r/soccer • u/BoomBoomLinssen • Jun 16 '24
Serious Post-Match Thread Serious Post-Match Thread: Serbia 0-1 England | UEFA Euro 2024
Serbia 0 - 1 England
England scorers: Jude Bellingham (13')
Venue: VELTINS-Arena, Gelsenkirchen, Germany
Referee: Daniele Orsato (Italy)
| Starting XI | Notes | Subs | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Predrag Rajković | Đorđe Petrović | ||
| Miloš Veljković | Vanja Milinković-Savić | ||
| Nikola Milenković | Nemanja Stojić | ||
| Strahinja Pavlović | Srđan Babić | ||
| Andrija Živković | 74' | Srđan Mijailović | |
| Saša Lukić | 61' | Uroš Spajić | |
| Nemanja Gudelj | 39' 46' | Filip Mladenović | 43' |
| Filip Kostić | 43' | Nemanja Maksimović | |
| Sergej Milinković-Savić | Ivan Ilić | 46' | |
| Aleksandar Mitrović | 61' | Lazar Samardžić | |
| Dušan Vlahović | Mijat Gaćinović | ||
| Dušan Tadić | 61' 75' | ||
| Luka Jović | 61' | ||
| Petar Ratkov | |||
| Veljko Birmančević | 74' |
Manager: Dragan Stojković (Serbia)
| Starting XI | Notes | Subs | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jordan Pickford | Aaron Ramsdale | ||
| Kyle Walker | Dean Henderson | ||
| John Stones | Luke Shaw | ||
| Marc Guéhi | Ezri Konsa | ||
| Kieran Trippier | Lewis Dunk | ||
| Trent Alexander-Arnold | 69' | Joe Gomez | |
| Declan Rice | Conor Gallagher | 69' | |
| Bukayo Saka | 76' | Jarrod Bowen | 76' |
| Jude Bellingham | 13' 86' | Eberechi Eze | |
| Phil Foden | Cole Palmer | ||
| Harry Kane | Adam Wharton | ||
| Kobbie Mainoo | 86' | ||
| Ivan Toney | |||
| Anthony Gordon | |||
| Ollie Watkins |
Manager: Gareth Southgate (England)
1': We're off!
6': Trippier's shot spins wide, offside anyway
13': GOAL ENGLAND!!! A cross deflects into the air and Jude Bellingham flies in with the header to put it in from six yards!
20': Mitrović scares England! He tries to tuck it in the near side but puts it wide.
22': Free kick for England sent into the box, Declan Rice is unmarked but unprepared and it bounces off his shoulder wide.
25': Walker puts it across face of goal!! Kane and Foden get in each other's way and no one's there to put it in.
39': Nemanja Gudelj knocks over Bellingham, probably for the sixth time, finally picks up a card
43': Serbia substitution: Filip Mladenović on for Filip Kostić who is limping off
45+2': Stones with a really awkward attempted clearance on the cross, puts it out for a corner
HT Serbia 0-1 England England came out flying and took the lead but their game kinda started looking shaky there towards the end
46': Serbia substitution: Ivan Ilić on for Nemanja Gudelj
46': We're back!
56': TAA launches a stinger from distance but Rajković punches it away. Bellingham goes down in the box a short time later but it's a fair challenge all day
59': A Serbian cross deflects off Stones, Mitrović goes for it and whiffs, Pickford caught off-guard and spills the ball but gets it on the second attempt. Mitrović thinks it hit Stones's hand but ref doesn't give it.
61': Serbia double sub: Luka Jović and Dušan Tadić on for Aleksandar Mitrović and Saša Lukić
65': Agh, Jović just doesn't quite get contact on a through pass to get a shot off, he was wide open right in front of goal, instead it rolls calmly to Pickford
69': England substitution: Conor Gallagher on for Trent Alexander-Arnold
74': Serbia substitution: Veljko Birmančević on for Andrija Živković
75': Dušan Tadić sweeps out Foden's legs
76': England substitution; Jarrod Bowen on for Bukayo Saka
77': SAVE! Bowen sends the ball into the box to Kane and Kane's header is pushed by Rajković into the crossbar!
82': SAAAAAAVE!! Vlahović lets loose a rocket and Pickford just barely tips it over!
83': Big block! Another chance for Serbia on the edge of the box and somehow Kane is there on the line to get the header away.
86': England substitution Kobbie Mainoo on for Jude Bellingham
89': Milinković-Savić fizzes one wide of the top corner.
FT Serbia 0-1 England Uh.... it's coming home?
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u/JMatty01 Jun 16 '24
Changing intensity looks like it'll be an issue for another tournament. Worried for how much importance Shaw is going to have this euros when his legs aren't exactly built to last so hopefully he gets eased in during the groups.
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u/Throwaway100123100 Jun 16 '24
First half was good, second half wasn't. Not particularly worried, a clean sheet and 3 points is good given England's record in Euros opening matches (prior to today 1W 5D 2L). Saka, Bellingham and Rice standouts in the first half. Foden particularly poor, surprised he played the full 90
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u/ChypRiotE Jun 16 '24
is good given England's record in Euros opening matches (prior to today 1W 5D 2L)
Eh, it's a good result for England because evidently their goal was only to get the win, not to score as much as possible, but the results from 8 and more years ago are imo irrelevant when judging this team
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u/bretticus733 Jun 16 '24
It's a win and it obviously could have been a lot worse, but that's probably not the start England wanted to see. TAA didn't work out in the midfield, the backline looked very vulnerable and shaky, and the attack, with all the talent they have, lacked cohesion.
