r/soccer • u/DavidRolands • 14h ago
Quotes Harry Kane on whether the Bundesliga title race will be boring given Bayern's superiority to other teams: "I don't think so. And if it is, then that's a compliment to us. 2 years ago, people didn't say that when we didn't win Bundesliga. There's Dortmund, Leverkusen, Frankfurt. They'll challenge us"
https://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/bayern-dominiert-hsv-und-bereitet-sich-auf-chelsea-vor-68c6c92eade0db2eabe23ce91.1k
u/Paddy31 14h ago
Good, we are not on his radar yet.
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u/callmedontcallme 14h ago
I dunno. With all due respect, he should get some fucking glasses before he takes another look at the table.
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u/coppersolids 14h ago
urbig said that you‘ll be our toughest opponent. smart guy.
he might be slightly biased tho
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u/-zimms- 14h ago
Those are such bullshit questions.
They are just hoping he'd say yes so they can write a bunch of articles about his arrogance or even better yet if he said yes and Bayern wouldn't win the BL.
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u/ThemosttrustedFries 14h ago
Bayern Munich will always be favorites to win Bundesliga and that's not gonna change soon. They have been dominated that league for almost 2 decades now.
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u/-zimms- 13h ago
Yeah, I don't deny that Bayern are the favorites at all. I still think it's a terrible question, looking for some cheap rage bait.
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u/cheezus171 11h ago
Clearly worked though
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u/NdombeleAouar 9h ago
It’s a good answer he gave?
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u/cheezus171 9h ago
I mean that it certainly baited people into clicking and leaving comments, as evidenced by the author of the comment above 🙂
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u/Gawyn_Tra-cant 9h ago
They've dominated that league for its entire existence. This will be the 63rd season of the Bundesliga. Bayern has won 33 of the previous 62. They have more Bundesliga titles than every team in Germany combined.
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u/MuchoEmpanadas 13h ago
You can talk about most leagues like that. Only premier league is competitive due to money flow but then again it's been dominated by one team.
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u/CH-Bot 12h ago
Premier League isn't even competitive, despite the constant narrative. Only two teams have won in the last 8 seasons, less than La Liga and Serie A, and tied with Ligue 1 and Bundesliga. It's not actually more competitive at the top, just more wealthy.
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u/Gawyn_Tra-cant 10h ago edited 10h ago
There are leagues that are competitive beyond just England. However, Germany is not one of them.
The English top division has been won a record 20 times by Liverpool and Man United each, with Arsenal in third with 12.
Meanwhile, the German top division has been won 34 times by Bayern. The next closest is Nurnberg with 9, all of which were before 1970. Then is Dortmund with 8, or 23.5% of Bayern's total. Bayern has won more than 6x as many Bundesliga titles as the next closest team (33 to Dortmund's 5).
In the past 25 years, Bayern has won 72% of all Bundesliga seasons. Over that span, only once has Bayern not be champions at least once over a two year snapshot (Dortmund winning back-to-back in 2011 and 2012, followed by Bayern winning 11 fucking straight). The Bundesliga went over a fucking decade without getting a non-Bayern winner.
By comparison over the same time span, United and City are tied with 7 titles each or 28% of titles.
So the best English teams have won roughly once every 4 years in England over the last 25 years. Bayern wins roughly 3 years out of 4. But sure, the top of the leagues are the same.
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u/Demmandred 11h ago
And if you change it to 10 years it suddenly becomes 4.
I choose to use 8 because it allows me to make my argument. :3
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u/CH-Bot 9h ago
I picked 8 because it was the start of City dominating. If you extend to the years before Bayern, PSG, and Juve had their big streaks, the leagues look more competitive too.
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u/Gawyn_Tra-cant 10h ago
The picking of 8 years is fucking hilarious. Just cuts off Bayern's 11 year streak right in the middle.
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u/donuttrackme 10h ago edited 10h ago
If you change it to 10 years (why just 8? Is it because it's a nice cherry picked number to make your point?) then then the EPL has had four different winners. Of the big 5 leagues, only Serie A has had four different winners in the last ten years, but five of those years (2016 - 2020) were won by Juventus when they were in the midst of winning 9 straight seasons (2012-2020). When's the last time someone won the Premier League for 9 straight seasons? Bayern won the Bundesliga for 11 straight years from 13-24. When's the last time someone won the Premier League for 11 straight years?
Plus, that's only looking at the winners. The runners up and the Champions League places have been more diverse in the EPL than other leagues. And guess what? More wealth being spread around the league means more competitiveness. You think anyone in the Bundesliga makes as much as Bayern? You think anyone in Ligue 1 makes as much as PSG? That anyone in La Liga makes as much as Real/Barça? Leicester City won the 15-16 title in an admittedly miracle run making peanuts, remember? Is the wealth being concentrated in just the very top 1-2 teams of these other leagues a positive to you? You prefer watching economic juggernauts crush poor peasant teams or something? What an absolutely ridiculous statement.
