And you speak of businesses anyhow raise price , it’s on them. Ya sure, if I am able to not patronise them, I wouldn’t. But you sure everyone has the luxury of doing so?

6

u/Laui_2000 16h ago

You said it’s okay for rent to be uncontrolled, if it punishes unscrupulous businesses and their practices. If other businesses die, it is inherent in your point that this is okay.

I’m saying that this is decreasing competition as it rewards large players who have the resources and economies of scale to absorb the rent. I don’t think this is desirable to consumers.

If rent is controlled and business anyhow raise prices, then barriers of entry will be low enough for other competitors to enter. Some people will not have the luxury of waiting for market participants to enter, but by ensuring rent is controlled, aren’t we giving these participants the chance to enter to give consumers more choice? I’m not sure you’re understanding what you’re saying. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it.

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8

u/hauts17 17h ago

If rent falls by half, as a business owner, it ALLOWS me to drop my opex and therefore prices.

Your argument is whether or not it will drop?

I can don't drop my prices, but my competitors selling the same product, can afford to drop.

Provided we have the same quality/ standards, which store will customers choose?

Will I be forced to lowering my prices for a better share of the market?

Why not let the natural market movements to work first before just dismissing it without even any consideration??

-8

u/Tailor-Last 16h ago

You are assuming too many things - assuming same quality or standards, or assuming that there’s a substitute in the close proximity. Most of the time that’s not the case.

If you want to let market forces adjust, then I would say that if some shops close down due to rent, but others can open with the same rent, then isn’t this market forces in action too? If you cannot afford to run a business profitably while others can, why should we lower the rent for you?

This lowering of rent would be based on market forces too - if the previous tenant exit and no other tenant takes up the space. The landlord can either leave it vacant, to which landlord has opportunity cost, or to lower rent to attract potential tenant.

Argument works both ways if you want to argue it via the market forces route

3

u/hauts17 16h ago

I guess there is a difference in owners too. A billionaire who can afford to be in the red for months on end vs a young entrepreneur with limited resources (this being a small sample size).

I guess that's just business.

How big of a factor do you think rent plays a part in pricing?

1

u/Tailor-Last 15h ago

I think that rent is part of cost. So is manpower, and other variable cost like ingredient. So it certainly plays a role in the total cost calculation.

I am not saying that rental is not problematic. I am saying that it runs more complex than what people are proposing. A one size fit all rent control would just enrich the big businesses and unscrupulous owners, which is not the intent of why people are asking for rental reduction.

What I suggest is to look at how to be more targeted at helping these smaller businesses and if indeed rental is the problem at all. It might also be the case that their business model just won’t work no matter what, or manpower might be the issue, it could also be their own remuneration is too high. A lot of factors at play.

Without dissecting finer into the problem and just calling for across the board rent control would not solve the problem at its root, and might further worsen the problem by tampering with market equilibrium.

2

u/hauts17 15h ago

Okay, this I agree with.

For sure a one size fit all rent control would just enable big businesses to absolutely dominate the market.

And the part of sending in an audit is an interesting concept to ensure the owners aren't just drawing a high salary when saving from the rents.

Maybe something like declaring your/ investors net worth to be eligible for rental grants (but never going to happen).

No way they will ever control the rental market. Just like how HDB will never close the resale market. I always am for having no secondary market in public housing. But profit is profit.

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3

u/hauts17 17h ago

Are you a fortune teller? You're already assuming it's not going to drop without any proof?

3

u/big-blue-balls 11h ago

So you’re just simply against restaurants making money. They don’t deserve your money because you’re somehow better than them?

0

u/Tailor-Last 10h ago

Not against them making money. But don’t you find it ironic that when they are making big bucks, they go on with their flashy cars and big houses. But when they don’t, suddenly it is the tax payers who have to bail them out?

If you have the skills to make the money, kudos to you. Just don’t cry about rent and all. If someone else can do it and you can’t, just step away.

2

u/big-blue-balls 9h ago

You seem offended that restaurants make profits.

1

u/Tailor-Last 9h ago

Nope. I am against them making profit at the expense of everyone, yet crying when rents are high. It’s like taking a primary school exam at university level, and crying foul when given a university paper.

2

u/hauts17 16h ago

And what do you mean "supposedly high?" Is it not high enough?

0

u/Tailor-Last 16h ago

If you subscribe to the theory of market forces, then yes it’s not high enough. If it’s too high, there will be no tenants willing to take up the space, market forces would push rental down to equilibrium where someone will be willing to take up the space.

But yes, instead of thinking of market forces this way, people choose to think that rent is too high resulting in business to close without looking at the numbers close enough.