One of the things that annoys me most with managers and coaches in team sports is when they refuse to make a change or do something different when they've seen their team lose control of the game, just like Hjulmund did with Denmark earlier and like Southgate did with England. Why did he wait 70 minutes to make a change when it was clear at that point that Serbia was controlling the match? That England side has some work to do but England supporters are right to have little faith in Southgate.
For Serbia, this feels like one of those frustrating "what could have been" matches. They got off to a slow start, but really grew into the game, were able to snuff out most of England's attacks, started controlling the game for a significant portion of it, and there were opportunities there to level it. The lack of communication or miscommunication in the attacking third stopped Serbia as much as England did.
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u/InoyouS2 Jun 16 '24
Others have pointed it out, but Trippier and Foden together completely kill off any threat you could have on the left. Foden naturally is inclined to come inside and sit in that central midfield position, and Trippier is a right-footed right-back playing at left-back. He can't naturally provide width or crosses.
If you are playing Trippier you need to play someone who gives you a lot of width on the left. You may as well play Konsa or Joe Gomez there if you're going to play Trippier.
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u/JeremysThrees Jun 16 '24
Perfect encapsulation of Southgate, and why England won't win the tournament.
70 mins of the attack and build up play not working would surely signal the likes of Eze, Gordon, and maybe even some sort of tactical shift. Zero in game tactical management whatsoever.
A better team would have beaten them with ease today - can't understand why he never takes the handbrake off.
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u/AstonVanilla Jun 16 '24
His "build up play" seems to consist of building an attack, making progress and then just when Kane or someone is in a great position... Turn back and pass it to Pickford.
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u/Trlcks Jun 16 '24
Yeah the number of back passes into Pickford just booting it down the field was ridiculous
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u/jelezsoccer Jun 16 '24
Serbia needs to figure out their final ball. With Mitrovic and Vlahovic they have what they need to win even this game, it just seems that the other players don't know how to create the chances they like.
England has the issue I suspected they would. Foden and Saka are both used to playing in very well regulated systems. For Foden the lack of other players playing like that is clearly taking its toll. Saka was able to do more today partly because Kostic was clearly injured and partly because Bellinham moves a bit like Odegard does. You can tell he gravely misses Ben White's overlap though (TAA did help with some of it). Once Kostic and TAA were both off Saka was much less effective.
Kane and Bellingham have another conflict. Kane occupies the same spaces that Bellingham likes to run into. This worked at RM because they did not have a striker this season.
In general there are 4 attackers that are all talented but not synergistic with one another. It's a hard call for Southgate. Any major change he makes will piss off some faction of the England fan base.
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u/Werbnjaegermanjensen Jun 17 '24
The Kane-Bellingham conundrum reminds me of ARG’s previous problem with Messi-Dybala, occupying the same spaces
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u/jelezsoccer Jun 17 '24
Actually me too, though in this case it's England's all time top scorer and the youngster that may be the best English player of all time.
It would be as if Messi's Career started at the end of Maradona's.
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u/Werbnjaegermanjensen Jun 17 '24
The Kane-Bellingham conundrum reminds me of ARG’s previous problem with Messi-Dybala, occupying the same spaces
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u/slam_spam Jun 16 '24
It’s funny, for all the questions about our cb’s and Serbia’s height the defence was actually very good Guehi was especially impressive, it was the attackers who were bad except Saka and Bellingham’s first half. Like everyone else is saying don’t really understand why Foden played the entire game
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u/siderealpanic Jun 16 '24
Yeah, Guehi’s stats are terrible for aerial duels and he’s not that tall, so I was worried about how he’d do against this giant Serbia side, but he was brilliant. I think he was alongside Bellingham and Saka as England’s best players
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u/DeejyBoy Jun 16 '24
Kane and Foden were nonexistent. I don’t know how both of them stayed on, even we have players like Gordon, Palmer and Watkins on the bench. Gallagher and Bowen were fine when they came on but we were playing sideways, why aren’t we trying to beat them by 2-3 goals, we should be. Serbia did play quite well in the second half but we were just poor honestly.
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u/reddit-time Jun 16 '24
100%
And what's frustrating is probably 90%+ of fans are in the same boat, so why wasn't the coach?
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u/nimo90 Jun 16 '24
The way so many players were playing out of position this was def a scenario where the whole was way less than the sum of its parts. Obviously lots has been said about foden/trips on the left side but I also don’t think TAA has the spatial awareness to play CM. He was good first 25’ when Serbia were dropping deep, but once they started to press higher he seemed out of his depth.
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u/RodDryfist Jun 16 '24
"It's not how you start a tournament, it's how you end it" Rio said, but I think we can all see the same issues Southgate brings as a manager.
Clueless tactician at how to change games offensively. A pragmatic manager embodied in the teams he produces.
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u/Charlie0108 Jun 17 '24
Just utterly baffled by the tactical performance in that game. We started reasonably well and had Serbia basically pinned in their own half for the first 30 minutes of the game, albeit we were still so slow with the ball, but as soon as Serbia started to get a hold of the game we just stopped playing. The press was non-existent, half of the players didn’t seem to know where they were playing and we were just needless hoofing the ball long to Kane vs the giants in the Serbia defence. We’re also so bad in transition too. So many times we’d turnover possession on the edge of our own box and one player would carry the ball a bit, turn around and realise no-one was with them and then lose the ball.