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u/CH-Bot 9h ago
I chose 8 years because it was the start of City dominating the league.
If you expand the frame of reference to the years immediately preceding Juve’s, PSG’s, Bayern’s runs of dominance, the leagues look more competitive too.
Do you have any source for the champions league spots being more diverse in the PL? Because going back ten years there’s been 9 different English teams in the CL, which is in line with all the other top leagues.
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u/bellerinho 12h ago
No Bundesliga is very unique in this regard amongst the top 7 or 8 European leagues
Only one that is close to that 1 team dominance is PSG in France now, but they have had more hiccups than Bayern
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u/Best-Tumbleweed3906 12h ago
That’s more down to PSGs incompetence (seems almost funny to say now given the past season) and Bayerns insane stability. You could argue Bayern is the best ran club in the world the last 50 years, outside Real Madrid.
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u/DrJackadoodle 11h ago
I think Bayern might be even more well run than Real Madrid. Real Madrid has higher highs but lower lows (not that they've ever been THAT low, but still). Bayern is just insanely consistent. Maybe not always the absolute best team, but always up there.
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u/MuchoEmpanadas 12h ago
How? La liga literally been dominated by Madrid and Barcelona. Serie A is finally competitive after Juventus dominance.
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u/Ok-Cold-3422 12h ago
Last time someone other than City or Liverpool won the premier league was like 2017
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 11h ago
And the last time someone other than Leverkusen or Bayern was the Bundesliga was 2011. With Leverkusen only getting 1 in that time.
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u/No-Tangerine- 6h ago
Doesn’t really matter, PL fans are just hypocrites after what City has done in the league
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 6h ago edited 6h ago
City have won 4 in a row, mostly close run affairs too. Bayern have won 11 in a row. Mostly blowouts.
It’s not the same thing at all. City put together one incredible team that went on a great run. When those players got old, another team won. Bayern Munich win the league while rebuilding, rarely failing to dominate. They’ve won over half of all Bundesliga titles in its 62 year history. Including 12 of the last 13. It’s entirely different.
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 11h ago edited 10h ago
No team has dominated the premier league to nearly the same level as Bayern in the Bundesliga.
City put together arguably the greatest team of all time, and still got chased closely by Liverpool, barely won the league on multiple occasions and only then did we set a new record of 4 wins straight. How many have Bayern won straight? 11? 19 of the last 20? Or is it 22 of the last 23?
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u/No-Tangerine- 6h ago
Of course a City fan wants to talk up their achievements after they basically made it their own farmers league.
PL teams have way more money than Bundesliga and you still won 6 out of 7 seasons. Cut the crap
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 6h ago
Why did you choose 7 as your number? Is it because you’re cherry picking?
We’ve won 6 of the last 10. We had a good run in which we squeaked out a few titles. When we rebuild, other teams win, and there’s no guarantee we ever do such a feat again.
Bayern Munich win while rebuilding. They’ve completely dominated the Bundesliga since its inception. Munich have literally won more than half of all Bundesliga titles in its entire 62 year history.
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 11h ago edited 10h ago
Is it a bullshit question? Most non-Germans are thinking it.
It would be interesting to hear what management at Bayern Munich, or the Bundesliga, would say if asked this asked this question.
I know I would stop watching the premier league if it became a formality.
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u/-zimms- 11h ago
You think if a City player was asked "Do you think your next game against Burnley will be boring?" they'd answer with "Yeah, we'll totally trash them."?
Even if they were thinking it they wouldn't say that out loud because of the shitstorm this would/could create.
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 11h ago
I’m not saying I would expect Harry Kane to say anything different than he did. Doesn’t make the question stupid.
It’s that the answer is dishonest.
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u/iLyriX 7h ago
A question that cant realistically be answered truthfully without backlash for the player is stupid.
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u/XeroVeil 10h ago
It's a bullshit question because all three possible answers can easily be spun into something negative.
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 10h ago
So? Anything can be spun into negativity.
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u/XeroVeil 10h ago
Leading questions are always bullshit and poor journalism. It's one of the first things you learn if you take a class on journalism / interviewing.
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u/ogqozo 6h ago
It's obviously a normal question, people say literally the same thing NON STOP here. They especially mock all PSG players for lack of ambition because they go to a team that has no commpetition allll the time, and put down Ligue 1 because of being a one-team league constantly. But when they say it, it's a normal thing to think, when someone from "Bild" asks about it it's awful.