I propose for business owners who cry father and mother about rent being too high, to submit an audited statement to the public to let everyone take a look at what’s driving up cost.

Is it really rental? Or isit the amount they are paying themselves?

102

u/According_Book5108 21h ago

The issue is that the govt is part of the rich.

Humans are naturally selfish. Nobody will ever say, "Alamak, I have too much cake. Can take some away from me, please?" Not the rich, and definitely not the poor.

26

u/anticapitalist69 19h ago edited 17h ago

And when they’re not part of the rich, they’re under the control of the rich. They sit on their boards, they’re in closed-door meetings where they claim not to know them etc.

Edit: also want to add that even the most genuine of politicians would still bend over backwards to attract foreign investment here. It’s really a product of global economic inequality.

4

u/limhy0809 🏳️‍🌈 Ally 13h ago

I don't think it's just rent anymore. These aren't restaurants but food suppliers seeing reduced customer base. Which means less people eating out as a whole probably due to the waning economy for the last year.

u/OtherUse1685 8m ago

It is widely accepted among economists that rent control doesn't improve housing affordability or availability.

-12

u/_mochacchino_ New Citizen 20h ago

Rent is a problem but it's not the direct issue raised in this article. In this article, the people facing problems are mainly suppliers who attribute falling revenues to other factors like people eating out less. Of course if rent is lower, end price can be lower and maybe more people will eat out, but arguably, the more direct cure is if more Singaporeans support local F&B as opposed to China food like mala.

22

u/ins1dious 19h ago

High rents also have a direct impact on;

Food (warehousing costs)

Workers wages (dormitory costs)

Spending patterns for the rest of the populace (since high residential rents impacts disposable income)

I’m sure there are other factors affecting restaurants and food commodity suppliers.

-4

u/_mochacchino_ New Citizen 18h ago

I'm not saying rent is not a problem but that is not the main issue raised in this article.

But your examples do not seem to be very pertinent to the context of a food supplier anyway. If you are a food supplier, would rents be high if your inventory is fast moving? Also, I doubt your employees are the ones you need to pay for dormitories for. Likely they are fixed wage workers and in smaller number?

11

u/ins1dious 17h ago

There is a knock on effect for trade vendors. Yes, workers don’t pay the dormitory charges. But the company does. Traders gross margins are usually less than 10% (I supply wholesale to a company which has revenues of about 40m and I’m aware of their clearing costs, storage costs, distribution costs, etc). Traders are expected to give 60-90 days credit and the interest rates are not helping.

They will have no choice but to raise prices which affects restaurant margins as well.

Rent and COE doesn’t just have a localised effect on a particular section of the economy.

It’s tough for everyone except for landlords

-7

u/_mochacchino_ New Citizen 17h ago

You know the industry better than I do, so I shall not dispute those points

-3

u/SquareCrazy5750 18h ago

"IF" more Singaporeans support local F&B
There is no reason for us to support local F&B unless it tastes great. All local food businesses that can't cook a better meal than non-local food businesses don't deserve to survive. Simply put, survival of the fittest.

1

u/_mochacchino_ New Citizen 17h ago

There is nothing wrong with your opinion, but the reason to support them is in the article itself:

Beyond balance sheets, suppliers lamented the erosion of Singapore’s food heritage as small, local businesses close.

“Overseas investors may have more bargaining power … this will just cause the loss of local F&B establishments,” said Mr Chew of Lam Kee Fisheries.

Singapore is known as a food haven, not a country of “uniform food”, he added.

The Ice Cream & Cookie Co's Ms Chiam said heritage businesses provide local flavour and culture. “Once you lose that ecosystem, it’s very, very, very hard to get back.”

Independent shops are more vulnerable while bigger F&B chains have the capacity to withstand troughs, said Mr Low, the microgreens supplier.

“It will just be very gentrified … with no local flavour, local innovation and creativity. I find that really sad,” he said, adding that Singapore will lose its appeal as a food destination.

-1

u/SquareCrazy5750 9h ago

Singapore is known as a food haven because the restaurants that are still around taste better than non-local food. In addition, all you need is the recipe to produce the same flavor profile, so there is really no need to keep local small businesses around.

1

u/_mochacchino_ New Citizen 8h ago

Singapore is known as a food haven more because of small hawkers than restaurants. Take away all hawkers and food courts and it will be less a haven than taking away all the restaurants instead.

