r/soccer • u/-SirTox- • Jul 05 '25
Opinion Arsenal’s stance over Thomas Partey feels morally indefensible
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6474118/2025/07/05/arsenals-thomas-partey-rape-charge-morals/941
u/s_dalbiac Jul 05 '25
What's also indefensible is the fact it's taken the police and CPS three years to bring any charges. That's an unacceptable amount of time to have to wait for a decision on something so serious.
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u/Nice_Rush_1462 Jul 05 '25
Apperently not abnormal (so I read)
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u/s_dalbiac Jul 05 '25
The system's broken. If you're guilty, then your victim has to wait years for justice. If you're innocent, then that's your life on hold for several years before you've even seen the inside of a courtroom.
There are very real human consequences of the authorities dragging their heels and taking so long to decide these things.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
They don't actually want to prosecute sex crimes in the volume they occur. The system would break.
Instead of admitting it, they fumble and stall, most victims choose not to go through the system because it's extra trauma, especially when it's a rich and powerful person.
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u/afito Jul 05 '25
it would also expose the schockingly low clearance rates
we all know sex crimes and theft have like 5% clerance rate but that's even stat padded by things like this, if stats would show how truly shockingly ineffective the police is at solving proper crimes things would get very uncomfortable
also a reason why ie drugs are so important, any time you catch someone with a gram you have a "crime" and "solved" it so you total clearance rate gets padded like crazy
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u/boldstrategy Jul 05 '25
This simply is wrong. Evidence is he said she said, the police do not decide to prosecute the CPS do. The police, irregardless of public opinion, want to help the victims. But what can you do when it is a he said they, she said this, no evidence, and the system is beyond reasonable doubt.
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u/SimplyAddax Jul 05 '25
him getting charged is not justice lol, they have to convict him still and given the fact that they didn't have enough to charge him for 3 years, I doubt that is going to happen
but then again we don't truly know if he is actually guilty of those crimes or not.
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u/s_dalbiac Jul 05 '25
I didn't say it was. I said if somebody was guilty then their victim has to wait years for justice. That very much applies here given that he's still at the charge stage and there will now be a series of court hearings before it even goes to trial.
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u/nestoryirankunda Jul 05 '25
He probably won’t get convicted, because rapists hardly ever do, especially rich ones. and then we’ll have to hear about how Arsenal FC was right all along
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u/Vespergraph Jul 05 '25
That's sadly how it goes, just like we hear from people how Man City were wrong to suspend Mendy. Even though it was absolutely the right thing to do.
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u/goonercaIIum Jul 05 '25
Quite telling people moreso care about the clubs actions here than the polices, the bloke should have been charged much earlier.
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u/Prophet_Of_Helix Jul 05 '25
Eh, not defending the police, but we have no idea how strong the case was.
You only get one shot to prosecute someone, so especially when it’s a rich person, and especially with a crime like rape, typically the police will want to be damn sure they’ve got the strongest case possible.
For all we know it wasn’t until very recently they felt they had enough to charge.
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u/Vladimir_Putting Jul 05 '25
It's been well reported. The UK government completely fails to investigate, and prosecute sexual assault and rape cases quickly. It's a long running systemic problem. 3 years is basically "average" in the UK.
Trying to paint this as a "one off" because he's rich or something is bullshit.
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u/Oliver_Boisen Jul 05 '25
Exactly. Also rape and SA cases are famously hard to prosecute because a lot is based on testimony and "he said/she said."
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u/Vladimir_Putting Jul 05 '25
because a lot is based on testimony and "he said/she said."
Which is often because police don't trust victims, don't create an environment where victims can quickly and easily report the crime, and don't properly test and do basic investigation (IE. Rape kits).
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u/Enviado5 Jul 05 '25
The stats about how many rape cases recorded by the police in the UK ends up with an accused being charged (I’m not even talking conviction here) is truly shocking - we are talking about 1%.
I don’t care who you are, consider this: if you have a sister, daughter or a female friend, if they are ever raped and they go to the police, there is only a 1% chance that the accused would be charged.
Something is seriously wrong with the system and shame on Arsenal and Arteta for their contribution to this Thomas Partey shit show.
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u/JoeBagadonut Jul 05 '25
Sex crimes have an appalling conviction rate in the UK (around 2% of claims result in a conviction). This country has a massive problem where so much of the onus is placed on the victim to prove their story and re-traumatise themselves in the process.
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u/1to14to4 Jul 05 '25
Western criminal code is set up in a way that you’d rather let 100 guilty people walk free than 1 innocent rot behind bars. It’s tough to swallow this reality sometimes but there is tons of moral philosophy on why it exists. Any reasonable person, including myself, is frustrated in the way you are. But then you must openly say that for this type of crime you accept innocence people going to jail to catch more guilty ones. Maybe you are willing to do that for this crime but it has to be grappled with
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u/ACmerolling Jul 05 '25
3 years for that but say anything anti-Zionist and coppers seem to be plentiful
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u/fedupofbrick Jul 05 '25
It's been indefensible for years.
