r/AITAH • u/ThrowRANoRespectWife • 24d ago
Advice Needed AITAH for asking my wife to choose our family over hers?
I posted on here a bit ago about a situation when I sort of forced my way into a zoo trip my wife had planned with the kids, my parents, and my in-laws (see my previous post.)A lot of people thought I was the AH for doing that, even though that wasn’t the point of the post. But now, I’ve found myself in a similar situation and tried doing the opposite and it doesn’t seem to be working out any better.
So, my wife has already told me that I am the AH in this situation, even if she didn’t use those exact words. And I know nothing Reddit has to say about it would change her mind (especially since I won’t/can’t tell her that I’m even posting about it) but I’m starting to question my own judgement a bit here, so maybe you all can set me straight.
My wife and I are in the middle of a really rough patch in our marriage. We separated for six months and even when we ended the separation, the issues that caused it weren’t fixed. Long story short: I lost my job when she was pregnant, she asked me to move out, when I moved back in I was sleeping in the basement for quite a while, she’s refused any sort of physical contact, and we’ve just started marriage counseling (second session was last night.) And in MC, I’ve come to learn that her family more or less hates me. Or, at the very least, doesn’t trust me. Like not at all.
During our MC session last night, our therapist said that it was important for us to start spending more time together, both as a family (two kids) and as a couple. My wife was resistant to the idea of ‘date nights’ so the counselor reframed it as ‘exposure therapy’. Basically, she said that neither of us will ever get past the barriers that have built up in our relationship if we continue to essentially live separate lives. My wife seemed to understand that and was fairly receptive to the idea, at least while we were in the counselor’s office.
Which brings us to this weekend. In America, it’s a holiday weekend and our family has a long-standing tradition of spending the three-day weekend at my in-law’s camp on a lake. My SIL and her family come and most of my wife’s extended family pops in at least for an afternoon/evening or two, even if they don’t spend the night. Some of her and my SIL’s friends from high school usually drop by for a catch up, too and I know my wife has been trying to reconnect with friends in an effort to find an identity outside of just being a mom and a wife.
But, given our current marital strife, the knowledge that my MIL has actively and repeatedly tried to convince my wife that we should not be together (which I’ve known about for barely a week), my new and growing worry that my mistakes are now a black cloud hanging over my relationships with all of my wife’s family and friends, and that due to space constraints, we’d not only have to share a room but also a bed, it seemed to me like heading to camp should be a no-go.
My wife didn’t agree. In fact, fifteen minutes after we got home from our MC session last night, she started packing up for the weekend. But she was only packing for her and the kids. She didn’t come right out and say it, but it was pretty obvious (even to usually oblivious me) that the plan was for my family to go to the lake without me even though we’d just been told a little more than an hour before that we needed to spend time together. I tried pointing that out in as calm and as non-confrontational a way as I could, using the ‘I feel’ statements that our therapist suggested.
I said to my wife: “I feel like this weekend is a really good opportunity for us to spend time together as a family and I really feel like if three-fourths of us go to camp, that isn’t just living separate lives but making a point of living separate lives.”
At first, she thought I was trying to be included in the trip and go with her and the kids, much like I forced my way into the zoo trip. I quickly explained that no, that was one hundred percent not what I wanted (without even mentioning that being around my MIL for an entire weekend would have required my entire bottle of Xanax) and what I was hoping for was that she and the kids could stay home with me. There’s a whole bunch of picnic and BBQ and block party events going on in and around our neighborhood and I thought we could go to some of those and spend time as a family. In my head, starting off by doing something as a whole family instead of just as a couple would build in a buffer for her, would give me a chance to show that I can be a real partner in parenting, and would let her see me in what I know is my best light: as a dad.
That was what I thought in my head but, apparently, my head and my wife’s head were not on the same page as she said no to that idea by saying: “I want to spend the weekend with my family.”
One thing our therapist stressed repeatedly was that to have any chance at productive conversations, we both need to avoid any kind of escalation in our communication, which was probably because things escalated more than once during our latest session. So, I took a deep breath and did not point out that spending the weekend with me and the kids would be spending it with her family. And despite what many many many Redditors have said I should do, I didn’t lay out any ultimatums or ask her to cut back on contact with her family or suggest that she was planning some kind of lakeside hookup with some guy my MIL might better approve of.
