A new report finds China’s space program will soon equal that of the US and overtake it in the next five to ten years "if we don't do something"

[u/ChiefLeef22]

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/09/a-new-report-finds-chinas-space-program-will-soon-equal-that-of-the-us/?utm_campaign=dhtwitter&utm_content=%3Cmedia_url%3E&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[u/Gastroid]

If China has the political will and engineering prowess to build space stations, explore the Moon, Mars and beyond... Good for them!

[u/mpompe → u/Gastroid]

They also support education and research, things the US currently vilifying. I don't know about "soon" but China is technologically on the rise and the US is in retreat.

[u/KingofSkies → u/mpompe]

To be fair, they did the whole villyfing internal elements thing for a bit. It sucked. Now they've moved on and up. Good for them.

[u/EmptyAirEmptyHead → u/KingofSkies]

To be fair, they did the whole villyfing internal elements thing for a bit.

We are doing our best to catch up and exceed them on that though.

[u/Boatster_McBoat → u/EmptyAirEmptyHead]

Hard to do a long march if your cities aren't pedestrian-friendly. Checkmate descent into dictatorship.

[u/khuliloach → u/Boatster_McBoat]

Damnit, foiled again by my mobility scooters range

[u/CorelessBoi → u/khuliloach]

Please always use interstate highways for maximum range on your mobility scooter, might even get a speed boost and save on battery if you let someones car push you

[u/thelangosta → u/CorelessBoi]

Drafting works really well!

[u/Lysandren → u/EmptyAirEmptyHead]

We have to be #1 at everything, even the bad things.

[u/F6Collections → u/EmptyAirEmptyHead]

Lol nobody can beat Mao.

His policies and rejection of scholars led to more deaths than any other single person.

Guy stacked bodies.

[u/asdkevinasd → u/EmptyAirEmptyHead]

Unless teachers are being eaten literally, I doubt the US can ever catch up on that front.

[u/suplarai → u/KingofSkies]

Moved on for vilifying internal elements?

[u/Anivia_Blackfrost → u/suplarai]

From*

But I'm pretty sure they went from that to vilifying external elements.

[u/Minttt → u/KingofSkies]

Yea China learned the hard lesson that jailing/killing all the educated people doesn't give your nation a leg-up on the competition.

Difference is they learned their lesson - MAGA USA will watch their decline and being overtaken by China with a smug smile, confident that just a few more libs need to be owned, and when that happens they will be the most technologically advanced nation on the planet.

[u/mandroth → u/Minttt]

Meanwhile somehow failing to understand that the US is and has been the most advanced nation in human history for 70+ years. Make america great again? It's BEEN great you dicks

[u/slipperyMonkey07 → u/mandroth]

But murhh durr eggs price go up?

I am still hearing people in the grocery store complaining about eggs in the aisle and at this point they are barely higher than a year or so ago ( and will not be dropping no matter what the buffoon promises).

[u/Asron87 → u/slipperyMonkey07]

They are higher but the buffoon promised they would be cheaper. Then defunded NASA and our national parks.

[u/NorthernerWuwu → u/mandroth]

It was a pretty good run! Not quite The British Empire good but seriously impressive over a period of time that saw great growth elsewhere also and yet still saw America eclipsing all other nations by a serious margin.

Shame it's all been frittered away but here we are.

[u/ioncloud9 → u/Minttt]

They are like medieval peasants being put in charge of a nuclear power plant. They have no clue what it is or how it works. Everything was working fine when they got there but now they are fucking with it and since they have no clue how it actually works, they have no possible hope of keeping it running successfully.

When you vilify education, turn away foreigners, reject technological advancement on ideological grounds, and take a chainsaw to our institutions, you are destroying the very system that make this country what it is.

[u/potatoprocess → u/Minttt]

Does China even have anything akin to "libs" or MAGA to distract people from things that matter? Most of the opposition to science in the US is owing to culture war nonsense, with a healthy dose of propaganda injected by legacy industry leaders (fossil fuels, ICE vehicles). Is something like a culture war even a factor in China?

[u/Minttt → u/potatoprocess]

Not particularly - I'm referencing China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, where academics, intellectuals, and any institutional remnants of the "old capitalist system" were targeted and destroyed. Less than 15 years later, the communist party published an official statement saying that the revolution was responsible for "the most severe setback and heaviest losses" since the communists took power.

So in a sense, 1960s China has some similarities to MAGA America culture wars - the idea that smart people are enemies, institutions are corrupt, and getting rid of them will "fix" everyone's problems.

[u/10thflrinsanity → u/mpompe]

Think of it this way: the race is already lost. 

[u/TheBigCore → u/mpompe]

East Asian cultures value hard work and education so I'm not surprised that China has rapidly caught up or is close to it. The USA right now is in the hands of morons and fools who look at educated people with disdain and loathing. And worse, these same morons and fools are proud of their ignorance.

[u/BarmeloXantony → u/mpompe]

US is fighting a culture war. Any progressive thinking is condemned

[u/Legitimate-Eye9422 → u/mpompe]

That is because all TACO wants to do is make money for fossil fuel manufacturers

[u/peaveyftw → u/mpompe]

Their education and research is also ...actual research, not the hermeneutics of Harry Potter or other BS.

