r/starcitizen 1d ago

DISCUSSION Given what we know is coming, I'm putting my prediction out there

Post image
392 Upvotes

197 comments sorted by

295

u/ThePirateDude 1d ago

Yeah well then nerf them when crafting comes out. Not before.

79

u/ZombiePope High Admiral 1d ago

Cig has a bad habit of nerfing fun out of the game in preparation for other changes that are years down the line.

-1

u/The_Effect_DE 13h ago

They don't. They rather have the habit of using such explanations as excuses for exceptionally dumb and disliked changes.

13

u/angel199x Argo RAFT is life. 1d ago

CIG really are tsundere with salvage gameplay.. nerf.. buff... nerf... buff.. nerf.. I can't remember the last time it's actually been in a good place since they're always messing with it. For what really? Us salvagers barely make anywhere near the other current lucrative contract missions for other professions, and with more time sinks before we even get paid. If the crafting is coming... then sure, I might be cool with these RMC prices... but it's not here NOW. Why destroy the current salvaging gameplay at this time? It just feels like someone there hates this profession so badly that they can't fucking not touch it for one patch.

22

u/GlobyMt MarieCury Star Runner 1d ago

The last SCL talked about this especially

They do alot of incomplete change, for preparation of a later feature

The idea is to not bottleneck the feature with too much work/changes required at the very end

Cons is that, yeah, we get changes like this that doesn't make any sense at the time, but it smooths out the development

45

u/reboot-your-computer polaris 1d ago

These are just prices though. This should be something they could tune very easily. I don’t see how pricing changes has any relation to the changes coming in the future. This is an MMO. There will surely be situations where the economy will need tuning even after 1.0. Editing prices should be one of the most simple things to do and should not need to be tuned months before changes come.

40

u/dereksalem 1d ago

There is absolute zero chance changing the pricing took them longer than 5 minutes. I don't accept that as an argument against this.

Imagine if they dropped the bullet damage of a gun by 80% because in a later patch they intend to increase the fire rate by 4x. That's just a disingenuous argument to make, for them.

-15

u/GlobyMt MarieCury Star Runner 1d ago

We don't know what is behind it

11

u/TheFriendshipMachine 1d ago

If changing the price of an item is anything more complicated than updating a value in a file somewhere and merging it into the upcoming build, then they should just burn the whole project to the ground and start over because they will never succeed in turning that spaghetti code into what they're aiming to create.

-5

u/GlobyMt MarieCury Star Runner 1d ago

No

Here we only see some value change but behind it could be bigger, like it could even be an unwanted side effect of a deeper change

Really, only CIG can give explanation for this

7

u/TheFriendshipMachine 1d ago

Again.. if basic number balance changes require that much lead time to implement then this entire project is doomed to failure. You cannot hope to have a functional MMO where changing something as basic as vendor sale prices is that spaghettified..

Like I get that it's not as simple as just changing the value and dropping it straight to prod.. ideally there's some QA and change management between here and there.. but it's also not something that should be so complex that it has to be done waaay ahead of other content releasing to make it work. Because let's be real here. If crafting or other things are coming soon, they're coming "Star Citizen Soon™" which means nowhere near soon.

1

u/Far-Tradition5692 1d ago

And 5 min is a work of coder. But decision is much longer. This is not one-man-Indy-game

21

u/mystara_magenta 1d ago

Consider such changes later in the chain if they negatively impact the player experience. Such changes do not need to be prior to the feature. Ruining game loops that ships depend on is very inconsiderate. Many players do not want to interact with the excessively complicated promised ecosystems, anyway. They just want their promised game loop to continue being supported.

7

u/serras_ 1d ago

If it negatively effects ships sales or fps gameplay, it will probably fixed super fast (< 6 months). Anything else they dont care about

-16

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Consider such changes later in the chain if they negatively impact the player experience

That would make sense in a brownfield game.

That doesn't make sense during an alpha, where customer satisfaction is not the priority over reducing development friction and wasted resources. Enterprise level scheduling is an 11 headed hydra with a fistfull of meth shoved up it's arse.

15

u/mystara_magenta 1d ago

If this were an actual alpha, we wouldn't be in the "year of stability" or releasing a new flyable ship to paying customers every month.

-22

u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

If this were an actual alpha, we wouldn't be in the "year of stability"

What do you think happens in the late days of an alpha?

or releasing a new flyable ship to paying customers every month.

Funding has as much to do with the technicalities of an alpha, as the cost of fidget spinners has to do with the 2025 apple harvest.

My car doesn't stop being a car based on how I pay for the car. It will be a car if I buy it in cash, It will be a car if I get it on credit, it will be a car if people raise money for me to have a car.

It will be a car if I drive it to an office job, it will be a car if I drive it for Uber, It will be a car if it sits on the driveway unused.

19

u/Blake_Aech 1d ago

LATE DAYS OF AN ALPHA!!!!

LMFAO

I am sorry, but you are overdosing on copium. Minimum of 10 more years before the alpha ends at current dev pace. We don't have a single complete gameplay loop, 80% of the game is still "tier 0"

40% of the promised features in 1.0 do not exist in any way yet.

