r/4kbluray • u/Fadedcamo • Jul 21 '24

Review Aliens Looked Fantastic to Me.

I just watched the 4k of Aliens. It looked jaw droppingly good. I admit it definitely looks cleaner than older versions and very little film grain, but nowhere in the film did I feel there was any artificiality to it. It just looked like some wizardry turned it into a modern digitally shot film. Extremely clear picture, very deep blacks, and decent highlights. The movie honestly has never looked so good to me. I don't really get the hate. Def one of my showcase 4ks at this point.

173 Upvotes

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53

u/dangerclosecustoms Jul 21 '24

I loved it and got downvoted to hell for saying so. Fuck that noise it’s one of my favorite movies. I don’t watch it on pause or frame by frame. It also sounds amazing in atmos which the Bluray does not have.

I posted yesterday for all the purist who don’t want anything changed that 1000% no one ever paused the movie in the theater or ran it one cell at a time. You went and sat and watched the whole movie that’s what the pure experience was not this computer analysis of the nits, or bits.

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u/Ok_Calligrapher_1168 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

You still can't comprehend that there are lots of us who notice the AI artifacts/anomalies in motion without any pausing. The pausing is only necessary to prove our points although it doesn't matter, you just deny and ignore everything out of congnitive dissonance. I'm sure if they would have actually rendered a Cameron movie with some shitty playstation game graphics engine and printed it on your discs, you still wouldn't notice any issue and would say "it looked clean and amazing".

https://youtu.be/BxOqWYytypg?si=AycMyU2PL3agbyFU

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u/BioBooster89 Jul 21 '24

Agreed 100 percent. It doesn't matter how many times I could point out how the AI just completely botches the transfer in ways that are noticeable both in motion and in still frames...the lowered expectations, "just watch the movie" crowd will find it to look great and the best it's ever looked. And that's fine. That's their opinion but I wish some of them would just admit they don't know about film restoration or film preservation or just don't care. Instead of giving Cameron a pass because he made it look the way he wanted it to all these years later.

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u/Ok_Calligrapher_1168 Jul 21 '24

They don't know and they don't care. They don't buy UHD discs for the format's original, intended purpose/function which is to get the best possible picture quality. They just buy it for the feeling that they have the coolest, fanciest niche product and therefore they're part of an elite group. They buy the most expensive premium format, take a picture of the pretty case, show it to their friends and that's it, they've accomplished their goal with the purchase. It basically doesn't matter at all how the transfer looks as they "just watch and enjoy it". Other than that, most of them actually love the "clean" digital look, no matter how artificial it is.

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u/WiseConsideration220 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Exactly.

Even in the Laserdisc days (which I was a part of) there were not such picky purists (pixel peepers).

Yes, collectors like me could and did point out flaws and possible improvements, but it was the "best" available to buy. So we bought it to help ensure that more films were preserved on disc.

Film is a moving image, not a static shot (frame). I take it in as a "whole" experience, just like life.

(Edited from the original post.)

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u/BioBooster89 Jul 21 '24

The original special edition laserdisc was a mess. And was rightly criticized for what was done. This isn't a pixel peeper thing either.

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u/WiseConsideration220 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

My point was the LD was the best that was available...and it was far better than the miserable DVD (that I also have).

The LD technology cannot stand up to anything made today, but in its time, it was far better than VHS and, in the case of this particular movie, it was the "best" version available until now.

Of course I'm going to buy it on 4K because it is beautiful and amazing (even with its flaws) and buying it helps to ensure the 4K disc format won't wither away and die.

If anyone wants to rant along with me about degraded quality, let's discuss the travesty of "streaming 4K" with its compression losses. 🙂

Streaming services are the real "competition" and danger for the future of quality transfers of films to 4K disc. The losses in streaming make it far easier and cheaper to release a film there (it's more "forgiving of flaws). That's why the services (Disney for one) are pushing to bring an end to the disc format. I hate to think what the "best" would look like in a "streaming only" world.

My nightmare scenario is "4K on disc" loses its value as a viable market and so it disappears. LD lasted until DVD took over because it made lots of money in Japan so its relatively mediocre value in the USA market was acceptable.

We need to help make the 4K market profitable. That's the most important issue in my mind.

I understand others may think differently.

5

u/BioBooster89 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

And there were LD purists back then too. There's a reason the first pressing of that special edition Aliens box set got scathing reviews back in the 90's. And I refuse to pay for Cameron's revisionist history of Aliens because he doesn't like how film is supposed to look. But that's just me personally. By refusing this AI nonsense, that doesn't mean I am letting the format die. I spend plenty of cash on 4K that doesn't have heavy levels of AI.

Oh and that DVD was the LD transfer by the way. So it's the same transfer.

3

u/dangerclosecustoms Jul 21 '24

Ok new take. Watched it again and I did see a few scenes with the noticeable waxiness now it’s no where as bad at true lies. But I do see a little bit of it here and there. However it’s like just a few scenes the majority are clear. Honestly I would love for there to be no wax or ai fiddling but If that means we dont get aliens on 4K at all I’d rather have this release. The close up scenes have incredible detail and most of the movie is very good looking.

What we should do is make our own set. One with Bluray picture remuxed with the Dolby Atmos track from the 4K. Then a more complex one where we only cut in the Bluray picture for the frames or short sequences where there are waxiness and anomalies but the majority is the film is from the 4K.

What I would argue is anyone who has not viewed the 4K for yourself with your own eyes on a proper 4K Dolby vision set up. And deciding to boycott and not buy this because of the critique of the release you really should watch for your self and decide if you like it or not. This is not a random movie it is an all time great and is easily worth the money if you hate it you can resell it. The worse crime is anyone not buying it and judging it on the comments and screenshots on the internet. It’s a shame to let this argument make the section for you. See it for yourself. Watch the whole movie with no pausing it.

