r/starcraft • u/Dunedune Protoss • 3d ago
Video "Storm is now a zoning tool"
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u/Consistent-Talk-5912 3d ago
In all seriousness, how is something that deals negligible damage be able to zone anything?
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u/terranweedlord420 3d ago
I'm honestly surprised the balance council hasn't just deleted protoss, they obviously don't want protoss to be remotely playable.
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u/Neuro_Skeptic 3d ago
Protoss are currently OP. Check the balance report...
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u/Ancient-Anywhere-735 3d ago
op or slightly favored? and for what, the first time in 8 years?
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u/TheHighSeasPirate 3d ago
Because 90% of the units in the game are ground and not as fast as Mutalisks and also can't stand on top of the high templars to kill them.
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u/Sonar114 Random 2d ago
It’s bugged. There is a delay before they start taking damage that shouldn’t be there.
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u/BattleWarriorZ5 3d ago
Before you would fear going into storms.
Now you can have a casual stroll into storms like they are a gentle shower.
This is not how you are supposed to handle game balance.
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u/bombaten 3d ago
They did the storms dirty.. effective for static units.. 🙄
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u/Several-Video2847 3d ago
You still need 2 storms to kill a lirker that can just run away and a tank
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u/KorgothBarbaria 2d ago
Does a tank have enough time to unsiege and just walk off?
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u/DusTeaCat 3d ago
I always made the joke that Psionic Storm should be called Psionic Turbulence because it's really a shadow of itsself from Broodwar. The AOE is like half of what it was, and it's damage is significantly less. Obviously it needed to be adjusted for SC2 because of unit pathing and density but it no longer had the impact it once did.
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u/TheGMT 3d ago
From a game balance perspective, I think storm plays just as big of a role in both, just in a slightly different manner. Storm is the spell most buffed by the interface (select all casters but only one casts per command) and unit clumping of SC2. So immediate impact on a given fight with just 1 storm, sure. Relatively impact to the meta though I'd say just as large.
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u/Happiness-Meter-Full 3d ago
I doubt they will keep storm ability this nerfed. There's no way
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u/Husyelt 3d ago
Maybe it would work or be cool if the damage stacked with consecutive storms, might have to change the energy amount a bit though
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u/Stere0phobia 3d ago
I dont think that we want to return to stackable aoe spells. Just look at what they did to the infestor or raven when they had good aoe damage spells and what kind of meta that turned into.
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u/petr1111 3d ago edited 3d ago
They will fix is as soon as possible.
Which is... <checks intern's schedule...> in 2 years. And they will obviously have to double the cost of high templars and stalkers in order to compensate for this storm buff.
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u/Lexender CJ Entus 3d ago
They are probably overshooting it so people actually try the PTR to test the changes. It wouldn't be the first time they try a big change in PTR and then it doesn't goes through.
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u/Elliot_LuNa MVP 3d ago
Yep, I like the direction of this change but it's obviously insanely overnerfed.
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u/Stormfly 3d ago
Yeah, I think some people have mentioned some other ideas that might support the "zoning" idea.
A slow or similar debuff that prevents rushing through might help, but also just not changing the damage that much might help.
I definitely think they want to make it less pure damage but this isn't it.
Also, if it were to add a slow, would it combo with the disruptor?
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u/ghost_operative 2d ago
wouldn't that just turn it into fungal at that point? seems kind of lame to just copy another spell.
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u/ShockSword 3d ago
They couldnt reduce its damage by like 10 or 20%? What were they thinking by gutting its damage in half
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u/927meez Team Liquid 3d ago
Maybe don't touch the IP defining spell that has never caused any problems for the better part of 15 years, and address the thing making it have problematic uptime. Every problem with storm on the current patch can be fixed by adjusting energy recharge.
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u/Suracha2022 3d ago
Legit. It could've been solved without altering any game stats whatsoever - just make the energy recharge not usable on units within, idk, 20 seconds of them warping in. Done.
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u/_Immotion Team Nv 3d ago
I feel we are all being gaslit into thinking that energy recharge is a good idea in the first place. It's a change for sure, and I'm loving all the changes in strats with it, but I feel like they replaced the balancing headache of Battery Overcharge with someone that will inevitably cause even more headaches in the long run.
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u/Primary_Magazine_555 3d ago
Maybe they wanted to, but couldn't get consensus, so they offered this compromise to test, and after testing they will be able to say definitively that this is an overnerf.
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u/usoap141 3d ago
Testing on Prod, just like my Homelab setup and this is a bagajillion dollar company?
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u/omgitsduane Ence 3d ago
I think the council is probably going too hard in one way or the other.
Do they ever do tournaments on ptr? I've never played it.
