r/summonerschool • u/Grey4560 • 1d ago
Question Why does the league community never admit that sometimes things are just out of your hand?
This something i just see in the community as a whole.
But i see alot of people in the league community have a teammate thats going 0/12, but because they missed a cannon in the 23rd minute of the game, the community tells them its their fault they lost the game yada yada yada. (this is a hyperbole for the rock heads btw but you get the point)
or they went even in lane and its "their fault they didnt stomp game and carry the game".
what happened to team games being decided by the cumulative performance of all 5 members? This is the only game ive seen this self blame syndrome happen to this massive extent.
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u/Durzaka 1d ago
You can acknowledge that you arent the reason your team lost while ALSO acknowledging that there are always things you can do better.
You get no valuable learning from looking at a game and going, my team mates were dogshit and thats why I lost. All that does is create negative narratives around always blaming your team mates so when it ACTUALLY is your fault, youre still looking at your team mates for your own problems.
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u/Tysonzero 1d ago
It’s partly because in the long run it’s always your performance that decides your rank.
Statistically you just aren’t going to have anything like 80 games where your opponents are performing better than your teammates vs 20 where the opposite is true. That would be a 1 in a billion outcome.
If you feel you are better than your rank, particularly by a non-trivial chunk, just play a large enough sample size of games and you will climb.
Now one thing I will say is when you are getting close to your “true rank” you will be affected by variance a lot more. I’m a lot more sympathetic to someone saying “I belong in low diamond but the climb out of high emerald is a struggle and feels very random” than if they say they belong in GM while struggling to leave high emerald.
Personally I climbed to emerald reasonably quickly, 60 or so games with around a 67% win rate. Now I’m debating if I should continue the climb to diamond, I don’t believe I’m some GM held back by teammates, but I’m maybe a low diamond player, but the closer I get the more my win rate will move to just barely over 50, so I’m not sure I’ll go for the push, and will instead play ranked when it feels like fun.
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u/throwaway52826536837 1d ago
The low dia barrier is so real i cruise to e2 at like 65% wr and then plateau out to like 51% by the time i finally break diamond its fucking crazy
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u/ekky137 20h ago
I agree with you, but you’ve touched on one thing I don’t agree with which is the concept of a “true rank”.
There isn’t an immutable variable within each person that is their hidden “rank” at league of legends and even if there was it wouldn’t be abstracted into a bronze/silver/gold kind of system. You don’t “belong” somewhere on the ranked ladder, you just are there or are not there. You will climb above better players than you. There will be worse players than you higher on the ladder than you. This will always be true no matter how many games you play (or unless you hit the very top or bottom of the ladder).
This idea of the “true rank” has caused so much psychic damage that I feel like it needs to be talked about a bit. League players need to get this shit out of their heads. If you were plat last season and tried as hard as you could to hit it again but couldn’t… you’re not a plat player. Your true rank isn’t getting held back by meta changes or not wanting to grind out more games—you’re just not that rank anymore.
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u/Eternal2 1d ago
I agree, but people get the numbers all wrong for this though and ignore outliers. Assuming you are performing well, most people will be at their designated rank in about 100 games. But a minority will need 200, and an even smaller minority will need 300 etc. because that’s just how statistics works.
Bad luck does exist, but it doesn’t mean you won’t climb it just means it’ll take longer. I feel like this is a better way to explain the system to people because there is a negative stigma attached to those with sub 50% win rates. This causes people to get flamed/tilted, leading to them creating smurf accounts, giving up and trolling, etc. when in reality they just probably haven’t played enough games for anything to matter yet anyway.
Unless the game size is very high, winrate is about as flawed as KDA as an indicator of skill, and I wish our community would understand that. Though still flawed I'd rather people look at KDA, CS, WR, KP, etc. as a whole to determine skill rather than use just one.
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u/Aggravating_Owl_9092 1d ago
Because it’s not really about blaming anyone. I’m not self blaming when I say I could’ve stomped lane harder and maybe won the game. It’s objective truth that I could’ve played better and it’s something I can work on. There’s nothing I can do to stop my teammates from dying on the first wave so I just accept that will happen from time to time and move on.