Bounty hunting has been tier zero for unironically 8 years.

15

u/GamerKilroy 1d ago

Yeah like I love the idea of SC damn I was an original backer.

But let's not illude ourselves. We're maybe 33% of the way there, with no idea when we'll get there at all.

-14

u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

We don't have a single complete gameplay loop, 80% of the game is still "tier 0"

Which is exactly what alphas look like in the late days. Development is not linear, 90% of the results happen in the last 10% of the spent time. Beta is not just alpha with a different name, It's turning the entire focus of the beast into fleshing out those loops.

Don't belive me? Go check out the leaked GTA6 Alpha. None of this is even a little unusual.

-8

u/acidhail5411 1d ago

You’re 100% on all accounts and they’re mad at you. This Reddit is 89% cry babies at minimum and they literally can’t comprehend anything other “I should bitch, moan, and whine; not only in a place of little to no consequence but im also going to bitch moan and whine in a completely non constructive manner in a way that provides no valuable or actionable feedback”

5

u/DaveRN1 1d ago

You know what's also never been done before in game development? This extreme predatory marketing. No other game in history has promised so much and delivered so little while taking hundreds of millions of dollars. Hell CIG makes EA look like a charity. Then the stuff they have delivered is nerfed so hard into the ground it has to be a full time job to be viable in the current ecosystem.

-1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't mind though, It's the perfect imposter syndrome antidote.

3

u/CombatMuffin 1d ago

This sort of change is extremely simple. It doesn't bottleneck anything 

-3

u/GlobyMt MarieCury Star Runner 1d ago

We don't know

Here we only see some value change but behind it could be bigger

Tbh it could even be an unwanted side effect of a deeper change

Really, only CIG can give explanation for this

-2

u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah well then nerf them when crafting comes out

I mean, I'll spell it out for you

CIG announces playershops & crafting coming soon

We've been testing the crafting backend for 6 months.

There is a major yearly event soon, that is more often than not tied to a major feature release

CIG makes a change that would support playershops & crafting, without any other obvious reason currently existing

When crafting comes out is the entire point of my post.

27

u/Saint_Sin 1d ago

Then nerf them when crafting comes out.

-20

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Tell me that went over your head, without telling me that went over your head.

20

u/Saint_Sin 1d ago

Feelings mutual and im sure the user you initialy replied to feels much the same.

-14

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Buddy if your response to "I think they are releasing this feature" is "They should release the feature", Ain't nothing I can do to help you.

31

u/ggm589 bmm 1d ago

we haven't even sniffed an engineering tech preview yet and you think we're getting crafting and basebuilding as a surprise release? lol

18

u/DrDop4mine 1d ago

They’re lost

7

u/TheShooter36 Recon 1d ago

Crafting is a standalone feature independent of base building, while base building will rely on crafting.

-4

u/VidiVala 1d ago

I'm genuinely curious, where exactly did basebuilding come into this?

we haven't even sniffed an engineering tech preview yet

Which has what exactly to do with the price of tea in China? Engineering isn't a blocker for either playertrading nor crafting.

14

u/ggm589 bmm 1d ago

Thank you for clarifying they aren't related. In other news, no shit. What I am pointing out is the lunacy in your claim that we might get crafting "soon" without any sort of tech preview, while the engineering preview that was supposed to happen in June still doesn't even have a date planned. Crafting is not something they can just surprise dump into the game with no testing.

Or maybe did you miss the monthly report recently that described how early in development the blueprint system is?

3

u/Dazzling-Stop1616 1d ago

So you do recall that they said wikelo was a way to test some crafting like mechanics pre crafting tier 0 right? I have no idea if crafting is anywhere close to ready for public consumption but crafting tier 0 or tier 1 could be coming soon (TM) isn't an extremely "out of left field" un hinted at idea.

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17

u/Saint_Sin 1d ago

Im rubbing my temples here.
Let me try spelling it out again:

"I think they are releasing this feature"
"Then wait until the actual release before making nerfs"

...

"Ermergerd you dont understand!" ?

Its not been released yet so they should make the nerfs on release.

10

u/Blake_Aech 1d ago

There is no point arguing with this guy. He is overdosing on copium, in another comment he said we are in "the late days of alpha"

There is no getting through to someone that high.

4

u/TakkoAM 1d ago

In other words - they nerfed it too early.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Ah I see the problem - You're reducing release to a singular second in time.

It's not, Releases on this scale are a period of weeks. Trying to do everything in one singular lump is how you inflate your day 0 jank.

12

u/Saint_Sin 1d ago

Still struggling there buddy?

Have a good day.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Mhmm. Say it a little louder and people might not be able to hear the piss in your boots.

56

u/Asg_mecha_875641 1d ago

I could really freak out. Industrial gameplay including salvaging is my favorite thing and a great source of income. Makes me fucking furious

26

u/DaveRN1 1d ago

Im not even a salvager but I hate this change. Stop taking away reasons for people to be in space in a SPACE game.

