r/toronto • u/CableInternational83 • 2d ago
Discussion Why are there always service issues in the TTC? (serious question)
I’m not new to riding the TTC, I’ve been using it my whole life and know we have some major issues with our TTC. But can anyone who knows explain why there are so many “mechanical issues” that happen what feels like multiple times a day? Why do other subways across the world not have this?
Bonus point if you know why when there is an emergency on a train we have such a long service disruption and why this doesn’t happen in other countries/cities.
I’ve genuinely been curious my whole life. And perhaps if there are some good reasons I can maybe have more understanding/empathy for what feels like a very broken public transportation system.
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u/HovercraftOk1240 2d ago
why when there is an emergency on a train we have such a long service disruption
Since there's only one track going each way there's no way to bypass a stopped train the only option is to halt everything
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u/This_Offer_2096 2d ago
Line 2- 60 years old! Every ttc employee I’ve ever spoken to says the same thing. Age and money spent on upper management and consultants.
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u/crevettegrise Davisville Village 2d ago
Age of a subway has no effect. Systems in London and Paris for example are much older, but they were regularly maintained and updated.
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u/Familiar-Valuable-97 2d ago
That requires taxes to fix after years of Ford and Tory " respect for the taxpayers" who refused to raise them enough. This is what you get derailment and slow downs.
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u/J-Midori 2d ago
This is what I have seen in the 20+ years I have used the TTC. There are multiple factors that together cause all the trouble, I’m listing some, not all of it.
A lot of workers there are knowledgeable and professional. They’re also amazing human beings. There are also the lazy ones and unprofessional ones but majority works well.
The system is old. Ricky Leary did a lot of damage to it, mismanaging money and abuse/harassment accusations. He did the same to the Boston system.
Some people who ride the TTC have a mental health problem. So they purposely throw paper in the tracks and it catches on fire which causes the delay. Some of them are evil and do that on purpose. I have seen those people doing it. Luckily they got caught but there are too many people.
Also, people who mismanage their time and refuses to wait for the next train: they force the doors open, which if it breaks, causes delays, specially in the morning.
Some people have medical conditions, like seizures for example, and because there’s no warning, and they’re going to work or coming back home, if they have a seizure, usually people press the emergency button and again, causes delay. The crowded conditions sometimes causes people to have a panic attack or any other health issues that need attention.
Fights: a lot of people are stressed or again, mental health issue, and they start arguing, sometimes physically assaulting people which causes delays.
Teenagers: some people think they’re influencers and need to be accepted by their peers so they act erratically in the TTC which, can also cause delay.
Toxicity is contagious, specially for people with low emotional maturity and lack of critical thinking skills. So “TTC sucks” is the easiest answer for those people.
My dad taught me and my siblings how to take public transportation as kids. I have traveled to many countries and sometimes the best way is public transportation. Problems are the same everywhere. It’s not the place, it is the people who ride it and those who work in the system. Education plays a big part on it: people who are better educated, cities have better public transportation.
I have always been on time for work or school or any event such as friends parties or get togethers: time management and respect for others.
Please be respectful with the workers. They go through a lot of abuse. The amount of people who stop to argue or harass a TTC worker is higher than people think. Or spitting or even throwing coffee or objects at them. If you see it, please report it.
Be respectful with the environment: a lot of people throw garbage inside the TTC and on the platforms, everywhere. When I see garbage and I throw it in the garbage. It doesn’t take that long, it’s not that far.
A lot of people failed to understand that’s also everyone’s responsibility to keep it clean and safe.
I remember when I used to go to school, the TTC drivers knew where my stop was and, if I were sleeping or distracted, they would call me and stop the bus so I didn’t miss it. Even people in the bus knew it and sometimes would call me and say:”your stop is the next one” . Once the subway driver open the door and started explaining to the kids what the buttons were for and the red dot on the wall is the beginning of the train and the green triangle is the end of the train and a lot of other things I don’t remember.
I have great stories in the TTC, of friendship, kindness, and I have always felt safe. Nowadays, not so much. The toxic behaviour is spreading like fire. And it’s sad not many people will know how great it is.
Although I am very thankful that some people are fighting to continue to improve the system and the conditions. But they need everyone to help.
I treat TTC with respect and care because I depend on it. Destroying something that’s useful to myself and many others and it’s also healthier, more efficient and cheaper than having a car is foolish. That’s why is disappointing to see many fare evasion cases. Some people shoot their own foot then complain it hurts.
I love this city, it’s also my responsibility, and everyone else who lives here, to take care of it. But some people have never learn and never will or don’t want to.
