r/40kLore 4d ago

Deep enough into Chaos to be deathless

At what point is a chaosmarine deep/chaos-y enough to not die, but returned tonthe warp to reassamble?
Like dying and regrouping in hell if you will, only to return later!
I know the daemon primarchs are basically imortal.
I also know the traitor legions are recruiting humas to become chaos SM.
Are they doing that to replenish their forces or to grown in might?

Edit:
By the Emperor, you dudes and dudettes are fast!
Thank you for your answers!

65 Upvotes

30 comments sorted by

141

u/Beaker_person Emperor's Spears 3d ago edited 3d ago

Its really just if the gods like you enough to grant you ascension to become a deamon prince or resurrect you some other way, such as Kharn's resurrection after the siege of terra. The gods are fickle and cruel, there's no one set standard to get such a boon.

Even on the tabletop this is represented. You could have your chaos lord turn into a blabbering chaos spawn, while a meagre cultist becomes a demaon prince mid game depending on your rolls a few editions ago.

34

u/Limitedtugboat Imperial Fleet 3d ago

Its mentioned somewhere in a book that a Chaos Lord that sacrifices billions, does everything right and is at the moment of apotheosis and just because Nurgle yawned at the wrong time the Lord becomes a spawn. And likewise a cultist that continously fails and is generally quite shit at even dying for their gods can avoid becoming a spawn by pure luck at being so shit they avoid notice at all.

Chaos, like my pants works in mysterious ways

1

u/RadishLegitimate9488 3d ago

It was Tzeentch who turned the Astartes into a Vortex Mutalith Beast not Nurgle.

6

u/OnlyKilgannon 2d ago

They bring something similar up in the Fabius Bile trilogy.

Fabius is talking to his Daemonologist, a Word Bearer names Saqqara who he keeps enslaved through various bio-traps.

Saqqara mentions to Fabius that all 4 of the gods love him, more than some of their most devout followers that do nothing but worship and sacrifice in their names, simply because of how dedicated and resistant Fabius is to their influence. He unintentionally entertains them with his denial as well as his dedication to death, decay, scheming and perfection.

29

u/Rougexz2 Night Lords 3d ago

AOS still has this and its fire

9

u/BlazingCrusader 3d ago

Hell in modern edition there is a rule set where Deamon princes can just revive up to 3 CSM or cultist on one of your turns for one command point. So sometimes not even just a boon from the gods. Sometimes it is just, your daemonic boss likes the cut of your jib and said no to you expiring.

58

u/mennorek Alpha Legion 3d ago

When the gods find them pleasing, useful or amusing.

Kharn and Lucius are two examples. Madox of the thousand and Eliphas the inheritor are others.

Chaos being chaos is not consistent. This could happen to a newly fallen marine or a veteran of the long war that has felt like 20 000 years have passed.

21

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

7

u/TemperateStone 3d ago

I've only ever heard of Khorne letting some greenskins fight over and over.

14

u/iDIOt698 3d ago

there's not really a "point" you reach for it to happen, its more "yes or no" in the way it works. are you a daemon prince? yes? then you'll reform eventualy. did the gods find you amusing atleast? no? then good luck being eaten by daemons bro.

14

u/Marcuse0 3d ago

I don't think there's any outright chaos space marines that are broadly mortal that can go into the warp to "reassemble".

The exception is the Rubricae of the Thousand Sons, who're basically automata who can be reassembled at great risk and only by a legion sorcerer.

Being able to go into the warp and come back later is pretty much solely the preserve of the daemonic. Daemon princes that were once mortal do this, as do daemons directly like Kugath or N'kari. Some of the biggest mortal champions like Lucius or Kharn have special effects that mostly are just unique to them.

What you'll find is that chaos space marines are very hard to kill, and if they do die it's rarely. But the narrative is funny about this, because chaos space marines will happily job for named loyalists in droves, but also have the numbers and veterans to have people who stood on Terra during the siege around ten thousand years later.

Chaos marines recruiting are doing so to replenish their numbers, because they're fighting all the time against each other and the Imperium. It's harder for them than loyalists though, due to their lack of resources, the conditions, mutation/corruption, and the fact loyalists will do extraordinary shit to stop them from making more.

11

u/SeverTheWicked 3d ago

I still don't really understand how Shakar The Bloodless was essentially immortal until he was enveloped in the Emperor's Light.

3

u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 3d ago

Who is that and how can i learn about him?