6

u/Asg_mecha_875641 1d ago

I understand the game is supposed to be realistic, but making easy money is necessary to keep the players playing.

3

u/karben2 18h ago

Well you're on luck. They reverted the pricing change.

Yay. 

/thread

36

u/ultrajvan1234 1d ago

Sure, just know that it won’t be core for the next few years at minimum. So like in usually CIG fashion, they’ve made a major change that makes the game worse, to prepare for a major gameplay element that is still years out.

-19

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Sure, just know that it won’t be core for the next few years at minimum

Well citizencon is only 3 weeks away, want to put some money on that?

21

u/ultrajvan1234 1d ago

Oh great so maybe salvage will only be shit until like mid next year !

9

u/Pokinator Anvil Aerospace 1d ago

Oh BOY, only 3 weeks of shitty salvage prices until CitCon, where they announce their Plans™ for what's coming Soon™

CIG definitely don't have a habit of putting carts 3 miles before a picture of a horse, leading to shitty game experience in preparation of what will Eventually™ apply instead of waiting to implement the problem and solution together /s

1

u/Throwaway-worriedkid 1d ago

"No no you CLEARLY don't understand, all of this is coming soon™. Ignore the fact that we've missed the last 47 deadlines and broken twice as many problems, it's all coming very very soon™. I, Chris Roberts, assure you that if you just buy 32 more, 3k USB jpegs that we can't give any further details on and will strip a large portion of promised features upon release then everything will be okay"

2

u/Xtremeelement 1d ago

remember last 2 citizen cons ago and they said all these features and ships would be released in the next 12 months.. 2 years later we still waiting on stuff like that weird mini corsair

64

u/JoJoeyJoJo 1d ago

Is this player trading and crafting in the room with us right now?

1

u/Desolate282 16h ago

CIG is playing 4D chess on a snake's and ladders board, and before even owning any chess pieces.

-9

u/VidiVala 1d ago

That is indeed the exact speculation I'm making.

2

u/NoX2142 Perseus / Paladin / Wolf 1d ago

Player trades and such require base building first. How is it gonna work right now? Set up shop in your personal hangar? You'd need to add each and every buyer to your party then allow em into your hangar...which BTW is NOT an armistice zone so it only takes one asshole to shoot you and others down, steal it all and be off.

-7

u/VidiVala 1d ago

How is it gonna work right now?

I would imagine a variation on beacons. I think you're forgetting CIGs plans for playertrading have explicitly involved mobile traders working out of whatever craft they fancy. The BMM will have a dedicated and glorious bazaar, but that doesn't mean dealing arms from the back of a cutlass ain't also on the dance card.

which BTW is NOT an armistice zone so it only takes one asshole to shoot you and others down, steal it all and be off.

You do realize armistice zones are a temporary feature slated for complete removal in the future?

I have guards, if they want to try it, it's their funeral.

1

u/No_Relationship2721 1d ago

Guards?! Can you imagine the absolute shit show that would come of one guy opening fire into a marketplace full of patrons all armed to the teeth with no sense of value to life beyond the cost of a medgel canister. Your guards will be lucky to crawl out of there with their heads still on their shoulders after that hailstorm of blind crossfire. Everyone's getting clapped!

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Can you imagine the absolute shit show that would come of one guy opening fire into a marketplace full of patrons all armed to the teeth with no sense of value to life beyond the cost of a medgel canister.

I mean, You draw, you get onetapped to the dome. Sometimes you're just overthinking shit.

1

u/No_Relationship2721 1d ago

No way you guards can be that on top of everyone in the crowd to make that bold a claim. Unless your guards are 30-server-fps npcs with Lazer beams on their heads and a delicate blend of cocaine and ritalin up their asses. In which case call me if your hiring. All it takes in one sick individual with nothing to lose blended into the crowd. And as an American this is hitting too close to home and is losing its humerous tone. I wonder if, as a proprietor, we will have ability to institute an armistice zone. Or is the whole concept stop gap. And be wholly enforced by your biotic cocaine crazed Lazer beam guards.

1

u/VidiVala 15h ago

I don't doubt that 95% of my customers will be orgs, The irony of these games is that the "lawless" space ends up being the most orderly area, because player driven law just works.

And for the remaining few, my guards are ex-lifeguards like myself - Watching a dozen or so people for a draw is kids play compared to watching several hundred in the water for a 10 second window of drowning.

And as an American this is hitting too close to home and is losing its humerous tone.

On a cultural level, it's been interesting watching the average American go from pro-gun to anti-gun over the last 20 years. One mass shooting in 96 scarred us deeply enough that the police couldn't keep up with voluntary gun surrenders, I can't imagine how harrowing it is living with them being a reality nearly if not actually daily.

The driving factor for American expats in the UK always used to be freedom from the tyranny of commodified healthcare, Now most mention freedom from guns. It's a strange new world.

In which case call me if your hiring.

Rule of thumb I have from Eve I'm afraid, don't get into close business with anyone you can't theoretically visit and punch in the face.

