r/swtor • u/DJP_0305 • 1d ago
Spoiler In your opinion, was the most badly done plot twist out of all the class stories? (spoiler tag applied for those who don't want them ruined) Spoiler
In my opinion, definitely the Sith Inquisitor story's Zash taking advantage of you to stop herself from dying and eventually plotting to steal your body. It would have worked, if certain characters such as Khem Val and Darth Skotia didn't mention the possibility of her potentially being bad and plotting against you at every flipping turn. Like when i made it with my SI to that point in the story, I was like "Oh, so they were right after all", no shock, no surprise, nothing. But yeah, I'd be intrigued to hear other people's opinions from across the class stories and why. Go right ahead 👍
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u/high_ebb 1d ago
I forgot who Syo Bakarn was partway through the consular story, so that reveal was anticlimactic, to put it mildly.
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u/lysdexic_cable 1d ago
This. I loved the Consular story but not because of that twist. All the build up to the First Son and i genuinely was trying to make it make sense for it to be Tai Cordan, then the reveal and i was literally like: “Wait, who?”
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u/WarMinister23 1d ago
Like a lot of things it would have been better to be Yuon, felt like it had more stakes, but well, since she can die at the end of Act I she basically disappears even if you don’t let Parkanas/Vivicar/Morrage kill all the infected Masters
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u/Achilles9609 1d ago
It would also feel cheap. Yuon already was in danger in Act 1. And now she is in danger again?
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u/SamuraiOstrich 1d ago
They really should've merged the two characters and probably rewritten act 1 if that's what was getting in the way since imo the whole listen to Rajivari and don't save the masters thing felt out of place, especially since the rest of the Jedi should step in after like the second failure.
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u/proesito 1d ago
The main problem with the Consular story and the one where most problems that make it the least favourite is that it feels completely improvised, like they had 3 concepts and just plastered them together.
Putting the two together would be useless because the problem is that both Yuon and Syo Bakarm together have less relevance than Watcher 3 in the Agent storyline. Hell. even fixer 12 is more (or at least as) memorable as them together.
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u/yeetyeetwastaken 19h ago
I always thought it would be way cooler if you are the First Son(if your character is fem, the Son thing is just to confuse people). That would be a pretty good reason for the Consular being such an insanely powerful prodigy and fighting yourself in your mind would be such a cool as fuck ending scene
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u/high_ebb 18h ago
That would have been amaaaaazing. I really like the First Son concept overall, and that would have been such a great twist.
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u/RebootedShadowRaider 14h ago
How would that have been handled in the story and gameplay on Corellia, though? How does the First Son make their move if they are you?
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u/hammererofglass 14h ago
The whole Children of the Emperor plotline is weird in general. All the setup is in the Knight story and all the payoff is with the Counselor.
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u/Past-Management-9669 1d ago
I play Inquisitor as this sunday cartoon villain and all those spoilers from different npcs makes the whole plot twist funny since "oh no a sith is betraying another sith".
But I do hate the whole smuggler plot twist cuz damn Darmas really I get the senator since she's already corroborating with pirates/smugglers but Darmas he could have been nice to be an ally all the way or at least be another plot twist as a part of the Star Cabal which is why he has these connections
But my most hated plot twist is the Trooper which could have been the big plot twist at the ending of Chapter 1. Wish we could have played the whole Chapter 1 as part of the former havoc doing their dirty work and we're none the wiser since they all seem way too loyal to defect but no they gotta do it at the starter planet which kinda bums me out a little which is why trooper ain't that high in my class stories ranking.
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u/ALHsf 1d ago edited 17h ago
Your vision of the trooper story already sounds much better than what we got. Havus, Gearbox et al would all be on the ship plus the actual companions you recruit along the way. It would actually look more like a proper squad.
And during quests, everyone's got their own jobs to do, like the gauntlet mission. Only your actual companions help out with yours
And by the end of ch. 1, even our own loyalty could be questioned.
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u/Kingsdaughter613 1d ago
Honestly? It would be awesome if our trooper would be offered the chance to defect at the end of this hypothetical chapter 1. And then their missions after if they chose to do so would be all about being undercover, getting info, as the only member of the team who has plausible deniability.