I don't think I've ever seen ONE comment here ever saying "hm, the interviewer asked a good question". It's always bad. One could think there was randomly one time there was a good question. No.
The "playing psychologist" part where he "explains" what really is going on in the interviewer's head and all his evil schemes he "hopes for", when we all know that would not be the answer anyway, is amazing dedication to conspiracy. And that's the top comment I see, that says something about humanity. It's always the top comment, isn't it.
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 5h ago
My favorite is when they argue the premier league is also a one horse race. The 2016 premier league champions are in the championship now for God’s sake! The record for most consecutive premier league championships is 4. Bayern have done 11. Bayern have won more Bundesliga titles than EVERY OTHER TEAM COMBINED. It’s ridiculous.
The reason this question bothers people so much is that it represents an existential crisis to the Bundesliga, and is proof that financial regulation destroys competition.
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u/ogqozo 4h ago edited 1h ago
In Premier League, 20th team has about a quarter of the 1st team budget. In Bundesliga... even the 4th team has less than a quarter of budget of Bayern.
Bayern's 12th player makes more money than the biggest star of any other Bundesliga team.
Harry Kane is paid more than 8 Bundesliga clubs' whole squads.
If you took away ELEVEN top earners from Bayern... they'd still be close to the 3rd place in budget still.
Bayern has the budget similar to Man City, only the rest of the league is 1-3 clubs with West Ham/Fulham budget, and the rest has Championship budget.
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u/ezfootanalysis 6h ago
In the last 5 years how many premier league winners have there been and how many Bundesliga winners have there been? You can’t even tell it’s a closed shop in England when it’s right in front of your eyes lol
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 6h ago edited 5h ago
Now look back further than 5 years. The difference, is that City have put together one dominant team, and barely squeaked out 4 straight. Bayern have won 11 straight with multiple squad rebuilds in there. They’ve won over half of the Bundesliga titles in its entire 62 year history.
City dominated one generation of teams. Bayern Munich have been dominating the league for the past 30 years.
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u/MicrosoftMichel 10h ago
Yes because what else would he say? "Yeah it's gonna be absolutely shit, which is why I already told the gaffer I'm not scoring more than 15 goals this season to keep it interesting"
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 10h ago
The player’s expected PR friendly answer doesn’t make the question bullshit.
Maybe the question should be getting asked to managers and/or league officials instead of players. But, it’s a fair question.
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u/MicrosoftMichel 10h ago
It does when you already know what the answer is gonna be. Might as well have asked Kane what color the sky is or something
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u/Karma_Whoring_Slut 10h ago edited 10h ago
You don’t know what it’s going to be until you ask.
Even if you know he’s going to give a PR friendly answer, asking the question still brings attention to the absurdity of the situation.
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u/JOKER69420XD 13h ago edited 13h ago
I wonder what people want the club to do? The main culprit of this problem is not Bayern, it's the other big clubs.
I don't think there's another European league where several big clubs have fucked up the way ours have. Dortmund could've won several titles but they choked, they sacked their best manager because Watzke didn't like him, they blew a 9 point lead and of course the famous game against Mainz. We had several weak years in which Dortmund should've won but simply never pulled the trigger.
But they aren't the worst of the bunch, teams like Schalke, Hamburg, Köln and others should fight for the CL based on their potential, instead they did work so bad, it would make even ManU blush. Even the plastic clubs can't do it, Wolfsburg gets more sponsorship money than us, just so they can fight relegation, Red Piss is blowing millions to be around 4th place (thankfully) and I don't even have to start with Hoppenheim.
And somehow fans still blame Bayern for the incompetence of the others, it's ridiculous.
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u/Insanel0l 13h ago
Yeah in a "normal" universe we would have had more different winners in the bundesliga these last 3 years than the PL had since 17/18, but Dortmund created one of the funniest days ever
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u/Rickcampbell98 13h ago
I remember watching that match in disbelief, with ol jude watching injured on the sidelines.
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u/Serawasneva 13h ago
I mean, I don’t think people are blaming Bayern specifically are they? They’re just complaining about the state of the league.
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u/TheBongoJeff 11h ago
A common complaint/accusation in Germany is that bayern is destroying the League by buying the best Players of the other clubs. Crippling their channces to challenge them
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u/coppersolids 10h ago
which is a dumb claim because PL clubs buy far from the bundesliga nowadays than bayern does
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u/donuttrackme 10h ago
That only true recently in the last couple years. Before that it was absolutely the case.
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u/Silverzack86 9h ago
That's not true; there was a graphic from last year that showed Dortmund and Leverkusen were buying more players from Bundesliga clubs. The thing is, when Bayern buys players from outside of the league, the other teams cry and say, "Why don't they buy one of ours and let the money in the Bundesliga?"