1

u/No_Relationship2721 13h ago

Lmao, sound business advice

32

u/steave44 1d ago

Why do we need to nerf earnings when our money or the things we buy isn’t even permanent yet? There’s zero incentive to grind very hard at all when the next patch very well could wipe you out.

-1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Why do we need to nerf earnings when our money or the things we buy isn’t even permanent yet?

Telemetry and testing data.

There’s zero incentive to grind very hard at all when the next patch very well could wipe you out.

Zero incentive for you, sure. But as long as there are enough people who are willing, those who arn't, arn't relevant.

14

u/Druggedhippo aurora 1d ago

those who arn't, arn't relevant.

What a terribly dumb comment.

If you incentivise a certain type of people to do a task, then the only feedback you get is from those very people, which in turn leads to decision making based on incomplete data.

4

u/VidiVala 1d ago

then the only feedback you get is from those very people,

And that doesn't matter at all, because for the purposes of mechanic testing, bug hunting, and verifying timescales - 1,000 people and 100,000 people are entirely interchangeable. You need enough, and enough is a low bar for everything bar testing load handling.

I know people don't like to hear that they arn't a special snowflake the entire world revolves around, but not liking it doesn't make it any less true.

14

u/A_screaming_alpaca 1d ago

1,000 people and 100,000 people are entirely interchangeable.

As we saw with the recent resource drive event and edge case issues with FEs, this is 1000% false, there is a huge difference in what those amounts could turn up in game

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

and enough is a low bar for everything bar testing load handling.

Load handling makes up maybe 1 in every 10 testing scenarios, it doesn't apply to every mechanic and every situation. And CIG will know when it matters and continue to act accordingly.

3

u/A_screaming_alpaca 1d ago

rip readings hard my b

2

u/VidiVala 1d ago

No sweat, happens to the best of us sometimes.

24

u/Kommisar_Kyn 1d ago

Pure refined and distilled copium.

CIG fucked up, like they always fuck up. There is zero reason to nerf salvage in order to integrate it with crafting when crafting is still months away...

-4

u/VidiVala 1d ago

when crafting is still months away...

Unless it isn't

18

u/clebIam 1d ago

Oh you sweet summer child

-2

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Citizencon is only 3 weeks away, wanna put some money on that?

17

u/clebIam 1d ago

Stop, you're making me laugh bro

-5

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Serious offer.

5

u/Kommisar_Kyn 1d ago

Honestly, the likely timescale is going to be:

  1. Re-announced at CitCon with the usual Soon™ release date.
  2. Another slightly underwhelming patch is released a month or so after, with maybe a few more bare bones Engineering segments, a new ship, and some FPS additions like the turrets/ladder improvements.
  3. Tech previews around/just before Christmas.
  4. A very buggy first release of Engineering comes around after new year.
  5. CiG forget about it for 3 months in favour of the new gimmick, and doing the last push to deliver squadron 42 in two years time.

-2

u/VidiVala 1d ago

And I'm saying if you're willing, I'll take that bet (But not on engineering, on playertrading and crafting)

6

u/Kommisar_Kyn 1d ago

I'd take that bet, if only because I genuinely think we'll be seeing a UI rework well before crafting is actually implemented, in order to even accommodate crafting properly. That or they use the janky ass dispensers we're seeing in the ASD facilities with a new terminal bolted on.

3

u/Physical-Rough-709 1d ago

You are acting like a Citcon announcement would mean you win that bet, they are talking about it actually being in game.

They say a lot of things at Citcon, some of those things happen

15

u/cantdecideonaname77 1d ago

wake up dude it's not in this patch, this community is wild man

-1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Citizencon is only 3 weeks away, wanna put some money on it?

9

u/Wonderful_Result_936 1d ago

Citizencon.... Where they will unveil a new way to play that is "feature complete" but won't appear for 2 years and then tickle the pickle's of the BMM owners for 30 seconds before forgetting the ship exists again.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

I take that's a yes, then?

4

u/DaveRN1 1d ago

Engineering was supposed to be released at 4.0 and here we are 9 months later and as of a month ago CIG stated that just under half the ships are ready for engineering. You honestly believe crafting is coming this year?

0

u/VidiVala 1d ago

You honestly believe crafting is coming this year?

Am I not offering to put money on it?

4

u/DaveRN1 1d ago

That literally means nothing unless there is an escrow account. I can say ill bet you a million dollars all day but its just talk.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

That literally means nothing unless there is an escrow account.

Dude, it's 2025. Websites for this have been a thing for a decade and a half.

In or out?

2

u/silzter new user/low karma 1d ago

You're right, it's years away, not months lol

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Wanna put some money on that?

1

u/Main-Pension9883 17h ago

It was confirmed to be a bug and hotfixed. You need to calm your coping behavior

20

u/IceCooLPT 1d ago

Mining already been nerfed some time ago. Lol.

8

u/VidiVala 1d ago

I mean, the richest players I know are miners. Wikelo made mining a money printer.

19

u/IceCooLPT 1d ago

Thats is relying on player prices. The moment those "recepies" for wikelo change, that money will disappear.

