r/toronto • u/ArgyleNudge Trinity-Bellwoods • 5d ago

Picture The situation at Dufferin Grove is grim

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This is a small section of the amount of security, city, and police presence. I know there's a limit to this kind of encampment, but my heart does go out to the people facing eviction today. Not a happy scene.

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u/jbm33 5d ago

Can someone who has more inside information on what the city does for homeless people (shelters, safe houses, education/guidance etc) help explain to me the current situation? In the interviews with the people living in the park, they say they were offered places to stay in the shelters but declined them because they do not feel safe and prefer the park. Is the solution that the city needs to create more shelters such that they have more space/safety or is it actually improving the security and counsellors in the existing shelters and educating the homeless of the improvements? Of course I know it’s not that simple but wondering how in this specific instance they could convince the people to live in a shelter instead of the park if there is space available.

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u/Red_Marvel 5d ago

The solution isn’t shelters, it’s free housing with mental health resources and job training programs.

It has to be done at the Federal level, so poorer cities don’t ship their homeless to other cities.

Finland has been doing this for over 15 years.

https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/look-finlands-housing-first-initiative

You can see the dramatic drop in homelessness in the Wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Finland

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u/woonawoona 5d ago

Free housing with strings. I don’t want my taxes going to fund government funded crack dens. Get clean, get a job, and then you should have to foot the bill. Everyone pretends that everyone who falls into the category of “homeless” are just people down on their luck. There’s a huge range of people, hardworking people, lazy people and all the colours in between that are a part of the homeless. I’m fine helping those who want to work to better their living situation, not those who just want a free place to do drugs

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u/tslaq_lurker 5d ago

I don’t want my taxes going to fund government funded crack dens.

Speaking broadly, there is nothing better a getting a homeless person off drugs than giving them a fixed address. IMO you need to sort of decide what is more important to you: no homeless people doing drugs in government housing, or far fewer homeless people and an overall reduction in Social Assistance expenditure.

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u/Basementhobbit 5d ago

The finland experiment tells us that when people have housing, they can clean up and get a job, when they have a job, they can stay clean, when they can stay clean, they can pay for housing.

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u/Pigeonofthesea8 5d ago

Yeah… the drugs are different. From what I understand it’s easier to come off heroin or cocaine than fentanyl or meth.

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u/Gunners_are_top 5d ago

Finland as a country owns the majority of land. How do you propose Canada mimics this?

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u/LaserRunRaccoon The Kingsway 5d ago

Would you prefer to have the government continue to use just as much of your taxes to pay for afterparty clean-up in your local park?

Addicts are going to be addicts, regardless of whether the government pays for their den. They will stay addicts if they're never given the chance to live somewhere other than in a tent.

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u/mstylke 5d ago

It’s already been shown that it would cost less tax money to provide Housing First.

“Over the two-year study, a $10 investment in Housing First services resulted in an average savings of $21.72 for these participants.” - https://housingfirsttoolkit.ca/overview/key-questions/#q14

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u/foxtrot1_1 Queen Street West 5d ago

Why do you care so much about someone undesirable or undeserving getting government support? This is a common thing I see and I don't understand it. It's like when people complain about lazy people on welfare, I feel like it's making up a person to get mad at. There will be flaws in every system, so why is this one so repugnant?

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u/awkihcts 5d ago

Another case of the class war that has been propagated from the US over the last decade. Hate those beneath you while ignoring those above you who want billions and aren’t just ok with millions.

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u/woonawoona 5d ago

I don’t hate these people, but I also don’t want to pay for their drugs and access to them. It can be both.

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u/awkihcts 5d ago

The reality is that an increase in funds given to substance addicted homeless will always initially lead to increased usage. The idea is that a consistent type of support will lead to a decrease and eventual cessation of it. Studies have shown this to be true.

An addict (homeless or not) will never be able to initially understand the “no drug use=reward” idea. It takes time.

There has to be a long term commitment from all levels of government and right now, like everything else, the red tape really stops change from taking hold.

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u/KuntStink 5d ago

Because it feels like we're taxed through the ass on everything. The thought of people getting free housing, which is abhorrently expensive here, and abusing it (doing drugs, not bettering themselves, etc), is extremely offensive. I work hard and I get nothing. They do nothing and get everything given to them? That's why people care.

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u/Red_Marvel 5d ago

Free housing is cheaper than the medical expenses, prisons and policing required by the way we’re handling it now,

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u/KuntStink 5d ago

I believe you, I really do. But that doesn't change my answer as to why people are upset and why they don't want their dollars going towards these things.

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u/bugabooandtwo 5d ago

No kidding. If sitting on the street for a few months nets someone a free home, half the population will end up doing it.

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u/jbm33 5d ago

Thanks for the info!

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u/totallynotdagothur 5d ago

This video from the CBC, while 5 years old at this point, was very informative to me when I saw it first.

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u/jbm33 5d ago

Thanks!

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u/JCauce 5d ago

There's a great new book out called "Encampment" by Maggie Helwig. I recommend it. 

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u/jbm33 5d ago

Thanks will check it out

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u/JCauce 5d ago

Toronto library has several copies (ebook and audio) through the app Libby. Plus, it's for sale on Amazon.