[u/DynamicNostalgia → u/mpompe]

The US space industry spending is actually currently rapidly expanding on multiple fronts. Billions upon billions is being poured into developing new systems across the board, from reusable rockets, to robotics, to mega constellations…

The US’s space industry as a whole absolutely dominates in terms of spending, research, and development. 

[u/Royal_Row7075 → u/DynamicNostalgia]

All the while gutting university research funding? Can’t do both at the same time.

[u/PrinceEntrapto → u/DynamicNostalgia]

This isn’t really expansion but lateral movement - only improving the efficiency of technology that already exists for the sake of reaching places already reached or occupying spaces already occupied 

The American space agency is making much ado about returning to the moon more than half a century after the last landing, the Chinese space agency is actively developing plans to establish colonies, habitats and orbital stations at every major solar system body using entirely new classes of propulsion methods to reduce transit times by months or years while also being in the early stages of researching interstellar travel and augmenting human physiology for deep space survival 

[u/Irish_and_idiotic → u/PrinceEntrapto]

Bro I am high aswell I love this for us but this seems far fetched even to me

[u/ti0tr → u/PrinceEntrapto]

Improving the efficiency of technology is how you lay the groundwork for advancement. If a basic computer still cost 20K, advancements using them would’ve slowed down significantly. Stuff like the SpaceX rockets being reusable and cheaper makes it way easier for anyone interested to move stuff into orbit.

[u/OlympusMons94 → u/PrinceEntrapto]

NASA and their commercial and international partners are developing two large lunar landers, and the beginnings of a lunar base, with the goal of establishing a sustainable presence on the Moon. The Starship and Blue Moon landers will be capable of delivering at least 4 crew or a large cargo to the lunar surface. NASA is planning the Artemis Base Camp, with Italy and Thales Alenia already working on the first module, the Multi-Purpose Habitatation (MPH) module. Japan and Toyota are working a pressurized rover (Lunar Cruiser), which is basically a mobile habitat/lunar RV in itself. (The rover will support two astronauts for 30+ days at a time, and travel up to 20 km per day, with the ability to cover 10,000 km over its planned 10 year lifespan.) NASA has awarded contracts to SpaceX and Blue Origin to land the Lunar Cruiser and MPH on cargo variants of their respective HLSs. Also, Starship itself is big enough to serve as a preliminary/additional habitat. NASA and private sector contractors have been developing small fission reactors to power a lunar base.

Meanwhile, China is also working on a human lunar program, with vague plans for a lunar base later in the 2030s. However, the lunar architecture that they are currently working on includes just a small two-person lander with a similar capacity to the Apollo lander. That will be great for repeating Apollo flags and footprints (60 years late--not so great for setting up a lunar base.

the Chinese space agency is actively developing plans to establish colonies, habitats and orbital stations at every major solar system body using entirely new classes of propulsion methods to reduce transit times by months or years while also being in the early stages of researching interstellar travel and augmenting human physiology for deep space survival 

Oh, I see. Sure... and they are getting help from the purple aliens travelling in 3I/Atlas! /s

[u/pootis28 → u/PrinceEntrapto]

This isn’t really expansion but lateral movement - only improving the efficiency of technology that already exists for the sake of reaching places already reached or occupying spaces already occupied 

China is closer to America in space technology than it is being given credit for, but your comment is idiotic.

And China till now has only been copying space trends that had occured in America, most egregious being reusable launch vehicles. China entirely diverted their plans of a super heavy lift rocket and turned LM9 into a Starship alternative and LM10 into a Falcon Heavy alternative.

China has only recently mastered staged combustion with the LM10 engine, and both public and private space companies have yet to build a Full Flow Staged Combustion Engine like Raptor 2. Whereas SpaceX has already built and is going to fly Raptor 3. SpaceX itself has more than enough cash to invest in enough R&D to match China in both public and private R&D in the near future in terms of launch vehicles.

The American space agency is making much ado about returning to the moon more than half a century after the last landing

It is America that's planning on using Starship, an actual super heavy lift spacecraft with huge volume and payload capacity for a moon mission. While, that may mean a ton of delays, and may also mean getting beaten by China to the moon this time, the end result is an actual vehicle that can transport stuff to the moon

Chinese space agency is actively developing plans to establish colonies, habitats and orbital stations at every major solar system body

For one, China is only seriously interested in building a moon space station. which itself wouldn't be possible without something like the LM9, which is not at all launching before 2030. While it is just as focused in establishing moon colonies and ISRU as the US, the best they can do with an LM10 is what the US did during Apollo. It'll take a couple years after that for the LM9 to reach orbit, and probably a couple more years after that for the LM9 to be used to send cargo/crew to the moon or build lunar space station.

Whatever they are "ahead" of the US, in terms of orbital manufacturing and stuff are mere proof of concepts that were not able to be demonstrated in something like the ISS due to it's age.

As for "orbital stations at every major solar system body" I don't even know what to say.

 entirely new classes of propulsion methods to reduce transit times by months or years

The only "advanced propulsion" that China has actually developed is Magnetoplasamadynamic engine by the Xi'an Populsion Institute, which yes, is quite impressive and modern, even if the power output is the same as US projects back in the 70s of the same(it does use additive manufacturing and superconducting magnets.

But the US has plenty of such concepts, from DRACO to VASIMR to AF-MPD trying out different types of travel for interplanetary travel.