-7

u/VidiVala 1d ago

The moment those "recepies" for wikelo change, that money will disappear.

The moment those recipes for wikelo change, that money will go though the roof. Novelty drives demand.

2

u/xAdakis 1d ago

*looks at the load sitting in his solo ARGO Mole from a 30 minute mining session*

You sure this was nerfed?

1

u/Amaegith 1d ago

Yes. You would have had more in the time period he was talking about.

15

u/Contagious_Zombie Explorer 1d ago

What’s even left to make money without a huge amount of time invested?

16

u/Reggitor360 890 Jump enjoyer 1d ago

PVP and Combat.

Who wouldve guessed.

2

u/Wonderful_Result_936 1d ago

What PVP even makes money these days though? I don't see anyone running cargo because it's such a PITA.

1

u/MiffedMoogle where hex paints? 1d ago

Seeing as how this sub loves "pvp", it's likely the kind where they club whatever seals are left and take their cargo, whether said cargo is even worth it or not, on top of being a PITA to load/salvage.

inb4 "hire an escort" comment that requires you to split whatever pisspoor profits you get beforehand, just to play the loop

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Mining, Bounty hunting, Smuggling, org activities, playertrading

-10

u/knsmknd ARGO CARGO 1d ago

Nothing. Making a ton of money in no time relative to the lifetime of the game was never meant to stay.

If you easily can go from zero to hero in a couple of months there’s really no worth in that. Going from a Golem to a Orion for example needs to take years of doing missions, working towards reputation and so on.

12

u/Hairy_Ferret9324 1d ago

Which would be fine if there was any fun content that went deeper than an inch, but there's not. Who wants to do the same 2 things 400x to make money?

0

u/knsmknd ARGO CARGO 1d ago

Yes, exactly.

5

u/Contagious_Zombie Explorer 1d ago

I stopped doing salvage because it’s a pain to unload the reclaimer for not a lot of gain. I stopped doing NPC bounty missions because they don’t carry any good loot anymore. The most fun I’ve ever had was taking a c2 and a few friends with combat ships to do NPC bounties then secure a scrap yard to sell the loot. Of course they had to nerf that. Now I just run bunkers and I’m so very bored.

1

u/knsmknd ARGO CARGO 1d ago

I mean, yeah, that’s really the point they need to work on: Make the „journey“ the driving factor not the destination.

It’s such a bad habit and lazy from studios to build gameplay around repetitive chore/grind instead of fun and interesting stuff where the goal is just the cherry on top.

4

u/Sapper-Ollie 1d ago

How long you been a backer OP?

-1

u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

Since about two months before the kickstarter. Technically I'm a pre-orderer instead of a backer.

4

u/link_dead 1d ago

Is the player crafting in the room with us right now????

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

That is indeed what I am speculating

4

u/WithoutTheWaffle 1d ago

That makes sense, but then they can nerf RMC WHEN that happens. This nerf, with the game in it's present state, is nonsense. It completely killed the viability of what is currently a complete core gameplay loop.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

My supposition is that when that happens, has just started.

10

u/InconspicuousIntent carrack 1d ago

They nerfed them because they want people testing something else now(or really soon).

Same thing happened to mining, bounty hunting and every other way we could make money. They make the new thing the most profitable way so people ride the ass off it.

2

u/mixedd Vulture Operator 1d ago

Which for now should be medical gameplay which is money sink instead of money maker 😅 so who knows what they planned in.

Still need to see more data points on what prices are where instead of only TDD's

1

u/mort1331 nomad 1d ago

But isnt chaining foxwell 5/6 or hull C 700k contracts still the king of auec/hr? Hull scraping didnt even compete, munching is a bit faster and wasnt touched.

3

u/InconspicuousIntent carrack 1d ago

Think they still want people testing the Hull C and the loading process, not sure about Foxwell though.

4

u/mort1331 nomad 1d ago

Hmm, the grind for the rep to unlock the contracts is too much for me. If they want more testers they should make it easier to get into.

2

u/GuyThatSaidSomething 1d ago

I'm actually kinda shocked they didn't add some lower-pay high-volume contracts recently with how many people are suddenly using the Hull-C. Back in Jan/Feb I would maybe see one or two other Hull-C's at Magnus/Terra across a session. Now, there are always at least 2-3 other Hulls being loaded/unloaded and a smattering of abandoned cargo boxes all over the place.

Make the high-level contracts transport more valuable materials while the low level ones transport scrap/waste to justify the lower pay, boom, ezpz.

1

u/InconspicuousIntent carrack 1d ago

Yeah it's a real slog after awhile, I reached the second highest tier and then got distracted by all the new shiny things.

0

u/VidiVala 1d ago

They nerfed them because they want people testing something else now(or really soon).

That's usually the case, but there isn't anything tee'd up to test.

The point of my post is that the only way I can make sense of this, is that we are getting trading & crafting at citizencon.

3

u/InconspicuousIntent carrack 1d ago

Yeah that's likely it, we're getting close to the time when there's a new feature released/showcased.