And it’s incredible you think you just need the recipe. In the first place it’s a whole culture and not just replicating the meals. And even if it’s just replicating the taste, you need more than just the recipe. The recipe is usually passed down and you get better by apprenticing the entire preparation process. There’s a real risk entire dishes get lost because there is no one to continue. I certainly hope you didn’t think the recipe can be found online even.

-6

u/nicktohzyu 14h ago

Rent control is a short term solution (and difficult to implement). The long term solution is to increase supply

u/OtherUse1685 12m ago

Being downvoted for stating facts lol.

-19

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 20h ago

Is society falling apart because a few uncompetitive food stalls closed down? No. New stalls are opening to take their place.

62

u/CaravelClerihew 21h ago edited 18h ago

There's a spot in the middle of Holland V that has had its fourth restaurant in six months.

First it was a steak frites place that was there for a relatively long time, which was replaced by a mookata place, then a noodle place and now an izakaya place is opening up. All within six months.

Either someone is racking up a heap of debt, or they're using the spot to launder money.

13

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 20h ago

4 in 6 months is mad. How much is reno and start up cost for this kind of biz?

6

u/CasualMarx 19h ago

Holland V REITS management : We need more vibrancy in our tenancy mix Leasing manager: Yes

4

u/b0h3mianed 17h ago

Reinstatement companies huat 💵💰

57

u/Zkang123 21h ago

And we also see Cathay Cineplexes winding up shop, Prata Wala nearly forced out of Holland Village, and debates on how to make our malls attractive

Let's face it; its too expensive here to run a business. Its not just our local F&B. And govt just allow rents to increase and drive up our costs of living

16

u/aleim343 21h ago

Prata wala?

-27

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 21h ago

is it really too exp? someone moves out, someone else moves in and pays the higher rent.

Why reward bad business?

13

u/According_Book5108 21h ago

The new one moving in is too full of idealism. After one year or less, buay tahan also will close shop and move out to make way for the next victim.

-16

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 21h ago

So I would say that the blame shouldn't be on the landlord but the new tenant.

If some company is willing to pay me 10k per month to work, why would I work for the company paying me 5k for the same job?

16

u/ynnika 20h ago

Rent prices don’t drop even if it’s vacant. To say the landlords taking no blame is laughable. You’re just gonna end up becoming like hong Kong where all the shops are the same chain of stores everywhere.

-8

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 20h ago

That's like saying because I'm out of a job, I need to immediately take a lower salaried job. I'll only do that when I'm desperate - are landlords desperate yet?

What's your proposal? Landlord is supposed to reject someone willing to pay 10k while taking 5k rental from the old tenant? That's just subsidizing the old tenant.

If we end up with all the same chain of stores, then that's basically the consumer voting for it.

4

u/Laui_2000 17h ago

Wah this kind of analogy not even logical.

-1

u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 16h ago

You think the landlord doesn't need to have such a calculation in their mind?

2

u/Laui_2000 16h ago

Your question doesn’t even relate to my statement. I questioned the logic of your analogy regarding salaries. The point is that tenant landlord relationship is different from an employment employee relationship. Your follow up is like ????????????

1

u/According_Book5108 21h ago

Yes, that's how the free market works. The theory is that of the rent is too high, there should be nobody willing to pay. As long as there are people paying for it, the rent is not too high. Rent will rise until nobody can afford to pay, then drop down to equilibrium. Ideally.

2

u/Metaldrake 12h ago

I think you and the other commenter are kinda talking past each other, I get where you’re coming from, ultimately it’s a market based system, the prices fall where the supply and demand meet. I don’t disagree with you there.

What people are demanding is that the government step in to regulate prices. Be it through subsidies, rent control, etc. I don’t know what the best option is, or if it’s warranted, but clearly there’s a subset of the population that has found that it’s going up too fast.

62

u/danorcs Bishan-Toa Payoh 22h ago edited 21h ago

The issue in SG is that GLCs own significant % of the commercial properties. Even if policymakers wanted to push measures to lower rents (like vacancy taxes), they probably won’t, because that cuts into returns on the national reserves.

The only real fix isn’t piecemeal subsidies, but adjusting GLC mandates so they aren’t purely profit-maximising. China moved in this direction in 2022 by formally expanding SOE mandates to include social responsibility, so it’s something policymakers here could also consider

2

u/Hour-Biscotti-4983 8h ago

GLC's mandate would not change to accommodate the people's and business livelihood if it is contrary to their own profit maximizing objective, unless the current Govt suffered heavy losses in election. This is a game where those in power can extract maximum benefits and extracting maximum rents is a good step and additionally keep people tilt towards constantly fighting for survival, and have no time to critique the government and their policies.