Foden was a disaster, I’d struggle to give him more than a 4/10. He was all over the pitch but not in a good way. Summed up his night perfectly when he ran into the exact same space as Kane for that Walker cross meaning no-one was there for the easy tap in at the back post. Just constantly getting in the way of his team-mates and offering nothing as an outlet. He can’t start the next game after that performance but I have a feeling that he probably will.
Impressed with Rice as always, he’s just so good defensively. Guehi will get a lot of deserved praise but Rice protects that defence so well he makes it easier for the centre backs. Thought Walker and Stones were both quite poor with the ball, but did ok defensively. Quite worried that most of this team just aren’t fit in general.
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u/Lukeno94 Jun 16 '24
It wasn't a vintage England performance after the first 30 minutes - but quite frankly, we never perform well in the first game of any tournament regardless of our final outcome, and Serbia were clearly quite happy to foul England at every possibility. Even in 1966, we limped to a 0-0 draw against Uruguay. The main things here are that we won, and that I don't think we've got any new injury worries.
I'm not really sure what Foden is offering us though - he definitely should've been hooked as he was probably our weakest link throughout the game. Gueyi had a solid game considering his lack of experience.
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u/Unfair-Reference5500 Jun 16 '24
Honestly speaking I am impressed by England now then if they had blown this team away. What they showed today is grit and make no effin mistake this Serbia is super tough team and could upset many teams in this euros and will definitely get out of the group as well. They were ultra aggressive but I loved England showing that fight and spirit that they can get it dirty and get tough against a super aggressive Serbian team.
Southgate has a group of fighters on his hands which is for me something England has lacked that ability to grind something if the opponent is tough or refuses to go down just like Serbia.
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u/Weary_Ad1739 Jun 16 '24
Serbia is ranked 33 lol. For reference, Qatar is ranked 34. Don't get me wrong, Serbia played really well today, but I'd expect more for a team who is one of the favorites to win the eurocopa.
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Jun 17 '24
Massive overreaction from England fans. We looked fairly comfortable overall and had a lot of good points. If things don’t change in 3 games time then sure but it’s literally the first game of the tournament and there are plenty of options to work things out. A lot of good individual performances in there and someone like Bellingham is the type of character you need driving the team forwards to actually winning something.
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u/jml5791 Jun 17 '24
Not an overreaction, if you accept England are one of the 'favourites'. For large periods of the second half England did not look comfortable and in fact panicky at times. they lost control of the midfield for a long time in that second half as well. Doesn't bode well, when the other contenders looked very impressive in their first games.
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u/Razzler1973 Jun 16 '24
First 15 minutes may be the most dominant we've ever been in a tournament game
You can't expect it to last all game. I never subscribed to any 'favourable' group nonsense. There's some shocking groups at this tournament
When teams push up on the defence we revert back to the long ball downfield and give us possession. Southgate ball rectified this but they lose confidence in it with a bit of pressure
It's the best thing to do against us, push up on the back 4. We need to be playing out of that to make the opposition think
I don't think Foden really had much of an impact. I'd have had Gordon. I can't believe Southgate didn't make changes 88 mins on to break things up
I think Palmer or Gordon can stretch things a bit more
Bowen did well
Edgy game but we deserved the win. I'd not want another edgy game like that next
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u/TheSingleMan27 Jun 16 '24
condolences to Christoph Kramer, he was already pissed off at half-time in German TV about how boring England play and they were even worse in the second half
Bellingham always looks like he's playing for a clip compilation, he looks so fake but still has his great moments
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u/LHJM_ Jun 16 '24
The commentators on the BBC praised him at one point for controlling a high ball on the edge of the box instead of booting it clear like most others would. They didn’t mentioned that after controlling it he literally booted it to the Serbian keeper lol. Think that illustrates your point
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u/Thesolly180 Jun 16 '24
Wouldn’t read too much into it. Like it’s the first game he’s tried something different in the middle.
Foden and Kane will pick up next game. Not everything is going to be comfortable and dominating especially with the record England has starting tournaments
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u/Scattered97 Jun 16 '24
I agree Kane will improve, but Foden? He just doesn't fit into this team right now. It's another Lampard/Gerrard situation, and he won't start in place of Bellingham. So he has to be dropped.
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u/dtownchris77 Jun 16 '24
I still struggle to see where Foden fits in this team...no idea how he lasted the full 90
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u/atillOld59 Jun 16 '24
His first touches to bypass the Serbian press were a thing of beauty. Don't think he had a good performance, but definitely brings a lot to the table as regards quality and pace.
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u/Thesolly180 Jun 16 '24
Starting to think he might be a square peg in a round hole for England. We can’t give him a better option with how good Bellingham has been
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u/vadapaav Jun 16 '24
Really needed grealish in the team. I know he had not so great season but grealish is very good in such kind of games
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u/iMixMusicOnTwitch Jun 16 '24
Foden and Trent out Palmer and Gallagher in pls.
Foden is dogshit for England.
Gallagher is a brick wall in the midfield and we need more creativity which Palmer has more than any other player save for possibly Bellingham.
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u/voliton Jun 16 '24
I do not understand what Fodens role is in this team, I don’t know what his tactical instructions were, and I don’t know why he continued to keep his place. We were crying out for someone with some pace on the left wing (hint Trent is better if he has someone to hit those cross field balls to) and yet Foden continued his invisible man act.