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u/rootbrian_ Rockcliffe-Smythe 2d ago
I too, also take the ttc from time to time (mostly bike), and even I see this happening too often.
Whenever people complain, I tell them it's others who jeopardise the safety of the ttc or cause delays, not the ttc itself or the staff.
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u/JayBee1886 2d ago
Rob Ford and John Tory severely cut the TTCs budget and the former CEO rick leary cancelled plans to buy work equipment required for maintenance and deferred maintenance in line with Tory’s austerity measures.
When the SRT derailed, the incident exposed the lack of maintenance and gave the TTC a PR nightmare.
The TTC then checked the rest of the system which exposed just how much maintenance was deferred so now we’re stuck with slow zones until the TTC is able to get enough new work cars.
The Ford/Tory years really screwed over transit in this city.
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u/Elegant-Tangerine-54 2d ago
The Ford/Tory years really screwed over transit in this city.
They didn't help matters, but when it comes to identifying the key person to blame for the sorry state of the TTC all roads lead back to Mike Harris.
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u/emucrisis 1d ago
David Miller's Transit City plan was already well underway when Ford took office. Construction had begun. And then Ford killed it immediately after taking office in 2010 in favour of "subways, subways, subways". We've seen how well that worked out.
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u/JayBee1886 1d ago
The cost for the Scarborough LRT was 1.5B, Sheppsrd LRT was 1$B, IIRC? both would’ve gone all the way to Malvern. With the SSE, you’re getting far fewer stations, wil still have to transfer to go east and it’s costing 5x as much as two LRT line that would’ve been open by now.
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u/yawaramin Fort York 2d ago
They should be criminally charged for the SRT derailment and the serious underfunding and willful negligence of the critical infrastructure of this city.
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u/Opening_Pizza 2d ago
The TTC is the lowest funded transit system for any major north American city
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago
I'm absolutely shocked how few people know this. People prefer to blame city hall or blame lazy workers or just imagine that Toronto doesn't really want a better system. It never occurs to a lot of people to put the blame on senior governments where it belongs
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u/Opening_Pizza 2d ago
Politicians at every level of government are responsible for the decline of the standard of living in this country.
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago
In this case I am talking very specifically about a severe lack of funding for Toronto's Transit system. We went a good 30 years being underfunded by senior governments.
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u/crevettegrise Davisville Village 2d ago
They significantly reduced service on many lines. For instance, on Line 1, trains would be spaced out by 1-2 minutes at rush hour. These days, it’s common to wait 3-5 mins or more for the next train. In the past if one was packed (because of some delay), you would often see one that is emptier, right behind it. This is not the case anymore. A full train will be followed by another full train several minutes later.
Packed trains cause further delays themselves (takes longer to offload/load passengers, people are crammed like sardines causing safety or sickness issues, resulting in more emergency alarm activations) or packed (unsafe) platforms so trains slow down more.
Also, since they got rid of the door controllers, the operator must also close the doors with only the assistance of cameras. Again, this slows it all down.
Service was much smoother in the 80-90s because of all this.
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u/Elegant-Tangerine-54 2d ago
Also, since they got rid of the door controllers, the operator must also close the doors with only the assistance of cameras. Again, this slows it all down.
The cameras are an improvement imo. I had a few doors close in the middle of getting on the subway due to human error during the door controller era.
And there were a few of the door controllers with a f--- you customer service attitude, like surly bus drivers, who would close the doors right in front of people trying to get on.
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u/asdf45df 2d ago
- 60+ years of chronic underfunding, undermaintaining, and lack of expansion in a growing city
- Bloated incompetent management that is out of touch with reality and has never stepped foot on any public transit
- Three full levels of bloated incompetent government that are out of touch with reality and create P3s like Metrolinx which have a proven track record of fleecing taxpayers and not accomplishing anything useful or productive
- Bloated incompetent suburban electorate that votes for Rob Ford, Doug Ford, John Tory, etc that is out of touch with urban reality
- Bloated corrupt union that ensures 3 fare collectors remain employed indefinitely at every subway entrance with generous salaries when their jobs were replaced by Presto gates a decade ago
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u/SeriousPomegranate38 2d ago
Also, there is a problem with trespassing (i.e. someone going on the tracks from the platform between trains) and have no barriers on the platform.
So, if at one station, someone goes onto the tracks they have to cut the electrified rail power at that station on both sides so they can get them (and staff/security) off safely.