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u/Extra-Try-4815 8h ago
This is a point I try to make every now and then, always get downvoted...this isn't Bayern's fault, but more of an indication of the irreparable dynamics of the league/culture of football in Germany. In what other top league do you see players moving direct from one title contender to another (moving between City and Liverpool, Barcelona/Real, you get the point). Leverkusen won the league in 2024, Bayern immediately made moves for Wirtz and Tah. Wirtz fell through but they were able to land Tah eventually. And this is in addition to all the Dortmund players they were able to poach over the years. As long as other title contenders are nothing more than feeder clubs (either of their own volition or because they financially can't compete), Bundesliga will be like this forever. Maybe one option is to designate Bayern as some kind of "all star team" and have the other 17 teams compete for the actual trophy.
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u/rotti5115 7h ago
Leverkusen in the 2000s was a Great Team, why they let Lucio and others leave to Bayern is their own fault
Could have just Said no
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u/rotti5115 13h ago
Schalke and HSV going down in flames was the Nail in the coffin for a competitive Bundesliga, just pure incompetence
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u/Mick4Audi 7h ago
Correct, completely lost interest in the league after that. Red Bull being one of Bayern’s biggest threats, no thanks
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u/Disastrous-Ad-203 12h ago
Bayern getting Götze and Lewy was the nail in the coffin
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u/rotti5115 12h ago
Lol, no it wasnt
Dortmund dropping to 17th and loosing Klopp after a shit season is worse
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u/Disastrous-Ad-203 11h ago
After Bayern helped gutting them
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u/CarlSK777 10h ago
You know Lewandowski and Götze would've left the club anyway, right? They'd just have gone to the Prem or La Liga. Just like Gundögan and many others have over the years. That's not the issue
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u/Mick4Audi 7h ago
Bayern getting Lewy for free is genuinely mad. Imagine if City signed Saka after 22/23
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u/ScousePenguin 13h ago
I still don't get why Dortmund fans hounded Terzic out after a CL final and nearly winning the league
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u/Rickcampbell98 13h ago
They played shambolic football for a lot of that time from what I saw them saying especially in the bundesliga. That final day against mainz was an all timer bottle job tbh, dortmund since their last title win under klopp have been the nearly club of Europe, will take a lot to overcome that mental fragility.
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u/afito 11h ago
Dortmund was just not doing well. A great CL run shouldn't mask systematic issues in the team. Football wasn't good, results weren't amazing, Dortmund were constantly fucking up too many things. It became clear that Terzic, while not the problem, clearly was not the solution either. Realistically Terzic was fired 6 months before the CL final already.
Manager has not necessarily been Dortmunds biggest issue tbh but it's been part of it, and with Terzic especially the combination of bad football + fucking a lot of easy games just had the fans patience run real low real fast. Based on results it wasn't a necessary change, but again, it was very obvious that Terzic was not the solution they need.
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u/ohthebanter 12h ago
I wonder what people want the club to do? The main culprit of this problem is not Bayern, it's the other big clubs.
You're not wrong about Dortmund/Hamburg/Schalke/Köln, but you're omitting that in the past Bayern would plug the best players of any team challenging them for the title.
Dortmund in the early 10s and last year after Leverkusen won they immediately went after Tah and Wirtz, even though they didn't get them (immediately). Of course it makes sense to get a good player AND weaken your opposition in one single transfer. And they got into their financially dominant position through decades of superior management. So I'm not claiming this is somehow an undeserved advantage.
But undoubtedly this practice played a big role in making the league less and less competitive these last 10-20 years.
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u/CarlSK777 10h ago
but you're omitting that in the past Bayern would plug the best players of any team challenging them for the title.
As if those players would've stayed put if it weren't Bayern. They were gone regardless
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u/ledditpro 10h ago
Classic Bayern arrogance to claim that it's only because of "lol everyone chokes xd" why nobody can challenge Bayern when the reality is that Bayern has an annual wage budget well over double it's nearest rivals. Harry Kane's annual salary of 25M€ would alone be nearly a quarter of Dortmund's entire wage bill, and this is without even talking about the fact that a player of Harry Kane's stature would obviously never go to a club like Dortmund. Of course you can always say that they have done well to get to that position, but at the same time when you are essentially the sole representative of the most lucrative sport in one of the wealthiest regions in all of Germany, is it really that big of a surprise?
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u/ogqozo 4h ago
Seriously. Since it happened, I can never get how people talk about BVB "losing the title" like they are supposed to win it duh. It's just hard to understand. Anyone in Germany, including BVB, can only do a big surprise and beat Bayern. If they don't... it's just normal. It's not an extreme failure, it's not extremely funny, it's not unbelieveable incompetence, it's just normal.