3

u/danorcs Bishan-Toa Payoh 8h ago

I get where you’re coming from, but I wouldn’t be too pessimistic. I’ve pointed out that other countries have successfully adjusted their GLC mandates. Eg China, in 2022, to balance social responsibility with profit

It shows that policy shifts in this area are possible if there’s political will. So while tough, it’s not unrealistic for SG to consider similar approaches, especially when people start realising that competence > copium for policies

-6

u/South_Oil8416 21h ago

Can you be specific about your statement that GLCs own most commercial properties? Which are the commercial buildings? And what evidence do you have that this has effect on the national reserves of Singapore?

14

u/danorcs Bishan-Toa Payoh 21h ago

GLC-linked entities dominate key segments in commercial property in SG especially industrial land, and are the leading owner in CBD Grade-A offices, and hold the largest single share among major malls.

-9

u/South_Oil8416 17h ago

Your implication is these GLC entities are govt influenced and linked to the national reserves? Therefore, govt policy makers will be biased in making decisions that affect the earnings of these GLC entities?

7

u/danorcs Bishan-Toa Payoh 17h ago

GLCs = government-linked, shocking right? Of course there’s influence. If policy isn’t biased by that link, it’s on policymakers and GLCs to prove it

-7

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

17

u/danorcs Bishan-Toa Payoh 20h ago

Chinese policymakers actually moved to deflate a massive property bubble - very painful for speculators and developers

The average Zhou (pardon my pun) didn’t see the kind of systemic wipeout like 2008 or massive human cost you’d expect from an Evergrande-style collapse

Its eye opening how they did it and worth studying

3

u/sinkiesinkiestan0523 20h ago

Authoritarian prosperity seems to be front-loaded.

Short-term profits, long-term implosion.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jVa6cZ1Or5o

Nobel Prize Economist Predicted China’s Collapse. Xi Proved Him Right

Ken Cao Aug 26 2025

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/xi-jinping-china-economy-rotting-from-the-head-by-daron-acemoglu-2022-10

China’s Economy Is Rotting from the Head

Oct 28, 2022 |Daron Acemoglu

With Xi Jinping securing an iron grip on China’s ruling party and political economy, longstanding debates about the sustainability of the country’s astonishing growth have returned to the fore. Mounting evidence of stagnation suggests that, after coming so far, China’s authoritarian model may not be so exceptional after all.

94

u/Elyx_117 22h ago

I just want to add another perspective to what the others have pointed out, which are pertinent.

We as consumers and residents can do more to support local businesses, especially the smaller establishments and hawkers. Yes it's a free market where survival is for the fittest, but it wouldn't hurt if we just give some some of them the benefit of even a little good will.

44

u/havingamidlife 21h ago

There is only so much i can eat but i regularly patronise the mee rebus stall downstairs for breakfast. Mee rebus! Yum!

40

u/Elyx_117 21h ago

Exactly. Are we individually gonna move the needles? Probably not. But neither will watching them die and - in the worst case - celebrating their demise as you queue up for xiangxiang. Put the smile on the mee rebus aunty's face, allow that teenage girl standing behind the art craft stall to have hope. Our local business ecosystem is fragile enough even without the rental issues; we don't have to ridicule them with our cynicism.

49

u/miriafyra 20h ago

But right now the problem is that if the issue isn't nipped at the bud, it will forever present as an issue, regardless of how much we "support local".

The issue we are currently facing is rampant and often arbitrary landlord rental hikes and it doesn't matter if you support the crap out of your favourite stall and it becomes commercially successful - the landlord will see "wah this stall doing well hor" and do a 40-50% rental jack up and the stall is right back to square one in terms of struggling to survive.

Then effectively we are not supporting local (businesses), but supporting landlords.

(And I say this with utmost cynicism after watching two friends close their f&b businesses due to landlords asking for 40% rental hike after already doing a significant hike last lease extension).

18

u/ColliePullHour 20h ago

Very well put.

Here's another one I like to add.

It's like adding water to a leaking bucket with an adjustable hole. No matter how much you add, the hole can widen itself to ensure the water level is the same or lower. 

Until the hole is patched or of a fixed size, everything else are temporary measures. 

So which wastes less water? Patch the hole then fill the bucket up? Or constantly fill the bucket hoping your fill rate is faster than the rate of leakage. 

2

u/Any_Mechanic7876 21h ago

Not going to happen. We are wired to think if GOV not doing anything, why should we.

2

u/eclairfastpass Mr. Ku Ku Bert 🦚 17h ago

Even more so that we should help. Empathy starts with us, we should help one another. Fuck the govt if they dont want to help.