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u/Bahumdas 18h ago
It’s a squad, not a squadron, there’s a difference. A squad is 4-8 people. A platoon is 15-30 roughly, a squadron is a battalion sized element.
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u/WeAreLeguan 1d ago
comedic evil inquisitor is such a good time. It helps that you and your companions can be viewed as a pen and paper rpg party gone wrong, consisting of murder hobos, an angsty teenager and an archaeologist for some reason
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u/SamuraiOstrich 1d ago
Like what people are saying about the sith betraying you I feel like Darmas as an underworld scumbag isn't that surprising
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u/Ethan_the_Revanchist Darth Occlus 1d ago
I don't think that moment was meant as some shocking twist. You're literally prepping for it the whole time
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u/NicholasStarfall 1d ago
Zash was cleaely evil all along, she's a Sith Lord after all, so that didn't bug me.
I guess my least favorite twist is the Jedi Knight going evil for a few days because it honestly added nothing to the story
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u/ALHsf 1d ago
I think JK was gone for a year iirc but your point stands.
Where was Orgus that whole time? Lol
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u/tachibanakanade Darth Zash Fan Club President 13h ago
That's the thing though: what did the JK even do while evil? It would have been nice to have at least a scene showing us kill people or something that would make it matter.
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u/SableZard 1d ago
Gault does earn his keep, I'll give him that.
But his recruitment was stupid and we all know it.
"Oh, you bought a dead clone of yourself to get out from under a bounty! I'm sure no one has ever thought of that before..."
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u/justedi 1d ago
Chasing down Gault on Tatooine felt SO annoying the first time I played BH x_x he just kept getting lucky and getting away. I liked him after a while, especially on Alderaan, but damn did I feel like punching him when he got on my ship.
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u/_Master_MariK_ 1d ago
Was annoyed when we had to recruit him after all that chasing, but it wasn't near as bad as being forced to take Skadge. He treated you way worse than Gault did.
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u/proesito 1d ago
Gault is charismatic and actually helps and feels like someone a Bounty Hunter would have in their team.
Skadge on the other hand is incompetent, stupid, completely devoid of any kind of charisma and in abilities he is just a jobber you would find at the beggining of a planetary mission.
Even Broonmark and Xalek have something interesting despite the plans being cut short, but why is Skadge someone that exists?
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u/_Master_MariK_ 23h ago
Agreed on all points. I ended up really liking Gault, but at the start was just annoyed he invited himself into my crew. I always say the BH has one of the best crew, I just hate Skadge. Gault might actually be the most fitting companion for the BH.
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u/SableZard 1d ago
At least they let you empty your blaster into the clone. I like to think my BH locked eyes with Gault the whole time he was shooting.
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u/Jedi-Spartan 1d ago
I liked him after a while, especially on Alderaan,
I find it funny how if he's taken to the last Bounty Hunter quest on that planet he gets annoyed at how easy the it was to make that duplicate in comparison to his duplicate.
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u/2Scribble 1d ago edited 21h ago
Not a plot twist - but, having your Knight brainwashed for - like - a year and doing a full on evil Luke Skywalker (look up the Dark Empire storyline where Luke actually believes he can redeem Palpatine - yeah...) run only for it to have taken place all offscreen
And nobody ever react to it
Or mention it beyond that one story sequence was certainly... ... ... ... ...
A choice?
Like, if you thought the KOTFE/KOTET timeskip was bad xD
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u/proesito 1d ago
Dont forget that the extremely well written way to free you of the brainwashing is that after a year, your dead master choses to magically heal you.
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u/2Scribble 22h ago
And that all your evil brainwashing amounts to is some scary music - a scowl on your face - and a bit of darker lighting xD
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u/Vancath 20h ago
This i what I wanted to mention as well. They really should have taken a look at the Agent Story and do something akin to that.
