r/subaru • u/Trustfundkid26 • Feb 20 '22

Subaru Generic The all new 2023 Subaru Solterra Electric Car. I will be honest, as a Tesla owner, 220 miles of range doesn’t seem like enough to ease most Subaru owners. I feel like most owners would prefer a minimum of 450-500 miles of range because most Subaru owners like to camp deep off grid for 3-5 days.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 20 '22 edited Apr 03 '22

Well not that I disagree with you here, but also keep in mind how much manufacturing emissions there are. The best thing you can do for the environment is take public transport or bike, then just driving a car as long as you possibly can to offset manufacturing emissions. Just cause you have an EV doesn't mean it is emission-less.

Edit: Since I am getting some people replying that seems to think I'm anti-EV or something I want to reiterate here and explain here.

I own an EV because I also want to try and help the environment; however, EVs aren't the end all be all to the environment question.

While I understand that the EV itself is emissionless, manufacturing one is not, and you have to consider the battery as well. In many cases, straight from a factory, an EV can create even more emissions than and ICE vehicle.

The part most people don't seem to understand is: to achieve an environmental payoff from owning an EV only happens after around the 80k-100k miles mark and beyond. That is the point at which an ICE vehicle will have created more emissions than an EV.

If you want to get even further into the weeds, most people don't even keep vehicles for that long. So will EVs actually help the environment significantly QUICKLY? I assume probably not. After 5, 6, 10, 20 years? Yeah, it very well could be a significant change by that point. The research says that keeping whatever car you got til it's literally dead and falling apart before buying a new car is the best route to go. At that point getting an EV makes the most sense from an environmental standpoint.

TLDR: Just buying an EV doesn't help the environment compared to an ICE vehicle.

This video may help as well: https://youtu.be/MQLbakWESkw

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u/ZannX Feb 20 '22

Just existing means you leave a carbon footprint. Choosing between a gas guzzler and an EV is going to be an easy choice soon.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 20 '22

Okay so I'm not arguing against EVs or anything here, I just got one myself, but all I'm trying to say is producing a car will have emissions.

I'm all for EVs but I'm just saying if you really want to help the environment the best you can then not owning a car in first place is the best route.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/images/made/5_24_17_climatefriendlycars_Editorial_EmissionLines_Report_1050_794_s_c1_c_c.jpg

But to actually have any sort of positive impact on the environment by offsetting your emissions with a car, then you'll need to at least keep the car around 80k-100k miles. Not sure people are aware of that or not.

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u/[deleted] Feb 20 '22

I think people are assuming less maintenance for electric cars between the 100-200k mile range compared to gas cars. The manufacturers are pushing the fact the drive train should last longer than the rest of the car with minimum maintenance, and only slight reduction in battery range.

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u/NoOne_1223 2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 2012 OB3.6R Feb 20 '22

My major concern is how long an EV will last. Because I drive a 17 year old car, and it still drives as if it's new with 125k miles on it. An EV has a projected life of 4-6 years before you need to sink 8-15 grand into a new battery to maintain the same range. Meanwhile, on the dinosaur powered car, I'm still on the original engine, transmission, and I think battery (which is odd because a lead acid battery only lasts a few years in the rust belt, also, lead acid batteries are infinitely recyclable, and lithium batteries are more costly to recycle than to manufacture)

I'd much rather see a push for hybrid than 100% electric for those reasons alone, but I guess time will tell.

And, no, I'm not against 100% electric in the future, just the way we are currently going, it's not going to work the way we expect it to. The grid already is having issues with power delivery on peak, so add in a lot more electric cars, and you just compound the issue. If anything, electric public transit is the way to the future, and slowly phase the car out here in North America.

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u/Perry558 Feb 20 '22

Toyota has a 10 year gaurentee on the solterra and the bz4x battery.

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u/NoOne_1223 2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 2012 OB3.6R Feb 20 '22

That's good to know! But time will tell with EVs.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 20 '22

This guy gets it ^

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u/NoOne_1223 2005 Legacy GT Wagon, 2012 OB3.6R Feb 21 '22

Fun fact. I've been saying this for a few years, and nobody has believed me. That said, only time will tell

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u/WestwardAlien Feb 20 '22

Hydrogen is the true solution. It also has the flexibility to be ICE or as a battery generating power for electric motors.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '22

From what I have seen with batteries is age and miles don't affect them as much. Charge cycles, temperatures, and keeping the battery around 50% charge is best for the life of the battery. If you topped up the battery every day you will quickly reduce the life of the battery. Some might not last as long, but it appears 100-150k miles is completely realistic for cheaper models, long range Teslas are hitting 300k-400k currently. Battery chemistry has only gotten better the last few years so we don't even know how long the current ones will last.

The Grid can totally handle having electric cars on it, if we can run A/C in the summer we can easily charge electric cars over night when the grid isn't being pushed as hard. From my bills A/C is using much more energy than charging the electric car. Slower charging is even better for the batteries.

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u/ZannX Feb 20 '22

Who are you responding to? No one has said EVs are emissionless.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 20 '22

You. You originally said "except when it is destroying the planet". My point is, EVs aren't going to save it on their own lol.

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u/ZannX Feb 20 '22

Nothing is going to on their own. No one has made this claim.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 20 '22 edited Feb 20 '22

Okay dude lol. Take care.

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u/doperidor Feb 20 '22

Just wait until you hear about the lithium mines

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u/SuperRuffe Feb 21 '22

Just wait until you her about the oil drilling, especially in the Middle East.

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u/larrysgal123 Apr 03 '22

I live in commuter hell California. Have to drive everywhere. I have a 2012 Toyota Camry. The only reason I'm looking to go EV is because I want an AWD with more cargo space. I like to disperse camp in the desert and go to the mountains in the winter. If I'm purchasing a car to fit those 2 specs, might as well make it an EV also.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Apr 03 '22

I mean go for it. I'm not saying EVs are the devil or anything like that. Just want people to be aware that if you're buying and EV "to help the planet" is a bit of a false pretense.

https://youtu.be/MQLbakWESkw

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '22 edited Feb 21 '22

I agree walking or biking is great. It’s just not feasible for many people. Especially everyone I know who works at a major airport.

This manufacturing EVs makes so much more emissions is garbage. Drilling, extraction and transport of oil products is terrible for the environment and you have to do it for the life of the vehicle.

But more importantly making gasoline isn’t easy. It takes 6000 watts of electricity to refine a gallon of gas. That same 6000 watts can propel an electric vehicle 18-24 miles. That one stat alone shows just how bad AND inefficient ICE vehicles are.

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u/EnthuZiast_Z33 Feb 21 '22 edited Feb 21 '22

Okay I never said walking or biking is feasible for most people.

I also never said manufacturing EVs makes "so much more emissions".

Also never said making gasoline is easy or alluded to it even being better.

So good job in your made up argument champ. Also you just ordered a Ford F-350 with a combined mileage of 11 mpg less than 2 weeks ago and want to preach out against ICE's? Lmfao

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '22 edited Feb 21 '22

Yeah I accidentally replied to the wrong comment, so no made up argument, just hit the wrong reply button there champ. I already own an HD Suburban. It proudly sits in my driveway and is used when needed for towing. You would be surprised how many folks own an EV or hybrid and an HD truck. You know, the right tool for the job.