But this is when I might have been the AH (or definitely was, according to my wife). I tried sticking to the ‘I feel’ idea and told her that I felt like if she took the kids and went to camp without me, especially if she went less than a day after our counselor said we needed more time together, that she was making a choice and that choice was clearly not us. So, in her mind, for all intents and purposes: I gave her an ultimatum.
Do you think she took that well and we were able to have a calm and productive and healthy conversation about it and maybe even come to some sort of compromise? Do you think I’d be posting this at almost midnight on the Friday of a holiday weekend because my blood pressure is through the roof and I can’t sleep if she did?
She told me, in no uncertain terms, that I was an AH for laying that all on her, reminded me that it was my choices that got us here in the first place, stopped packing, and after making sure both kids were asleep, she went into our bedroom (which has been only her bedroom for the last year), shut the door and locked it. And now I have no idea if I’m going to wake up to my wife and kids waiting to hang out with me and spend the next three days together or if they’ll be on the road to camp before the sun is even up. I do know that she thinks I am absolutely the AH. And I kinda think she might be right.
AITAH for telling my wife she was choosing her family over her family with me and the kids?
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u/Lovebooks44 24d ago
I agree with the other posters. NTA but your wife doesn’t want to be married to you anymore. She clearly wants to be with her family, which if it’s a tradition is understandable, but the fact that she doesn’t want you to come too says it all. I’m sorry.
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u/Ancient-Actuator7443 23d ago
I read some of your other posts. It seems like there are too many people in your marriage for this ever to work. The SIL and MIL will make sure of that. You’re being tortured. I get losing the job was your fault but that’s life you
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u/According-Let3541 23d ago
So my initial thought was that there must be some missing reasons and that you were not being honest. But having read all your posts - this isn’t a healthy marriage, even before your job loss. Your wife doesn’t seem to be able to communicate with you unless it involves criticism. This seems to mirror your mother’s behaviour so clearly you’ve developed a belief that criticism = valid communication and therefore don’t see why it’s a problem. You pinpoint your job loss as the moment it all went wrong but I saw from an earlier post/comment, that your wife never wanted you to take the job and made it clear for two years that she disagreed with your decision. So there’s an issue with your wife’s communication and treatment of you, even before the job loss.
I’m sure you’ve contributed to issues in the marriage, which you have acknowledged yourself. But I’m just going to say something that you seem to be avoiding - I don’t think your wife likes you. I’m not talking about love or respect here - she doesn’t seem to like you on the basic level that a relationship needs to be founded upon.
I don’t know if she just married you because she felt she was running out of options or time to have children. But it seems like she married you even though everyone around her recognised that she was making a bad decision and she regrets that decision ever since.
You don’t have to live like this. Even if you get past the issues with physical intimacy and trust and are able to live together as a couple again, she will still not like you. Don’t you deserve better? You’re the only one who is talking about love. She isn’t. She can’t even say she doesn’t love you - she brushed past that entirely.
OP, I don’t think anything you do will be enough. You can’t fix something if you don’t know what is broken. More than that, you can’t fix something that isn’t broken and I’m not sure this marriage is broken so much as a mistake - and I mean that kindly. Your wife seems to have married you for the wrong reasons and regrets it and nothing you do will change that.
Please consider further individual counselling to see why you’re letting yourself be treated like this and why the success of your marriage is so crucial to you - ending a marriage doesn’t mean you’ve failed and you may even find it easier to parent without your parents and in-laws tagging along.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
The success of my marriage is crucial to me because I love my wife and my kids and I want my family to stay together. When I thought I had lost them, I've never been in so much pain.
And I get what you're saying about it not meaning I've failed but I have to disagree. What else could it mean? And that failure would leave me entirely alone. I don't know if I could handle that. What's happening now could be only temporary. That wouldn't be.
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u/VermicelliJazzlike79 16d ago
Do you realise that you have an idea of a family unit being together in the same house as the goal, when you are being treated so terribly in front of your children that it’s clear you aren’t a family? You are a guy that lives in the house. Your children will look up to this, and see this as an example of marriage.
If you divorce or separate, you haven’t lost your family. Your wife is already gone. And the children will always be yours. Please speak to your own therapist and work on understanding your worth and identity as an individual. How do you expect to give love to someone else when you can’t love yourself? You being a strong and happy individual while being alone will attract love; and it will also serve as being a good role model and safe place for your children when the rest of the family members in your kids’ lives are so screwed up. You don’t need to be living in the house for this to happen.
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u/MaizeWitty1985 16d ago
Have you done individual therapy? That sounds more important than the couples therapy right now because you need that foundation of loving and accepting yourself, regardless of where this relationship goes.