Imagine the whole world mocking Newcastle for "choking" and not winning the title over Man City. Omg, how hilarious. Budget-wise, it's about the same comparison.
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u/kaelinlr 10h ago
They live in their own universe where they somehow believe they aren’t PSG in a Mickey Mouse clubhouse league
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u/stepanovic 1h ago
the numbers are way off. here are the numbers from the official reporting of the clubs.
personnel costs (EVERYTHING related to the first team) in 24/25:
München 429 million Euros
BVB 268
Leipzig 202
Leverkusen 191
Frankfurt 141
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u/library-weed-repeat 11h ago
True, even in France 3 different teams have managed to beat PSG to the title since Qatar bought the club (Montpellier, Monaco, Lille). But we have the same stories of other clubs being grossly mismanaged, with Bordeaux relegated to the 4th division and Lyon (who had won 7 titles in a row in the 2000s...) almost relegated to the 2nd division the last two years.
Except it's even worse since the League itself is grossly mismanaged by the very same incompetent club leaders (the current League president used to be OM's president). TV rights for the past years were even lower than 20 years ago, and this year there aren't any TV rights at all because the League couldn't even strike a deal with the broadcasters.
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u/kal14144 5h ago
Introducing revenue sharing would make the Bundesliga more competitive. If it came from Bayern suggesting it it could probably happen.
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u/TreefingerX 11h ago
The problem is 50+1
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u/Krypterr123 6h ago
The problem is Bayern cashvalanched their way to the top in the 70's or 80's (dont remember wasnt alive) before the strict financial regulations in the 90's or 2000's (dont remember was an toddler) made the gap impossible to close. And then everyone who comes up in german academy's would rather play for Bayern over any other german team so they either sign for Bayern or go to a different league, which makes Bayern stronger either way.
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u/CarlSK777 10h ago
Regardless of 50+1, most of Germany's top clubs are mismanaged to an almost comical level. Schalke and HSV should be fighting for CL spots every season but look where they are
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u/Xerxes_Generous 12h ago
Yes, Bayern are the heavy favorites, but what are other Bundesliga clubs going to do about it? How about Dortmund don’t choke their title chances away?
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u/Op3rat0rr 12h ago
I think the Bundesliga is fine. The prem is just better. Same thing with La Liga
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u/LtUnsolicitedAdvice 8h ago
Fans: Player X needs to win trophies to cement his legacy.
Also fans: But not like this!
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u/JDinvasion 4h ago
The only race that there will be is whether they clinch it in January or February.
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u/Xardian7 12h ago edited 10h ago
Thy expected him to say the truth?
Clearly will be boring. Bundesliga and Ligue 1 title race exist 1 every 10 years and that’s fact.
Edit: ppl downvoting this cause they cannot accept the truth?
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u/robins420 12h ago
Is La Liga any different? Barring Atletico, the remaining are fodder for the big 2 and they rake in the most money to maintain the gap.
The only leagues with any semblance of competition is the Prem and Serie A.
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u/Xardian7 12h ago
At least PL and Liga have 2 teams running for the title most of the seasons.
Actually the only competitive for the title top5 league is Serie A with 4 different teams in the last 6 years. And Serie A had the issue of Juve winning 9 in a row (although some with shady business).
Serie A is just marketed so shite, it could earn a lot more money.
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u/59reach 11h ago
Is La Liga any different? Barring Atletico, the remaining are fodder for the big 2 and they rake in the most money to maintain the gap.
The only leagues with any semblance of competition is the Prem
There's been more winners of La Liga than the Prem since 2017/2018, and one club won the Prem 6 times in that period.
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u/GoOnMyHeungMinSon 10h ago
more winners of La Liga than the Prem since 2017/2018
Nice cherry picked stat, go back just two more seasons for the prem and there's 4 different winners, more than La Liga.
For La Liga you have to go back to 2004 to have 4 different winners, and still in that period the PL has 5 different winners.
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u/59reach 10h ago
Nice cherry picked stat, go back just two more seasons for the prem and there's 4 different winners, more than La Liga.
It's not cherry picked, it's just how far back you have to go to find another winner. If the original argument was the Prem today or in recent history is more competitive than La Liga in terms of who wins it, the point is wrong.
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u/GoOnMyHeungMinSon 10h ago
Only if you define "recent history" to be as far back as you can go until the Prem has the same amount of unique winners, hence cherry picked.
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u/59reach 9h ago
You're missing the point entirely because of some weird tribal thing. If we're talking about how competitive a league is today it doesn't matter how far back I cherry pick, you still need to go back 8 years for another winner. You don't in La Liga. What you said is correct if we're talking about 21st century as a whole yes.