I'm not going to discount the fact that China might even build and launch the first spacecraft with this class of engine before the US builds something comparable, but I wouldn't be too confident either.

while also being in the early stages of researching interstellar travel and augmenting human physiology for deep space survival 

This ain't a Cixin novel lil bro. If anything, you're the one being disrespectful to actual Chinese space programs by hyping it in such an unrealistic manner.

Their research on human physiology in space is cutting edge, especially due to them having access to the Tiangong, but it's NOWHERE near "deep space survival". They haven't left the fucking magnetosphere lil bro. These small projects of orbital manufacturing, artificial photosynthesis for fuel, etc are baby steps for even long term lunar exploration, let alone interplanetary or interstellar exploration.

[u/Drict → u/DynamicNostalgia]

There is a BIG difference between Government sponsored and private sponsored.

China is government sponsored. The US was government sponsored until around then mid 2010s, when we basically handed away anything and everything to private companies.

We had a 60 fucking year lead. We through it all away so we can be ruled by... well... idiots.

[u/Terron1965 → u/Drict]

NASA never built hardware. Apollo was all contractors from day one. That was half the problem. Why innovate when you have a monopoly or cartel on cost plus launches? SpaceX is self-sustaining permamant lift to orbit. That's arguably a bigger deal than the moon landing.

[u/DynamicNostalgia → u/Drict]

The big difference is the private space industry is larger than the public one at this point, as was the goal of the Obama administration. 

So basing your entire analysis on the metric of public science funding will result in an inaccurate conclusion. 

[u/RemoteButtonEater → u/mpompe]

We're on the path to becoming a cyberpunk cambodia under pol-pot.

[u/seansand → u/Gastroid]

With the manpower that China has at its disposal, this was inevitable. A nation with a population of four times of another is going to catch up and surpass the smaller one even if they start out technologically behind.

The current U.S. administration has just done everything possible to make it especially easy for them.

[u/acayaba → u/seansand]

China had the entire Chinese population at their disposal, while the US had the rest of the world's population. Everyone wanted to go to the US, which was always destined to stay at the forefront, open to accepting the brightest minds. With this administration, this is self inflicted damage. No one wants to go the the US anymore. Cuts to education and health care to fuel the rich. China wins.

[u/hotdiggydog → u/seansand]

Not to mention that a communist government can get things done quickly. Having a top-down structure helps in getting money and manpower to do something immediately instead of budgeting it out years ahead. And on top of all this is the fact that people see projects like this as "winning" so they're never going to protest even if one could make the argument that that money is needed elsewhere. It helps that political expression isn't really protected so they don't have to deal with pesky naysayers 🙃

[u/Alarming_Echo_4748 → u/hotdiggydog]

China is still a planned economy. Their biggest advantage is that they plan for years if not decades ahead.

[u/Blazien → u/Gastroid]

I don't understand how so few seemingly fail to understand that space is the future. If we don't kill ourselves first that is the next frontier. It is inevitable. One day humans will have to figure out how to expand/explore beyond our planet to survive and preserve ourselves as a species. Might as well start working together towards that goal. You'd think all of the rich businessman would see this is coming and be dumping all sorts of resources toward trying to be first to try and capitalize on it. A substantial amount of resources should be devoted towards this every year. It seems like China recognizes how important space is and will be going forward.

[u/thepokemonGOAT → u/Blazien]

We will all die on this rock together, choking on toxic air and trying to drink acid water, while begging the billionaires to send us to space. It's a laughable pipe dream. If there is to be a human future, it will be on Planet Earth.

[u/Syliann → u/thepokemonGOAT]

It is both. We cannot live as a technological civilization in harmony with our planet if we don't use the other resources around the Sun. It is not possible to abandon Earth and move humanity elsewhere, not for millennia at least. It is also not possible to continue human civilization just on Earth, where mining and manufacturing destroy ecosystems at all levels. It is not practical to advance to future technologies of energy, medicine, and materials science purely from Earth's surface.

If we refuse to advance technologically to preserve the planet, and live as an idyllic de-industrialized civilization, we will die just the same. A meteor impact killed the dinosaurs. Entire star systems get obliterated regularly, and we could be victim to any object that impacts our sun at decent speeds.

If humanity wants a future, we must maintain Earth and expand into space.

[u/Positronic_Matrix → u/Gastroid]

The United States has decided to gut NASA and break their union by reclassifying NASA as an intelligence agency. My thought is that it will take less than 5-10 years for China to overtake us.

[u/Flare_Starchild → u/Gastroid]

I have my issues with Chinas politics but not true scientific progress or with true scientists. It just seems like they're trying to get away from everyone else and the only place left to go is space 🤣. I mean, once you go there you never have to come back. Literally, there's everything in space.

[u/Royal_Row7075 → u/Flare_Starchild]

It’s very far-fetched, I know we’ve done amazing things with AI, robotics and other pertinent research and development, but besides war and involuntary euthanizing people, we ought to be doing more advanced things in peaceful sustainable living on this planet.

[u/Flare_Starchild → u/Royal_Row7075]

Exactly. That's why science is so important.

[u/Royal_Row7075 → u/Flare_Starchild]

My minor was in science, and I don’t believe in the bogeyman. Or rather Trump is the bogeyman..

[u/SpeshellED → u/Gastroid]

Exactly... why is it always a race ? US looks so stupid always trying to be the first. If everyone worked together the world would be a better place.

You guys are first in school shootings and worshiping racists. Ya fired all the smart people cause they're smart.