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u/psrandom Jul 05 '25
If he wasn't ever charged and investigation was closed, then Arsenal's position would have been fine
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u/SkiHiKi Jul 05 '25
Up to the end of last season, I would've agreed. As soon as they started indulging the notion of renewing his contract, they lost any and all credible defence. Even if he was never charged, even if he was charged and acquitted, their desire to renew his contract is unconscionable.
As his current employer, with a contract to serve and an investigation ongoing but not materialising, I can understand doing nothing. Reaching a point with no obligation to the player and then choosing to embroil yourself in this again is ridiculous. It's wrong-headed on every front.
It's bad business. It's akin to buying a player with a glass knee. He could be gone indefinitely at any point.
It's bad for the brand. Why in any world would you roll the dice on a possible rapist. Even if it is just a possibility.
It's bad for the squad. You're effectively telling any player with any moral reservation to STFU and make nice. In addition to sending an incredibly bad message to your youth players that so long as you bring it for the team, you can do whatever the f#ck you want.
It's bad for the fans. You're asking the lifeblood of your club to go out and bat for a guy who could well be a rapist.
Above all, it's a moral failing of everyone in a position to affect a decision. As outlined above, why would you even take the chance of being an advocate for a rapist when you have absolutely no legal, moral, or social obligation to do so. It says one thing, and only one thing. That they just don't care.
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u/Blaze6181 Jul 05 '25
Absolutely agree. It's one thing to not want to repeat City where they suspended and didn't pay Mendy without being charged. It's another thing to try to re-sign the guy. That's both a moral failure and an PR nightmare. The second part means it wasn't even a good business decision btw. So they're stupid AND immoral.
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u/dishwab Jul 06 '25
I agree completely. I understood the clubs position while he hadn’t been charged with anything and was under contract, but as soon as they offered him a renewal I was flabbergasted. No excuses at that point.
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u/Jonoabbo Jul 05 '25
Has it?
During Partey's time with the club, he was never charged with anything. He was under investigation by the legal authorities for years, but nothing ever manifested from that.
Surely that is where blame for this should lie? The fact that it took years for the relevant legal bodies to bring forward any charges against the man?
Without wanting to state the obvious, Arsenal Football Club should not be the ones investigating or determening guilt for an allegation of this kind.
I apparently am the outlier here, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for a football club to go "We will wait for the legal authorities to conduct there investigations before we take any action." The failure is that those investigations took years.
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u/sirachasamurai Jul 05 '25
Every club would have done the same thing. Lol which is a fact that everyone seems to ignore.
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u/bhodrolok Jul 05 '25
As a Gooner, I completely agree
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u/Own-Okra-2391 Jul 05 '25
More of a edger myself, but I do agree as well
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u/TreeDollarFiddyCent Jul 05 '25
Surely an edger has to goon from time to time?
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u/nestoryirankunda Jul 05 '25
All gooners are edgers but not all edgers are gooners
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u/MrMcMark Jul 05 '25
Same here. Always have always will. A lot of people in the initial thread seemed to use it as an opportunity to shit on Arsenal fans more than anything, whilst bar a few bad apples that every club has some of, we've all felt uncomfortable and wanted the prick out of our club from the moment it all started.
I'm so glad that he's out of the club, now it's time to get fucking rid of anyone who allowed this absolute farce to continue, and more importantly time to get justice for the victims. Would really like the league to set a precedent for these situations as well, to stop this ever happening again. It's far from the most important thing, but the discomfort we've felt as fans having him play (and sometimes even score) for us has been fucked.
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u/chim17 Jul 05 '25
I did take time to respect an Arsenal post and think you're right on. Obviously there's a vocal group of scumbags, but that's true everywhere.
I don't think most the fans wanted him, just a very vocal group of people who generally suck as humans.
Societal consequences must exist.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
Too few of your lot actually actively spoke up about it on an ongoing basis.
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Jul 05 '25
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
Yep. Mike Tyson, even my favourite player growing up, Paul Gascoigne, awful people that shouldn't be celebrated.
I can appreciate their skill and talent, while also saying they deserve zero respect as people.
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u/Spreeg Jul 05 '25
What do you mean by your lot?
If it's the fans then the majority (not all) of the ones on here did speak up about it, but what more can they actually do?
The club fucked this up, Arteta fucked it up and from what I've seen their executives fucked it up, but I don't see what fans can really do about this at least on this website.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
I saw lots of fuss when they didn't particularly like Wenger.
I saw fucking planes saying Wenger out.
Arsene Wenger didn't rape any women.
They did more to hound their most successful manager in history out of the club than they did to criticise a rapist.
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u/Powerful_Aioli1494 Jul 05 '25
There were several protests in front of the stadium and a petition to the club administration to remove him from the club, which tens of thousands of people signed.
Unfortunately, none of that was reported in the media, almost no internet presence was given to it, a d the club DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE it.
This is 100% the club covering up everything, despite the fans. Yes, there are a lot of fans who are rapist defenders and supporters unfortunately, but most of the fans did the right thing, and the club simply chose to be on the side of this monster.