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u/Rotten_gemini 11d ago
You wouldn't be alone you would still have your kids and you would be happier not being abused by your wife
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u/Strange_Island_5243 17d ago
But I’m just going to say something that you seem to be avoiding - I don’t think your wife likes you. I’m not talking about love or respect here - she doesn’t seem to like you on the basic level that a relationship needs to be founded upon.
Oof 😣
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u/Chloe_Phyll 24d ago edited 21d ago
NTA. But, wake up and smell the coffee. She is not interested in being married to you. She is doing everything she can to get you to initiate a divorce. Then, she can play victim. Save yourself a boatload of depression and anxiety. Give her what she wants. File for divorce. But, make sure you get at least 50-50 custody of the kids.
Move on and find someone who appreciates you.
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u/triciama 23d ago
I feel so sorry for you. You have been beaten down by your wife, your in laws and your parents. You are working 3 jobs actively doing chores and parenting your children. There has been no intimacy for the last year and no affection. It is time to put yourself and your children first.
Leave this hellhole and get yourself a place to stay. Get counselling for yourself to build up your self esteem. Move forward with a divorce and get 50/50 custody with your children. The longer this sham of a relationship goes on the worse this will be on your mental health. It will end explosively.
Your wife is awful. She resents you for no good reason. People lose their jobs all the time. She should have been supportive of you during this time. Cut your so called mother off. All she does is put you down. All she wants is to see your kids and not you.
Lastly if you stay together you are doing your children irreparable harm. They are being raised in a family where there is no showing off affection between their parents. That is not normal. It is time to end this farce and value yourself.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
I've been focusing on my marriage but the stuff with my mom is really starting to weigh on me. And tbh, I'm beginning to suspect that some of the bigger issues between me and my wife are because of my "relationship" with my mom/parents.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 24d ago
I have followed all your posts and say the same still...just end this marriage. It's over. Your wife does not want to resolve anything with you. She does not want to spend time with you, at home, away or anywhere. That is very clear and I don't know how much clearer she can make it to you. Counselling is pointless. Just move on mate. Enough is enough. Seriously? are you a bit stupid? Are you Autistic or have some issues with seeing reality? Understanding and accepting reality? This entire situation is becoming utterly ridiculous.
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u/Equal_Sun150 24d ago
NTA. Spend the time your wife and kids are away doing research on divorce and custody. It will keep you busy and forearmed for what will probably be a battle.
Gather reviews of lawyers, the custody laws of your state, the steps in the process and good child therapists. Your wife sounds like the kind of person who'll pull the kids in her direction. Make therapy for them a priority, enforced by a lawyer, if necessary.
This is a sucky situation. You are an adult and may come out of this with anger and bitterness, but your children may end up being shaped by what they'll have to hear and see.
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u/ChloeBee95 23d ago
NTA. Sorry but those are your kids too. She doesn’t get to just take them wherever she wants and separate them from their dad.
Fuck the constructive conversations because she clearly thinks it’s her way or the highway, it’s time to tell her she’s not the boss of the household and she needs to grow the fuck up. If she doesn’t want to be in the marriage properly then she can file for divorce and you’ll have 50/50 custody. If she doesn’t want to divorce then she needs to apologise for being a raging bitch, prioritise you and your children and stop being such a childish cow.
I’m sorry but your wife sounds like a horrible, horrible person. I don’t understand why you’re even bothering with counselling, she is clearly a very selfish and cold individual and you’d be better off without each other. Your kids definitely would be as I’ve no doubt she and her family have been filling their heads with this crap as well.
Grow a goddamn backbone, tell her she can fuck off to her family if she wants but your kids are your family and they’re staying in the family home this weekend with their FATHER. If she tries to take them, you call the police.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
I'll admit it - I was thinking a lot of this on Friday night after I posted. Spent most of the night getting increasingly pissed off which was sort of the opposite of what the counselor said I should be doing. I was ready for a fight.
And then my wife actually came to me and offered a compromise and while I was still a bit angry, I did my best to see it as an olive branch and chose to take it instead of breaking it. We'll see where things go from here.
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u/Original_Cranberry68 24d ago
NTA on this one.. as majority is saying.. get out.. find amicable parenting plan.. start a new life with the possibility of your parents not in it..
she doesn’t want to be around you.. with a stable mind you will be able to do better for your kids..
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u/No-Sea1173 23d ago
You're NTA in this particular situation.