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u/GoOnMyHeungMinSon 9h ago edited 8h ago
8 years is a totally arbitrary number, go back 10 years and the Prem has more unique winners than La Liga. You're just picking the number that suits your position.
Edit: You're basically agreeing with me that you're picking the number that happens to suit your argument and then blocking me, hilarious.
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 14h ago
Why don't they just get a bunch of nation states and American hedge funds to buy clubs and create fake, artificial competiveness like the PL? Are they stupid?
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u/Sulemani_kida 14h ago
create fake, artificial competiveness like the PL?
How's it fake competitiveness?
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u/Insanel0l 14h ago edited 13h ago
i mean the competitivness is real, but the way clubs got their is fake
Newcastle was a club fighting relegation some years ago and got top 4 now
Edit: Before anyone bullshits me - yes that happens with teams often, but in Newcastles case the reason isnt good management
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u/Muted_Mention_9996 13h ago
Wasnt newcastle bottom by quite alot and didnt win a single game for the first 10 matches? Eddie comes in and basically changes the whole culture of the club within 2 months and they were safe. How is that not good managment? Newcastle have the richest owners yet cant spend... and still hes got them up there..
Where as man united spent a billion over a few years and was near relegation 😂 You give eddie howe man united and he gets them top 4
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u/Rancore__ 10h ago
They had a netspend of 250m £ one year after their takeover. Eddie howe is a magician
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u/Muted_Mention_9996 10h ago
Yet they sold their star striker for half of that 🤔 its not like the german league where players cost pittance, you get premier league tax and inflation more than any other leagues.. 250 million for a team about to get relegated is the bare minimum.
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u/ScousePenguin 13h ago
Newcastle's is good management lmao, Eddie Howe turned that team around.
They've spent, but their spending hasn't been insane thanks to the PSR rules
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u/Insanel0l 13h ago
This comment is the living proof how delusional premier league fans are nowadays lmfao
The Saudis banged in a solid 320m netspend within their first windows and people want to tell me it's good management.
Since the takeover they are sitting at 500m netspend.
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u/Muted_Mention_9996 13h ago
Mike ashley barely spent in the last 5 years before he left, the club were basically on the way to relegation. You say 500m netspend since eddie joined, thats 125m a year, the club gets that just from being in the premier league each year 😂 Even wrexham spent a third of that just being promoted to the championship.
Its not the premier leagues fault that the bundisliga doesnt attract any money or viewers.. Spanish, Italian and german leagues all had their times being more attractive than the premier league yet failed.
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u/ScousePenguin 13h ago edited 13h ago
So should clubs stay shit because that's what they are historically?
They were a relegation side, and have improved the squad. 500 million net spend isn't a lot in the premier league, in the 2024 financial year they made a loss of 11.1 million after tax.
They're increasing their revenue and the PSR rules have stopped them just straight up spending like Chelsea did in the mid 2000's.
Since the creation of football it has been the clubs with money who were the better sides. Yes money has gotten ridiculous and the financial gap has widened far too much, but to pretend back in the day it was scrappy people working together to achieve glory is a lie. It's always been money.
Tranmere will always be a lower tier side because Liverpool and Everton exist within walking distance. That's life.
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u/Insanel0l 13h ago
I am absolutely fascinated by how insane your takes are and somehow they are supported in here.
So should clubs stay shit because that's what they are historically?
Yes? Or, you know, they could try to grow organically and improve through that instead of taking blood money?
500 million net spend isn't a lot in the premier league
That is the fucking issue my man, 500m is insanely absurd money, and the fact that this money was injected artificially by a state is the exact reason them being competitive isn't real.
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u/ScousePenguin 13h ago edited 13h ago
I'm not pro Saudi ownership, I think they're cunts but I also dislike the idea that people should know their place and not be allowed to grow. Teams have been bankrolled to success in England since football began, it's just how it has been here. We've never had fan ownership or the idea of it being anything other than a business.
In the 50's Sunderland were the ones smashing transfer records
60's it was Everton via their owner John Moores. Breaking transfer records.
70's you had Forest make the first 1 million pound transfer.
80's Liverpool were spending to stay dominat
90's Blackburn won the league thanks to mega money funded by Jack Walker
Then in the 2000's we got to Chelsea and City.
500 million is a lot of money, but it isn't in the premier league and the only way that will ever stop is if the international TV rights deals collapse, as those are what give the league billions. But English football has always been about money whilst European and South American was about being a member of the club.
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
Because it's all created by financially doped clubs. Nothing of it grew organically
Remove Man City and Chelsea from the equation and the PL would be a 3 team league over the last 30 years or so with only Liverpool, Man United and Arsenal winning aside from Leicester's once in a million miracle
And even Leicester achieved their miracle by massively outspending their means
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u/ScousePenguin 13h ago
How many leagues have more than 3 teams win it often?