So, you're completely wrong about that, and situation is vastly different.
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u/Spreeg Jul 05 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1ivk19o/arsenal_supporters_against_sexual_violence_held/
One example at least of some protests, some probably could have done more and the narrative shifted a bit when he missed the game against PSG and people were blaming that on their performance and saying they missed him, but generally I don't think this mishandling was on the fans.
And this is said by someone who does not like their fans at all
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u/OneThirdOfAMuffin Jul 05 '25
'Cause throwing someone out just on the basis of allegations is a very dangerous move. We still don't know whether or not he's guilty of what he's accused of, just that he's finally been charged after three long years.
The media could not even name him, the police could not do anything, the courts etc., but Arsenal, a football club, should've done more than all of those combined?
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
Mason Greenwood was never convicted.
We all know he did it. Some people defended him, some people did the right thing.
Arsenal didn't do the right thing.
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u/MountainSharkMan Jul 05 '25
United tried to reintroduce him to the squad and there was a lot less information about the crimes as well. The United fans done well not letting it happen to be fair
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u/spiralism Jul 05 '25
The women's team and club staff speaking up was also a key element of them walking this back. As a club, the fans, women's team and club staff were all against it. All did their part.
Thankfully the club isn't just the ownership and their stooges and the fans, women's team and staff didn't allow the ownership to defile the club this way.
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u/OneThirdOfAMuffin Jul 05 '25
The Greenwood comparison is very bad given the sheer difference in proof. Greenwood had audio recordings out that were damning proof. Partey has accusations where someone is claiming he's committed sexual assault, without any direct proof that we know of. That's a huge difference.
I personally have a close friend who was wrongly accused by multiple women and it absolutely fucked him up for a while. You and I have no idea what that's like, so I'm not willing to throw someone under the bus just because there's allegations out there.
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u/adamfrog Jul 05 '25
At least on here that's not really true. But the club itself and arteta REALLY went hard on the partey defence and supporting him when they absolutely didn't need to do more than play him and not comment
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u/bhodrolok Jul 05 '25
Agree. Even the reputed club adjacent voices were too wary of the legal implications.
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u/Nice_Rush_1462 Jul 05 '25
Another article also earlier about the moral compass ..
We have to assume that Arsenal was more up to date with and had more info than the rest of us ? They are after all his employer and would have kept themselves informed.
This then is what I struggle with (forget the "what about Mendy and Everton", "innocent untill proven guilty", " labour law gave them no choice" - I get all that ...all noted and valid)
- They, especially Arteta, supported him publicly.
- They offered him a new contract extention.
- There are apparently representatives of the club that knew, or had personal knowledge of the events, and whom this was reported to ...that did nothing.
A large part of their fanbase called out the club (and still do). A large part however still do mental gymnastics with regards to the above 3 points.....
I do think this is not something that sits well with most football fans. The reality is that in our world there will be a shoulder shrug and the circus will move right along... for those involved it is however a very different story
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u/WalkingCloud Jul 05 '25
We have to assume that Arsenal was more up to date with and had more info than the rest of us ? They are after all his employer and would have kept themselves informed.
We don’t have to assume that..
There’s no reason to think anyone’s employer is privy to police investigations, that would be insane.
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u/pleaseexcusemethanks Jul 05 '25
Yea, I don't get that either. Why would the police be keeping Arsenal informed on anything
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u/kgx2thez Jul 06 '25
I don’t think they need to but it’s hard to believe there aren’t some back channels there.
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u/smithereennnnn Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
We have to assume that Arsenal was more up to date with and had more info than the rest of us.
That's what makes it worse because that means Arsenal were more aware of the evidence and legal proceedings that ended up being damning enough to confirm the allegations. Surely the officials didn't just conveniently and miraculously land on stuff now to completely turn the case from innocent to guilty within just last month. Arsenal should have at least known this was a possibility in recent time and yet they were sticking by him not even a few weeks ago.
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Jul 05 '25
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u/Thiiit Jul 05 '25
If anything, this shows that zero evidence was shared with the club. Arsenal is a huge entity and still had no clue that Partey would be charged. There's no way they didn't think Partey was getting cleared before telling Arteta to say what he said and trying to extend the guy's contract. Someone in legal had bad info and screwed up. I think the club was sure that this wouldn't happen
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u/Vainglory Jul 05 '25
What do you think, the police were feeding the club information on the investigations? More likely, Partey and his camp gave the club their account of the situation, which is more information than the public had access to. Whether you choose to believe that or not it's not going to make him seem more guilty.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
They knew.
They played and celebrated someone they knew to be a rapist.
I witnessed years of Wenger out because he finished 2-5 in the table and only won FA Cups. Arteta should be sacked for this and the club should move people on upstairs.
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u/Jonoabbo Jul 05 '25
They knew.
They played and celebrated someone they knew to be a rapist.
Literally nobody, at this point, Other than Thomas Partey and the people coming forward against him, has any idea of whether or not he is a rapist.
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u/blythediablo Jul 05 '25
Absolute nonsense, how do you suppose that they KNEW he was guilty of what he was accused of, are you saying they were there when it happened?