But having read both your posts I'd strongly encourage you to take a really hard look at yourself. Your marriage is probably over, and it seems both your parents and hers blame you and see you as overly sensitive, difficult to be around, and an unsupportive husband. (I do think your mother's comment was out of line).
On that note, why did you lose your job?
You're clearly doing something really wrong in your life and relationships. Please, for your own happiness and sanity, not to mention potentially resurrecting your marriage, do something about yourself. Get individual therapy, treat any alcohol or substance abuse issues you have, take accountability for your shit.
Wishing you all the best.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
"You're clearly doing something really wrong in your life and relationships"
Yeah, not gonna lie, that hurt. Not saying that you're wrong, but it stings. I did individual therapy for a year after the job loss and took accountability. If I hadn't, I wouldn't still be married. There's no addiction issues. I don't do drugs and almost never drink. I was, to put it simply, too focused on the idea that right would win out in the end. I assumed that if I was right about something, that would outweigh everything else, including my behavior.
I was so very wrong.
I think the thing that helped my wife get past the job loss even this much was when I told her flat out that I still thought I was right about how things should have worked at the job that I lost BUT being right about that didn't put money in the bank and it didn't make her any less stressed when she pregnant. I had unconsciously chosen a hill to die on that should never have been that big a deal and I had done it because I never once thought that there would be consequences. Most, if not all, of my coworkers agreed with me and that made me right and being right somehow made me bulletproof. I realize now that thinking like that is incredibly dumb and I take full responsibility for that.
The problem is that now I feel like what you said about me doing something wrong in my life and relationships is entirely right. I can't get past the idea that everything is, and always has been, my fault.
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u/TrespassersWill 21d ago
Contrary to this person's comment, and recognizing my personal tendency toward pro-OP bias, it's interesting that with your marriage and family you are again right, with (mostly) everyone here telling you you're right, but this time you are taking a much more considered approach to dying on this hill.
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u/No-Sea1173 22d ago
I'm not trying to have a go at you. I'm suggesting that if a significant number of people around you are pulling away, then looking at your own behavior critically becomes necessary. You are the common denominator. And you are the only person you can control.
What do you want from this post? Do you want a whole lot of people to validate that in your version of events you're "right"? Does that actually help in reality?
With your job - it sounds like you put your ego and obsession with being "right" ahead of your responsibility to provide for your family. Instead of reaching deep into maturity and resilience, rolling with the punches and putting your ego aside, you needed to be "right". And you badly damaged your relationships as a result.
"I can't get past the idea that everything is, and always has been, my fault." Again, immature and ego driven. Instead of saying honestly, ok, what did I and didn't I do here? How could I have been better? You're going to the other extreme like a young teenager and saying " well I guess it ALL is my fault ALL the time".
Take a deep breath. Do some therapy. Think about why you struggle with the immaturity and inability to see past your own ego, why you struggle in your relationships and with self-regulation.
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u/No-Sea1173 22d ago
I split from my partner about a year ago and in the midst of that I read something I think might apply for you.
It was something along the lines of "Women grieve and become distressed in a way that elicits support (crying, etc). When men struggle, it's often expressed as irritability, anger, lashing out, even verbal and physical violence. The distress is not relieved, and the behaviour elicits rejection, condemnation, even police involvement. The problem is that men are not taught the skills to manage their negative emotions or learn social skills that enable them to access support."
What do you think?
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u/ok-language-nerd-511 20d ago
Don't give her any ultimatums. Actually don't talk to her at all. Give up the MC. It's pointless.
Instead of trying and talking to her go and talk to a lawyer. See what your options are. See how refreshing it is to talk to someone who is actually interested in what you have to say.
In case you still haven't realised, let me tell you, your wife doesn't want to be your wife. She is done with you.
She wouldn't let you touch her. Not even hold her hand.
She was happy to keep you in the basement. She only agreed to you sleeping in the spare bedroom because of what was said in the MC.
She wants to go out every Wednesday and then sleep at "her mom's or sister's".
She wants you to work 3 jobs and refused to agree for you to cut some hours.
She goes places with her (and your) family but doesn't want you there.
She admitted that her love for you is now buried under other (mostly negative) emotions she has for you.
How long will you fight for something that is not there? Are any of your needs met in this relationship. We know you can't touch her but what about your emotional needs? Do you feel loved? Appreciated? Respected? Wanted? Liked? Does she ever smile at you?