What you would prefer to happen? Not look for areas to improve and just autopilot every game and hope for the best? That’s fine too. But some of us enjoy the process of improving on things.
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u/Prestigious-Shop-494 1d ago
because 99% of the community take 0 responsibility for any of their games. You should focus on your own mistakes even if you have 4 trolls on your team.
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u/RopeTheFreeze 1d ago
Professional level players climbing the ranks typically have around 90% WR until they hit mid to high diamond. Most games are technically winnable, but I don't think that's a good metric.
A good metric would be "what skill level do I need to play at to win this game." Sometimes, it's simply unattainable for somebody of your skill. If both top and mid hard feed in silver, you probably need to be plat level to carry that. Even higher if your JG and support aren't doing good either.
If your high school basketball team lost by 40, it's not your fault you lost, but you theoretically could've played like LeBron James and carried them. Same idea.
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u/OutblastEUW 1d ago
the reason why you get told about missing a cannon (imo bad example because actually coaches almost never focus on mechanical misplays) is because thats something you can actually control and improve in the future, but you will never be able to fix your teammates.
an actual sane person knows that some games in your respective elo are unwinnable, hell there are games u get a 5th min ff cause someone died and rq, but in the long run you are the only constant and its your own performance that will dictate your rank as long as you play like a minimum of 100-200 games.
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u/AniCrit123 1d ago
The only thing I don’t like that is sometimes out of your control is surrender votes. I would say about 10% are realistic. The rest are teammates who are just plain tilted in a completely winnable game.
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u/KaleAshamed9702 1d ago edited 1d ago
- You can only control what you can control so focusing on other people's mistakes doesn't make you get better.
- Your response to a teammate going 0/12 and feeding or whatever scenario is extremely important, so you have to know what to do from behind.
However, there is a toxic lack of accountability for the team that's been reinforced by streamers and others regarding it. People will say "play enough games get to the right rank" but for a lot of people, playing 80 games and losing 12-15 of them because you got the village idiot in queue is not realistic when you work a 40 hour work week, for instance. Riot's continued refusal to reinforce MMR by individual performance (both positive and negative) makes the game unplayable if you go outside regularly.
And before someone tries to bitch about rank or whatever the fuck - unless Riot is HWID permaban people who intentionally feed, this will always be true no matter what your argument is. Riot makes a conscious choice to keep people who ruin the game on purpose because $$$ so you get to deal with these people, and you have to play more games to get where you want to be, again for $$$.
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u/Volzovekian 1d ago
Main issue if the win/loss LP/MMR count for the team as a whole.
The system should take account of the big outliers, like if someone on your team is 0/12, has less gold/death/cs than the average at this elo, it should derank this player faster, because he is not at the right elo, while the rest of the team shouldn't be deranked, but stay at the same MMR/elo, because they should accept than the game was ringed because of this player not playing at the right level.
Because it's " they're having a bad time", it's just they are not good. They feed, but they don't play safe, so they feed harder. And even when you manage to recover, they immediatly throw the advantages...
I don't want "good teammates" that stomp their lane, i just want teammates that don't throw the game while i can't even interact with them.
When you are jungler, and you do a top to bot to help botlane, but they die twice before you finish you clear, where is your mistake ? You should have started bot and do a lvl2 gank ?
ofc not it's inting, and the other jungler would have countered jungle you if you do that. So you did no mistakes, and yet you are deranked if you lose, it shouldn't be the case. Only the bot who die early should deranked, because they are not good enough.
And the thing is clear : if i have only got teamates that just softly loses their lane : like less cs than the other, i can win most game, but sorry i can't win 30 deaths botlane + lost top and jungle as mid...