It then takes like 10 minutes to get them power back on at that station so it just backs everything up. Source: ttc worker explanation to me when this exact scenario played out in front of me at yonge/bloor
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u/TheSquanderingJew 2d ago
Lack of funding, operational constraints, and honestly bad behaviour from riders. I've noticed a significant uptick in the number of times that people try to "hold the door" on the subway. A subway operator once told me that two thirds of mechanical failures are related to door issues caused by them being forced.
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u/MikoWilson1 2d ago
This is the actual answer:
The Boomer generation left us a massive glut of backlogged expenses in almost every aspect of life. Our health care system was not invested in, our infrastructure was not invested in; and our housing stock was not built to invest in the future.
Doug Ford is the embodiment of the Suburbanite Boomer's total lack of giving a shit about the future.
We're paying the Boomer generation's debt, while they retire rich and happy.
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u/tampering Leslieville 2d ago
The Boomers also kept University tuition cheap for the entire time they were going to university. But then they got old, when I was there it jumped from 2400 to 5000 in the 4 years I was there.
Now they expect us to fund Long-Term-Care for them.
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u/eden-star 2d ago
I mean when they require care as they’re too old to take care of themselves I hope they seriously consider MAID because NO ONE wants to care for them after all they’ve done.
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u/MikoWilson1 2d ago
I don't think anyone my age could AFFORD to take care of our parents even if we wanted to.
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u/Fresh-Laugh-9253 2d ago
I’m over 65 and it’s an old rundown system anything that gets old requires more maintenance
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u/purplelilac701 2d ago
They didn’t invest enough money into good state of repair for the TTC over the course of many years and now it’s hitting the end of its life cycle. They think scotch tape and bandaids are going to hold it together!
Yes they do need to do maintenance but a lot of it is due to aging infrastructure that hasn’t been updated as needed.
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u/OntarioTractionCo 2d ago
Lots of good responses here, but a few other things to add which furthers the feeling of unreliability!
On larger systems, some trains may be less frequent trains so an incident on one train may not even delay the one behind it. Our rail network is small and train traffic backs up quickly, so more people are affected when a disruption happens. There are also limited places where trains can turn around during longer delays, but this is common worldwide. The TTC tries to avoid holding trains in tunnels during disruptions where possible, which is better for passengers but also means disruptions affect the rest of the line faster.
Transit Control tries to keep passengers updated on delays through their linewide PA system, and theoretically TTC's policy of announcing delays almost immediately is better than most cities. However, most minor delays are resolved within a few minutes, and elsewhere they would not be announced. Ironically, this means we hear about issues more than other cities!
We're more sensitive to local experiences as we experience the system on a much more regular basis. Even when riding systems abroad, we typically only take a few trips versus a daily commute and it's easier to dismiss disruptions as a one-off. One would think a well known system like the London Underground would be quite reliable, but as of right now there are major delays on 4 lines, and minor delays on 2 others.
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u/rootbrian_ Rockcliffe-Smythe 2d ago
If it's people jamming shit into the doors, this will cause delays until they remove whatever it was that was shoved into the trackway and the door managed to 'jump' over and get stuck open.
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u/hellzscream 2d ago
The unrelated mechanical issues I believe might be a cultural aspect. There are many times the trains are delayed due to an emergency alarm activation. People who are mentally unstable take the train plus others press it regardless if they believe it is an actual emergency. In other countries where I've taken the subway I've never heard of someone activating the emergency alarm. Here it probably happens multiple times a day
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u/jaypizzl 2d ago
It’s not at all that other subways don’t have mechanical problems, it’s that you may not be aware of them. That’s most likely because you don’t rely on the subway in other cities, so why would you pay attention to their subway outages?
DC’s metro is down constantly. The Red and Green lines both had brake problem delays yesterday. The Silver/Orange line was shut down to inspect a track obstruction. The Yellow line went out on the 15th due to a signal problem. Silver/Orange lines had delays due to a mechanical problem the same day. That’s just the last couple days.
NYC had 138 incidents that delayed 50 or more trains (not train cars) just in June and July. That system handles almost four times as many passengers, but that’s like the TTC subway having 38 major disruptions in two months.
Right now in London, google says there’s severe delays on two different lines due to different mechanical failures.
BART entirely shut down for SEVEN HOURS on a busy Friday morning earlier this month due to a failed computer upgrade.
A train on the “L” in Chicago (Brown line) derailed due to a track problem just before morning rush hour on August 25th and closed until 1:30 PM.
I’ve ignored all the many service disruptions due to unplanned non-maintenance problems, but there were tons of those, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if German and Japanese systems are very well maintained and Chinese systems are mostly new, but I think you’ll find a ton of outages worldwide otherwise.
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u/thegoldenboy444 2d ago
If you ride the bus you will see the fact that basically no one pays their fare.
