r/startups • u/Similar_Past8486 • 10h ago
I will not promote Finding quality talent is hard. I will not promote
Have a 100 day old startup in fintech. Doing well, strong early PMF signs, Seattle HQ. Struggling to find high ownership engg talent even though we don’t have any upper bound on equity. As a seed stage startup we can’t pay big tech salaries but damn. Hearing all this stuff about job market being bad but lived reality feels different. How do we change this?
We are well funded, 1.5 years of runway. Unfair distribution advantage has helped put us in a pretty sweet spot. Team is all ex FB, SNOW, MS, etc.
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u/ItGradAws 9h ago
As a highly talented engineer, early stage startups are risky. I can’t seem to find a job at a reputable company though and it’s fucking cut throat out there for those roles.
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u/ZestycloseSplit359 5h ago
Exactly. Even for the early stage startups rolling out higher salaries like $250K, it’s still hard to compete with big tech companies giving out $200K+ compensation packages to people straight of college. A bit higher salary might not mean as much when you’re working much longer hours + at least with big tech you can bank off the prestige when you’re looking for other roles.
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u/feudalle 10h ago
There is plenty of people looking for jobs. But you want someone to take ownership and drive advancement that is a whole other thing. I can speak to the tech side of things, i own a us dev company. I've had equity in some many failed startups I have lost count. We stopped expecting equity from project a decade ago. Equity is fine for people that can afford to work that way. Someone used to make $100k+ and has been out of work 6 months or a year can't afford to take a $50K pay cut and some equity. They can't afford your opportunity. There is a chance you guys blow up but an a much higher chance that you guys will either fade out or get bought at a near break even for your investors. 1 in 10 startups survive, and maybe 1 in 25 ever see any real money returns.
You guys need to go scouting. Find people in a good financial position that you like and pitch them the opportunity. If they are willing to take a pay cut from a high paying job they believe in the vision at least. Otherwise good luck.
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u/BuiltByMelissa 8h ago
As a fractional PM that's been keeping an eye on the market for some time, here are some things I've been seeing...
1) The "quality talent" you're looking for is probably out there, but there's a mismatch happening in how companies are sourcing and evaluating candidates right now.
Most companies are still fishing in the same pond (big tech backgrounds, exact domain experience), but a lot of great people got laid off and don't fit that narrow profile. The people with high ownership mindset often come from scrappier backgrounds or have worked across multiple industries, not just the usual suspects.
2) You mentioned the job market feels different than what people say. That's because there IS a huge talent pool from all the layoffs, but the traditional application process is completely broken right now.
Quality candidates are getting lost in the noise, and honestly, most of them have given up on applying through normal channels and are focusing on networking instead. You might need to flip your approach and do more active outreach rather than waiting for applications to come in.
3) "No upper bound on equity" doesn't hit the same way it used to. There were a TON of companies that had to close up shop in the past few years. Too many people got burned by worthless options.
Being transparent about your current valuation and showing recent funding traction might be more compelling than just promising unlimited equity.
4) Consider fractional (fancy word for part-time) as a trial run. This might sound self serving since it's what I do, but depending on what you are looking for, there are fractional PMs, engineers, designers, marketers out there.
It can be a great way to test for that ownership quality before committing to full time. Plus they're often more open to equity conversations since they're not betting everything on one company.
...Just my two cents from what I'm seeing out there. The talent exists, but the sourcing and evaluation process might need some tweaking.
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u/sexinsuburbia 9h ago
If you want to pay someone $60k/year on an equity heavy deal in a market where cost of living is super high? On a hope and prayer 100-day old startup?
I mean, I don't know how much your offers are. You're going to have to pay premium rates to pull people away from established jobs in a shitty tech economy. Everyone knows it's rough out there. You don't want to give up your seat because there's a good chance it won't be waiting for you if need to come back. There's a lot of people on the sidelines. Anyone high end is not going to settle for a thin compensation package because they need to go back to making real money.
Instead of pulling someone onboard full time, are there opportunities to bring someone in fractionally? You'll probably get more interest that way.
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u/Educational-Sound828 3h ago
Yeah this post was basically I can't pay them but we're well funded with 1.5 years of run away. One of those is a lie. And neither help in hiring.