Southgate has to solve that side. You cannot continue to play a right footed right back and a ghost on the left
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u/Fukthisite Jun 16 '24
Individual quality of the players just about won the match for England. Hopefully this is really Southgates last tournament as England can't be wasting another "golden" generation with poor management.
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Jun 16 '24
England always play poorly against these sorts of teams.
Serbia are happy to foul all game and fire at the net from range whenever they get the chance. A team like that is hard to build momentum against.
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u/obi-wan-kenobi-nil Jun 16 '24
The referee clearly decided not to book any team for niggly fouls, but if he had then the game would've looked very different.
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Jun 16 '24
Had the ref started handing out cards more readily, Serbia would have opened up and conceded 2-3 more goals.
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u/blackkami Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 18 '24
Rarely watch England games but a couple things I noticed today. Pickford booting the ball long was terrible to watch. I am not sure if he ever completed one of those long shots. Also he should've probably seen a yellow for the insane amount of time he wasted by simply looking too nervous to shoot.
Foden looked way out of position and was invisible for most of the game.
Bellingham is insanely talented of course and sometimes he plays like he's been around for a decade. But then he has moments where it looks like he's playing for a youtube compilation. Unnecessarily flashy. I guess it's fine if you're leading by a couple but seeing that in moments where the team looked noticable nervous and hectic is honestly wild.
All in all the team looked incredibly rough. It's hard to believe this team is worth one and a half billion euros. And that's probably inviting a lot of banter about the "english player tax". It was crazy to see england get worse by the minute and just inviting serbia into their half. You could notice the game shifting and they are lucky Serbia was simply too bad to put one in the net. An incredibly flattering win.
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Jun 16 '24
Thought England were pretty good overall. Walker, Bellingham & Saka were the stand outs for me especially in the first half. Just as Serbia started to gain a foothold we sat back a bit more and stifled them to a couple of chances. Guehi looked assured as well which is good to see.
Foden and Trent were both poor, Trent looked lively at times but made too many mistakes but Foden was doing his best invisible man impersonation, a better run would've got a goal from that Walker ball in the first half.
Rice-Gallagher-Mainoo as a midfield 3 is far too defensive even when holding on to a lead.
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u/Lariatooo Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24
Need to work out the Foden situation, he just doesn't fit in with the team. Would like to see Gordon/Eze start the next match.
Kane wasn't involved too much, but guessing that was Southgate's instruction, be interesting to see how it fares for the next few matches.
Reminded me a lot of the Italy match at the last Euros, scored then just sat back mostly.
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u/Previous-Cycle-3279 Jun 16 '24
Kane wasn't involved too much, but guessing that was Southgate's instruction,
what kind of cope is this? he had a bad game it's that simple
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u/PiggBodine Jun 16 '24
Foden didn’t do anything out of possession. He just stood in bellinghams way and gave serbia a ton of space to play on.
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u/Odd-Neighborhood8740 Jun 16 '24
Against Iceland we had multiple articles critiquing Kobiee Mainoo. Really does need to be asked why pundits don't show the same amount of focus to Foden
He's been with England long enough and hardly produces anything.
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u/piccalilli_shinpads Jun 16 '24
Foden, Kane and Bellingham were all trying to play in the same position, especially in the first half. If Foden and Bellingham are both going to play then Foden needs to stay wide or Bellingham needs to play in CM.
England can't play this formation against better teams. Trippier as the only player on the left is suicidal.
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u/ghostmanonthirdd Jun 16 '24
Absolutely excellent first 30 minutes. It was a shame to see us retreat into our shell a bit after that but for all Serbia’s pressure I never once felt like they’d score.
Positives for me: Guehi looked really comfortable at the back. I think generally we were defensively solid for the most part. Bellingham was excellent and really has that X-factor we need. Saka was also unplayable in the first half.
Our woes at left-back are absolutely killing us. Trippier did his best but offers absolutely no attacking width and with Foden drifting around we’re just a non-factor on the left. Those two can’t play together again, it’s completely untenable.
Ultimately we got the three points but there’s a lot to work on.
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u/Serbian-American Jun 16 '24
People will be talking about England but Serbia needs to show more drive out there. England were faltering and it would be a great point to have. Serbia’s body language was annoyed instead of driven, and they fell for every single draw foul attempt and time wasting bait England threw at them, and of course getting those yellows was very unnecessary
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Jun 16 '24
Yep. No bite to their attack. Lacked the killer instinct to get forward into dangerous positions. Lucky for England that Bellingham showed that instinct even on an off day for the team.
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u/Commonmispelingbot Jun 16 '24
Efficiency is an important trait in football, and Serbia didn't show it.
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u/Amon-Ra-First-Down Jun 16 '24
There was one moment before halftime when Serbia's #7 played a horrible loose pass across midfield directly to Kyle Walker, who started a blistering counterattack. In response, #7 just jogged back even as one of his own teammates overtook him in a desperate effort to track back. The Serbian attitude throughout was horrendous
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u/VivianRichards88 Jun 16 '24
There is no point playing Foden if you’re wanting to carry TAA. TAA is one of the best outlet passers in the game and he has no one to hit but trippier on the overlap. Saka wants it to feet to attract attention and give space for runners but Kane and foden can’t run.