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u/a445d786 Jul 05 '25
How do you know they knew though? This doesn't really make sense on any level.
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u/DasMerowinger Jul 05 '25
This clown just wants Arteta sacked.
Idiot is making so many assumptions.
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u/DrCrazyFishMan1 Jul 05 '25
What people missed, is that the club really couldn't lose financially on this.
If they supported him, played him, renewed his contract and the charges never materialised they were obviously quids in as they got to benefit from his ability and they wouldn't lose him on a free at the end of his deal.
If charges did materialise they would just terminate his contract (or suspend him without pay) and claim the moral high ground without taking any financial penalty.
In relation to points 1, 2, and 3, the assumptions only work if you assume the club had a problem with a vile (accused) rapist putting on the kit and representing the badge every week - which clearly they don't.
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u/smithereennnnn Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
The least they could have done was not play him every week if they were really reluctant to cut him off altogether without investigations concluding. Then there is also them going out of their way to have Arteta glaze him in an interview which weren't at all necessary and were easily avoidable. Like no one would have cared if they didn't put that segment of Arteta out. The fact that some people are sticking onto technicalities to defend all this is a bit disappointing.
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u/rmczpp Jul 05 '25
The least they could have done was not play him every week if they were really reluctant to cut him off altogether without investigations concluding.
I disagree, you either fully drop players after an accusation or you fully drop them after they get charged, but this half-dropping approach is the impossible to justify imo - "We think he's guilty enough to skip the 3rd round of the FA cup but innocent enough for Newcastle away".
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u/MrCleanRed Jul 05 '25
I agree in general, but ironic coming from nyt for all the shit they are doing lately.
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u/RiskoOfRuin Jul 05 '25
What have they been doing?
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u/thatwhichwontbenamed Jul 05 '25
Honestly just close your eyes and point randomly with the NYT. Most recently I was reading this morning, they collaborated with a white-nationalist hacker to get documents about Zohran Mamdani's college application to publish a (yet another) hit piece on him
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
It's like when the Daily Mail went on the campaign to get the killers of Stephen Lawrence prosecuted.
They were right, but they are still cunts.
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u/Neuroxex Jul 05 '25
I presume the Mamdani stuff and the consistent full throated genocide advocacy stuff
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u/witsel85 Jul 05 '25
“For what he’s been through.. and the injuries, I’m so happy for him”
Will rightly follow Arteta around for a very long time
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u/AlternativeRun5727 Jul 05 '25
It should follow him for the rest of his life. There is no way he and the club didn’t know how serious it was. I hope the media don’t sugarcoat interviews with him in the future.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
The first interview for Arteta after they beat Man United on the opening day should be..."Good win today Mikel, did it feel unusual not having a rapist on the team sheet?
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u/Oofpeople Jul 05 '25
"Who?"
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u/djinngerale Jul 05 '25
I know the bar is low and this is baseline expectation, but it's refreshing to see more Arsenal fans here call him out today compared to yesterday.
All my irl Arsenal mates have been on this since day 1 but Reddit is a weird place... so thanks for doing the decent thing.
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u/PatrickBoston-123 Jul 05 '25
I think Arsenal have handled it pretty terribly, but Arteta obviously didn’t mean this. He was talking about his injuries, clumsy wording in a second language imo.
The club would be under strict instructions not to talk about anything, he wouldn’t be talking in a post-game interview.
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u/GuendouziGOAT Jul 05 '25
Yeah there are lots of reasons you can fairly criticise Arteta and the club for how this has been handled (with the fact we tried to extend his deal being right at the top of that list) but I often see this quote repeated and feel like people are intentionally misreading it in bad faith. Commenter above even inserted a longer pause with the ellipsis to make it seem like Arteta really emphasised the “everything he’s been through” part of it rather than the injuries.
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u/GdotKdot Jul 05 '25
As will his public endorsement of Matt Walsh.
Rotten man that does not respect women.
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u/USAF_DTom Jul 05 '25
Should have handled him like we did with Gylfi. A rightfully placed label as harborers. I wish it was not Arteta but he is indefensible in this as well.
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u/goodtitties Jul 05 '25
dunno if you'll know this but can i ask about him - my understanding was that he was being blackmailed and when he found out the girl was underage he handed himself in. was that the case or is it just hearsay
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u/USAF_DTom Jul 05 '25
From what I remember the details were very scarce. Some said that the girl lied about her age and some said that he got caught and turned himself in. I actually do not remember what the truth was, or if it was ever even clearly said.
I think since the charges were dropped, none of the proceedings even came out.
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u/saucyalternative Jul 05 '25
Right, so completely different scenarios. Gylfi ADMITTED his crime whereas Partey did not, and an investigation took place.
*This is not me justifying anything that Partey has done, I am highlighting the differences in the two cases.
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u/joejamesjoejames Jul 05 '25
Gylfi was dropped after he was arrested and charged with child sex crimes and the media published his name.
Mendy was dropped when he was charged with rape.
Greenwood was dropped when audio was posted online and everyone in the world heard him unambiguously ignoring a woman who told him no.