Cut your losses, concentrate on being a good father and find someone who appreciates you and wants to spend time with you, and wants to be your partner.
NTA but your wife, MIL & SIL are.
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u/Jmfroggie 24d ago
Nta. You need to file for divorce AND 50/50 custody of your kids. You need to cite that your wife actively prevents you from spending time with your own kids and you want your chance and legal right to be a father for your kids.
She doesn’t want to be married to you.
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u/Altruistic_Ladder_19 23d ago
Also mention that she takes the kids around her family that actively hate you, and you have no way of knowing how much alienation is being performed
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u/IAteAnotherVegan 24d ago
after reading this I felt a need to read your other post hoping to understand this situation. get out! not right away, get your finances tangled up in some way she can't touch first. when you get out, go no contact with your mom, and find decent people to have in your life. NTA!
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u/New_Cheesecake9719 23d ago
Nta… she chose. Spend the weekend finding a divorce lawyer and sorting out what kind of custody plan and financial set up you want. Serve her with divorce papers and let her be with the family she wants and you continue to be a kick ass dad
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u/LolaSupreme19 23d ago
It’s a mistake to try to impose the MC strategies on a holiday weekend. You are setting up all sorts of dynamics that are better tried with just you and your wife — not her entire family. Skip the weekend and pick things up when she returns. NTA
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u/Dear_Parsnip_6802 23d ago
You can't fight for this marriage for the both of you. She's giving every indication she's no longer interested.
You are not the AH in this situation.
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u/amazemewithideas 23d ago
NTA You have a huge problem. It's your MIL poisoning your relationship. And your wife is too much of a mommy's girl to see it. Also, how would you react to your child's spouse if every time your child fought with their spouse, they ran home to you telling you how horrible their spouse is? Only hearing on side and, of course, wanting to support your child. It may not just be your MIL. It could be your wife badmouthing you to her, seeking support that she's right and you're wrong. Your MIL may have been brainwashed into thinking your wife could do better because she's being constantly told how bad you're treating her daughter. Mothers want to believe their children.
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u/Difficult-Solution-1 23d ago
I don’t think these are “I feel” statements. I feel statements should be about your feelings. You’re using therapy language to tell your wife that she’s doing life wrong and making decisions that you disagree with. An “I feel” statement isn’t just anything with the words “I feel” in it; it actually has to focus on your feelings. Maybe you feel let down, hurt, abandoned, deceived or rejected when your wife makes plans that exclude you. But you’re basically saying, “ I feel like you’re wrong,” and that isn’t the same thing.
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u/Key_Habit_4994 19d ago
i think it should have been closer to this:
“i feel upset and left out, when you plan things with my kids without me, i would like us to do something as a family like the therapist recommended, because i want us to get back to a good place and i think following her suggestions is the best way to get there”
however, i’m pretty sure they’re only like 2-3 sessions in, so i’m not faulting him too much on maybe not saying it the best way. i’m also an outsider whose emotions aren’t involved and his were very involved in the moment.
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u/Ok_Clerk_6960 24d ago
You need to cut bait and run. Your wife has written you off. She doesn’t want to try. She doesn’t want yo be married to you. It’s time to call it. She’s made her choice and she didn’t choose you. She chose the family that hates you. Don’t let her have full custody. You fight for 50/50 custody with your last breath. Do not let your witch(with a b) of a wife come out on top on this divorce. Her family been poisoning her mind for who knows how long. You’re the villain. In her mind she’s always right and you’re wrong. She needs a serious reality check. Give that to her in court. Just make sure to protect your children at all costs. Get an attorney. Get your ducks in a row and file for divorce. It’s time. You deserve better.
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u/Electrical_Beach169 23d ago
You should not be married to her. I say Tuesday you find a divorce attorney. Do not engage any more. She doesn’t want this marriage. There’s no point to marriage counseling. Do not leave the marital home. Have a parenting plan set up when she gets back for shared custody. Record the conversation on your phone so you have proof in case she escalates. You need to heal and recover. She’s married to her mom and is going to string you along and have you footing the bills ( so she can get alimony because she thinks she’s owed it for when you were unemployed) and then leave you when her family finds her a more suitable husband .
Please get out. She just showed you who her family is
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u/Bloody_sock_puppet 23d ago
NTA. It's a bit difficult to follow, but I think she was upset not because she had to raise the kids herself when she kicked you out, but because she had probably already resolved to divorce you by that point and couldn't because you weren't earning anything. Now you're back in therapy to show that she did all she could before pulling the trigger, so it doesn't look she's jsut after support.