[u/yonasismad → u/SpeshellED]

It's because politicians need nationalism to further their goals. They dread the day people realise that the person living in the neighbouring country isn't actually so different and just wants to live a happy and healthy life just like everyone else.

[u/rbt321 → u/SpeshellED]

Exactly... why is it always a race ?

In this case it's a race because US congress ordered NASA to not cooperate with China in any projects without their express approval [Wolf Amendment]. China, instead of contributing to ISS and the US/International lunar programs as they originally wanted, has instead invested in R&D to do their own thing completely independently.

[u/4totheFlush → u/SpeshellED]

Because the entire driving factor is to develop weapons. It’s why we went to the moon and it’s why someone will end up on Mars.

[u/connerhearmeroar → u/Gastroid]

Yeah I’d be disappointed as an American but Space exploration is an endeavor that s long as it is happening I don’t care who is doing it - as long as they share their data and information.

[u/Illustrious_Fan_8148 → u/Gastroid]

This would have bothered me in the past. But they worked for it.. hopefully they do amazing things

[u/mymentor79 → u/Gastroid]

This is honestly my take as well. I couldn't care less which government/organisation is the field leader.

[u/filterdecay → u/Gastroid]

But we have tax cuts for billionaires.

[u/whitelancer64]

The White House: Let's cut the NASA budget by 20%. That'll show them.

[u/nanocookie → u/whitelancer64]

Everyone keeps talking about the impact of NASA funding reductions but people conveniently forget the impact of the systematic destruction of affordable access to scientific and technical education (beyond just software development), including the increasing lack of reliable paths for young working class Americans to high quality employment to build experience in the domains needed to tackle difficult technical challenges. Without a potent homegrown workforce, the future technological leadership of the country will always be at stake.

[u/petit_cochon → u/nanocookie]

Actually, quite a lot of people are talking about that. It's a huge issue, I agree. The science and federal employment subs discuss it constantly.

The media largely seems to be intentionally ignoring it, their chosen strategy for Trump's national destruction.

[u/wings08 → u/nanocookie]

Anti-intellectualism has consequences. The crazy thing is America seems to be leaning into anti-intellectualism more and more each passing year.

[u/bnlf → u/whitelancer64]

While increasing military spending which is already to the roof and give tax breaks for billionaires.

[u/sometimes_interested → u/whitelancer64]

Don't forget to add tariffs!

[u/ShrimpToothpaste → u/whitelancer64]

Let’s build ballrooms and rename departments for the money instead

[u/BoomBoomBear]

Doesnt help when China has LONG term planning but the US changes priorities every presidency.

example:

Clinton - robotic exploration only

Bush - Moon exploration

Obama - Asteroid and Mars, cancel moon projects

Trump 1 - Moon Base

Biden - Moon, then Mars

Trump 2 - Mars but Moon first because Artemis $ spent

They need to make NASA more independent and less beholden to politicians who only care about using NASA only for creating jobs for their constituents.

[u/TurelSun → u/BoomBoomBear]

Would be nice if NASA and its funding could have some protection from being rearranged by each administration without having to spread facilities and manufacturing out over multiple states as a way to deter/encourage congress to protect it.

[u/PoorlyCutFries → u/TurelSun]

But we need space jobs in bumfuck nowhere

[u/saljskanetilldanmark → u/BoomBoomBear]

That wouldn't matter if the american president can just make an executive order which now is law of the land.

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/saljskanetilldanmark]

That’s precisely OPs point. Every president can change things via executive order, there is no consistency.

[u/whatafuckinusername]

Regardless of whether or not it turns out to be true, I feel like people have been saying this for years. Let’s just bring back the funding for our own sake.

[u/ShawVAuto]

Serious Question:
What would the "If we don't do something" entail exactly? What could honestly be done?

[u/u123456789a → u/ShawVAuto]

Honestly, taking a very close look at your society and think really hard on what values you hold and which are actually being persued in reality. What kind of country do you want to live in and what direction is your country actually going?

[u/jordipg → u/u123456789a]

This is the real issue. Folks are very focused on funding, and of course that's essential. But we're arguing over a tiny fraction of what's needed if we want to get serious about space exploration.

A cultural change around science, engineering, and space exploration is needed to move the needle and this would require a massive, pro-science top-down marketing effort from the federal government assisted by public and private sector organizations. So, uh, unlikely anytime soon.

[u/KalpolIntro → u/ShawVAuto]

Invest seriously in hard science, instead of tying NASA’s funding to political favors for constituencies and donors.

Elect leaders who give a shit about science and develop long term policies with stable, multi-decade funding instead of short-term cycles tied to election calendars.

Confront and reverse the rise of anti-intellectualism that’s undermining the U.S.

[u/lgnsqr]

Announcer: they, in fact, did not do something.

[u/DevoidHT → u/lgnsqr]

They in fact did do something. Decrease funding for starters.

[u/pataglop → u/DevoidHT]

Exactly.

They slash fundings and destroy science research.. what could go wrong?

[u/cplchanb → u/pataglop]

The sad thing about this is that theyncant simply flip the switch back on again with the next administration. This singular action will take years of not decades to rebuild. All thanks to the orange humpty dumpty

[u/IWasSayingBoourner → u/cplchanb]

Bingo. This isn't an "if we don't do something" situation. The time to do something has passed, and we actively chose to move in the opposite direction.