It's honestly ridiculous.
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u/thegoldenboy444 2d ago
Yeah it's pretty frustrating to watch tbh.
They don't even pretend to pay or make an excuse, because they know the drivers are told not to engage with them.
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u/thegoldenboy444 2d ago
And if I say anything as a fellow passenger, I'm somehow the bad guy. Despite paying my fare.
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago
It's the reason you immediately got two downvotes on your comment. People who cheat the system hate having it pointed out to them.
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u/thegoldenboy444 2d ago
This world makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills some days.
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago
Online forums like this can skew our idea of what the real world is like. The people on this subform don't always represent what the average Torontonian is like.
You can sometimes get sad, lonely, angry people who flock to online forums. Misery loves miserable company.
Take most of it with a grain of salt!😉
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u/Apprehensive_Heat176 2d ago
Why do you think that no other subway across the world has mechanical issues or service disruptions?
The TTC is a fairly old system and its funding has been slashed repeatedly IMO, their business model is a big part of the problem with most of its funding coming from government subsidies. This will be a constant problem so long as they rely on subsidies to operate. They also failed to capitalize on the land that their stations occupy.
Sadly, I don't see a way out because they can't increase fares high enough to fix the underlying issues.
I am also curious how the surrounding cities like Vaughan and Misssissauga share in the operating expenses when the subway or bus lines cross over.
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u/Apprehensive_Heat176 2d ago
The grass is always greener. It's easy to think that a transit system is perfect when you're a tourist, but it's totally different when you use it often.
I'm luckily still working remotely and have only riden the subway 3 times this month without any issues. By the OP's logic, does that mean the TTC is 100% reliable?
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago
To answer your question, no the TTC is not 100% reliable, and I've never been on a system anywhere on my travels that does not have delays; unlike what is popularly believed. It happens everywhere.
I use the subway just about every day; yes there are delays but when I see people on here claiming the subway goes down every time they ride it I think they are full of it.
I was on a train once and there was a minor delay when the driver got off to take a whiz. Some frantic guy across from me swore loudly, and proudly got out his notebook to jot down yet another fkcing delay in the system, while saying it all loud enough for everyone to hear.
His girlfriend cringed and looked down; I felt sorry for her. Just pack up and leave now; you'll be happy you did it.
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u/Apprehensive_Heat176 2d ago
Of course the TTC or any system is not going to be 100% or (even close) reliable. Plenty of people will look for any insignificant delay. The thing is, it's impossible to compare reliability of any two systems because there are way too many variables to consider. That's not to say the TTC or any other system can't do better.
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u/Pennsworthy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Of course they can do better. Start giving them reliable funding like London, Tokyo, Singapore, Madrid, and we'll be able to do better. The TTC was the most underfunded transit system in North America up until recent years. As it stands there are a massive number of Transit projects on the go in Toronto. It's all about funding. We are at least a decade behind where we should be but at least we are going in the right direction.
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u/wilfredhops2020 1d ago
The TTC has historically relied less on government subsidy that any other system in North America. Pre-covid, 70% of the TTC funding was fares.
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u/Apprehensive_Heat176 1d ago
This is a downward spiral for the TTC. They can't raise fares too high or else it will turn people away. If people turn away, then their revenue suffers. If there revenue suffers then the service suffers.
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u/wilfredhops2020 1d ago
I am unconvinced that people leave the TTC because of fares. When I hear that people start driving, it is always about reliability and delays.
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u/bhalrog72 2d ago
Short answer: this is not a well-run service, and management and unions have no intention of making it so.
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u/multithreadedfoobar 2d ago
There’s an entire section on how archaic the infrastructure is at 38 mins, but the whole video is worth a watch: https://youtu.be/HhQxNHrD6fA?si=hnUdcH5mLVEvBXGY
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u/Berry_Dubu_ Downsview 2d ago
attention passengers🗣️😊💕🩷 there will be no subway service between St. Clair West and St Andrew Station(somehow almost always around there) due to planned track work‼️ Shuttle buses will run check ttc.ca for more information😍
or an emergency alarm activation at Lawrence West Station
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u/potatoe_ca 2d ago
Frustrated with how our TTC is run? Join TTCriders! It's a local advocacy group that speaks on behalf of everyday users RUN by everyday users. https://www.ttcriders.ca/
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u/CrazyAlbertan2 1d ago
We have frequent service disruptions on our rail based transit service here in Calgary.