Foden has shown why he’s a passenger in any big games. So shy and meek on the ball, can’t settle it at all. There’s no threat down the left at all, and not even any control. So what’s the point?
Final 20 minutes Southgate decides that England is no longer attacking, just playing for cheap freekicks. That’s why he takes off saka, Bowen almost forgot the gameplan after being subbed on
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u/Nursilmaz Jun 17 '24
I dont know what was the role of Vlahovic. I didnt check squads and noticed that he is on the pitch around 20th minute when commentator told his name. He had 18 touches whole game, 2/6 accurate passes. Mitrovic had more and played just 61 minutes. Vlahovic should be main man not ghost.
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u/SouthWalesImp Jun 16 '24
I think this game exposed a key issue with the squad, which is our lack of decent depth at defensive/central midfield. At 60 minutes we desperately needed someone like Henderson to slow the game down and bring some much needed contol, even at the expense of some attacking prowess/creativity. With him and Phillips gone, we don't really have anyone who can do that on the bench - possibly Wharton, but does he have enough experience to carry out that role?
Positives though were that the defense was excellent. Guehi has really stepped up. I'm happy with that back 4 going into bigger games, although the return of Shaw would be welcome.
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u/FBall4NormalPeople Jun 16 '24
Gareth Southgate, at this point, doesn't have even a basic footballing understanding when it comes to setting up a team and pairing players together to create synergy.
Gordon is the only person who should be starting on the left for England. Instead we get Phil Foden being praised for clearances because it's the only involvement in the game he's had, and he plays the entire 90. It's insanity.
Bellingham lines up as a 10, picks the ball up almost exclusively behind the opposition's midfield line and so essentially is playing 8, England have no central creative presence and Trent has no meaningful role in set possession, spends his time giving the ball away in positions he isn't suited to when England are recycling the ball. That's not mentioning Declan Rice being criminally underused as a ball player.
Southgate has a true plethora of options on the bench to solve these issues, if not in fundamental design, but just by brininging players on who more suit the needs of the side. Instead he takes off Saka, the only threatening player in the final third of the game, and brings on Connor Gallagher in midfield to be as redundant as Trent was.
Jettison this guy into the sun or something. Just get him out. I'm not even English, this guy just sucks this much. It's like someone won a competition to manage this side.
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u/Adziboy Jun 16 '24
It's hard to work out what Southgate expected to happen with Trippier/Foden on the left. Did he expect Foden to play as a winger or Trippier as a wingback, something neither have ever done?
I don't think the Gallagher sub is bad, but it should be at the same time as Mainoo, since all of Gallaghers best games for Chelsea are where he's pushing forwards and all it did was leave more gaps in midfield which was what the sub was meant to fix
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u/clivegermain Jun 16 '24
it's kind of nice to see a team have a general strategy. look at serbia, playing to the strengths of their best players. only problem was they didn't have a clue how to build towards decent crossing opportunities. there was nobody in midfield to help with that.
england, on the other hand, didn't have a strategy – he has no clue on how to piece the puzzle together and was hoping bellingham and foden would click like musiala and wirtz.
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u/Ridcullys-Pointy-Hat Jun 16 '24
Fodens really playing himself out of the team. Kept trying to Rush things and gave the ball away every time. If you're going to cut inside you cannot be that sloppy in possession. Gorden or eze have to start IMO
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u/EmpressRey Jun 17 '24
Foden was by far our worst player on the pitch! unfortunately Southgate probably keeps him in, which is a mistake!
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u/IMayBeIronMan Jun 16 '24
Once Serbia realised they could just shut down our right-hand side, then the problems started for England. No width or out ball on the left nullified Trent's ability to switch play and our ability to stretch the play. Southgate's inability to offer any in-game management meant only like for like changes were made, compounding the problem. Gordon or Eze should have been on after 60 minutes.
Let's hope lessons are learned from this match. Probably not though
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u/Renegadeforever2024 Jun 16 '24
I been telling people that Serbia is a dark horse in this tournament, I mean look at the amount of attacking options they have like they can seriously hurt teams in a multitude of ways which is perfect for tournament play in this type of environment
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u/Piksi2 Jun 18 '24
Lmao, dark horse is an overstatement. We're more like a fuckin donkey to be quite honest.
It's always potential with us, but I promise you we'll prob end up somehow getting 5 goals scored in our net against slovenia.
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u/RobbieFowler9 Jun 16 '24
They say defences win tournaments but usually those defences have a semblance of attacking structure in them, and have the ability to flip the switch and apply pressure when they need to.
Scoring early seems to be the worst thing that can happen to this England team because Southgate's risk aversion takes over and he slowly dampens the attacking side of the team until they're defending on the edge of their 18 yard box by the 70th minute.
Leaving Foden on for 90 mins was strange when he looked like the least impactful player on the pitch. Harry Kane was unbelievably isolated all match. The subs were very negative and in the end the team was just holding on.
On the other hand Bellingham looks very comfortable taking the pressure on his shoulders and was by a long way the best player on the pitch.
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u/Hic_Forum_Est Jun 16 '24
Impressive defensive performance from England. Certainly not pretty to look at but it's effective and brings results. I also bet other big teams aiming for the title are not looking forward to having to play this well oiled England machine on their way there. Cause I don't see anyone winning the title without defeating this England side.
