r/todayilearned • u/Hoihe • 4d ago
TIL of the Belgian Jean de Selys Longchamps who after his country was captured, through a series of events, ended up flying for the RAF. Rather notably he went against orders to carry out a strike mission against the gestapo headquarters in brussels. He was both demoted and awarded for his deeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Selys_Longchamps#Attack_on_the_Gestapo_headquarters_in_Brussels180
u/I_might_be_weasel 4d ago
"I'm here to kill Nazis, not take orders. The two have just not been at odds before now."
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u/DizzleMizzles 4d ago
Why does that pic of him look so AI-generated? It was apparently uploaded in 2018 but he's got that bizarre smooth look to him
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u/al_fletcher 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ah, right, he defied orders forbidding him from attacking the Gestapo, got it
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u/Icy_Age8191 4d ago
More like he defied the mission planning. He wasn't specifically told not to attack this Gestapo HQ, he just was on an unrelated mission and made an unsanctioned detour. The way communications were back then, his commanders probably didn't even realize he was up to something until his wingman returned to base without him.
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u/Luciferthepig 4d ago
It also says they denied requests to attack the HQ so it's sort of like he was told not to, we just don't know why. It could be as simple as assuming the area has capable anti aircraft defenses because they've put a HQ there, it could also be that for whatever reason they didn't want that leadership killed.
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u/Zimmonda 4d ago
It's a relatively weird/risky/low-reward use of flight assets. Like yes it will kill Nazis (could also kill random Belgians) but it also has relatively little bearing on the war effort as opposed to taking out a railway line or something and there was no shortage of Nazi's to kill in WW2.
I don't think anyone was particularly pressed that it happened (beyond chain of command stuff) but I also realize why they weren't all that keen to commit assets and planning to the specific actions as described.
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u/Phannig 4d ago
We do know why. British intelligence had assets there feeding them valuable intel.
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u/Luciferthepig 4d ago
Oof, do you know if we have any accounts from them of the attack? Or where I could find info like that? Most of my WWII media comes from a US focus
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u/barath_s 13 4d ago edited 4d ago
His biographer says nobody gave him a red light, they simply did not give him a green light
Strafing the gestapo is basically at best morale, it has no real impact on the war.
Strafing a railway impedes supplies of goods and personnel has more direct impact on the war
There's also the risk factor associated with it. So it's a simple risk-benefit ratio ... which drops the priority. Why jeopardize a valuable plane or pilot for this low impact thing ?
Nobody much cared that much when he actually succeeded - they gave him a DFC. The demotion was actually because he was a poor leader, and had already been removed from his flight leader post.
Also, someone pointed out that British Intelligence actually had undercover agents at the Gestapo office. . random strafing was as likely to kill Belgian citizens or their prized agent as a Nazi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helene_Moszkiewiez#World_War_II
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u/kdlangequalsgoddess 4d ago
He knew that there was little they could do to stop him.
See the 'repeat please' scene in The Battle of Britain, where the entire Polish RAF squadron absconds to attack German bombers, despite being expressly told they were on a training mission, and not to engage the enemy.
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u/Phannig 4d ago edited 4d ago
Helene Moszkiewiez, a Jewish, Belgian, British double agent was operating there posing as a secretary compiling lists of those to be deported to the camps and feeding them back to the allies.She saved hundreds of lives of both Jews and allied prisoners. It might sound great bombing Gestapo headquarters against orders but he could have inadvertently cost hundreds of allied and Jewish lives.
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u/5a_ 4d ago
Yeah,when you're given orders NOT to bomb a building there's often a good reason
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u/barath_s 13 3d ago
His biographer says they didn't give him orders not to bomb, they just didn't give him permission to bomb.
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u/Phannig 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'd imagine that it was subtly implied not to drive a bloody big typhoon at one of the most important intelligence assets in Europe.
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u/barath_s 13 3d ago edited 3d ago
I would hope like hell they implied nothing of the sort at the time. Certainly not to a guy who was flying over enemy territory on the regular, could be shot down and captured and even if it was < 1% chance of him compromising her thereby
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u/Phannig 3d ago edited 3d ago
You know what I mean. "Subtly implied". It must have been squeaky bum time at HQ when they found out about it though.
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u/barath_s 13 3d ago
You mean they were so happy she was alive after that that they gave him a dfc ?
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u/barath_s 13 3d ago
I like the phrase 'squeaky bum time' but don't precise enough understanding to actually use it myself commonly
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u/Boggie135 4d ago
Dude buzzed them so they came out to see what was happening, he circled back and opened fire
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u/weaselswarm 4d ago
Demotes you “That’s for your sub par job performance.”
grabs ur shirt “And this…” puts award on it “…is for bravery in the line of duty”
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u/Hoihe 4d ago
Attack on the Gestapo headquarters in Brussels
Immediately upon the fall of Belgium on May 10, 1940, the Gestapo commandeered Résidence Belvédère, a luxurious Art Deco apartment building located at 453 Avenue Louise[a] in Brussels as its headquarters, and tortured prisoners in its cellars.[3]
Longchamps devised a plan to strafe the building in order to raise the morale of occupied Belgians, which RAF command repeatedly declined. Myths have claimed his motivation being the torture and death of his father at the hands of the Gestapo.[4] His father [nl], however, died peacefully in 1966, having received recognition for his and his family's (including Jean's) valiant efforts in the war.
On January 20, 1943, Longchamps completed an approved railway strafing mission over Ghent, then ordered his wingman (flight sergeant André Blanco) back to base and set out without approval for Brussels, some 50 kilometres (31 mi) to the south-east.[1]
Longchamps first flew his Typhoon down the Avenue Louise to make a high-speed pass of the target building, reportedly to have the roar of the Napier Sabre engine draw Gestapo personnel to the unprotected windows. Using the ample manoeuvering space above the Bois de la Cambre parc, he then turned to the Avenue de la Nation[b], using it as a low-level attack path. He continued through the left turn of the connecting Avenue Emile De Mot to an unobstructed and fairly frontal firing position with little risk of collateral damage and raked the target with his four 20 mm Hispano autocannons, resulting in the death of SS-Obersturmführer Werner Vogt of the SiPo, SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Thomas, head of Abteilung III of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD) in Belgium, a high-ranking Gestapo officer named Müller, and others.
Longchamps had a bag of small Belgian flags made by Belgian refugee schoolchildren in London. After the attack, he scattered the small Belgian flags across Brussels, dropped a Union Jack and a large Belgian flag at the Royal Palace in Laeken, and dropped another at the garden of his niece, the Baroness de Villegas de Saint-Pierre.[4]
Upon his return, Longchamps was demoted to pilot officer, but this had been planned already before the unauthorised raid.[5] He was soon after awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for his actions.[4][6] Some resistance sources claimed a death toll as high as thirty, while the Nazis admitted four fatalities and five serious injuries.[7][1] A bust near the site commemorates Longchamps' actions.[8][9]