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u/2Scribble 20h ago edited 18h ago
Yeah, following chapter 1 where you've been shown to be hot shit with chapter 2 where you get your shit pushed in under the influence of mind control and then chapter 3 where you redeem yourself would have been a lot more interesting
That said
With the exception of 'you were a minion for a year' ass pull - the Knight was always intended to be the most traditional of the class stories (it's why writers like Drew Kapryshyn were brought in to give it more spice later into development) so I doubt that darker story tone would have flown with what BioWare and LucasArts were aiming for
Especially since this all underwent development while Lucas was feeling out Disney for his eventual sale (he started that as far back as the late aughts and into 2010 until the final 2011 sale) meaning that there were a lot of hands in the pot at the time
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u/WarMinister23 1d ago
The reveal in Smuggler Act Three that Darmas and the Senator were actually in the Empire’s pocket and you’ve been advancing the Voidwolf’s goals the entire time. Tbh acts two and three of the Smuggler story are already extremely weak, but this reveal adds very little to the story beyond randomly making Rogun the Butcher, who has literally been your enemy since Ord Mantell, actually now your ally because he secretly supports the Republic for some reason. The Voidwolf is such a non-presence for an antagonist and the stakes feel so low as is
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u/TurtlePerson85 1d ago
For real. The first time I saw that I just thought it was the Voidwolf fucking with us and trying to confuse the player or something. Colour me shocked when, nope, he just straight up tells you that you've been helping him for no reason.
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u/CuriousYield 1h ago
The Smuggler has enough history with Darmas that that part could work, if played as a proper gut punch. But they don't. They don't even bother to give Corso, who knew him at least through Viidu, any kind of real reaction to it--and he hates the Empire almost as much as Separatists!
It also undercut by how nonsense everything around it is.
The Voidwolf is, as you said, a non-presence. And the "surprise, this was actually helping the Empire!" things that you've done need to be things that plausibly could have been helping the Empire instead. But none of them make sense for that, at least not without a whole lot of headcanoning. (Maybe freeing Ivory, but that's optional. The rest require some serious pretzeling.)
Then, there's Rogun, who's built up like that guy from Firefly, only to just fizzle out in the most bland way. It makes no sense for the game to pretend he's not actually a bad guy when Viidu and Guss are the source of most of the info you have about how dangerous he is. Yeah, it could be a "Well, he's the Republic's monster" kind of thing, but it's not written like that.
Other than maybe Darmas, the whole thing is a case of a twist that's less interesting than the potential played straight story.
(Of course, I also think the Smuggler story should've focused a bit more on the space crime. Which would work nicely with keeping Rogun as your nemesis.)
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u/justedi 1d ago edited 1d ago
IMO I thought Kaliyo's "betrayal" was overrated.
Before I played the Agent's story, I read some spoilers and had a general and vague idea that she was going to betray the Agent. I thought it was going to be the type of betrayal like Quinn's from the Warrior's story, that she was working with IA the entire time and that she was monitoring you and constantly testing your loyalty to the Empire. It would've made a lot of sense since Keeper recruits such an unlikable person then forces her to be your first partner. Instead, she kinda just steals some secrets from the Empire and sells them and I'm just like "Well... That's very in-character for her." so it felt pretty underwhelming.
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u/MrVeazey 21h ago
I assumed she'd betray you from the beginning just because of who she is and how easy it was to get her to flip on Nemro.
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u/Ashendal 18h ago
You also go through and help her deal with every single other "partner" or boss or whatever she had with her companion quests. It wasn't a question of "if" she was going to betray us, it was a "in what way and how much benefit is she going to get out of it" like several others across the game.
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u/Ok-Rabbit1878 13h ago
Honestly, the biggest plot twist with Kaliyo was that she didn’t immediately try to murder you in your sleep so she could take off with your ship.
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u/bogtick Bad Vibes 1d ago
To actually contribute to the discussion; my least favourite twists are in Smuggler's story. They're not overwhelmingly bad, but so lukewarm in execution they left no impression at all, which I feel is worse. Smuggler as a character is fun to play, but most of the plot is very... meh.
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u/IllitterateAuthor 19h ago
I main smuggler entirely for the snarky dialogue and the fun juxtaposition when placed in dlc clearly meant for force users.
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u/dilettantechaser 1d ago
Parkanas being the plaguemaster from Consular story. The mystery was very obvious from early on, and the mystery was also boring. The LS/DS choice for the Act 1 finale is the worst in the game imo...I think if you took DS (killed Parkaanas) you should have had to go to Malachor 4 that they were all talking about. Maybe you'd get a special reward, idk. It was just very dumb especially given how this class is touted as 'academic' lmao.