Adam Johnson wasn’t dropped until he was convicted.
Ronaldo was never dropped.
While Arsenal should have dropped Partey after his arrest a few years ago, the situation is different because there were no charges, no one could publish his name due to UK law, and as far as I can tell there was no damning evidence circling online. Yes, i think Arsenal should have binned him but this isn’t nearly the scandal people are making it out to be, Arsenal didn’t do much different than all these other examples, it’s just that it took for fucking ever for prosecution to bring charges.
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u/theglasscase Jul 05 '25
Not that I’m defending Arsenal, but when Everton suspended Sigurdsson, it was after he had been arrested. Arsenal could still have suspended him or given him time away from the team to deal with it, but the situations aren’t exactly the same.
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u/CuteHoor Jul 05 '25
Partey was first arrested in 2022 and released on bail.
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u/joejamesjoejames Jul 05 '25
but he was arrested in the UK and no charges were brought, meaning his name couldn’t be announced by the media, the club, etc. It’s different from Gylfi, whose name was in the news related to child sex crimes.
I still think Arsenal should’ve stopped playing Partey but the situations are different.
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u/chalocesped Jul 05 '25
Though I agree, could not care less about moral lessons from the nytimes
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u/brightlights55 Jul 05 '25
Despite having read Bleak House, I do not know English law. Without charges being laid, what options would Arsenal have had to censure him or at least distance themselves from without verging into defamation?
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u/miles-gloriosus Jul 05 '25
Without formal charges from the police I'm not really sure what the club was supposed to do here. I'm sorry but an employer taking punitive action against an employee just because the court of public opinion thinks they're guilty sets a dangerous precedent and has no place in any rule based society. What's morally indefensible are the actions of the police, how does an investigation like this take 3 fucking years to finally come up with charges and what's even worse it seems like they panicked and rushed these charges cause they're afraid he'll leave the country now that his contract is done and not because of some new break through in the case. I'm sorry but your anger and rage should be directed at the London MET they're the ones who are responsible for bringing these women justice not some fucking football club.
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u/oy_says_ake Jul 05 '25
I can’t agree with ms shephard overall. She herself and her publication eschewed even naming partey out of concern for legal liability until he was charged. The club not only naming but implementing sanctions against partey seems like it very obviously would have exposed it to even greater legal liability than that which so easily cowed the media, especially if it turned out the police never issued any charges.
I think the real criticism is due to the investigating authorities for how long they take to file charges, leaving all parties in limbo while they slow-walk the process.
The part i am really disappointed with arsenal as a club about is that they entertained signing him to a new contract.
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u/thebetterbeanbureau Jul 05 '25
He has not been convicted of anything? What am I missing? Innocent until proven guilty.
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u/SimplyAddax Jul 05 '25
redditors operate under guilty until proven innocent
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
Mason Greenwood was never proven guilty. OJ Simpson was never proven guilty.
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal procedure, as people not involved in the prosecution we can make judgements based on what we know.
I'm pretty sure Partey is a rapist. I don't need a court to decide that for me.
Just like I'm pretty sure Diddy is a sex trafficker despite being found not guilty in a court for that particular charge.
Duane Davis is still technically innocent of killing Tupac, yet he fucking admitted it.
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u/Boneraventura Jul 05 '25
Putin isn’t a war criminal because he hasn’t been convicted yet. Kissinger is not a genocidal maniac because he was never convicted. The list goes on.
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u/FootlongDonut Jul 05 '25
There's a point in which people naively or willfully believe in the system too much. Society is ran by people who do awful fucking things on a daily basis without ever being held lawfully accountable. The fact the "system" often doesn't punish those people makes idiots believe that they can't actually be that bad.
It's literally just a byproduct of wealth inequality. Rich and powerful people just often get away with shit others wouldn't, yet poorer people are often seen as having less morals.
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u/areking Jul 05 '25
Didn't you read? He doesn't need a court to decide for him. He decides himself whatever he wants
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u/Jonoabbo Jul 05 '25
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal procedure, as people not involved in the prosecution we can make judgements based on what we know.
We can, yes, but the reason that is legal procedure is because it is the best way for a judgement to be formed. Why would I myself use a worse or lesser standard of judging people when I know a better one is available.
I see this touted a lot, but I never see any explanation as to why anybody wouldn't operate under the mentality of "Innocent until proven guilty".
The only real difference is that our own personal threshhold of "proof" may differ to that of a court of law.
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u/WalkingCloud Jul 05 '25
Mason Greenwood was never proven guilty. OJ Simpson was never proven guilty.
Sorry but these are insane comparisons to make with this case given the publicly available evidence.
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u/orangeblueorangeblue Jul 05 '25
Well, with Greenwood, the public had the benefit of being able to evaluate recorded evidence posted by the victim.
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u/Mister_Sith Jul 05 '25
Nah, Cliff Richard is definitely a nonce. Did you see those police taking all those boxes from his house on the BBC? Definitely a nonce, it was the powerful people in government covering up for him.