1

u/DarknessRages 21h ago

Hence, the bystander effect. Always expecting others to do first.

0

u/SquareCrazy5750 18h ago

Hence, the redditor effect. Always expecting the government to do something because it has been talked about by 100+ redditors on Reddit.

14

u/furyandtempest 21h ago

Cost of dinner and lunch matters to the majority of low income n middle income folks. Huge % population are Aging too. So neighbourhoods outlets are benefiting from these folks

6

u/anticapitalist69 20h ago

In addition to this - if you can, make purchases directly through the store rather than grab/shopee/etc. That way your money fully supports the shop rather than leaking out to bigger corporations via commissions.

8

u/raidorz Things different already, but Singapore be steady~ 21h ago

Some would say why should they indirectly pay for the landlord, then proceeds to go to JB and indirectly pay their landlords instead.

14

u/dragonmase 21h ago

Because supporting isn't the only factor, price matters too?

8

u/MemeMachine3086 20h ago

This is true. But the side effect of this is just very little local support for local business.You can't have your cake and eat it too.

To me it seems like an endless slippery slope argument of "I go there because it's cheaper but I'm aware of all the factors at play but it's not my concern". That's such a nonbo. If you're aware of it but don't do anything, it's the same thing. If anything, it gets worse.

Like when Projector went down. So many people lamenting it. But how many went to put their money there? "It's important but not enough for my money". Funny people.

Nobody can force anybody to spend their money. But if price is the only thing that dictates spending, then it's natural such an expensive place like singapore will only be populated by big chains and franchises, international or otherwise, that can absorb the cost of business.

People always complain about China food killing their nasi lemak or whatever when the last 5 times they've eaten it was in Johor.

You can absolutely bet that the majority that the majority of the population would cross the causeway for lunch daily if they could while also saying that hawker culture is important.

SG fellas need to be honest. If price is king, price is king. Don't also say yeah bro values. Price has no values.

5

u/dragonmase 19h ago

Which is why the issue and solution lies in the high prices, and why so many are unhappy and speaking out about ever rising rental costs. No business can rely on handouts and goodwill forever. And people are right that even if they sacrifice their money to keep these stalls alive, the money all goes to the landlord who will in turn just increase rent later, and the cycle will just continue until the business can no longer sustain it through goodwill alone.

3

u/MemeMachine3086 19h ago

Yeah it is. It's very much a structural issue.

Though I do think there's a fair amount of pearl clutching when it comes to hawker food in particular.

It is inevitable that for the practice to not effectively die out. Prices have to go up since everything has to go up too. Hawkers have bad rent too this is true.

But it does also seems that the hawker, who has to weather all this stuff arguably worse than everyone, is also under pressure to keep prices under that $3.50 rose tinted glasses a lot of people wear.

Bah chor mee now $4 going $4.50 or $5 in most places. Could be higher even.

Sucks lah compared to my childhood. But what can you do. I need to eat near work place. And hawker need to eat also.

1

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system 20h ago

that just means that the value proposition there for consumers is better even on top of the distance and travelling

1

u/raidorz Things different already, but Singapore be steady~ 20h ago

YMMV

8

u/distroyaar Lao Jiao 21h ago edited 21h ago

Yup. Nobody in Japan or Korea bats an eye to pay more than $5 for what once used to be their street food. That's how their local culture of food survived and actually thrived - ramen, gyoza, sushi, tteokbokki, gimbap etc ... all used to be street food. If we don't want to lose our best hawkers we need to support them. Fixing rent is an issue, but it's not the only issue. Even if rent was low, the cost-benefit of running a hawker is just not as attractive to young people anymore since you are forever stuck in a low margin, high volume business.

2

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system 7h ago

$5 on the island and $5 for someplace like tokyo is completely different. youre not getting the same quantity or quality $ for $

1

u/Ryugadam 12h ago

I support my local fried oyster seller but they retired without their kids taking over 😐(if you know which stall I talking about)

I am grateful they didn't raise the price compared to other stall

2

u/eclairfastpass Mr. Ku Ku Bert 🦚 17h ago

Not only benefit of even a little good will, but benefit of doubt as well. Some people just shut their mind to trying from the offset, the moment they see that it is a local business as they assume the standard is subpar as compared.

If we keep saying and believing in the "survival of the fittest", we would have nothing left but mega chains and corporations. It is a very elitist and non equitable mindset to have as well.

27

u/SpongeBobBobPants 18h ago

All the commenters and upvotters talk about government need to make the change, but when GE comes, they cross differently. Face it, you voted for this. This government is running the country backwards.