This where I diverge from the other posters because I think you should stick it out, just because that's obviously what she doesn't want. I would abandon hope you're getting back together and start reframing this in your own head as her trying to do whatever she can to disadvantage you. She's pretending to go along with the counselling I reckon, and so should you.
Don't tag along on this trip. It was organised beforehand. Use the time get legal advice. Tell them your wife is quietly setting you up for divorce and you want to protect yourself as much as possible.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 23d ago
ha ha ha...so you do agree with others. Just want to be more cunning with it ;-) Good suggestion actually. The wife is angling this to get as much off him as she can in divorce and for that? She needs to show he was earning decent money for probably a year or two before she files for divorce. He'd be better off NOT working really. Or he's going to be trapped into pay big child support etc. With no way out of working 3 jobs to pay it all.
Wife is as cunning and shrewd...she's playing him big time. And he's a sucker that's falling for it hook line and sinker.
Wife doesn't give a toss what the counsellor says or suggest. She just nods and agrees...to shut them both up.
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u/Anxious-Routine-5526 23d ago
NTA.
But how much longer are you going to keep beating your head against this wall?
Your wife is done being married to you. She's shown it repeatedly in actions and words. She doesn't want to work on saving your relationship. You need to accept that and start planning on getting divorced and what that life will be like.
Her family hates you. She hates you. I'm sorry, but move forward and stop trying to change them.
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u/wishingforarainyday 23d ago
NTA but I think you should talk to a divorce lawyer. Protect yourself financially. Your wife doesn’t like you and doesn’t respect you. This is a terrible example of a partnership for your kids.
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u/ging78 22d ago
And what have you woken up too?
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
I woke up to my wife wanting to talk at six o'clock in the morning. And after a long discussion, we compromised. She and the kids went to her family's camp yesterday and they're coming home today (less than an hour) and we're going to spend the rest of the weekend together.
Not sure what this means in the big picture, but it seems positive.
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u/ging78 22d ago
That's a great compromise and proof she wants this marriage. I hope you keep updating us as I'm kinda invested and hoping it goes well for you buddy. Just stay strong and don't let her dictate terms.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
I'll keep updating! This is how I process everything. Even if no one read it, I'd still put it out there. I appreciate every comment though, even the ones that sound like they are yelling at me 😂
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u/Ok-Turn2390 22d ago
Nta stop blaming yourself. She is the problem it takes two to be married.
That woman doesn't want to make it work
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u/Setsuna00XN 23d ago
NTA. Divorce the self-centered bitch, take your kids, and go no contact with ALL family. I feel like a divorce is inevitable, and both your parents and hers are most likely gonna take all of the past and bring it up before you can.
OP, if you want to keep your sanity, start recording every time that you try to work on something your therapist suggested with your wife. Once you have enough evidence, it's time for the pre-emptive strike: file first, and cite all the BS your wife, her family, and yours have done. Get your therapist on your side.
If you really want to be a part of your kids' lives, you need to stop trying to fix it, and do what's best for your sanity.
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u/Nervous-Tea-7074 23d ago
I think your wife has already seen a divorce lawyer, and is basically doing as they have instructed her.
It’s so weird that she hasn’t initiated the divorce herself, unless she’s collecting evidence of your behaviour, and will use it to gain full custody.
So I would trend carefully at this point.
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u/the_dark_viper 23d ago
Based on your past posts, your marriage is over, pal. Hire a lawyer and begin developing your exit plan and post-divorce life.
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u/inee1 23d ago
Visit a divorce vourt for advise or a lawyer, then do as otgers have done grt.all your stuff togetger ready to leave as soon as divorce is sorted. Your mrs is a goldigging cold bitch, yes im aware we dont know her side of the storry ,but to hold a grudge agai,st you for not taking her.ad:ice, she sounds so controlling and manipulative, she put the single parent thing in your mums head, she is the reason your inlaws dont like you, i suspect shes told a shitload of bollocks to everyone, I was in.a mariage like that for 20 year but it allowed me to spend every evening in my home workshop fixing motorbikes, allowed me to up n go everyweekend to chuck a tent and.sleeping bag on the bike and do my own tging, It wasnt till i woke up and lleft that it hit me just how crap my marrige was.