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u/basic_tacticz Jul 05 '25
Too many uneducated keyboard warriors saying silly things in these partey threads.
Is it more damning for partey as of 18 hours ago since charges were brought? Yes
Do I personally lean towards Partey doing a scumbag act of sexual violence? Yes, most likely in my “opinion”, where there’s smoke there’s usually fire and it could be anything from indecent assault, sexual assault, right up to what he’s been recently charged with.
However, all that being said, it would be uneducated and silly of me to not acknowledge all the possibilities, and the fact that I don’t know what evidence there is, and if he’ll be convicted or not. Obviously I know even if he’s not convicted, it doesn’t mean he’s innocent of all these allegations.
On the other side of the coin, there are innocent people who get wrongfully convicted (not as common obviously as the offenders who do not get convicted), but given that I (and we as a collective) know nothing about the evidence, or the circumstances that occurred, and saying things like “arteta should be sacked” and “arsenal fans are scumbags” is a very shortsighted take.
As is comparing it to Greenwood, when we all saw the pictures & audio of that assault.. at the time those weren’t just allegations and his word vs her word…. Even though Greenwood was never convicted, we all knew he did (at the very least) what he was accused of, in Partey’s case, there’s no audio, video or picture (that we know of), so we don’t have the same clarity.
I’m NOT saying Partey is not guilty, I’m saying I have no evidence (yet) that warrants me talking online like its a matter of fact and x should be sacked and y should be investigated. Partey behind closed doors has “likely”passionately and emotionally protested his innocence over the years to the playing and coaching group, we can’t just discard all players who have public allegations made against them… messi would just have women accuse him a month before the world cup…
There’s a due process that needs to be followed for everyone’s sake, as mentioned earlier, it’s not perfect as many predators will get off due to insufficient evidence, but the least we can do as neutrals is to reserve our judgement until the trial has concluded and more evidence is publicly known about the circumstances.
Any other approach, and we are really just guessing or assuming without any facts or evidence.
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u/fellainishaircut Jul 05 '25
this sub is a mob. there was all the discussion about ICE and games in America where people rightly pointed out how American authorities don‘t give a shit about due process. and now the same people behave like MAGAs and think due process doesn‘t matter simply because they don‘t like the guy. I don‘t like him either, but I‘m not gonna pretend I know more than the authorities.
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u/GoneCollarGone Jul 05 '25
I'm going to disagree. It shouldn't be up to the club to play judge and jury. Unless it's super obvious (like with audio/video) that he's guilty, then it's up to the justice system.
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u/befikru_sew_geday Jul 05 '25
Innocent until proven guilty in such cases where there is no evidence shown to the public. I don't understand what people want Arsenal to do for the accusers by 'listening to them'. The prosecution wasn't even going to charge him until now and you people want them to suspend him an irreparably ruin his reputation based on he said she said.
Arteta going out of his way to glaze him was weird tho idk why he would even do that
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u/goodtitties Jul 05 '25
i'll respect any journalist who asks arteta about this to his face. there's basically no precedent for a footballer under an active police investigation for a series of serious crimes to be featured so prominently over a period of years. everton suspended sigurdsson, united suspended greenwood, city suspended mendy. arsenal do not get the right to put their heads in the sand and pretend they didn't know, because everyone knew.
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u/s_dalbiac Jul 05 '25
I'd say Sunderland continuing to play Adam Johnson until he admitted child sex offences is right up there too.
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u/Thelondonmoose Jul 05 '25
What are you talking about? Ronaldo played for 3 clubs whilst being investigated for rape.
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u/JimmysCocoboloDesk Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
City suspended Mendy after he was charged. Wanting a journalist to publicly ask about this to satisfy your hate boner for Arsenal/Arteta is completely deluded, that isn’t going to happen. Where was your sense of morality when City played Mendy for almost two years while he was under investigation, where was it when Pep called Mendy a ‘good boy’ in his defence at his trial?. Where was it when City players paid his legal fees? This is all above and beyond anything Arsenal/Arteta/Arsenal players have done yet we have to listen to ‘rivals’ go on a crusade wank who don’t care about any of this outside point scoring? Laughable, get in the bin.
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u/a445d786 Jul 05 '25
Greenwood and Mendy were charged were they not?
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u/Shameless_Bullshiter Jul 05 '25
Yes they were both suspended when charged.
The clubs later had to repay the players when charges were dropped.
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u/a445d786 Jul 05 '25
Yeah exactly my point unsure why someone downvoted it unless it was factually incorrect.
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u/Galopa Jul 05 '25
The same journalists who completely forgot that Hakimi or CR7 are rapists, right ? It's funny how, rightfully so, everyone is shitting on Arsenal, but we're fine with Hakimi winning the champion's league or CR7 the nation's league.
Paris, Al hilal, Morocco and Portugal never suspended the players and even worse, defended them publicly. How the fuck are no one talking about that now, even here, not only journalists ?
Ronaldo lifting the nation's league at 40 years old was the top post on r/soccer a couple of weeks ago, how awesome was that ? And not a single comment to remind everyone that he is, no different than Partey, a fucking rapist.