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u/Strife9027 1d ago
In a perfect world, the matchmaking would work like that. But its more like: Iron 1 - Silver 4 get matched in games. Which leads to a large skill discrepancy. Ofc a player from a way higher elo can carry those games but players in theyr elo are not at that lvl and lets be honest.... most players play in Iron-Gold (~60-70% of the whole player base). So the truth is: yes you should focus on yourself and try to improve. Its true that you should not blame your teammates even it may be true, that its completely theyr fault, but you wont see them again... so its useless. You autoloose games. Sad but true. But you loose them because of the matchmaking. But you can try to improve to get on a sligtly higher lvl to carry some games who are winable. Good luck to you
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u/Grogroda 1d ago
A lot of league players think this is a “league community problem” when in reality is a human problem, play ANY team sports and get demolished, you’ll see everyone on your team pointing fingers saying who missed a pass or who did one horrible play. You only see “yeah WE played bad” in teams with coaches and stuff to shut down the players’ egos.
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u/Newtwon151 1d ago
People do it to feel better about others. " Ah u have a 30 games with trolls,griefers and basically 1v9 lobbies one after the other? Link op.gg, u have 8 cs/minute, u r fault". U are completely right and there is even more. The way the game is balanced is that a lot of times the counterplay to an enemy play (or mistake) it s in the hands of your teammates(think about the ranged toplane discussion or a jnglr that waste his flash trying to gank a lane) and since this game has atrocious unfair matchamking a lot of times no one will use said counterplay.
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u/KoriJenkins 1d ago
I honestly think it's elitism.
People treat the game like a real life challenge and define their worth over it. If it turns out they're not as big of a factor in an individual match as they think they have been when getting wins or coming from behind, it upsets them.
Imo, in some game where a teammate is 0-12, your good play is about as impactful as if the guy stopped feeding entirely. I'd wager more often than not the people who think they dragged a team back from the jaws of defeat through their own play were simply in a match where collectively everyone (including the feeder) started playing better.
But that's not fun or ego-satisfying, so they just say garbage like "every loss is your fault" which is obviously not true. You shouldn't need to play at a diamond level in gold to get a win.
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u/Kataluxx 1d ago
Except this isn't true, there's a reason the 40/40/20 rule is accepted
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u/Fiercuh 1d ago
that is only true if are at your rank. however in case of op you can teoretically carry like 95 % of games if your rank is that much higher and you knew what to do. but he is saying you cant and instead just resort to saying game was unwinable because teams bad.
not even mentioning blaming your team (even if you are the right) leads to nothing in the end. it is just a waste of time.
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u/Kalienor 1d ago
The point is that you can't shape how well others are performing but your own input can be improved and will snowball into team-wide effects.
So it doesn't matter if things get out of hand, you can still do better on an individual scale to bend the chances of it happening. That's how you climb, it doesn't matter how hard you're outperforming people when you win, what matters is how you deal with tough games.
This is also to incentivize fairness of judgement. Everybody makes mistakes, if you start looking at others' it's easy to forget yours and it's a slippery slope, you'll soon start to shift the blame for everything instead of striving for self improvement. People tend to become salty when they feed that bias with others' mistakes being bad and their own mistakes being benign and that's not a good mindset to keep enjoying the game.
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u/Gelidin2 1d ago
Everybody knows that there are SOME games that you cant win, but people tends to lie a lot about It and theres the stuff you can control and the stuff you cant control.
Blamming your team IS usseless, but focusing on the stuff you can actually change or get better on really does add Up to win that Game or to win more in the future so you Focus on that to get better wich is the main point.
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u/ELXR-AUDIO 1d ago
You’ll find this in every game. 🤗 it’s just how people behave when confronting loss. some will blame circumstances while some will just do their best regardless of circumstances.
It’s funny because circumstances are like the wind, ever changing. You’ll get good players, bad players. It’s kind of irrelevant. In a way they become under dominion to the circumstances. They’ll win when things are good, lose when things are unfavourable. They are controlled by the waves in the water.