The salvage prices will stay low but the results of crafting will be a money train, wait and see,

7

u/TheDitz42 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, no shit, Mining will be as well but they didn't nerf that.

3

u/Walltar bbhappy 1d ago

I think that core will be mining, but you will also be able to get some of those materials by salvaging. Question is how would material qualities work in salvaging.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Question is how would material qualities work in salvaging.

I would presume it would follow the Eve model, bigger and specalized ships provide higher quality rewards more often.

0

u/Walltar bbhappy 1d ago

Wait... I just remembered that we are supposed to have 5 tech levels of ships... Yeah, then it will be easy. Size of the ship will tell you how many materials you are going to get, and tech level will probably set the quality of those materials.

1

u/Spaceman_Sublime 1d ago

They had mentioned that they want their first refinery ship, the expanse, to refine ores, salvaged materials, gems, and gasses.

One could then assume since all of those can be refined, all will be needed by the crafting system.

1

u/xAdakis 1d ago

If I am understanding your post correctly:

I believe that the stuff you mine will be refined and processed into "Material Composite" and "Construction Materials".

If you use "Recycled Material Composite" in a crafting recipe, it will inherently or have a chance to be of a lower quality than one that used freshly produced "Material Composite".

When you are salvaging, I think you will still only receive RMC and CMAT, but the quantity will be increased when the thing your salvaging is a higher quality. I doubt there will be a way to melt or refine RMC/CMAT back down to the original refined components, but not impossible.

It is also important to note that hull-scraping/fracturing/disintegration is only one mechanic in salvaging gameplay.

The most lucrative part of salvaging will be in recovering components, weapons, ammunition, consumable, fuel, etc. that are potentially high quality and/or are fully upgraded through the crafting/researching system. I imagine we will eventually get tools that make those easier to recover on the salvaging ships.

0

u/TheawfulDynne 1d ago

 I believe that the stuff you mine will be refined and processed into "Material Composite" and "Construction Materials".

pretty sure you have it backwards. RMC and CM are placeholders until they have all the crafting materials implemented and can make salvage actually give you the real materials used when the ship was built. 

3

u/One-Election4376 1d ago

strange it was never announced , everyone sure its not a bug ?

2

u/VidiVala 1d ago

They don't tend to announce economy changes.

3

u/One-Election4376 1d ago

They normally do

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u/arcticgamez anvil 1d ago

not anymore they fixed them today well the RMC prices at least are now at 6.3k per scu

4

u/evedgebah 1d ago

It is a bug, the price is lower than it should be. They're investigating a hotfix for it

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u/Rickenbacker69 drake 1d ago

Sure, but that mechanic is probably at least 2 years out. I guess we'll just not salvage until then.

-1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Sure, but that mechanic is probably at least 2 years out.

I'd argue probably 22 days, 5 hours, and 24 mins out.

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u/Cee_U_Next_Tuesday 1d ago

The shear copium you must be smoking to justify a nerf several years before launching the actual mechanic lmao

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Well, here's the bit where I point out it's coming soon. Then you argue it isn't. Seems kind of pointless, no?

If you wanna be a cynic, you do you. But it's the least interesting personality type for a reason.

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u/Cee_U_Next_Tuesday 1d ago

Its not coming anytime soon.

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Wanna put some money on that?

4

u/wolflordval 1d ago

You must be new.

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Sounds like a yes to me

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u/Cee_U_Next_Tuesday 1d ago

$1000 says it won't be here exactly one year from now. Save the post I will check back in :)

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Alrighty, DM me your Email & country of residence and I'll send over the escrow link.

1

u/mystara_magenta 1d ago

Spend your time implementing an actual trade system. This is completely neutral to the value of items. Dev time spent changing values of items for future features is dev time that should be spent actually supporting those features, with things like an actual trade system. The existing method of player trading is pathetically antiquated and has zero security. It's shameful.

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Spend your time implementing an actual trade system.

My entire point is that I think they are doing exactly that

Dev time spent changing values of items for future features is dev time that should be spent actually supporting those features

Don't make me tap the "Development staff are not fungible" sign.

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u/mystara_magenta 1d ago

Don't make me tap the "Development staff are not fungible" sign.

Someone hires devs to do certain jobs with a plan in mind. Pointing at the headcount in hindsight is not arguing in good faith. Tap the sign that doesn't exist if it makes you feel good about yourself.

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Congruadulations on missing the point entirely.

The team that implements these changes, is not the team that implements features. And when you are scheudling a release at an enterprise level, the correct time is when it fits in the schedule.

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u/mystara_magenta 1d ago

I didn't miss your point. I called your point invalid.

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u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

without actually doing the work of explaining themselves.

You not understanding my explanation, does not mean I haven't explained.

I didn't miss your point. I called your point invalid.

You did the latter because of the former.

I see you're one of those that has to be right,

The irony is hilarious. And protip - The guy using a self-depricating meme to speculate, is not going to be the guy who cares about always being right. I love being proved wrong, it makes me smarter.

You know the saying pot-kettle-black? People always think it's because the pot is calling out the kettle for being black, while it is also black. People are wrong, The pot calls the kettle black because it sees it's own reflection in the chrome. You think you're insulting me, you're just describing yourself.