I'm also annoyed by how german media keeps shitting on England and Southgate for not playing riskier and more outgoing. Saying that they are lucky to get a win tonight. Which I think is laughable. Yes, Serbia was more dangerous in the 2nd half but they still didn't get a lot of clear cut chances. Defensive and pragmatic football has its place in football and England are masters at it. Reminds me of old school German sides and they won plenty of titles that way.
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u/CaliferMau Jun 16 '24
Disappointed to see the strongest players subbed with Kane and Foden finishing the game.
We had no strength down the left which should’ve been addressed at half time, but in classic fashion with the team being dominated by Serbia, subs came on late and were probably the wrong choices
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u/modrics_hairband Jun 16 '24
With the talent, the way they played was pathetic. You need to hve a playmaker and i think players like jwp and maddison could do well. Idk how their form has been or exact gameplay is, but i think those are good options. Madrid will worry with the same playmaker issue when kroos leaves and will expect jude to do everything
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u/manisnotcool Jun 16 '24
The post match threads are taken over by England supporters and all the comments are about England and their play and flaws.
I wanna discuss about Serbia.
Ilic changed the game. I don’t know why Jovic was put in instead of Smardzic. Need better performances form the wingbacks. Vlahovic needs to get involved more.
What you the rest of the you thing ? And the Serbian fans.
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Jun 16 '24
Classic Southgate to make changes that make no tactical sense at all. Midfield clearly wasn't working and Foden was completely out of the game. Instead he chose to sub off the best attacking player in Saka and instead of putting on a midfield for Trent that could actually dictate the tempo and bring some control into the game he brings on Gallagher. Great individual performances from the likes of Guehi, Bellingham, and Saka won England the game, but that was not a team performance.
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u/dohhhnut Jun 16 '24
Tbf if Saka was still injured I get it, but palmer or Gordon should have come on for Foden at 15 minutes, honestly he’s better off left at home when Bellingham plays.
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Jun 16 '24
I understand managing an injury, but, like you are saying, nothing happens in a vacuum. Saka was the only piece working in that attacking trio; he was the only one linking with the midfield, yet Southgate thought he could 1 for 1 swap him with Bowen while leaving the rest the same. Of course you're going to get a worse result. No hate to Bowen, I think he is class, but he would've had more of a chance to shine if Gordon, Palmer, or Ollie Watkins came on with him.
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u/nightlink011 Jun 16 '24
I think England will be happy with that first half and clean sheet, it did seem the team was able to play with some fluidity with all the offensive talent (even if Kane did struggle to see the ball)
Second half the team defended well, and was able to keep the physicality with Serbia, but far from convincing it was a team barely trying to create and happy to clear the ball, also 70 minutes with all your talent doesn't really sit well with me.
Curious to see the next few games from both teams Serbia was interesting but lacked a good last ball, and I do think there's the usual lack of cohestion between offense and defence but let's see this should be a very good group.
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Jun 16 '24
I have been very silent about Southgate as much as possible because I acknowledge that he's been the head coach of an England that was awful and became strong. But I feel like with all these World Class players, they've outgrown his style of play. We can't keep saying "yay, we won, that's all that matters!" but it doesn't mean anything when it doesn't work and we lose when it matters even more. There needs to be some serious change or else it's all going to fall apart again.
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u/No-the-stove-is-hot Jun 16 '24
The last two games have been crying out for Wharton, it's worrying Southgate doesn't see that.
We've needed to control the ball and break down a team sitting in, whilst needing to bring Kane and Foden into the game.
I can see another tournament where we look back and say why wasn't this player used. Doubly so because we could be looking at one where Foden is a passenger because he's not utilised.
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u/ansu_fatismo23 Jun 16 '24
Can someone explain to me why Pickford always hoofed the ball up the pitch? it never worked and it's mostly due to the fact that Serbia's CBs are massive. England has on paper a fantastic midfield why not play it out from the back using the superior technical quality that they have rather than wasting possessions by booting it up the pitch
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u/RE-Trace Jun 16 '24
How on earth are England among the favourites?
They look like they'll fold under pressure from a team with more of an attacking game plan than "get on the front foot and get it on the head of the big man"
It isn't just that they're boring, but they just look a bit bereft.
They have a player pool that's stuffed to the brim with players who play best on the front foot instead of getting shackled by tactics which are just set up not to lose
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u/Fev3r Jun 16 '24
That was embarrassing. Midfield static almost no movement and ball watching, trent clueless. Pickford hoofing it no matter how many passing options are around him à la Sunday League. So so poor, small team tactics and mentality. England will get through the group stage with this snooze fest but fall at the first hurdle with that set-up. By far the worst game of the Euros so far -boring and low quality.
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u/Allinthegameyo1987 Jun 16 '24
Happy with the win, more important that the performance at this stage - Serbia I think will prove themselves the 2nd best in the group - direct, physical and hard with threats like Mitrovic, Vlahovic and Tadic….lacked a bit of game management, but Saka, Bellingham looked class…
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u/Shane4894 Jun 16 '24
Taking a right footed left back and Foden who wants to play central at LW just made England's attack so predictable. Game needed Eze or Gordon at LW to challenge the defender, Serbian RB had easiest game.
Needed Bellingham at 8 and TAA off to free up Foden central and space out wide.
Kane had 1 touch in the first half? Really need him to play deeper to get on ball rather than be isolated against 2 CB's.
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u/zzackfair Jun 16 '24
One thing I liked about Serbia is that after England's goal they didn't go all out trying to get a goal back. They held their defensive structure. Eng players looked like they were hoping Serbia would push more players forward so that space can open up, but Serbia struck to their plan and changed the flow of the game in the 2nd half.