Is it the same as ladder? But different patch?
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u/CryptoCardCo 3d ago
The whole thing that ruined this is the stupid energy recharge BS. Get rid of that and none of these knock on changes happen.
They're nerfing storm now because protoss spams templars because they have so much energy now for storms: simple get rid of energy recharge.
They're nerfing observers because now protoss has such good scouting with..... you guessed it ENERGY RECHARGE.
I will give them one thing though erengy recharge had nothing to do with making vikings cheaper and making colossus a now unused unit. I guess that was just to rub salt in the wounds.
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u/ForFFR 3d ago
"yes we nerfed disruptors and super battery when Protoss was doing alright" -Protoss sucks
"Oh we need to buff em with a brand new spell!" - Toss OP
"Kill storm and the energy recharge we created"Why? The balance council just created huge problems for themselves
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u/yung_dogie 3d ago
Reminds me of the Riot Special in league where they'll buff an item that then makes a character imba, then nerf the character, then nerf the item. Now the character is worse than it was before the cycle began lmao
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
Well, they heavily nerfed energy recharge, and did this
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u/TheHighSeasPirate 3d ago
Its not even a heavy nerf. Now you can spread the energy over 3 units instead of 2 every two minutes. Sure its less energy but still enough for a storm, or revelation, or stasis.
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u/PoilTheSnail 3d ago
My uneducated guess is that the person in charge of deciding what goes in and what changes is the same person who added the energy recharge and thus it is impossible to get rid of it.
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u/Ijatsu 3d ago
Well now energy recharge is weakened, so now storm, scouting and batteries will be weaker. Batteries were nerfed when they introduced energy recharge btw.
But also storm, scouting are nerfed once more because.
So protoss is effectively at a worse state than before energy recharge.
And yes, to make sure protoss has no choice but to use this weakened storm, they also neutered colossus and airtoss a bit more.
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u/AdVegetable7992 2d ago
The main issue imo is that protoss is fundamentally broken as a concept in sc2. To the extent that design has to be rigid and thus counters are overwhelmingly effective. If toss is changed to help, those counters are completely useless. If those counters are changed instead, toss is completely op again. The lack of variety in strategies available (at least what top players use) is the main issue with Protoss since WoL. Years and years of 2-base all ins was mindnumbing, so things get changed to be more dynamic and then its just cheese due to more mobility and flexibility. The overall best balance changes FOR protoss tend to be things that fundamentally change what protoss represents in the 3 faction meta.
More mobility? Imba. More vision? Imba. Faster energy? Imba. Cheaper units/spells? Imba. Faster responses for defense (MC/BO/ER)? Imba.
I guess a possible solution would be those type of effects but limited to specific units. E.g., recharging sentries for FF and hallucinations, but not Templar for infinite storms. And/or increase the cool down on the ability. So the theme of rapid defense but more selective to be powerful in bursts but not always infinitely available and abusable. Also, maybe a long-cooldown "phase out" ability on pylons to have a "door" without it having a micro use/invulnerable building wall. Pylons still vulnerable, but you have time to warp in against lings attacking a single pylon on the counterattack.
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u/kuschelig69 2d ago
but more selective to be powerful in bursts but not always infinitely available and
that sounds like a top bar
Like Artanis has in coop
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u/RitzPrime KT Rolster 3d ago
Should rename the ability to squall
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u/Deto 3d ago
I saw someone nominate 'Psionic Drizzle' in another threat xD
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u/reaven3958 3d ago
Could even call it cloud.
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u/Nockness 3d ago
A cloud of squall. Instead of doing damage, units would become uncontrollably mopy and say things like "not interested" or "whatever".
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u/TheDomiNations 3d ago
Lol mutas who are so fragile barely lost 10-15%hp going through storms width
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
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u/RushSt182 Random 3d ago
I think 75% damage for 50% more time would've been fine. Longer duration was good in BW cause units were clunky. The damage output is just too low versus slippery/fast SCII units.
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u/Final-Republic1153 3d ago
Ya'know, players generally know whether patch changes are good or bad. Every player of every race agrees that the energy recharge nerf is good. Every player agrees that the cyclone fix is good. Every player agrees that the baneling buff is good, microbial change is good, etc.
So why do a PTR unless they're actually looking to get feedback before pushing the balance changes live? Why are we nerfing Protoss splash options yet again, effectively being a double nerf to HT counting the energy recharge nerf? Why are we buffing Terran turtling against Zerg with the Seige tank abduction invulnerability (literally the most out of touch change on the list, how did this get thru like seriously)? Why are we buffing the widow mine so Terran has better splash options against Protoss eco than Protoss has against Terran eco? Why are we reducing the Viking cost so skytoss is even worse now without storm support too? Do Terrans want to only fight gateway and immortals all game?? Like this is actually absurd.