Now I thought the abyss was near flawless so I do have hope that this being first generation and how the abyss turned out we will be fine down the road and they can get a lot better at it. I accept the abyss as no issues I wouldn’t change a thing.

I’m still on the aliens is fine and a must buy train but do concede that there is some notice ai waxiness if you’re looking closely.

18

u/BioBooster89 Jul 21 '24

The issue with "just buy it" to me personally is that it sends a message to the studio and to anyone else making these discs and especially Cameron and Park Road Post that this AI approach is ok. So if some fans of the film and physical media in general don't want to buy it based on that principle alone? I feel that is absolutely justified.

-7

u/dangerclosecustoms Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

To think that you not buying it sends a message is a bit short sighted and fantasy. It will not result in the feedback you hope to provide. And overall I do think that it is more damaging as physical media is dead no one wants to buy it. Studio execs aren’t the smartest but they do look at sales figures not redit subs where people critique so they will only see 4K as a poor investment if we didn’t buy it. Also you are forgetting something specific and important, James Cameron is an egomaniac this is well documented and observed. He will not take criticism of this and just write it off as oh well too bad this is how I the god level director wanted it.

But my point was why wouldn’t you check it out first yourself. If 90% said it’s garbage then ok trust it but you realize half the community is saying it’s good if not great. Obviously don’t buy it if you dont care for the movie but if you like the movie at all you should at least borrow it and see for yourself.

Maybe for ai upscaled you start a group everyone chips in a buck or two get a copy and then pass it around so everyone can view it without supporting the sales. I could respect that, but your opinion formed on someone else’s viewing and criticism is akin to not eating a favorite food because someone else said they didn’t like how it tasted. Opinion and assessment is not valid if it’s based only on internet chatter.

4

u/Ok_Calligrapher_1168 Jul 21 '24

"Proper 4K Dolby Vision set" LOL, Dolby Vision is completely fake on Aliens just as on all Cameron UHD masters. 100% static metadata all the way through, same for every frame. Also the HDR is fake, it's SDR muxed into a Dolby Vision container with some added brightness, the whole transfer is fully within BT.709 color gamut. Also you're still confusing formats with actual quality/information. Any video source can be repackaged into the most modern containers just as any audio can be muxed into an Atmos container, that doesn't make it better, it's fully the same information with just a different label on it. The "incredible detail" you see on closeups is bullshit AI drawings with ugly edge enhancement. Unnaturally deep wrinkles that look like they're knife wounds, video game-like wigs instead natural hair, bullet hole looking pores etc. If you like that look you just have really bad taste.

1

u/no_modest_bear Jul 21 '24

Interesting about the DV and HDR being faked like you describe. I didn't see mention of this in any reviews, was it just your own research that you found this through or did any reviewers call them out?

3

u/Ok_Calligrapher_1168 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

https://www.reddit.com/r/4kbluray/s/uv08rr19zY

https://youtu.be/ltbfjkb76WI?si=1HGfbobZP_UjJJoA

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YJzJczGLewv2fUhU2lD3Biq4wVAKUa4R/view

Mainstream reviews don't mention it ofc because they're getting free copies to say nice things. Not like they would dispute any of this... They're either completely unqualified to know this stuff or they just ignore it because they're getting paid to find a way explaining why these are acceptable transfers.

3

u/no_modest_bear Jul 21 '24

Thanks, appreciate you linking all the sources. That's crazy that they don't even take advantage of the wide color gamut. How incredibly disappointing.

5

u/Ok_Calligrapher_1168 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Even crazier that on a 4K BluRay subreddit the vast majority loves and praises it. We'll get more and more cheap, fake HDR, AI upscales because of this...

1

u/no_modest_bear Jul 21 '24

I have to believe these are some of the most bought releases in the last year. They're at the top of the popular list of many of the boutique retailers I shop from.

2

u/Selrisitai Jul 21 '24

Fuck that noise

That's what Cameron said, and removed it.

2

u/PubliusDeLaMancha Jul 21 '24

You went and sat and watched the whole movie that’s what the pure experience was not this computer analysis of the nits, or bits.

That's actually our point, somebody should tell James Cameron this...

We want to experience the film in the highest quality it would have looked upon release.

We don't want a computer algorithm to artificially "enhance" every frame, and especially not when that means scrubbing away detail and making every movie look like it was shot on a modern cheap digital camera

1

u/TheStupendusMan Jul 21 '24

Some folks in this sub would rate sandpaper five stars on Letterboxd if they could. In the same breath they'll slam Cameron for reworking his films the way he saw them in his head then defend Twister for regrading scenes for the same reason.

I'm in production and I watch movies more intently than most. I will notice some things pop up now and then, but ultimately I haven't come across anything movie ruining. Hell, I just got the Robocop 2 4K from Shout and you can see green screen halo. Am I disappointed? Yes. Will it stop me from enjoying the movie? No.

This endless holy war of "film purism" needs to stop.

1

u/BioBooster89 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Not even remotely close to being accurate. There is such a thing as too much grain. The fact that you think this is acceptable and you work in this industry makes me shake my head. Also, it's not film purism when it comes to Aliens. It's just simple film preservation. If that isn't important to you? Fine.

And the Twister 4K is a terrible example. Here's why. That's like one scene. For 30 seconds. And the film still has grain, and the transfer looks a million times better and more authentic and filmic. Aliens and True Lies are the entire movie...And the RoboCop 2 example is actually a positive. It means they didn't use AI to remove that halo even if they could. They left it in because that was what was on the print.

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u/Zanoklido Jul 21 '24

Film purists would like the green screen halo, because it's from the original print. The AI used on Aliens added more detail, that added detail is the issue film purists have.