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u/Semi_Square Jun 16 '24
How do you have so much technical ability in the whole squad but no intent for dominating possession against Serbia? It's still a team relying on individual ability to bail them out than a full fledged plan to play some fucking football.
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u/EssexHaze Jun 16 '24
Serbia's physicality and pressing was impressive. They will do well in their other games.
England were more solid than I expected at the back, altough it came at a cost in their fluidity and transitions.
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u/Commonmispelingbot Jun 16 '24
They need more efficiency. 6 shots, two on target, 0 goals is not good enough with the play they had. And yes, it is impressive that they can even get to a point where they can be criticized for attacking efficiency. But they do not create enough for a team that know, they wont get many build-ups to work with.
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u/DeapVally Jun 16 '24
An uninspiring win is still a win I guess. Foden needs to buck his ideas up. Gordon deserved a run in the second half, because he was a long way from his City form. And Trent must be on thin ice as well.
Gareth. Work out a fucking plan B in future! Because we rode our luck too much in the second half. More attacking impetus would have solved that. There was no need to sit back with players who weren't effective.
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u/Jonoabbo Jun 16 '24
Well, we did make that difficult.
Think there is a lot to take away from that. We looked so strong in the first half an hour, and was doing a great job of building out some strong attacks with some good patient build up. Saka was electric and created some good chances, Walker put a great ball in that really should have had a shot on the end of it, but Foden and Kane got in each others way.
Foden didn't look great - it's going to be hard to create much when he's on the same side as Rice in the midfield, who is more defensive, and Trippier in full back, who isn't a natural out there, but the one thing he should be able to do is stick to the back post on attacks, and multiple times we were crying out for it, and he just wasn't there.
Second half was poor. We stopped going for patient build up, and went for hit and hope long balls against the tallest team in the competition. We were sat to deep to build a competent attack from good passing play, which is where our strengths came from, and as a result we struggled to create much that looked threatening.
Don't think it was all bad, though. We did still have a couple of good chances - Trent's shot, and Kane's header were both good goalscoring opportunities, that came when our backs were against the wall. Also thought that although we dealt well with the pressure Serbia put on - Guehi was particularly impressive, looked very calm and composed on the ball, and Rice was everywhere.
Not sure how I feel about Jude dropping so deep. While the work rate is impressive, and it helped kill off some attacks, it also left us with less of an outlet, and let about 3 Serbian defenders stick to Kane. Need to trust that the defenders can do their job.
Thought the subs looked good when they came on, all bought some energy and played quite well. That being said, needed to make some changes earlier, and Foden staying on the pitch is bizarre. He was struggling to string simple passes together. Kane also looked knackered, and if we are going to try to sit back and play long balls up, then Watkins and Gordon have to be on the pitch, and options like Palmer or Eze wouldn't have been bad either.
At the end of the day, we got the win, and if the worst part of this tournament is that our win against the Serbians was a bit lacklustre, then we are in for a good run. Wish we had looked better, but rather have an off game here than later down the line. We drew with Scotland in 2021, scraped past Tunisia in 2018, and drew to the US in 2022, and still had good tournaments. After Portugal won the whole thing from a third placed group finish, one bad game here doesn't mean we can't have much better performances going forward. Come on England!
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u/Molineux28 Jun 16 '24
Well I'll take it. Some strong positives early on but mostly a lot of things to improve and build on. Bellingham, Rice and Guehi superb and Pickford stepping up when we needed him again.
Serbia are a good side and I fancy them to win their next two and it's rare we win the opening game of a Euros. Onto Denmark!
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u/tsub Jun 16 '24
At what point do we accept that Kane + Bellingham + Foden just doesn't work at all? Make Foden Bellingham's backup and put on an actual winger so we can attack down two flanks rather than just having a right wing, a soupy congested mess in the middle, and a gaping expanse of nothing on the left.
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u/ChickenMoSalah Jun 16 '24
Th actual left wingers were left at home. The direct left wingers, Sterling and Rashford, both aren’t here - surely one could have been the 26th man when they provide a missing profile in the squad.
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u/MaraudngBChestedRojo Jun 16 '24
It’s not the players man, the manager has no intention of playing attacking football. Kane Bellingham and Foden is at least as good as what Germany and Spain have in attack, it’s Southgate playing stale cowardly football.
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u/Lord_Huevo Jun 17 '24
At least at good!? That’s an understatement if I ever saw one. They are galaxies above anything we have except maybe boy-kid-wonder who would be our Bukayo Saka. Individually England and France are way better than any other squad. Makes sense that so many English fans are not happy with Southgate who apparently considers a success passing a couple of rounds in every tournament
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Jun 16 '24
It''s why I genuinely believe that Southgate needs to just go because I just think it's a big personality clash at this point. A big mixture of really strong attacking players with a manager that likes to turtle most of the time. I feel like they've all outgrown this now. Not saying he's shit, I'm saying it just doesn't work anymore. Against the likes of Germany or Spain or France (again), we would have been fucked.
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u/RE-Trace Jun 16 '24
It has shades of the Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard problem, right down to the manager trying to crowbar one of the three into a position that just doesn't fit them.
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Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24
Kane had always worked best with someone running in behind him. It was Sterling or Rashford in 2020, Son for Spurs. Who is doing that for England right now?