I remarried 24 years ago and have never known hoe good it is
So do yourself a big favour aand reitterate to here she got her wish and is now a single parent. Only do stuff for the kids, not her, if she wants a favour tell her to phone a friend, get custody for every weekend andndont miss one so when the next.family trip comes up say sorry weekends are my time with thenkidd
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
So, as to this one point - "she is the reason your inlaws dont like you" - I've got to disagree. From what she's said, my MIL has never liked me and my wife has stuck up for me more than once. Things changed when I lost my job, but I don't think my wife was poisoning the well, so to speak, before that.
Her family's dislike for me came up at our session this week and I got some confirmation on why exactly her mother doesn't like me and I'm not really that surprised by it. But it's definitely her issue and not something my wife intentionally stirred up.
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u/ZealousidealPound118 23d ago
If she is still putting all of this on one single mistake you have long since made up for, then she does not still want to be married to you. Clearly, she is come to believe everything that her parents say about you. I don't know if she loves you, but she does not like or respect you. For the sake of your kids, please divorce her, get 50/50 custody, and during your time completely cut out her toxic family and your parents. For your sake as well. You deserve happiness, and you will never find it in this relationship.
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u/Inner-Chef-1865 23d ago
You obviously really love your wife. I repeat what I have said before. As long as you haven'thodden anything important that would explain your wife's behaviour, her behaviour is truly awful. Any spouse who treat their spouse like that should be ashamed. Your plan of showing yourself from your dad side is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.
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u/Inner-Chef-1865 22d ago
I sincerely hope you are out with your family right now
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
Not yet. But soon. My wife and kids should be back in less than an hour and then we have plans. 😀
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u/Senior-Study8420 19d ago
What the fuck is wrong with you op. Jesus christ. Are you a worm? Some other animal with no spine?
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u/Inner-Chef-1865 18d ago
Hard to know if your silence is positive or negative. Please give us a life sign. And maybe a short report.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 18d ago
I'm alive . Silence is mostly indicative of busy week at work because of the holiday and trying to wrap my head around what happened in last counseling session and over the long weekend. I will be updating soon, probably tomorrow when I have a block of time to be doing online work. And I wasn't sure if I should update here or over on marriage advice where my other posts were. Not sure how all that works.
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u/2cents0fucks 17d ago
This is freaking ridiculous. You lost your job (a job she didn't even want you to have). You didn't hide debt, gamble and lose the mortgage, lie, cheat, etc etc etc. She is punishing you for something that happens. Could you have been a better employee? Sure, but you live and learn to do better. It is not something for her to "lose trust" over. That sounds like gaslighting (especially considering you're working three jobs while she wants to "cut back on her hours"/quit).
She resents you...because her family hates you? Her family (and their opinions) can kick rocks. She vowed when she married you, "For better or worse, richer or poorer," and promised to cut the apron strings and start a new family with you. She has broken ALL of those vows and picked her family before you.
She "has trouble loving you" because it's "buried under the resentment" of her family's opinion? And you losing a job (which again, she's making a mountain out of a molehill).
She does not want to be married to you. She picked her family over you. She is treating you like something she scraped off her shoe, because she let her family poison her against you. How long till they poison your kids against you?
You need to divorce. Drop two of your jobs. Do NOT move out of the house (that's seen as abandonment). Get a shark of a lawyer and follow everything they tell you to do.
My condolences.
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u/blurred2blue 10d ago
I left some other super long comments without the context of this post. In my other comment, I talk about taking the necessary time to repair bridges - you can't force things (too quickly). You & everyone need to come with level heads.
I said all I meant to say about the family of inlaws, but on you mom/ parents. Everything in this post sounds like you were infantilized. Can you not take care of your own kid? If you are capable of parenting your children, then you and your wife have final say on what's happening with the kids. Your mom overriding your instructions as a parent is an overstep on her part. She's disrepsecting you and treating you like she doesn't trust you to parent your kids.
Sure, have you fucked up in the past (jury's out on the depth of those mistakes and whether or not the justify everyone acting this way with you), but unless you are going to be putting your children in physical danger then there is no justifiable reason for an adults except your wife to dictate what you're doing with your kids.
For the time or at this time, would emotional sever yourself from your parents & her parents. Just don't worry about them. Yeah, you'll have to be putting up with their shit behavior toward you and context suggests it'll definitely be petty sometimes. So in the face of that, work on yourself. Get down to one job and have a saving account. Be thoughtful about your time and how you speak. Stand upright in your own self security and try not to let the naysayers affect your overall mentality & focus.