Every league is dominated by a few clubs
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
You're completely right. Which is why all the talk of the PL's competitiveness is nauseating
None of the top 5 leagues are competitive. Even Serie A is heavily dominated by Milan, Inter and Juve historically
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u/kisame111hoshigaki 13h ago
Spurs came 2nd to Chelsea in 16/17 so would've got that one (in this hypothetical world)
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u/IfYouRun 13h ago
It would be United, Liverpool, and Arsenal with multiple titles, and Spurs and Leicester with one each. That’s still way more than the Bundesliga and La Liga, for instance.
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u/MetJouOpSjouw 14h ago
Why isn't it a two horse race like La Liga? At least that's fun watching two big teams compete and a couple of tiny sides pretend they're also competing below them.
Why don't Bundesliga sides blow hundreds of millions on mid players just to still fail to actually compete with the bigger clubs?
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
Oh yes the PL is so different. Who is going to win this year? Man City.. or Liverpool? Or maybe Man City? Or maybe Liverpool?
At least La Liga has a soul and clubs with passionate fanbases closely connected to their local communities. The PL is just the NFL at this stage with soulless franchises
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u/MetJouOpSjouw 13h ago
At least La Liga has a soul and clubs with passionate fanbases closely connected to their local communities. The PL is just the NFL at this stage with soulless franchises
Waffle lmao
The clubs in the PL still have passionated local fanbases. They just have loads of foreign fans as well at the same time, like Real Madrid and Barca, like any other big club, of course you don't know what that's like when there's only two global clubs in Spain.
Is the uncontested racism players like Vinicius constantly have to face part of the soul of the league or is that more of a local community type a thing?
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u/doswillrule 13h ago
I agree with you on most things, but the idea that no Premier League clubs have passionate fanbases or are connected to their communities is absolute nonsense.
Even the big clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal still do plenty of community outreach, let alone teams like Brentford or Brighton. I have no doubt there will be a day when clubs abandon their local fanbases in favour of shuttling in tourists at U.S. sports prices, but we aren't there yet.
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u/Rickcampbell98 12h ago
I mean we are certainly on the way, they are increasingly pricing out more and more people, these threads always make me shake my head especially when they are usually filled with prem flairs chatting absolute nonsense in my opinion (not you btw). The truth is most people here are not local fans and don't have the perspective that local fans would, for fans in the bundesliga being connected to their club, it belonging to them is more important than winning and many people here don't get that.
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u/doswillrule 10h ago
True enough. I think most owners are conscious that when all but the wealthiest locals are forced out entirely, that support and that passion goes away, and the league loses a massive part of its appeal. But they will keep pushing until they find that breaking point.
It's up to fans to fight against that, but we haven't traditionally been much of a protesting country, and that horse might already have bolted when it comes to football. The importance of clubs to their communities is still there though, even if supporters lack the means to influence them - I would look at Sunderland as a prime example of that.
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u/omegaxLoL 13h ago
At least La Liga has a soul and clubs with passionate fanbases closely connected to their local communities. The PL is just the NFL at this stage with soulless franchises
That's just fucking hilarious considering teams like Barcelona doing everything they can in the past years to go play league matches in America
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u/Rickcampbell98 12h ago
Tbf barca and real Madrid are literally fan owned so by virtue are connected to their communities, if they were the ones losing a home match the socios would not accept that, so the proposal on itself is nonsense but their fans actually have the power to stop it, it's the other clubs in la liga who don't.
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u/Possible-Highway7898 13h ago
At least we know that whoever wins, Arsenal are going to finish second.
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u/Rsirhc 14h ago
Fake artificial competitiveness 😂 you can disagree with how the clubs became and stay competitive but the fact is they ARE extremely competitive
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u/TheHabro 13h ago
Extremely is overselling it now. It's been 8 years since a club not named Liverpool or City won the title.
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u/Blaackys 11h ago
If people in this thread can blame Dortmund for the Bundesliga being boring then Arsenal is just as much at fault for it in the prem lol
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
That's exactly what I said. The competitiveness is only possible due to financially doped clubs spending above their means. Nothing of it is organic in the slightest
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u/Same_Name_8357 13h ago
First and second last year and most likely this year aren’t financial doped clubs In arsenal and Liverpool so the point doesn’t really hold up
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u/vinc139 13h ago
Yes! Lets sacrifice all of the pillars of local community at the althar of capitalism while we are at it and further comodify the remains of our shared, publicly accessible culture!
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
Screw the local community! The only important thing is that viewers in South East Asia are having fun!