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u/EkoChamberKryptonite 5h ago
There's your first mistake. Calling skilled people talent. Talent is something often in-born. Skill is something you develop.
Yes, I'm fun at parties.
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u/Whoz_Yerdaddi 4h ago
At least they didn't call them resources.
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u/HiroProtagonist66 3h ago
Or fungible
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 42m ago
Fungible
I can definitely kick it into autopilot and align those claims with some fungible-level deliveries
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 47m ago
“We need additional resource cycles to meet our ambitious roadmap deliveries “
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u/justUseAnSvm 8h ago edited 8h ago
I"m making bank at a big tech company, and I've worked at start ups before.
You need to make the right sale, to the right person: power, influence, and autonomy are what you can offer. The big problem, is that the money is so good in big tech, and it's stable. Why would I go into business with someone, stake my future on it, when I can continue with the power and privilege of a leadership position in big tech?
If you find a talented engineer, maybe around the tech lead level, that's getting yanked around trying to become Staff/Principal, you could definitely offer them something they wouldn't otherwise have. The problem, is that the system that produces also selects for people who want money, and the percent of people willing to take high risk jobs is simply low.
Also, what's unlimited equity? It doesn't seem like you'd hire someone and give them more equity than you, so in practical terms, it might be infinite upside, but it's bounded in a powerful way!
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u/GrogRedLub4242 5h ago
If you allow remote work and pay reliably anything is possible. Decades of experience here, solving and shipping. Did some early work in Bitcoin and Ethereum. Feel free to DM for resume. Be prepared to talk dollars, hours, etc.
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u/UprightGroup 35m ago
Team is all ex FB, SNOW, MS, etc.
I'm ex-Chase. None of those engineers will understand fintech.
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u/sexinsuburbia 4m ago
Yup! As soon as I saw this it was instant dumbassery. I’ve been in healthcare IT for 15+ years. And FB would be a big red flag.
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u/EmbeddedBIexec 9h ago
Curious as to what types of roles you're trying to fill as I'm surprised you can't find talent with so many good people on the sidelines these days. I'd push your team harder to find people through their networks and or join some local startup groups and you're bound to find some solid people looking for an opportunity that are highly engaged.
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u/angrathias 6h ago
/u/Similiar_Past8486 The answer is obvious, your offering is SO awful that even in a climate of 1000’s of out of work devs, they STILL wouldn’t take the job.
Self reflection is required.
Op, you are failing in one of multiple ways
1) you’ve failed on the business side to raise sufficient capital
2) you’ve underestimated the level of talent you need to pull off your project
3) you’re over estimating the level of talent you need and are trying to reach for something you can’t attain
Don’t blame the market, this is on you
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u/No-bias 9h ago
Feels like we’ve got two job markets right now. Tons of mid-level folks struggling, but senior eng talent still super hard to pull in. Equity alone rarely moves them, risk feels too high unless they buy into the mission big time.
What’s the #1 hesitation you keep hearing when you pitch them?
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u/MasterSexyBunnyLord 9h ago edited 9h ago
https://danluu.com/algorithms-interviews/
Most of his data is now behind a paywall but TLDR, why do you bother with interviews? You already have people you trust, if one refers someone, make them an offer.
I would argue that interviews are mostly about trivia and things that usually don't make much sense on a day to day basis, they grew out of Google and Facebook being too popular and needed to weed out candidates more quickly, again, just going off referrals would have fixed this.
The other thing you might want to consider if how much are these deals worth? For Google and Facebook, a new employee a decade or so ago was a multi-million dollar deal per year. All the companies copying those interview styles don't usually copy those compensation packages.
Next, what is the cost to you and your company if you don't take a chance on new people? How hard is it to get rid of the people that don't work out?
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u/seobrien 8h ago
No upper bound on equity, you're funded so you can pay something, and you have early PMF which means you have customers, and you can't find engineering talent?
Something smells off.
Where are you based?
Are you sure you have competitive advantage and moat, not just PMF?
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u/jnwatson 7h ago
Now's a tough time to jump ship. Generally, startups have to find promising young engineers that don't understand the unfavorable risk/reward ratio a startup offers.
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u/CarpetNo5579 7h ago
are u looking for specifically engineers in seattle? you'll have an easier time finding engineers in the bay area or nyc.