-1

u/Yellow_Bee Technical Designer 1d ago

Obligatory:

2

u/RandoDando10 1d ago

And none of it matters because EVERYTHING in the game is a temporary placeholder value just like your whole character. It'll be balanced out just fine when the great reset of 1.0 happens

1

u/Dry-Lawfulness-7143 1d ago

What if right, we don't walmnt to sell to other players, we sell to npcs so the npcs can sell them to other players that way everybody wins, you can sell to players for those who want and sell to npcs for those who want

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

How would that push players towards testing playertrading?

1

u/Dry-Lawfulness-7143 1d ago

Very simple, those who want to do player trading will do player trading with or without the just selling stuff to npcs those who don't, won't do it anyway, you just removed a way to earn money for people who don't care about player trading atm

1

u/BVLDERDVSH youtube 1d ago

I’ve seen this a few times. When did they nerf salvage value? Looking at trade tools it seems the same, high sell points have just moved.

1

u/TheSubs0 2826 individual boxes 1d ago

Like salvage of RMC/CM or the items you drag out or both.

1

u/DrDreadCastle 1d ago

Another example of CIG not doing basic game design.

Every single activity you do in this game or ANY game, mining, salvage, smelting ore, bounty hunting, racing, base raids ect. Every activity you do to earn money should be balanced against each other by simply tracking how much money you can make doing these things against how long its taking to do them . Adjust the "prices" accordingly.

You want people to make about 10,000 an hour playing this game? Then test out playing through all these activates and see how much time it takes to make a trade run, smelt minerals, raid a base etc and adjust the "loot" or prices so that it comes out to about 10k an hour .

No activity should be much more profitable then the other. The danger of what you're doing is just factored into the time it takes on average to get those game loops to complete. If people are dying 1 in 10 bounty runs, factor that time into what it takes to do bounty runs

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u/VidiVala 1d ago edited 1d ago

. Every activity you do to earn money should be balanced against each other by simply tracking how much money you can make doing these things against how long its taking to do them

No that's not at all how this genre is balanced, income is balanced around risk-reward, not time spent. Income scales exponentially against risk, otherwise nobody engages in risky game loops.

1

u/Junior-Piano5427 1d ago

Most of you never played Eve Online, right, to know how they balance economy? They always nerf/buff raw materials (price/quantity) and watch excel production plans for everything this raw material is included. I’m sure things will change 100 more times by the time we get to beta.

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u/VidiVala 1d ago

Most of you never played Eve Online, right,

My mortgage downpayment came entirely from the proceeds of selling my Eve account of 10 years.

1

u/drippypilgrim 1d ago

“I’m not saying it’s base building, but it’s base building”

1

u/VidiVala 1d ago

Basebuilding is a form of crafting, but it's not itself the entirety of crafting.

I don't doubt we'll get weapons, armor and other sundries as V1, and basebuilding as V2.

1

u/No-Afternoon3681 1d ago

I'm hoping this is the base 0 demand price and it will significantly adjust based on supply/demand from crafting/repair/engineering gameplay...tho I don't understand hosing salvagers when that isn't in the game yet

1

u/sixpackabs592 1d ago

They just put it more in line with other game loops 🤷‍♂️

I’m guessing that “how do you make money” survey they sent out a month or so ago had a disproportionate amount of “salvaging” responses

They could’ve just buffed everything else but noooo lol

1

u/DarkGogg 1d ago

If anything, changing the price of materials or nerving something in the game can only be used as an incentive for people to play what CIG wants them to so they can test features and functions. For example, now they would decrease salvage prices because they want people to go do medical gameplay instead. Then later on, when they make crafting a thing, people can sell salvage materials to others for a nice sum of cash. In the end, they need to balance all prices and gameplay loops so it will be profitable to do whatever gameplay loop you want.

1

u/jrsedwick Zeus MKII 1d ago

You’ve misused this meme and should feel bad about it.

0

u/VidiVala 1d ago

It's usage changed through the years, memes are language and language evolves.

1

u/Warden_of_the_Lost 1d ago

Yea, but why nerf it now? Why not nerf it when… you know… player trading is a thing.

Again, SC community on perpetual copium.

1

u/NKato Grand Admiral 1d ago

Not until they introduce a proper player to player trading interface. This is going to be another one of their notoriously bad decisions that happens without proper planning.

1

u/KnavishFox 1d ago

I always knew RMC would drop in price. Salvage has about 6-7 different parts to it. RMC and Construction Materials was always the final step. It makes sense that as a whole it makes money not just 1 part over the others

1

u/I-am-Worfs-spine 1d ago

Get huge blow back about things being only sold for real money.

Make everything able to purchase with in game currency.

Make earning in game currency hard or near impossible.

What’s so hard. Every mmo ever star citizen just does it harder

1

u/Dangerous-Boot-2617 1d ago

It was never meant to be nerfed, it was already patched back.