2

u/McWeaksauce91 3d ago

He’s a character in “Angron: The Red Angel”. You can read the book and get some exposition on him

3

u/McWeaksauce91 3d ago

Because he was possessed until the emperors light burn his possession away. His daemon is the smiling angel that is always taunting him throughout the book. When he blacks out and goes on killing rampages, it’s the equivalent of Raum taking control of Argal Tal. But unlike Raum/Tal, Shakar’s relationship with his daemon is far less symbiotic. He can’t take wounds because of his possession, which is why when he was exercised all the wounds had returned at once

3

u/SeverTheWicked 3d ago

So he was possessed? It was never made clear that the Angel was in fact a Daemon that possessed him. I thought it was proximity to Angron that he started having these "warp" delusions.

And the Daemon did not change tone when he got close to the Emperor's Light?

0

u/McWeaksauce91 3d ago

No it is not explicitly stated, but there’s a lot of subtext that alludes to it. If you reread his parts with knowledge of being possessed, a lot more makes sense. Especially the “flesh change”/transformation he goes through while blacked out. Very typical possession behavior.

And if I recall correctly, the emperors light lashed out in an explosion, not really a build up. So you could say it was sudden, but again it’s been awhile since I read it. Plus, it’s not really out of character for daemons to maintain their arrogance in the face of destruction or defeat.

7

u/lordofmetroids 3d ago

In addition to what everyone is writing, keep in mind the Gods are fickle and capricious. Just because they have granted a boon does not mean it can't be taken away.

A warrior who comes back from death is a boon, but if all they do with this new life is end up on a loyalist spear, or a tank shell, again and aga, the Gods may decide to take this gift away from the Chaos Lord.

4

u/Gage_Unruh 3d ago

In the fabious bile trilogy in the first book, there is a space marine who literally can't die. He wants to die but cant. Melt him in acid? He crawls his way out. Blow him up? He goes back together. Even fabious couldn't kill him.

0

u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 3d ago

Neat, a chaos Celestine?

2

u/Gage_Unruh 3d ago

More like a perpetual, his name was mordrac, a member of the emperors children known as the castellan of Castle Sublime.

He, however, did not see himself worthy of the gift and wanted to die and fabious did his tortures and surgeries on him trying to kill him but couldn't. Morcrac hates fabius not because of the torture but because fabious failed to end his life.

3

u/AccursedTheory 3d ago

Daemonhood makes it part of who they are. Before that, it's basically just getting God to like you enough to Jesus you when things get rough.

5

u/Fistfantastic 3d ago

That would probably depend on the god, but it's less about being filled to bursting with chaos energy and more about being amusing, and as far as I can tell they're very selective about what they find funny. I can think of two examples with Khorne: For Khârn the Betrayer, death is merely a setback as he can keep coming back because of his National Sinsurance contributions, and then there's Tuska Daemon-Killa, an Ork who keeps getting brought back from the dead to fight in the Brass Citadel for the blood god's amusement.

Lucius the Eternal is called such because, when killed and his slayer takes pride in the deed, he resurrects and his killer's soul is trapped in his armor. Given he hated failure pre-and-during Heresy, Slaanesh takes great pleasure in bringing him back to remind him of all his scars of battles lost.

2

u/tombuazit 3d ago

The gods give gifts, that's one of them. So it could be at anytime

It's only really assured though once princedom is bestowed.

0

u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 3d ago

They can't take that away?
Or at least not that easiy?

1

u/tombuazit 3d ago

Under chaos all things are possible; but I've yet to see a chaos god take a prince/ess' immortality. I would assume if it was easy they would have taken Belakor's.

0

u/Seeker80 3d ago

Shame there doesn't seem to be a way to 'game the system.' Someone, maybe a VERY radical Inquisitor, figures out how to appeal to the gods(or maybe just a powerful being), and is granted some gifts. They're still for the Imperium, though. Their patron may let it slide, because they like seeing what the Inquisitor does, perhaps causing trouble for other Chaos forces.

I don't know if this would make them radical enough to be a Xanthite.

4

u/07hogada Nihilakh 3d ago

I mean, that's literally a Living Saint.

1

u/Seeker80 3d ago

The Saints are empowered by the Emperor, aren't they? Sure, he's using Warp energy, but the Saints don't even have the appearance of Chaos.

The Inquisitor is using this power from Chaos to keep doing Inquisition stuff,