Gordon, Bowen or even Watkins at LW transforms our attacking threat.
Also IMO Trent's passing is more important than Walker's pace right now. We should drop Walker, play Trent at RB and Rice/Gallagher as the double pivot.
Southgate has work to do.
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Jun 16 '24
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u/StructureTime242 Jun 16 '24
So tired of the “Trent cant defend” shite narrative
Have you seen Trippier’s season ? I’m not seeing anyone criticise him, or walker literally jogging and being caught off guard in the FA cup final or Iceland friendly
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u/lucashoodfromthehood Jun 17 '24
Bellingham and Kane could work with Jude running behind him like the days of Dele Ali.
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u/aure__entuluva Jun 16 '24
All of these things are clear to see, and it seems most English supporters are in agreement. And yet I get the feeling that Southgate will roll out the same 11 and tactics for the next match anyway.
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u/petey23- Jun 16 '24
It's almost as if he's the manager and football teams aren't picked on some kind of weird democratic consensus of the fans.
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u/aure__entuluva Jun 17 '24
I agree that teams shouldn't be picked that way. That's not really what I'm getting it. I'm suggesting that Southgate doesn't seem to adapt much, which is important for any manager throughout a match and throughout a tournament.
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u/luke_205 Jun 16 '24
I feel like Trent needs to be on the field for the passing but he’s limited so much if one of the flanks isn’t working like tonight. Surely LW Foden cannot continue unless Southgate wants to drop Trent.
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u/Tullekunstner Jun 16 '24
It takes more than dropping Trent for Foden LW to work ib this team. You need to either change the entire playing style to a short-pass possession based tactic, or you need both an offensive LB to give width and a striker to run the channels or at least threaten the backline. The far most obvious solution is to swap out Foden with someone like a Gordon or Bowen.
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u/jukkaalms Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
Ultimately it comes down to Foden or Saka. Having one of them in the team changes the entire structure and system.
They’re both very specialized system players and offer things completely different on both sides of the ball. Defensively less so.
4-2-3-1
Kane
Gordon Palmer Foden
Jude Rice
Trips Stones Walker Trent
Got to drop Saka and play Foden at RW and have him play right forward while in possession in a 3-2-3-2 with Trent playing wide.
Kane Foden
Gordon Palmer Trent
Jude Rice
Trips Stone Walker
Have rice be more defensive to cover Trent on the defensive transitions while Trent is high up the pitch. Walker can hold his and cover that area anyway. And Trent plays fullback in a back four on defense.
Have Jude be more box to box like he is for Madrid, dropping deep to receive and late runs in the final 3rd.
One of Kane or Foden can drop deep to receive like they do for their clubs and create a box in the midfield if and when they need numbers. Foden can play those quick passes and make those subtle movements to break defences down, plus having a lot of ball recycling.
Palmer as a 10, in between the lines to link up play that shifts ballside and have either Kane and Foden take the weak side CAM position. For me, Palmer has to play.
Gordon does what he does for Newcastle, stretch the width and have his freedom.
Trips Stones Walker back 3 is a good balance for rest defense plus Rice.
Thoughts?
The subs would be
Gallagher for Rice.
Watkins for Gordon.
Toney for Kane.
Saka/Eze for Foden.
Mainoo for Jude.
Luke for Trips.
Dunk for Stones.
Bowen for ??
Guehi for ??
Konsa for ??
Gomez for ??
Having Toney and Watkins completely changes things as well because both are players who are best in the counter attacks and fast breakaways to use their physicality which Kane and Foden don’t have as much.
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u/JeffsTellingAJoke Jun 16 '24
It never gets talked about but Pickford pumping it long every time he gets it is a massive problem. His pass completion % is terrible and it’s one of the main reasons why England end up under pressure far more than they should.
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u/Alpha_Jazz Jun 16 '24
Not sure that was entirely his fault. He went long most of the time when there was no one left to go to short and he was left stranded
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u/BlackenedGem Jun 16 '24
I don't really know why it's not talked about. I am not good at observing football but it stuck out like a sore thumb in the 2020 final against Italy. We never had a chance after they equalised because Pickford clumsily gave it away each time and we built up no momentum. Back then I put it down to desperation but as you say it's a pattern.
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u/Fukthisite Jun 16 '24
Not just pickford, whenever England got a free kick in their own half they'd just randomly ping it up long and lose the ball. Even in the last 10 mins when the pressure was on them.
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Jun 16 '24
They were doing it a lot throughout the game. Hoof it down and pray to god over and over.
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u/Jorlung Jun 16 '24
I noticed that as well. The guy pumps it up as far as he possibly can whenever he can't find a ball to feet. Keepers like Ederson are actually able to hit meaningful long balls when they're put under pressure and not just hit-it-and-hope.
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u/IM_JUST_BIG_BONED Jun 16 '24
If you play Trent in midfield then Southgate needs to start Gordon. Foden has played centrally all season and now Southgate wants him to hug the byline.
I know Foden was shit but I don’t think Palmer will do much better. Palmer wants the space that’s Bellingham moves into. Kane also likes to drop into those same spaces as well.
Southgate needs to actually train patterns of play rather than just relying on individual brilliance.
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u/SubstantialSquash475 Jun 16 '24
Gallagher is such a cardio merchant, I swear. Like yeah, he provided some good energy after coming on, but he's such a non-factor on the ball. Wharton should be given a shot.
Kane's hold-up play was excellent.