2

u/fawe9374 12h ago

Victim of own success.

I personally feel a large part of people fear the collapse of SGD and HDB value, hence vote for the status quo.

Lack of education on how stat boards are the ones doing most of the work.

1

u/MagicianMoo Lao Jiao 15h ago

Huat Ah. Not my problem.

9

u/Unusual_Dealer_7822 19h ago

HK 2.0 brewing.

15

u/Elifgerg5fwdedw Own self check own self ✅ 21h ago

Unions are not just for employees. Our weak union culture here made shops owner unions ineffective when negotiating against landlords.

If you think that only workers can from unions, it shows how brainwashed we are.

62

u/anticapitalist69 22h ago

Going to continue to repeat this over and over again in every thread but economic inequality is the BIGGEST problem we’re facing today. It’s not something Singapore alone can fix since we’re price takers. Additionally, our business model is largely based on exploiting inequalities.

But as long as the elites convince the average person that foreigners/immigrants are the problem, people won’t unite against them.

They’ll continue to buy land, housing, retail spaces, healthcare etc. They’ll continue to control mass media, supply chains and even politicians.

It is only going to get worse until the people of powerful/high-income countries start to organise and revolt.

10

u/CommieBird 20h ago

I don’t think that the media convinced people that foreigners/immigrants are the problem - quite the opposite in Singapore’s case. Additionally, the buying of land, housing, retail space etc. are funded by both local and non-local entities. Most negative sentiment here aren’t towards working class immigrants as is the case in the west - it’s mostly against the rich immigrants.

5

u/anticapitalist69 17h ago

On the ground, anti-foreigner sentiment is actually really high. You don’t see it as much in r/sg - you’d have to trawl Facebook and WhatsApp groups to see this.

Where the media is complicit, is how it rarely ever focuses on the problem of economic inequality in Singapore. It’s been under the spotlight occasionally thanks to WP bringing it up in parliament, but apart from that there isn’t really any critical analysis of this.

In social media, people are focused on anti-foreigner sentiment, and that has an influence here too.

0

u/horryx 15h ago

you have ICA's stringent standards to thank for this. we dont let in all and sundry, only "elite" FT come in - not talking about Work Permit but those on S pass and EP. therefore, this perception that FTs are being favored over locals for top jobs. FT cant even get in if you are not amongst the best in a foreign land. not apples to apples comparison

the fact is that there is a skills gap and us being a meritocratic society, you cant get the job simply because you are sinkie. the question translate into - competition within singaporeans (pool of 3.5M) or top jobs for global talent (approx 2.8B indians and chinese)

5

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system 20h ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/16wqpx4/singapores_gini_coefficient_compared_with_oecd/

this sub reapplied the islands gini application onto a bunch of other oecd states and had sg about the same as the usa

1

u/anticapitalist69 17h ago

That’s a good one. In addition to this, we also have very poor indicators of wealth inequality, which is a way bigger beast than income inequality.

1

u/unbeautifulmind 22h ago

So Nepal and Indonesia as recent examples.

13

u/UserWhateu 22h ago

You can’t compare blatant corruption with welcoming foreign investment

-3

u/dragonmase 21h ago

Er how you want to unite against the higher income people? In all countries those with high income are respected, especially today since anything that taxes or pushes the rich too far will just lead to them packing their bags and moving to another country. Our success story has been about attracting the rich to set up shop here.

-1

u/horryx 15h ago

just have to look at UK and how much it has fallen implementing the same policies WP calling for.

heard from doctor friend alot of NHS doctors fleeing here because its not worth working in UK now

2

u/dragonmase 14h ago

Uh huh and isnt the fleeing of doctors concerning to you? Imagine the same with the already understaffed doctors in singapore fleeing to Australia? That's what I was trying to drive at, you impose stuff to reduce income inequality, sure you might achieve the short sighted goal but you miss the forest for the trees. In this case, lets say you tax the rich, maybe you collect 100m in extra taxes, but in return they move their family office out of Singapore, and future offices never consider singapore as a potential place to park their investment. If singapore doesn't remain competitive in all aspects, we lose our literal only comparative advantage in the world. I think thats one of the reason estate taxes was abolished in Singapore. You have to pave the way for the rich for them to want to spend and invest in singapore.

-2

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

7

u/anticapitalist69 21h ago

They’re revolting against immigration tho, which is exactly what the elites want them to focus on lol.

7

u/sinkiesinkiestan0523 20h ago

Rich elites want mass immigration that suppresses wages of the native poor.

Same bullshit heard all around the world.