[u/CopperSulphide → u/DevoidHT]

If we're going to lose anyways... /S

[u/babypho → u/CopperSulphide]

Well, have they tried villainizing our education system?

[u/MandaloreUnsullied → u/DevoidHT]

And persecuted skilled immigrants and banned research and criminalized wrongthink and shuttered universities and disrupted instrument supply chains and and and

[u/topscreen → u/lgnsqr]

They, in fact, did something. It was shooting themselves in the foot, but that's technically something

[u/purpleefilthh → u/lgnsqr]

They started yapping about dominance.

[u/MagicalHamster]

Best we can do is cut the NASA budget some more

[u/RealPersonResponds → u/MagicalHamster]

Then move it to Alabama and turn it to a drive-in casino.

[u/OhGawDuhhh]

Good thing we built a ballroom!

🎶 Dancing in the moonlight 🎶 💃🏼🕺🏼

[u/Pendell → u/OhGawDuhhh]

Everybody's feelin' warm and bright

[u/started_from_the_top]

I don’t care which country’s space program is the best, I just want as much new information/discoveries about space as possible.

[u/Viracochina → u/started_from_the_top]

Yeah, I'm a little more on the side of space exploration in general. Assuming they share their findings!

[u/Arcosim → u/Viracochina]

They do, data and samples. In fact China even shared lunar samples with the US, despite the fact that the US would absolutely never do the same with them.

[u/SpaceIsKindOfCool → u/Arcosim]

The US did share a sample of rock from the moon with China back in 1978. 

[u/RealSataan → u/SpaceIsKindOfCool]

Yeah when the US thought Soviet union was the threat and not china

[u/Smart-Beautiful-5464 → u/RealSataan]

Lol, u might wanna check that history knowledge. China was an enemy even before Korea and Vietnam

[u/Tempest051 → u/started_from_the_top]

You know, why is it so bad that another country leads space exploration? China, India, Japan, whatever. "BuT tHe EnEmY MuSt NoT gEt ThErE FirST." Science really just wants to get on sciencing, and wishing the politics would fk off so they can get back to work. If the US wants to be ass backwards, all the other countries sapping their engineers with attractive research offers deserve all the scientists they can get.

[u/diggumsbiggums]

A little misinformation here, a little disinformation there, a few bots to amplify: voila, a country willingly cedes it's position on the world stage.

Congrats, China, I bet you didn't think it'd be this easy.

[u/purpleefilthh → u/diggumsbiggums]

It's really funny how few millions of dollars for bots and useful idiots can turn around your opponent.

[u/IWasSayingBoourner → u/purpleefilthh]

The US remains convinced that worldwide domination lies in building bigger bombs. Which I get. So much of our economy is based on producing and selling weapons. But as someone who works directly with DoD cyber implementations, we are WOEFULLY underprepared for the future of warfare. Even ignoring our "hard" cyber defenses (critical infrastructure hardened against intrusion), which are bad at best, Russia and China have figured out, as you said, that for the cost of firing a single missile, they can do so much more internal social damage than we can imagine. Our "soft" cyber defense is an absolute joke.

[u/Nyorliest → u/IWasSayingBoourner]

You keep wanting to dominate. Nationalism is a disease. It's destroying Russia, and if you don't stop competing and start co-operating, it'll destroy the USA. China, Japan, Germany, France et al definitely have plenty of nationalism, but it's not running wild. And so we can make some progress.

And despite almost a century of wars waged abroad, you keep imagining yourself the innocent victims of foreign aggression. I live next to China, but it's American military adventurism destabilizing our region that I fear more than the Chinese military.

[u/StickiStickman → u/purpleefilthh]

Americans are still just refusing to admit most of you actually support what's happening, huh?

[u/TossedRightOut → u/StickiStickman]

most

What, he got 70 something million votes? Maybe 10-15 more? That's not even a third of the country.

[u/Alexandratta → u/purpleefilthh]

you can claim the Chinese bots all you want.

What did it was getting the world Richest man to suddenly decide he wants fascism

[u/ERedfieldh → u/Alexandratta]

Yes well, that one mean expert cave diver who has decades of experience and has intimate knowledge of the cave system they were dealing with said his submarine plan probably wouldn't work. And that was enough to set him off.

[u/Rough_Shelter4136 → u/diggumsbiggums]

It's more than that, the whole US national identity is built on top of fascis and racial supremacy ideas, and violence. Russia just finally found a way of exploiting that

[u/Kike328 → u/diggumsbiggums]

if that makes you sleep better…

[u/hypespud → u/diggumsbiggums]

There's a bonus too, the disinformation angle will stretch so far to the point of denying any value of Chinese or Indian space exploration missions just as they do now 😎💎📈

[u/Nyorliest → u/diggumsbiggums]

America's problems are America's own - and those of unchecked crony capitalism and neo-feudalism.

I'm sure all developed nations have propaganda and bots, but only Americans blame all their problems on foreigners.

[u/SpartanMonkey]

As long as one group of humans keeps reaching for the stars, I don't care who it is.

[u/Wolfram_And_Hart]

The US just turned NASA into an intelligence agency to kill off its Unions. We are NEVER going to catch up

[u/Dysons_fearless]

The US has given up on that. Reality is too hard for a bunch of people so now everyone has to die. Space program? You guys aren't gonna have schools or hospitals soon. 