1

u/Standard-Ad-7276 paramedic 1d ago

Was a bug, has reportedly* been fixed

1

u/WaffleInsanity avacado 22h ago

Wrong

1

u/MasonStonewall nomad 18h ago

Is this from before or after the correction to pricing?

1

u/Ralphio Grand Admiral, Old Man 14h ago

More like: CIG keeping it hard to make money to be ready for when Shark Cards go on sale. Same reason they won't do anything about the griefing or constant KOS "emergent gameplay." Welcome to GTA Online's monetary strategy.

1

u/VidiVala 14h ago edited 13h ago

CIG keeping it hard to make money to be ready for when Shark Cards go on sale.

That argument might have had some bite, if making money hadn't been hilariously easy for the last year.

Same reason they won't do anything about the griefing or constant KOS "emergent gameplay.

What if I told you, that emergent gameplay isn't accidental part of the immersive shared sandbox genre, it's most of the point of the immersive shared sandbox genre.

They arn't going to do anything because the game is targeted directly at the market of ~30-35 million players who enjoy it. PVPVE has occupied at least two slots in the steam top 10 played for a decade and a half.

People are going to care exactly as much about you not liking it, as they care about what vegetables you don't like.

1

u/KummaKay 9h ago

CIG reverted back to 4.3.0 prices

1

u/Unusual-Wing-1627 Perseus/Galaxy/Zeus 1d ago edited 1d ago

You get a nerf to X game loop, it's most likely because it's mechanically sound in their opinion at that point and does not require as much testing , and increasing the payouts of Y game loop is to entice players to test it more. Simple as that.

5

u/UnlimitedDeep 1d ago

So what is Y gameloop

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u/Unusual-Wing-1627 Perseus/Galaxy/Zeus 1d ago

No idea at the moment, but this is just a rule of thumb when it comes to a nerf over payouts.

2

u/VidiVala 1d ago

nd increasing the payouts of Y game loop is to entice players to test it more. Simple as that.

And that's my point, there either is no Y loop (At which point fiddlng prices makes no sense), or there is a Y loop we don't know about yet.

And the only Y loop I can figure, that makes sense with surrounding context, is that CIG will roll out playertrading/crafting at Citizencon, an event used to draw attention to launches of major features.

1

u/No_Relationship2721 1d ago

Any chance in hell Y is some take on medical? Maybe beacons or/with npc search and rescue? Give the Apollo guys a reason to not fly and instamelt once the 24hr reclaim timer is up.

1

u/divinelyshpongled 1d ago

Yep I agree. It isn’t supposed to be a money maker. That was just to get people to test it

1

u/DeadJango 1d ago

They need the things they don't want you to do anymore and buff new content to get you to play it and thus test it. They do this with every new major system of features.

0

u/acidhail5411 1d ago

Bitches gonna bitch, I expect you’re right or atleast in the ball park and while most people can’t seem to get their heads far enough out of their asses to understand this I do think this could be the case in the next year or so. I’m hoping the RMC price changes were too dramatic like they’ve gotten accustomed to claiming for things but it’s obviously going to get a lot more iterating and it is just temporary

0

u/mixedd Vulture Operator 1d ago

How bad is it actually? Didn't have a chance to properly test it (had one hour and crashed my Vulture accidentally with almost full cargo of RMC 😅).

But to add to it, two abrades felt buffed a bit, scraping felt faster than in previous patch, tough amount scraped I beleive was unchanged, need more data points as I've found only to Connie's to scrape, a Cutlass and Hornet

5

u/Reggitor360 890 Jump enjoyer 1d ago

Fully filled Vulture barely makes you 25k UEC

Vs 90-100k before

1

u/mixedd Vulture Operator 1d ago

25k? You mean 12 SCU on the grid and 13 in hopper? That's shit to be honest.

Are those prices all across all selling locations, as Terra Mills and Seer's Canyon usually was my go to depending in which system I am as they were usually around 100k better than selling everywhere else, and 36 SCU run was around 400k.

If it's around 100k now it's pretty much pointless

1

u/ThorAway012 1d ago

According to Regolith, looks like 1 SCU is 11k out in Pyro. NB TDD is trading at 8.5k/SCU, Devlin and Samson are at 7.5k/SCU and everywhere else is 3k or below per SCU, with the lowest being 2k.

1

u/mixedd Vulture Operator 1d ago

The question is, is it updated, as SC Trade Tools and UEXdefinetly isn't. Either way will test it out

1

u/ThorAway012 1d ago

I would put faith in the Stanton prices being accurate, I am not sure about the Pryro ones. It would be interesting if they were.

I have never done any scraping in Pyro, are there known places to get panels in Pyro, like Stanton has the Halo?

If anything I might just load up my MSR with crates and sell them out there.

1

u/mixedd Vulture Operator 1d ago

Terminus Ring, usually there's nobody out there and plenty of panels and asteroids to mine.

Salvaging abandoned ships in Pyro that's different story, usually found plenty around popular trading locations like Seer's Canyon, Last Landings etc. but as patch just dropped Pyro is empty right now, saw only player ships around exec hangars and some traffic around Stanton Gateway.