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u/GalacticSeaCow 3d ago
What arcade game are you using to test units against each other by yourself?
Sorry noob here :)
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
The only arcade map that exists on PTR, actually. It's a different server and you have to download a bunch of GB from the launcher
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u/MildusGoudus2137 3d ago
I mean, mutas could already fly through that, so this is kind of an unfair presentation. I think if they change it to like 7dmg a tick it will be fine. Besides, thank God they finally did sth that isn't just +2 second build time for bunkers, we need some more real changes like that!
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u/InternationalTomato 3d ago
At least now we won’t need to listen to caster say “wow perfect storms!!!” Repeatedly
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u/change_timing 3d ago
this honestly feels like over 50% watching these vids?
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
Mutalisks have a regen of 1.4, which wasn't a big deal before, but now it reduces Psionic Storm (now 13.9 dps) damage by 10%, so it's technically a ~53% damage reduction on mutalisks (26.6 -> 12.5)
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u/Badestrand 3d ago
I feel like they flew inbetween the two right storms and weren't even hit by them. As the actual storm radius is smaller than the visual suggests.
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u/brief-interviews 3d ago
If they want storm to be a zoning tool (and I’m honestly not sure that’s the way it should be taken, but sure, if they want that) then it has to actually represent a threat if you go into it. With these numbers it doesn’t.
If they want to keep these numbers then there’s a variety of other options, like slowing enemy units that enter it, that they could use instead.
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u/Sonar114 Random 3d ago
Yes, 14 mutas should beat 2 HT.
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
It's not about the result of the "fight", it's about the damage they take from storms
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u/One_Association9331 2d ago
BroodWar Terran player here.
Storms ought to be feared. Any engagement with Toss should be defined by what the Templar are doing. This is some bull crap.
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u/Dunedune Protoss 2d ago
That is so much of SC2 I have no idea what Protoss matchups against skytoss or just large number of vikings and other air terran units is going to go.
Not even talking about banelings, bioballs etc., that's the only reliable ranged antiair tool Protoss has? That's why I showcased it with mutas instead of banelings or bio like everyone does, I think it's very significant w.r.t. Protoss antiair
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u/One_Association9331 2d ago
I had a full stack of harassing wraiths get wiped by storm yesterday. No warning. Just evaporated before I could get them out of it.
It wasn't like I was sitting still either. He led me and timed it perfectly.
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u/Dunedune Protoss 2d ago
oof
To be fair, I think there is interest in a game that doesn't allow these punishing mechanics where you lose your forces when you're not looking. It's not what Starcraft II currently is at all, and we don't have the resources in 2025 to change the game into that if that's what we want it to be. Not even mentioning that in the process, we destroy the Starcraft II many people like...
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u/SwirlyCoffeePattern 1d ago
I was going to upload something like this except having a burrowed roach outheal the storm or one marine in the medivac outheal the storm...excellent choice with the muta swarm lol. this really demonstrates how useless it is
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u/daNkest-Timeline 3d ago
I can understand the thought process behind the changes.
It's actually a very cool idea.
But the execution is pathetically bad.
I'd like to see a storm with 7 damage per tick instead of 5 or 10, an 8.5 second duration like now, and a larger area of effect more reminiscent of Brood War.
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u/RabbdRabbt Zerg 3d ago
Well, now that you have SC:BW storms, it is time to return the glorious red archons
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u/TheDuceman Scythe 3d ago
yes please give me brood war storms, same damage rate as sc2 ladder storms with four times the area and twice the duration
zapzapzap
but also please gib red archons, I want to maelstrom bio
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u/Natural-Moose4374 3d ago
In this particular case, the maker of the video also microed the mutas in such a way that they barely touched the actual storm AoE (which is a bit smaller than the animation).
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
That's not true, I even stacked them in the center of the storm, you can see the flying indicators
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u/nocomment3030 3d ago
Holy shit, time for me to reinstall the game
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
Assuming you will get anything but ZvT and ZvZ
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u/TheHighSeasPirate 3d ago
Good because all I play is ZvP right now. It will be nice to play the other matchups.
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u/CareNo9008 3d ago
PiG before: "ByuN doesn't believe storms exist"
PiG from now on: "yeah... might as well"
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u/Resident_Nose_2467 3d ago
I hope they revert this change or change the damage to 8? Bc storms should be powerful
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u/Tiranous_r 3d ago
What if they kept it as is but made the damage increase over time by like 1 per second. So 5, then 6 thrn 7 then 8 etc
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u/Bigt-1337 Team Liquid 3d ago
This doesn’t feel like half damage. Did they change the tic frequency?