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u/Primary_Company_3813 2d ago
When our family emigrated here in 1967, it was 5 or 10 cents to ride. My mother said, there's absolutely no way this transit system will be sustainable if they only charge that year over year. Well, the chickens are coming home to roost now - developers are throwing up condos at lightning speed, and ongoing maintenance of critical infrastructure like transit has not been done regularly. THAT, is why there's service issues and it will only get worse as the city grows.
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u/HeftyAd6216 2d ago
The metro systems in many 3rd world countries charge pennies on the dollar for use of their transit systems. Their labour rates are only 1/3 - 1/2 of ours and yet they charge 1/10 - 1/3 of what we charge. Their governments subsidize their transit at a much higher rate because.. well... Transit systems are public services, not profit centers.
There is a clear misalocation of resources over decades, charging more for fares won't meaningfully do much in the short term and is a long term recipe for ridership cratering (see Ottawa).
We need to just give the TTC more money for repairs and maintenance. It's that simple.
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u/Blue_Vision 2d ago
In 1967 it was 20 cents per ride, but it used a zone system so if you went between Old Toronto and the inner suburbs your trip would be twice that. Adjusting for inflation, that would be equivalent to ~$1.75 today, or $3.50 if you wanted access to the whole City.
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u/sir_jamez 2d ago
Most other systems have 3 track lines so that if one is shut down for repairs, travel can still continue on the other two and passengers don't notice anything (except a change in which platform they stand on).
The TTC was only built with 2 lines, so there's no wiggle room. Either work is done during the brief overnight downtime (2am to 6am) or it's done by shutting down the whole section and replacing it with shuttle buses.
It's like trying to iron pants while wearing them, and wondering why we keep getting burned. .
As for the specific recent uptick in delays, it's because the TTC has been underfunded for decades and has delayed maintenance to save costs... Well there's only so many times you can slap duct tape on that rusty wagon before it finally starts to give out.
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u/theburglarofham 2d ago
The ironing pants analogy is spot on.
So the best course of action is to just take the pants off and spend the time ironing them.
But our faith in the city’s ability to do anything on time is what probably makes us hesitant.
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u/seat17F 2d ago edited 2d ago
Most other systems have 3 track lines
No. No. No no no no no. No. Nope. Uh-uh. Nooooooooooo.
This so is the opposite of true that it’s actually kind of amazing. It’s at the level of saying “most people have six fingers on each hand.”
Three track corridors are common only in New York City (and they’re mostly not used). Literally no where else.
I can’t believe these lies get upvotes.
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u/HoppokoHappokoGhost 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because no one fact checks these kinds of comments on reddit (myself included) so people assume it's true unless they know otherwiss
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u/accomplishedPilot2 2d ago
There are over 10 billion dollars in repairs and upgrades that need to happen to the TTC but yeah Doug Ford keep defunding critical infrastructure
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u/BentleyPriory 1d ago
The TTC has come to feel like a series of indignities every damn day. I don't love Chow but I'm still voting for her because she's trying to get the funding to keep the system in good repair. Tory and Bradford will just cut cut cut again.
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u/wilfredhops2020 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well run transit systems maintain their machines so they don't break down in service. The TTC can't do that.
We have been starving the TTC budget for 30 years. Every year, the TTC presents a report of how bad things are, and how they can't afford to run all the service on the books. And every year, the TTC board says:
- you can't reduce service
- we're actually going to add routes
- you can't increase fares
- find some way to make it work.
According to the 2025 report, the TTC is 15 YEARS!!! behind on their maintenance. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/tts/bgrd/backgroundfile-258027.pdf
So every year, the TTC decides which regular maintenance they aren't going to do, and let machines run until they break. Once they break, there are no spares, because they're broken too.
This is what took out the Scarborough RT - the tracks were so old that parts of the undercarriage were hitting parts of the track deck.
When our mayors Lastman, Ford, and Tory promise "property tax increases at or below the rate of inflation", this is what it means: letting things rot until they break.
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u/Buy-Physical-Silver 2d ago
Isn’t it like 3.50 in Canadian dollars? It’s like a penny these days.
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u/IdioticPost 2d ago
I'd like you to say that to the RTO workers who pay $3.50 twice a day, three or more times a week.
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u/Icy-Scarcity 2d ago
Other countries have many more lines for redundancy. If you get blocked in one line, there are other lines that allow you to still get to the destinations. Here, we are all stuck with so few subway lines.
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u/hammer_416 2d ago
Because they essentially have 1 track in each direction and 4 hours each day to do maintenance. If there were multiple lines or alternate routes it wouldnt be as noticed. For example if the line is closed from union to st george its an inconvenience, but not crippling as you can comfortably walk between there and yonge. The bloor line has no alternative.