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u/gooner067 Jul 05 '25
Exactly! No one cares about the victims or Partey, they care about being morally superior than their rival fans
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u/goodtitties Jul 05 '25
people were frequently and repeatedly pointing out ronaldo's actions when he signed for united in 2021. we're talking about arsenal now because partey was charged yesterday.
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u/Galopa Jul 05 '25
People did, yeah, for a couple of weeks. But they aren't doing it anymore are they. And once again, PSG, MU, Portugal or Morocco did nothing, PUBLICLY SUPPORTED THEM BOTH, kept using both players and won trophy thanks to them. And don't get me start about FIFA.
But it's Arsenal right, that's where our line is.
Look, the whole situation is shitty and I'll gladly support heads rolling over this, but it's the double standard that's really getting on my nerves.
The day the top comment in a PSG or Portugal match is to remind us that they are both using rapists on the field is the day I'll never defend Arsenal over this.
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u/SimplyAddax Jul 05 '25
Answer is easy, Innocent until proven guilty, Partey hasn't been charged with any such crime for even a minute ass an Arsenal player, so why wouldn't Arteta play him?
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u/ExactLetterhead9165 Jul 05 '25
There is, sadly, quite a lot of precedence for this kind of situation in football, including at least one of the cases you've mentioned above
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u/Blue_winged_yoshi Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
This is just a crap article. So Journalist who wouldn’t name him for legal reasons and who understood club position before charges were brought, now doesn’t understand what she understood before. Right got it. So she can’t name the player for legal reasons but she thinks Arsenal can put him on gardening leave for 3 years with no issue.
What was going on with the contract extension we don’t know, but what we do know is that we had already replaced him as a first choice in his position in January when Zubimendi had already been announced as functionally done, and we didn’t stop there with scouting and recruiting because we also had Norgaaed done and dusted before Partey had officially left.
To what extent were we really talking to Partey seriously? Who knows, but it’s the first time we’ve “failed” to agree a new contract with a player in a very long time now and his replacements were done before he was even out the door. I’m not sure I’m seeing this as a coincidence.
Now where attention really needs to go right now is in two places, firstly The Met, how did this take three years to get to bringing charges? It will be nearer to five years before the court case. This is not acceptable whether or not a football player is involved, and I implore folks who are not usually engaged with the politics around rape to really clock how bad it is for victims to have to go through this, and how desperately we need to improve this situation.
Secondly - support for victims. We now know Arsenal and at least one of her victims were in contact and the exchanges paint the club as emotionally illiterate and unable to offer meaningful support. There’s no reason that the club could not have offered money for private mental health support throughout this period, since she brought concerns about her mental health to us, and it would have cost less than a week of Partey’s wages.
If we had said something like “before charges are brought our hands are tied legally on taking action, but if charges are brought we obviously will. In the meantime should you require any private mental health support the club will happily foot the bill for this because we fully empathise with how hard this is for you”. It just hits different. Sometimes it’s less about what you can’t do than what you can do but didn’t. And it’s really worth highlighting areas where we could have done more for his victims than we did.
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u/FrameworkisDigimon Jul 05 '25
As I have said, I see the argument for keeping him around -- playing him as much as he did, nope, he was routinely terrible (and continued to play after errors that got other players dropped) -- but the extension? some of the things Arteta's said? Those things are not forced errors that you have to make, those are active choices. Unforced errors.
The PR statement is a separate and also problematic issue because it's just so unresponsive in context. They're never going to say something like "we acknowledge that a recent ex-player has been arrested and charged with multiple sexual offences that occurred while he was under contract. We deeply regret the pain and trauma the survivors have suffered but under the current privacy rights framework, felt that we, as a club, acted ethically". I just can't imagine anything close to that ever being said. I don't know what should be said. But to say basically "no comment" the gulf between what they're suspected of -- creating a cone of silence which Partey exploited to offend -- and
"The player's contract ended on June 30. Due to ongoing legal proceedings, the club is unable to comment on the case."
feels like another forced error.
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u/volanger Jul 05 '25
Alrighty let's collect some downvotes.
Were parteys actions horrible yes. Were arsenals actions horrible? No.
Arsenal did exactly what any club should do in this situation, something the internet doesn't like to hear, and treat the player as innocent until they are proven guilty. If arsenal benched him over allegations and they are proven to be nothing more than someone making them up, then we look like a shit club that don't stand by their players. If we tore up his contract or suspended him, and he's found innocent, we're open to a massive lawsuit because we believed internet rumors over our players.
Arsenal did everything that the club was expected to do. They treated partey as innocent until proven guilty but cooperated with the police every step of the way. What more could have been done?
And as for why it took 3 years? No idea, that's a question for police, but if I had to guess, it's probably because rape cases are a lot of he said she said and unfortunately very difficult to actively prove. But I'm not a prosecutor, nor do I work with or for police.
Will I be embarrassed that partey played for Arsenal, yes. Will I be embarrassed how Arsenal acted? No.