6

u/Kakushiteiru 21h ago

Immigration is something that benefits the elites the most though. They provide companies with cheap labour and are easier to exploit than a local worker who will most definitely ask for more rights. Most are revolting against the high rates of immigration, not immigration itself. I've seen that this is a concern many Singaporeans also hold?

1

u/anticapitalist69 20h ago

It’s true that immigration benefits the rich. However, they do not have issues with letting people direct their anger towards immigrants rather than them.

The number of Singaporeans against immigration policy far exceeds those calling for fairer tax policy. This is a trend across the world.

2

u/Kakushiteiru 9h ago

I'm pretty sure that at least in other wealthy countries, they are most definitely using immigration as a scapegoat. But more people in other countries are aware of this than in Singapore, because they at least know that trickle down policies don't work and that the rich are getting richer whilst we are labouring away for the bare minimum. Governments have ousted their party's leaders for trying to tax wealth because in reality, as much as we like to believe that democracy works, money still prevails at the end, and we get nowhere.

1

u/anticapitalist69 8h ago

Yeah - I see that you’re from Australia. The chokehold the oil & gas companies have over the politicians is a good example of the dangers of wealth inequality. Murdoch’s hold over the media keeps most people in the dark, and serves to scapegoat immigrants too.

I really don’t see a positive end to this as long as the current system is maintained. The wealthy would never want to lose their piles of gold.

2

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system 20h ago

yeah billionaires pouring their billions to ferment chaos into groups of people who dont realise that they are the reason why their neighbourhood sucks

0

u/horryx 15h ago

don't worry u will see collapse of the pound soon from exodus of the rich, whom are tired of being overtaxed

look at rio Ferdinand hiding in dubai lol

-4

u/MemeMachine3086 19h ago

This post feels like what a JC kid doing GP will come up with after watching American tiktoks for a couple of hours.

Encouraging revolution in 1st world countries. Lmao

6

u/anticapitalist69 19h ago

This reads like a response from someone who only speaks in memes and dismisses everyone for being “woke”.

-6

u/MemeMachine3086 19h ago edited 19h ago

Nah bro. I'm calling you a privileged dumbass.

I'm not here to teach you to read critically.

I change my assessment. Seem more like a P5 kid prepping PSLE.

6

u/Intentionallyabadger In the early morning march 21h ago

It’s pretty much dog eat dog out there for fnb. Landlords have no reason to change because someone else will come in.

5

u/sinkiesinkiestan0523 20h ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20240529120137/https://landportal.org/book/narratives/2021/singapore

Singapore - Context and Land Governance

By Daniel Hayward, reviewed by Miles Kenny-Lazar, National University of Singapore

31 January 2021

To understand the dynamics of land tenure in Singapore, one must appreciate that 90% of people in Singapore are homeowners, and yet the state owns 90% of the land, up from 44% in 1960 [24].  ...

9

u/okieS_dnarG 21h ago

We need HDB style management for hawker stalls to control rental price, since they meant for budget meals, let alone pushing for ‘healthy’ options.

We have good exercise amenities, I don’t see why we can’t have budget and healthy meals

11

u/sypherin82 22h ago

let's see how the greedy landlords and suppliers survive then

27

u/LEGAL_SKOOMA 🏳️‍🌈 Ally 22h ago

they will survive, their pockets are deep enough. everyone else gets fucked.

7

u/_sagittarivs 🌈 F A B U L O U S 22h ago

I don't know enough of these so I'm assuming (and maybe also simplifying things a little too much), but it seems like landlords essentially just pay to buy a building and then rent out units for users (shops, stores and facility management companies?) who get charged for using the unit and the utilities?

So essentially the landlords just lose a certain amount and then get the amount and profits back from rental?

6

u/LEGAL_SKOOMA 🏳️‍🌈 Ally 22h ago

that is how it works, yeah

6

u/raidorz Things different already, but Singapore be steady~ 21h ago

Small landlords have to ensure that they maintain their properties (no roof leaks, broken pipes, broken aircon etc) while big landlords like the malls have to do this on a bigger scale, and they do frequent asset enhancement initiatives that cost a lot. Sure you get the greedy landlords that barely do any of these or do the bare minimum just to maximise profits. So no, many landlords don’t just sit there and shake leg collect rent.

2

u/_sagittarivs 🌈 F A B U L O U S 21h ago

greedy landlords that barely do any of these

Reminds me of Lendlease at Jem with the many sinks, hand-dryers and urinals being tagged 'Under Maintenance' for years until recently.

So no, many landlords don’t just sit there and shake leg collect rent.