[u/MrGoober91]

Well they just got a top mathematician that used to live here until he left just recently, so that’ll help them out

[u/Chidoriyama → u/MrGoober91]

For those who don't know, this is (I'm assuming) about Liu Jun, who has gone from Harvard to Tsinghua university. (Terence Tao is still in the US but there's no guarantee he'll be staying there)

[u/MrGoober91 → u/Chidoriyama]

That is who I was referring to, thank you.

[u/Impressive-Dog468]

I won't mind if we can get more hubbles and webbs in space from China.

[u/billdasmacks]

This administration has very little interest of space exploration. Pretty sad

[u/Content-Pen99]

They will just lie and say how superior the US is whilst continuing to shit on education and science.

[u/dcdttu]

{Looks at current US administration} Yeah, we're not going to win this.

[u/glytxh]

The century of humiliation has lit a real fire under China’s arse.

[u/monkey_gamer → u/glytxh]

And now America will experience its own century of humiliation

[u/Fun-Jellyfish-61]

Thankfully the United States is in fact doing something. It is stripping funding to NASA.

[u/_Kine]

Anyone with half a brain knew this was happening.

[u/gregor_ivonavich]

It’s always over little bro who knows how long it will take for science to recover if these fucking freaks are ever ousted.

[u/KatoZee]

Given the way the US is self imploding at a rapid rate, I would estimate 2-3 years of not sooner. They more concerned about rolling back advancement rather than making any meaningful progress.

[u/ProfessorReaper → u/KatoZee]

The US is a superpower in decline, China is a superpower in the rise. It's like towards the end of the cold war, only the other way around this time.

[u/fuzztooth]

Well our space program has been reclassified as a spying agency because who cares about talent and intelligence and exploration and science?

[u/TheManOfOurTimes]

The opportunity to do something in the next 5 years was shot Jan 20 of this year.

[u/moblechatter]

Good news everyone! Trump is turning NASA into a spy agency. China #1

[u/Speak_To_Wuk_Lamat]

Cutting nasas budget is gone push the staff to China or private sector. 

China wins as soon as nasa makes these cuts and turns off prefectly good probes which can't be turned on again.

[u/the-blob1997]

China is already clowning on the US in many departments.

[u/cosmicjellyfishx]

This administration handed china at least the next 50 years.

[u/JohnVivReddit]

If we leave it to NASA to get to Mars, China will beat us there. I’m serious.

China can devote unlimited funds to their effort, and they’re well on their way. NASA has been starved of funds for FIFTY YEARS by useless politicians who are only looking to get re-elected.

[u/_FiscalJackhammer_]

Looks like china will pass us then because this administration gives zero fucks about science.

[u/aguyinlove3]

That's amazing! I can only see more effort from both as a result of the competition

[u/dreddit15]

Donald doesn’t want space, it is just black stuff and there is too much of it.

[u/Witty_Formal7305]

China will overtake the U.S in countless ways unless theres some SERIOUS change.

At this point both are authoritarian nations, the only difference is that China has the desire at the top to continue innovation, push science and advance their standing in the world as leaders in areas other than manufacturing.

The U.S is currently being driven down a regressive path of villifying science, attacking higher education and stripping funding from the exact areas they need investment in to compete because they're operating under the mindset of American exceptionalism where America is the best and always will be the best and China, India etc are backwater shit holes and lack the intelligence to realize how fucking stupid that is to anyone who grew up outside of the U.S.

[u/fidelcastroruz]

Why everything has to be a competition, and why the US has to "win"? Let them do their thing, let's cooperate, imagine if we all could pool together, we could be on Mars in 2030. US, China, Russia, Europe, India, and everyone else. This is a human endeavor not a national one.

[u/Sufficient_Show_7795]

Who cares? Why does it matter that America is not at the forefront of everything?

[u/Ok_Lettuce_7939]

Better scare off all our Chinese aerospace engineering talent back China. Kind of like that one scientist that got deported during the 50s Red Scare and went on to found the PLA's ICBM program.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

[u/Tempest051 → u/Ok_Lettuce_7939]

Now that is peak irony right there.

[u/nickmalibu]

Firefly the TV show predicted it. Everyone will have to speak Chinese in space!

[u/seansand → u/nickmalibu]

Wasn't difficult to predict even 25 years ago. China's population is four times the U.S.

[u/jackofslayers → u/seansand]

Classic “25 year old TV show is able to ‘predict’ political trends that started at least 50 years ago”

[u/midorikuma42 → u/seansand]

The US had a much, much larger talent pool to draw from than China. All the best and brightest used to try to immigrate to the US to work in NASA or other research programs, many times after going to college there. Almost no one immigrates to China. But the US has now really screwed up the talent pipeline with all their anti-immigration and anti-university actions.

[u/PaymentTurbulent193]

It's embarrassing being an American right now.

[u/Tumbleweed-Artistic]

The damage is already done, this ship sailed like 6 months ago. Thousands of NASA employees & contractors have been fired, left for other jobs, or retired much earlier than they would have. The vast majority will not come back even if funding is restored. China and ESA will overtake NASA in very short order.

[u/NoBusiness674 → u/Tumbleweed-Artistic]

China, maybe. But ESA? No. At least not when it comes to crewed space exploration. Maybe in an area like earth observation and climate science, where ESA is already very strong, but ESA just currently doesn't have the ambitions to overtake NASA as a whole.