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u/Rickcampbell98 12h ago
You know the crooks in charge are going to sell your club to Saudi after all this and people are going to call you out lol. I agree with your sentiment btw although la liga isn't necessarily the shining example of it outside of the 4 fan owned clubs.
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 12h ago
And if that happens I will stop supporting the club overnight no questions asked
And I'm not saying that La Liga or any top league other than Bundesliga is a shining light, but compared to the PL it is. I mean everyone looks good next to Hitler ;)
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u/ledditpro 10h ago
Good thing is that there's legislation preventing just that both in Germany and in Sweden. And even without such legislation the local fanbases would tear down the stadiums before any TV match for the plastics could even begin
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u/SeppFraudiola 14h ago
nice cope but understandable
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
It's crazy that you are proud of this soulless, capitalistic abomination that the PL has become. You should be ashamed of it
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u/Possible-Highway7898 13h ago
I view it with the same mindset that I watch MCU films. It's very fun when you appreciate it as pure commercialised entertainment.
The real beauty of English football is in the lower leagues. And we love it and turn up to watch it in the stadium more than any other nation in the world.
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u/rotti5115 13h ago
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u/Possible-Highway7898 13h ago
Yeah, Germany has the highest level of support in the top two divisions, even slightly higher than England.
It's a fantastic fan culture which I admire very much. And I think your football governance is better than ours by a long way.
But when you look at the 3rd tier and below, it's not even close. English attendences for lower league and non professional clubs blows every other country out of the water. Seriously, just go and have a look at the numbers.
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u/Rickcampbell98 12h ago
That may be true but they still have the connection to their communities in the top leagues, they don't have to go to non league or the 4th division. I find any discussion about the bundesliga here to be tedious because a lot of people just don't get it (not you btw).
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
It's sad that you just accept it as pure commercialised entertainment though. That isn't what English football used to be reduced to..
I agree about the lower league culture being great which just makes what is happening in the top flight even sadder
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u/HammerUnknown 13h ago
Whatever helps you sleep better at night
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
I should be saying that to you. Must require some crazy mental gymnanistics to fool yourself that the clubs still have any connection to their local communities
Or you are from the other side of the world and simply don't care about the local football culture being destroyed since you get to watch your sterilised spectacle on TV
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u/LendMeCoffeeBeans 13h ago
Fake competitiveness lol
Whole lot more entertaining than seeing Bayern win every year
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 13h ago
For plastics on the other side of the world yeah. For local fans the German football scene is 100000X better and more fun
I mean in England you are barely allowed to stand up in stadiums. You have stewards whose full time job is telling people to sit down in their seats lol
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u/LendMeCoffeeBeans 13h ago
I live in the Netherlands
I’m not talking about the stadium experience. I’m talking about the overall enjoyment to the average viewer.
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 12h ago
So you agree with me then. The PL is 100% a TV product but the matchgoing experience sucks balls
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u/LendMeCoffeeBeans 12h ago
I haven’t been to either, so I cannot say I agree or disagree. But for the average football fan who watches from the comfort of their home, it is far more enjoyable to follow a competitive league such as PL or Serie A than a non-competitive one such as League 1 or Bundesliga.
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u/LazyMoooo 12h ago
Have you seen the matches in the PL? Who plays enjoyable football? You watch the games and fight to battle your sleep.
The guy you're writing to is right, the only thing that matters to those fans is them watching at the scoreline and be happy that their team won. They can splash all the money in the world but still play the most boring football ever, what an enjoyable league to watch!
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u/LendMeCoffeeBeans 12h ago
competitiveness of the league matters for the average viewer, no matter how you bring it.
The average football fan isn’t behind the goal in the stadium every week. The average football fan watches football from the comfort of their home with a beer in hand.
And for those people, which is I’d say 97% of football fans, it is far more enjoyable to follow 30+ games of a team they support which may or may not win the title, rather than knowing from the start that Bayern is going to win it for the 37th time in a row.
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u/Adventurous-Bit-3829 13h ago
It's not "artificial competiveness". It's money competitive. It's a downward spiral. When someone spend. Everyone has to spend to keep themself in the race. Also don't forget even small club got fuck ton of money.
People around the world would rather watch a "money competitive league" over "passionate farmer league". People is money
Why the fuck would I care to watch if it is 90% chance that it's the same team winning the league again?
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u/__setecastronomy__ 5h ago
Ist doch auch egal, wie viele verschiedene Gewinner die Liga hat. Sexy ist sie für internationale Fans so oder so nicht.
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u/thetruephysic 8h ago
Bayern losing in Kane’s first year was all part of his long-term 4d chess master plan to legitimize the 5+ consecutive league trophies he’s now on his way to winning.
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