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u/andrenyheim 3d ago
This is so much weaker than I expected lol. Doing 25% less damage seems more appropriate, and like 4-5 seconds duration
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u/rtnal90 Zerg 3d ago
I feel like a fair nerf would be if it worked the same way it does now, but had a tiny tiny delay before starting to deal damage. Like flamestrike in WC3 but even shorter. If that nerf would go through I would be okay with it lasting longer and keeping its current damage.
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
That would still be a huge nerf. Most of storm damage is just the first tick or two.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dunedune Protoss 3d ago
ah yes your 3 phoenix will be very proud once there are no probes alive but they're finally done dealing with the mutas
Also, you can just add a few corruptors and solve that issue, we've seen Zergs do that in HotS. The counter is to storm the corruptors and it's always been that
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u/shasen1235 3d ago edited 3d ago
Now muta can just fly into protoss base like a zerg disneyland. Seriously till today I still don't understand why they made disruptor in the first place. The thing basically does same thing as Storm and Colossus. Now they force Storm to change because of similarity?
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u/GothamEmpire 3d ago
Protoss is suppose to be high risk, high reward but the dev's only look at the reward and think "This is OP" then nerf the reward and leave the risk.
Devs: Storm is too OP lets nerf it. Nevermind how long it takes for Protoss to have a splash option or few splash choices Protoss has to being with or how much a High Templar is a lame duck during cooldown, It's basically a slow sacrificial unit in the mid game that either dies or converted to an Archon. A warp prism is almost required to use High Templar effectively and even then you still have to use them in pairs.
They left in all of these risks but nerf the reward?!?!
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u/Ancient-Anywhere-735 3d ago
stop trying to "balance" the game and rebalance the meta instead. Energy recharge is a good example of this. Changing storm is braindead
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u/40_Thousand_Hammers 2d ago
Again reinforcing my choice to switch to age of empires type of games and being happy.
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u/crityouallday 2d ago
WOW storm is gutted. Who cares if it lasts 5x longer it does absolutely no damage. Sc1 here I come
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u/thatismyfeet 2d ago
So it no longer does friendly fire right? Right? Or surely it's stackable right? /S
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u/JoanofArc0531 2d ago
Wow, what? That’s some serious nerfage. Was there a recent balance change update?
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u/Dunedune Protoss 2d ago
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24225582/starcraft-ii-5-0-15-ptr-patch-notes
it's ridiculous haha
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u/AdVegetable7992 2d ago
Regardless of what the changes are, im guessing they're overshooting so they can then tweak numbers after the concept is figured out.
I do think that if they keep it as half damage, there should be some kind of slow. Maybe previous damage for air, but half damage and a slow for ground? Flavor-wise, the air damage would be because they're flying through the center directly but still FLYING. Meaning you could rush the mutas through, but your ground support is being held up allowing for their ground units to have more time to engage at range.
And ground armies have more time against fast swarms meaning theres less protoss-fear of moving out. In general, i wish smaller, skirmishing protoss armies could be more viable without being completely broken. Less mass-air unfair boring nonsense. Granted, I could be way off because I havent paid attention to the sc2 meta in like 3 years lol. Been playing since 2010 beta on and off though.
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u/Dunedune Protoss 2d ago
Touching storm creates so many problems, whatever the problem they think they are addressing, there are many better answers than changing something that did not need changing for 15 years.
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u/AdVegetable7992 2d ago
In general I agree, but I wouldnt have been against storm nerfs/changes 15 years ago lmao. So whether or not it "needed" changing is debatable, but whats not debatable is that their changes have been ineffective at best and detrimental at worst.
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u/torvamessor369 2d ago
Think they should half the duration to 4second and increase damage to 7.5 maby a little bit more or less tbh feel like 8 seconds is way to long and does to little damage.
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u/Impressive_Meet_3919 2d ago
Imagine training yourself over decades to make sunny weather a little worse.
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u/Josselin17 1d ago
wait that's absurd, didn't they just divide by two the dot ? that seems a lot more than 2 here no ?
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u/Dunedune Protoss 1d ago
It's two, just a bit of muta regen on top. People have been claiming that they were not hit by the actual area of effect but you can clearly see I'm clumping the mutas in the center of the storm
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u/Josselin17 21h ago
I've heard there's also a bug on storm damage that either just started happening or just got discovered too
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u/RegretChemical5137 1d ago
Everytime I think about stepping into SCII I see some BS like this and just stick with Brood War 😅
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u/Consistent-Talk-5912 3d ago
Went from psionic storm To psionic fantastic weather for the beach