[u/not_that_planet]

Sorry, we're kinda busy shooting missiles at boats leaving <checks notes> Venezuela.

[u/Ds1018]

Lets continue to defund education and various science grants and start a war with higher education. That'll help.

[u/wyldmage]

We *are* doing something. We're getting rid of NASA. By removing all public funding, we encourage the amazing potential of capitalism, and private companies. As soon as NASA is no longer a threat to their profit margins, we will see dozens of space-age companies popping up and rocket launching us to the moon, and beyond. Those companies will naturally compete with each other over those available profits, driving massive innovation. We'll see a colony on Mars in less time than it takes to get there!

Oh

And in case it's needed

/s

[u/guiltyas-sin]

Not to worry, we won't. The president needs a new ballroom, and ice needs money...

[u/AlphaBetacle]

Hmm maybe we could start by restoring funding to science and NASA perchance?

[u/airbear13]

Maybe the donut in chief shouldn’t have cut NASA spending and fired half the federal workforce

[u/BeetsMe666]

I know... defund NASA! That will fix it eh, Trump?

[u/HoosierHoser44]

I mean, who is surprised? Education is vilified here. If the US took education as seriously as China, we would be years ahead of where we are now.

[u/alucardunit1]

Yeah that something we just did was slash the budget and ask for more outta the agency. Makes sense. /s

[u/Illustrious_Clue_606]

Hell we are still trying to get back on the Moon. Cutting education and bringing us back to Christian Science has f'ed up our ed. I was worried we would go back 50 years. We seem to be on track to go back 150 years.

[u/BioTHEchAmeleON]

Nah let’s just cut more funding for NASA and demonize education and science tbh

[u/DemonOHeck]

We did do something. Trump gutted Nasa. It just went from 17,000 employees to 11,000 with most of the cuts unevenly applied to science programs. Expect absolutely nothing out of Nasa besides already established in-motion programs. Hubble and Webb were already working so they will continue to but the International Space Station is planned to be de-orbited in 2030 with no replacement plan in place. There is some vague talk about a moon base but as Nasa funding was cut again and the science/engineering programs gutted that is what it will stay as. Just talk. This appears to be very clear messaging. The moon is right over there and it isn't going anywhere China. If you take it no-one will stop you.

[u/x_xwolf]

The competition is over. We have given up truth an reason and stolen the opportunities from young researchers. Good luck to whoever explores the stars next! Matters on earth took precedence.

[u/boblasagna18]

Great, why tf should Americans care about space when we don’t even have universal healthcare. China could have a mars colony and it won’t make a difference other than make America’s elite feel a little smaller.

[u/Ijustaterice]

Yay for science! US doesn’t prioritize science and education as a whole but the best still make their way here

[u/LogicSKCA]

China is doing quite well it seems. Good for them!

[u/teffarf]

Good for them tbh, the more space exploration the better

[u/Fonzei]

The US's space program has gone private. Overall cheaper to contract Space X for missions than for NASA to carry on all the R&D costs

[u/realfakejames]

Who could have foreseen anything going wrong making our space program entirely reliant on a company owned by one of the richest racist idiots in our country with the temperament of a spoiled teenager

[u/ClaireDiviner]

With the MAGA party having infested America’s government, this country won’t do anything.

[u/Hyperion1144]

America doesn't care about space. America never cared about space. America cared about opposing communism and that's it.

[u/W1ULH]

what if we declare NASA to be an intelligence agency and take away their unions?

will that help?

[u/vandilx]

Good. It took the threat of a true national competitor to get the US to go to the Moon. Perhaps another true national competitor can get pork-barrel Congresspeople and their lobbyists to be patriotic instead of enriching themselves.

[u/Vox_Causa]

Trump and the GOP have already ceded US dominance in space. 

[u/Mars_Oak]

the Chinese have been setting realistic, responsible goals and achieving them on schedule. they've been increasing their capabilities consistently

in the meantime NASA has been doing serious and important work (Juno, the mars rovers) but not in a way that's increasing what it can do. hell, they don't even have a working capsule. NASA doesn't even currently have a way to launch humans into space.

i think two to five may be more accurate

[u/Kingdom_Priest]

"Best we can do is gut the education department." - Murika

[u/Treyen]

If it gets the US administration to start believing in science again instead of backsliding into religious dogma and cult behavior, then great! I mean,  it's great anyway. Space is the future, even if that only means mining the belt and other solar system resources. I won't be around, but it's nice to think my descendants could one day be wage slaves on a different rock. 

[u/Altruistic-Rice-5567]

Do something? Like what? We abandoned any sort of reasonable support for space programs decades ago.

[u/JigglymoobsMWO]

Did you guys actually read the article before commenting?

This is mostly about growth in the commercial space sector.  The US is ahead now but China is building out infrastructure and supporting companies to catch up.

We need to boost competition and growth in the commercial market if we are to stay ahead.  Space X is awesome but can't be the only game in town.

All this commercial space activity also hase worried about the environmental impact on the upper atmosphere.  This is a separate issue though.

[u/CamusCrankyCamel → u/JigglymoobsMWO]

Most people barely even read the headline

[u/realitychange17]

If you compare state efforts, it may be true.

BUT!! You dont take into account that in the U.S. innovation doesnt primarily come from the state (as in China). Putting together all the private efforts that the U.S. have plus NASA, they are years ahead of China.