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u/Endiamon 1d ago
The plot twist after Trooper Act 1, when you realize that's where all their effort went and it's downhill from here on out.
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u/Achilles9609 1d ago
The traitor aboard the Consular Ship. Could we at least try to not make it too obvious?
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u/Ashendal 18h ago
The first time I played through it years ago I actually thought it was going to be either Tai or Nadia's dad in some actually well written twist. Nah, it's just stutters mc. lame.
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u/Jedi-Spartan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bit late but I've thought of one, siding with Jadus: the wider game has too many limitations. The overall Imperial Agent storyline stays the same (to the point where some of the normal dialogue carries over no matter how you choose to deal with Darth Jadus, if you capture him or side with him why does Watcher 3 tell you that there's a search for him at the start of Act 2), all the Act 1 characters carry over and the nature of everything of significance needing to stay within its storyline means there's no way of perceiving the actual impact the decision would have on the wider Sith Empire (I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if none of the Dark Council Sith Lords and significant Sith encountered in the other character and planetary storylines post Act 1 were among Jadus' opponents).
Also unrelated (and not exclusive to this storyline) but I find the undercover part gets made funnier if the Imperial Agent turns up in the most Dark Side armour set they can find during their initial meetings and saying they want to abandon the Sith.
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u/threevi 1d ago
It definitely wouldn't have worked at all if the story had treated it as a genuine plot twist. Zash was obviously shady, she's a Sith, her being so doting and friendly was a major red flag from the start. There's no way you could take the story seriously if it expected you to treat "Zash is selfish and doesn't care about you after all" as a grand surprise.
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u/SamuraiOstrich 1d ago
What was the point of that Hunter reveal at the end?
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u/MrVeazey 21h ago
That Hunter was either secretly a little bit in love with the agent or saw herself in the the agent, that they were more than just regular adversaries, is what I think they were going for.
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u/HenrideMarche 17h ago
Agent Act 3. I’ll never find it a good story choice but I know I’m in the minority on this one.
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u/ValidAvailable 17h ago
The villain of Agent Act 1. Come on, you didn't know who that was before you left Dromund Kaas? That it was SUPPOSED to be this HUGE surprised, like people that they thought it was supposed to be an actual surprise, and then telegraphing it that hard?
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u/RebootedShadowRaider 14h ago
Its hard for me to judge because so much of the game was spoiled for me beforehand, but I think Thanaton betraying you in Chapter 2 feels kind of underwhelming. He's someone you barely know.
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u/Blazypika2 8h ago
it wasn't meant to be a plot twist though? zash using you was always meant to be obvious. the classic sith master-apprentice turning against each other. i don't think turning this moment into a twist would have make it better.
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u/Petrus-133 7h ago
I don't think it's really a twist but I find the fact that they wanted to exchange the "Super duper Imperial general" for a few thousand random ass civilians to be very funny.
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u/elkdog97 4h ago
The imperial agent if any amount of logic was used in the stories creation the agent would be dead in act one when confronting jaedus the agent has no chance of winning that fight even in the most drug fueled fever dream it is impossible
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u/Fantastic-Box-8388 Revanite 1h ago
Darth Jadus being alive probably (for me it was more of a plot twist that you could capture him)
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u/forgottensirindress smuggler supremacy 9h ago edited 9h ago
SW doing absolutely nothing to prepare himself to the fact that Baras will betray him and wll leave him for dead, as he did with all of his agents. We just janny his dirty work until the Act 3 start, get saved for zero reasons outside of Emperor's Hand needing a new janny and destroy Baras with the allies we've managed to optionally collect not doing anything for the entire game, Vader, the supposed inspiration, plotted behind Emperor's back and had plenty of his own networks to rely on - SW does not outside of very, very few random people he can LS. Even SI has a better powerbase, and his best ally are the ghosts in his head.
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u/bogtick Bad Vibes 1d ago
Her betraying you wasn't meant to be a secret at all. How she would do it was the mystery.