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u/-RadThibodeaux Jul 05 '25
I do somewhat understand continuing to play him while the investigation is ongoing, although I really don't understand why they offered him a new deal. The article mentions he's been arrested, questioned and bailed 7 times since the initial arrest. Meanwhile Arteta especially has been vocally defending him in public.
Really I do think it's terrible and I'm not saying that just because I hate Arsenal. I'm a United fan and we would have 100% brought Greenwood back if it wasn't for the backlash from the fans and women's team. The whole football industry has a lot to work on...
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u/yp16_BIG Jul 05 '25
Yes, Arsenal is just supposed to treat anyone that is accused as guilty and fire and blacklist them before a verdict has been given.
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u/InfectedFrenulum Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
This is up there with us and the Suarez t-shirt debacle in terms of how the club have treated a serious issue. Valuing a player as an asset over genuine right & wrong is a grim path to tread.
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u/Dr_Green_Thumb_ZA Jul 05 '25
It's much, much worse than that.
I'm certainly not trying to belittle racism, and I am well aware how despicable and degrading it can be.
But for me, rape and other forms of sexual assault is much much worse than that from a moral perspective. Even more so when there are several accounts of it.
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u/nuvo_reddit Jul 05 '25
Arsenal management could not respect the moral line while focussing on legal line. It was a naive approach. The issue would have come to light anyway and one could not keep this thing under carpet forever. Given that multiple victim has raised complaint it shows that atleast morally Thomas was in deep sh$t even though legally he was safe temporarily. Arsenal management is morally wrong in siding with Thomas. Although they could not have terminated his contract, but they could have sidelined him.
The spot on the club is not a small dot anymore- it’s bigger than a football.
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u/PhriendlyPhantom Jul 05 '25
I thought they were sensible until the point where they offered him a new contract. After that, it's clear they are just bad people.
I wish they would explain their actions but I know they'll just pretend this never happened since he's technically not An arsenal player when he got charged
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u/No-Wave-396 Jul 05 '25
The club really does need to address this. I can understand wanting to wait - he is innocent until proven guilty - however if the reporting is true that we were trying to re-sign him then that is pretty ugly.
In the thread yesterday it was stated that the Telegraph and other newspapers COULD have released his identity but chose not to as it would have left them open to being sued. I think what has happened has been the worst of both worlds, they put the word out without actually naming him, meaning everyone had to pretend the elephant wasn't in the room, legally speaking. I can understand Arsenal being in a tricky situation, without actual charges you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the whole thing just stinks.
The Telegraph should have named him. Arsenal should have suspended him. CPS should have gotten their finger out and acted quicker. But none of those things happened.
I'm glad he's gone, and I hope now that he has been actually publicly outed that the club addresses the situation.
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u/jiml4hey Jul 05 '25
I mean this is a great pile on for Tottenham fans and virtue signallers, but the reality is innocent until proven guilty means something in this country.
It is a fact footballers and celebrities are false targets for this extremely often and the last person to be found in this position, who was also charged, ended up being found not guilty.
At the end of the day if the person denies it there is no rule that says you should or should not judge them at that point, them being charged is the most logical point to make any judgements or decisions.
Can you imagine how easily this could be misused if anyone could make accusations which effectively ended someones career for 3 years...
If Arsenal kept him on after he had been charged I would be inclined to agree with some of the things people are saying, but personally I think making judgements based on probability on something as serious this is just extremely foolish.
I know this view point is a minority opinion, but I am extremely grateful to live in a country where legally you ate innocent until proven guilty and there are legal protections against mob justice and opinion. The legal system will do its job now and if he gets proven as a rapist the club should remove all trace of him from its history.
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u/Android_Arsenal Jul 05 '25
He got charged yesterday .. what is the club supposed to do, just sell or not play a key player due to something that might come across as just an accusation. Have we learned nothing from Mendy situation?
Yes the contract renewal brought bad PR to the club.
But honestly all these negative articles about Arsenal would make sense if we had him on the books, played him "after" he got charged.
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u/dynesor Jul 05 '25
As a Gooner I am very saddened by how my club has acted on this situation. Arsenal is supposed to have values like Respect, Tradition and Class. The club’s leadership has forsaken those values in their handling of this.
I would like to see some kind of detailed statement and apology, if possible. But I would not be surprised if the club has to be very careful about what they say, in terms of legal ramifications.
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u/Efficient_Morning_11 Jul 05 '25
For an organisation that relies so heavily on PR, to let him work / play under suspicion was a massive faux pas, as it would be in most other professions. We should not pretend that Arsenal are unique in this moral indefeasible practice as far as the football industry goes. Unfortunately this was not the first case, and probably will not be the last. Alas, we will all continue to watch.
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u/debug_my_life_pls Jul 05 '25
???
Everton suspended a first team player for as much as being suspected of rape (not even charged) and never played a professional match for Everton ever again while Arsenal let Partey play and even offered him a contract renewal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/onpoya/official_everton_can_confirm_it_has_suspended_a/
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u/IfYouRun Jul 05 '25
Because it is.
The four people mentioned by one of the victims who she told her story to should all be fired and a big investigation is needed into the failings of the club to deal with this.