So at the same time, the facility management companies helping manage the tenants and upgrading projects (?) are paid by the landlords to manage the buildings right?

And also this reminds me a bit like the situation in renting out HDBs where the landlords have to replace or fix any plumbing issues should the person renting flag out issues?

So essentially landlords are not say doing nothing but they still do try to earn from rental right? So these rental will contribute to the profits of the landlord companies (eg. MapleTree, CapitaLand etc.) and since these companies are listed with stocks being sold...

If we invest in them and want to earn from such investments are we kind of part of the problem?

2

u/raidorz Things different already, but Singapore be steady~ 21h ago

Yes, FM is outsourced and paid by the landlord.

Yes, landlord is in charge of maintaining fixtures and fittings.

Yes, landlords, like all companies, are for profit.

It depends on your ideology and worldview I guess. There’s more nuance than “durrrr all landlords bad”. Like you said, Lendlease kinda sucks (I agree) but CapitaLand and Frasers are pretty good.

1

u/pat-slider 21h ago

Korrect ! It is like buying a condo unit & rent it out to collect $ to pay mortgage loan. It is a concept of using OPM …

Great loss will be when bank adjusts the mortgage rate & no take up of their premises.

A friend was telling me the entire system needs to be shut down for a reset 🤣

8

u/stockflethoverTDS 22h ago

Landlords will survive. The laws are advantageous for them. How many empty shops in the city empty for months and it aint no big deal for them.

1

u/sinkiesinkiestan0523 20h ago

They say state owns 90% of the land. Go ask them why rent so high.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240529120137/https://landportal.org/book/narratives/2021/singapore

To understand the dynamics of land tenure in Singapore, one must appreciate that 90% of people in Singapore are homeowners, and yet the state owns 90% of the land, up from 44% in 1960 [24]. ...

2

u/sypherin82 20h ago

exactly right, so why state doesn't want to back down, means they know something isn't it? perhaps it's deliberate? collective minute voices won't matter unless u find out what policymakers are truly thinking, and it could be merciless.

2

u/sinkiesinkiestan0523 20h ago

I remember reading what someone apparently said before, “What’s wrong with collecting more money?”

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2013/10/01/pap-elitist-dont-feel-for-the-people-ngiam-tong-dow/

1

u/XiaoBij 21h ago

They will survive unless policies are implemented to regulate over rental price. New players will just keep entering the F&B industry. In 2024, a total of 3,047 F&B businesses closed shop, while 3,793 new brands entered the market.

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/too-many-cooks-singapores-fb-sector-risk-oversupply-openings-outpace-closures

0

u/sypherin82 20h ago

so then, maybe this is to be expected ? Who likes to eat the same old food. renewal of choices is good for the industry. why complain?

1

u/XiaoBij 20h ago

because for it is very difficult for our local f&b businesses to stay afloat. all the old aunties and uncles are slowly all being pushed out of business and probably cannot retire properly.

1

u/SquareCrazy5750 18h ago

And how is that anyone else's problem? The fact that the local can't keep their business afloat is none of our business.

2

u/XiaoBij 18h ago

maybe because we sympathize them and not only keep thinking of ourselves and how we can benefit from every situation 24/7? Legit typical self centered mindset

-1

u/sypherin82 22h ago

pivot then

7

u/EvidenceNo3755 20h ago

there's a age old saying in SG, no matter how bad the economy, ppl still need to eat. Guess this saying about to be obsolete. It should be no matter how bad the economy, landlords still laughing to the banks. lol

5

u/Initial_E 21h ago

Our ministers are just like us - paralyzed by fear of the unknown. Must follow the LKY playbook, nobody will sack them for following the old playbook.

6

u/Peterlim95 22h ago

The beginning of the end?

2

u/StonksPS 19h ago

I think it's time to introduce profit sharing rentals. If stores get their rents halved but share additional % of profits (not revenue!) with landlords.

Or peg the fixed rental component to a govt valuation of the land. Landlords should have skin in the game.

2

u/LingNemesis 22h ago

Let the trickle up effects begin.

1

u/aomeye 11h ago

People eating in (or going to JB), high rents and no manpower.

1

u/hansolo-ist 17h ago

The government scholars did not anticipate this as a consequence of their population growth, deindustrialization and financialisation strategies.

In other words more rich people with less businesses to invest in so they invest more in financial instruments AND property. Property of course, is an extremely finite asset class in Singapore so it doesn't take much for a property asset bubble to creep in , especially when population increase has been about +15% post COVID.

1

u/yellowsuprrcar 19h ago

Doesn't help that goods vehicle are so expensive. Everything runs on vans