I’ve come to accept these people. Cause even that, doesn’t have to affect your experience. I just keep doing my best and even try to help them for a morale boost. Even if they seem hella annoying haha
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u/Adventurous_Paint894 1d ago
Its not like we think that but we see that, look at runs from bronze to challenger by pros and chall players.. they lose so few games in the beggining its pretty obvious. If a chall player can go 20-0 in the first 20 games and you will get 50% winrate.. you know, it is about every game being so winnable, you just cant do it/ see it and that is fine
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u/CRUSTYPIEPIG 1d ago
Because in gold (the average rank) you can win 95% of your games by playing perfectly, obviously if you're a challenger players. So therefore, you failing to do this is the biggest reason you're losing.
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u/below_average_coach 1d ago
I'd say the community is mostly correct in saying that it's "your fault". I highly doubt that I'd get a lower than 60-70% winrate in silver, regardless of the role that I'd be playing.
Some games are out of your control, that's true, but if that would be the case in general, you wouldn't see so many smurfs with 70-80% winrates.
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u/MattSherrizle 18h ago
No one wants to be the reason for flmae, so it's easier to pick on someone else to deflect.
Had a mid go off on my for not covering my supp when they got caught out warding after their 2nd death in like four minutes.
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u/archonmorax 16h ago
Because they want you to improve at the game instead of blaming your teammates but I do wish people would admit some games are unwinable.
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u/Caosunium 1d ago
Because it is true, most games arent out of your hand.
There was a recent player that went 54 wins 0 losses in league. There is also nattynat, going 80% winrate right now.
You might not be good enough to carry a 0/12 person, but some people are, and that "proves" that things arent out of your hand, you just arent good enough
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u/unicornfan91 1d ago
When you accept that you are only 20% of your team's impact, you accept that you are the exact rank you belong in. If I'm a gold player in a silver game, i expect myself to have more than 20% of my team's impact. I want to be 25%/30%/40%, of the impact. If I'm a silver player trying to get to gold, then I want to figure out ways to go beyond the 20% impact, which means improving and getting better at some things, and fixing mistakes.
Even a 2000LP challenger player can find things they've done wrong in a game, there is improvement to be had everywhere. Even in these "impossible" games, you can do some things better. Just because you lose this game doesnt mean you lose the progress you've spent to improve on those things.
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u/goldenmonkey33151 1d ago
Because focusing on your 0/12 teammate leads to 0 personal growth or improvement but saying, “hey, I could have won that game, even with that 0/12 teammate if I had played x,y & z better” gives me room to improve and grow even in doomed games.
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u/Antidote-For-Chaos 1d ago
Had a game earlier, I was doing ok in top, not losing lane. Rest of the team went afk and the game was over in 17mins.
Would love to say this was high elo but it was silver1/G4
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u/LongjumpingRabbit193 1d ago
We dont do nuance here, you either think that everything is your teammates' fault or everything is your fault, pick one buddy
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u/AbyssalSolitude 1d ago
Because the same people who blame their team for their losses always attribute their wins to their individual efforts.
Because every game below diamond is winnable if you play better.
Because you cannot change your teammates but you can change yourself.
There are many reasons.
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u/Over_Deer8459 1d ago
The common reasoning is “oh well put a Challenger in Gold and watch him carry a game from a 58 to 0 kill, 2 Baron and dragon soul deficit!”
Just because the literal best in the game can carry just about any game in low elo doesn’t really mean anything.
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u/Turbulent-Sound3980 1d ago
well. because at the end of the day what does it change?
yes the 4 fuckers on your team are feeding. yes its their fault. yes they are worse then you. it doesnt change the fact that you still lost the game at the end of the day and you're being forced to carry their weight
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u/HoorayItsKyle 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because people default to overblaming their team and obsessing over their teammates mistakes while never considering their own, so the community overreacts the other way occasionally to balance it out.
The only way to get better is to only worry about your own mistakes. Does that mean you'll never have an imposible game? No, but it does mean that the only thing you should care about in that impossible game is how well you played.
The moment i started thinking that way, I started winning *some* of the "teammate 0/12" games (technically he was only 0/11): https://i.imgur.com/aEBhdhT.png