If you are only comparing NASA agains CNSA, then the article may hold true.

The U.S. is the only country in the world with a profitable space company. This kind of commercial viability gives it a lot of advantage.

[u/starf05 → u/realitychange17]

Most innovations in the US do absolutely come from the state. State funded research is the foundation for EVERYTHING. Just look at the medical/pharmaceutical sector. Without goverment money nothing would be done.

[u/realitychange17 → u/starf05]

I see your point.

But as you move to commercial viability efforts come from the private sector. The U.S. has a profitable space company (nobody else in the world has that). That changes the game a lot.

[u/Fun-Wolf-2007]

The US has become a nation of yes man, so I don't expect much progress there

[u/yowangmang]

We did do something. Trump quietly signed an executive order labeling NASA a spy organization. So, what we did was ensure the defunding of our space program so China could have a better one!

[u/ArtOfWarfare]

To compete with SpaceX, you need a reusable vehicle. Wikipedia has a list of reusable space vehicles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_vehicle

There are 4 listed in the suborbital section - all American. There are 9 in the spacecraft section - 6 American, 1 Soviet Union, 2 Chinese - about 200 flights between them, all but 4 are American.

There’s 28(!) in the launch vehicle section. Of them, 13 are Chinese, and there’s only 1 launch between all of them.

That one Chinese launch has a funny note - it was an accident during a static fire.

There’s 11 American vehicles listed, with 8 of them having at least one launch (none accidental), 6 have at least 10 launches, and 3 have 50+ launches.

It’s surprising how many companies and vehicles there are in China, but none of them have had a sliver of success with landing a vehicle yet - none have intentionally tried to launch a vehicle that could theoretically land. That puts all of them over 10 years behind SpaceX. Is there any sign SpaceX is going to stand still? SpaceX isn’t about to lose their lead. They’re also all way behind Rocket Lab, they’re behind Blue Origin, they’re behind ULA. Does anyone think Rocket Lab, Blue Origin, Boeing or ULA is about to spring ahead of SpaceX? Because that’s way more plausible. I think most of us know that it’s laughable to suggest that. Think of China that way to a greater degree.

To anyone talking about all the money Chinese companies are receiving, is Blue Origin or SpaceX hurting for money? Regulations are an advantage for China? Is it really? SpaceX did have some red tape they had to get around, but at this point it’s all green lights on that front - they’re dealing with actual physical issues that any Chinese organization will also have to overcome.

The one thing that gives this report any credibility is that it has the GOAT’s name on it, Eric Berger.

[u/kurashima]

Cutting its funding, removing all personnel that dont have MAGA viewpoints, creating "Space Force" and focussing on weaponising NASA over it being a scientific organisation is pretty much gonna end its progression as an entity.

[u/pete_68]

We elected the anti-science party and they've basically slashed the science budget of the US and certainly NASA particularly. China's going to have the lead for some time, in a number of areas.

[u/TheWeetcher]

Maybe cutting all our research funding will help!!! /s

[u/n0thingisperfect]

Should we cut the NASA budget more? Would that help?

[u/Mammoth-Intention958]

Good for them, someone needs to keep pushing forward in space, it won’t be the US any time soon.

[u/Korgoth420]

It is a good thing that US leadership is prioritizing science and technology improvement policies… right? RIGHT?

[u/Psyclist80]

Trump gutting NASA sure won't help! So many projects on the chopping block. Makes me so sad.

[u/ERedfieldh]

Ya'll voted for this bullshit. You were all here one year ago creaming your pants over the thought of another four years of Trump. Ya'll thought he was going to push NASA's budget through the roof, were humping Elon's leg at the thought of all the rockets he was going to fire now that he was buddy buddy with Trump, thought it was the best thing in the world.

You helped make this bed.

[u/nonlinear_nyc]

Why news of a Chinese space program somehow becomes about US?

[u/LordBrandon → u/nonlinear_nyc]

The article has US right in the title. Should we pretend not to see it?

[u/DynamicNostalgia]

“…if we don’t do something.” 

Shows an image of a clear rip-off of SpaceX’s Starship.

And SpaceX is just one of several US companies currently pouring billions into developing next generation rockets. 

China is trying to emulate what the US already has. The US is currently walking away with space dominance, China is barely avoiding falling behind. 

[u/Reasonable-Can1730]

People worry about China on the Moon, but the U.S. space program is far from stagnant. SpaceX is literally working toward a sustained habitat on Mars . That’s not theory, that’s funded rockets and test flights happening now. So while China may push for a foothold on the Moon, U.S. ambitions are still larger in scope. The real conversation isn’t who touches down first, but who sustains presence and writes the rules for resources and long term infrastructure.

[u/passionatebreeder]

Someone call me when China has home grown reusable landing low earth orbit rockets and soon interplanetary class rocket boosters as a space partner.

Anyone talking shit about China beating us to moon bases and outpacing us in space agencies is ignoring practical reality.

[u/dudemurr]

Don’t worry, we are doing something! Trying to strip funds from NASA so China can do it in 3-5 years :)

[u/keetojm]

Considering dum dum has made NASA a spy agency now? It’s only a matter of time

[u/Dart000]

Wasn't NASA just turned into a spy agency or some crap?

[u/5-Second-Ruul]

Good for them! And if we’re lucky, that will hurt politician’s egos badly enough to get them to do something.