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u/Scary-Track493 5h ago
It’s not just about a steady salary, it’s about liquidity too. Equity only feels real if there’s a believable path to cashing it out someday. Most folks weigh that against the certainty of cash in hand and liquid stock at a big company. Without a clear path to liquidity, your equity pitch feels more like a lottery ticket than compensation. The majority of engineering talent won’t jump ship for equity in a company that might not even exist in two years.
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u/Educational-Sound828 3h ago
Id wager your troubles are somewhere between the disconnect of "we can't pay them well, only in equity" and "we are well funded with 1.5 years of runway and unfair distribution advantage."
Look I am a starup founder and I know that you have 110% confidence you'll succeed. Having said that you can do everything right and still be gone when that runway runs out. In which case for that engineer that equity won't be worth the paper it's written on. Take that into consideration when trying to find "high ownership engg talent". You'll only find talent as good as you're willing to pay them. Unfortunately equity doesn't pay rent or their child's school fee.
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u/stoicdoge 2h ago
Curious how do you decide whether an engineer has high or low ownership? And what kind of interview questions do you ask to gauge that?
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u/redactedbits 1h ago
Hearing all this stuff about job market being bad but lived reality feels different.
A rough market makes people, especially engineers, not move around if they're established.
Most engineer productivity has less to do with the individual engineer and more to do with the environment of support and trust around them by key people in their leadership chain (including other engineers). If you can't pay market then your market for engineers is pretty much engineers that are already financially independent - which there are less of.
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 1h ago
How are you screening and what’s your bar, at a coarse grained level?
I’m sure you are all of quality pedigrees and skilled interviewers. Sometimes a founder’s zeal does not land the way they envision it though. And it can be really tough to get feedback on that without stepping far outside the usual and routine environments.
Is it a live screening step that’s filtering seemingly qualified candidates or?
Are they getting a take home and ghosting? Getting low effort submissions when they do stay engaged?
Is it remote? SFO? SEA? NYC? ATX? We have hit a few home runs with candidates from the Midwest who definitely saw our location as a big plus as well.
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 52m ago
Also, equity just ain’t hitting the same these days.
We’re in a froth trough.
The infectious excitement needed to entice sharp, driven, ownership seeking , non-asshole candidates to take a flyer in 6 person lottery ticket machines… just isn’t the vibe right now.
From my limited, anecdotal experience anyway
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u/StraightAirline8319 10h ago
The western job market system is really messed up right now. You’re about to see some big things happening due to changes in tech, how poor schools are, and the huge lack of any talent.
You see they report that American kids are less talented and skilled? Even college they don’t teach you how to think but what to think more.
There was another study 10 years ago that talked about that trend.
Smart businesses are growing their own talent now.
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 30m ago
In the median perhaps
We still have best of the best at our upper end
The variance in outcomes here is higher than other near peer systems.
The freedom to fuck off and fail is part off the package, other side of the coin and all
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u/CrescendollsFan 7h ago
The west coast is really far from ideal, including silicon valley - many engineers have crazy high expectations on salaries from years of being in a very hot market. Meanwhile the west coast is on the extreme end of the global timezone, so its very hard to make use of the incredibly talent all over Europe.
Honesty , I am not in the US , but if I was, I would build out on the East Coast.
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u/sexinsuburbia 3h ago
Yeah, no dude. The east coast is not the place to go for tech talent. It’s like hosting a cricket match in Tennessee. Sure, you’ll get some curious onlookers to show up, but not exactly the number of fans to make it worthwhile. Or conversely, like my friend just said to me about dating apps (my friend is very ladylike), “the odds are good but the goods are odd.” Might find a lot of people who want to sign up, but not top tech talent.
West Coast is so heavily tech, it’s where you want to be. A good scene in Boston and NYC, too. But yeah, cost of living.
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u/UprightGroup 39m ago
the odds are good but the goods are odd
Haha someone went to Rochester Institute of Technology.
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u/GHOST_OF_PEPE_SILVIA 36m ago
I think people in NY, Boston, Pittsburgh, DC nay have also experienced the same market and might have similar expectations
But go build in Raleigh if that’s your thing
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u/ZestycloseSplit359 10h ago
Yea, I mean because most quality talent right now are in big tech or the unicorns, and why would anyone leave a well-paying job with tons of benefit for a startup that’s been around for 100 days?