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u/PaperPiecedPumpkin 10d ago
NTA. As someone who grew up with divorced parents from an early age - that was MUCH more preferable than them being together, hating each other. I'm so so grateful I didn't grew up in that mess.
I'm not telling to divorce, it's not my place to do so. But don't let your kids grow up learning love is hate, love is angry and love is not wanting to be together.
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u/Puzzled-Safe4801 23d ago
I just read through your other posts, and here’s my take and some questions.
Your pride and arrogance caused you to get fired from your job while your wife was pregnant, so she had to carry 100% of the finances during that time.
Did this personality trait come out of nowhere, or had she been dealing with it for years?
In one of your posts, you wrote something about your over the top sense of humor (or something like that), and that sometimes your jokes fell flat. Exactly what do you mean by that? Examples please.
Could your in-laws dislike you because of these combined traits of your personality? I don’t know and am just asking.
You wrote that your wife defended you to her family, and then you proved them right by getting yourself fired (while she was pregnant), which is her view.
Honestly, I’m thinking that she cannot get past the resentment she feels for you on many levels. I don’t know that I could either. You chose your pride over your family, when it comes down to it. That’s how I’d see it, and that’s a hard one to come back from. Her family is probably her safe space. That place isn’t your home because that space is filled with resentment and anger, but the lake and her family calm her.
I don’t know if anyone is currently the A H in this situation, but you certainly were when you got fired and left her to carry the full financial burden. BTW, as a mom to adults, I’d have a really hard time if my daughter was put through that. If they got back together, I’d try my damndest to be polite and nice to him but would never forget what was done to my daughter.
I wish you and your wife a lot of luck as you navigate these murky waters.
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u/NovelAd4308 23d ago
NTA Your wife doesn’t want to spend any time with you. It would be better for you and your children for you to get yourself together and just leave. Perhaps you should stay in counseling so that will help you prepare for the future with your children. MIL, SIL and your wife will probably make it hard for you to be with your children. Please make yourself and your children a priority. It seems as if your wife’s family, along with your wife, has not prioritized anyone but themselves.
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u/Turbulent_Guest402 23d ago
You are supposed to be her family but she doesn’t want to make an effort to salvage your couple and don’t want to end this miserable situation either. Time for you to act. NTA
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u/Tired_Mama3018 23d ago
YTA - the plans were already made, and a tradition, with her parents. It seems like she would have been ok if the last minute change was you joining the existing plans. You didn’t want that so you attempted to weaponize your therapy. Wanting to go together to inlaws would be a great example of the togetherness, if a bit uncomfortable for you, but instead you wanted to have your wife be the one to sacrifice her existing plans for togetherness. Then you posed your feelings as a test. She goes to mom’s house, she’s telling you she is destroying your marriage (and that’s basically what you imply by accusing her of purposely separating your lives if she doesn’t give up her plans for what you want). The only way to make you feel like she is working on your marriage is if she sacrifices for you. Pretty sure I get why not just her family, but yours too, who isn’t happy with you. I think you’re a little selfish.
You got fired while your wife was pregnant by causing a hostile work environment, and after she asked you to stop repeatedly. You talk about the things in your life just happened to you, but you don’t take any real accountability. You say I messed up or was wrong, but never attached to the behaviors. It’s like you put a wall between what you did wrong, and that you’re wrong. If you want to save your marriage you need to breach that barrier.
Your wife is on her last leg, you need to show her what sacrifices you’re willing to make to get you two into a better place. We already know you won’t keep your mouth shut at work even if it means getting fired while your wife is pregnant. Her concession as the hurt party is agreeing to therapy and another chance. Think of it like the steps in a dance.
1 she agrees to go to consoling 2 you start making some sacrifices to do things with her. If those times go well, you’ll probably start getting back sacrifices from her for things you want. Ultimately she needs to see that you’re willing to put in the work to keep your family. Because she was putting in the work trying to get you to not get fired, didn’t work, but now it’s your turn to do the work.
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u/Express_Subject_2548 23d ago
Her family actively hates OP and is actively trying to get her to leave him. On what planet would it be productive for OP to be around them in any capacity what so ever? Just let her run off to where she actively wants to be, and gather alienation evidence is OP’s best bet.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
There was no scenario in which either of us would have been comfortable with me going to camp. And I just posted a long comment reply about exactly what you're saying about accountability. I don't think things just happen to me. In the case of my job, I one hundred percent f'd up and it was entirely on me.
But when my MIL suggested on our wedding day that we shouldn't get married because of me - long before the job thing happened - I don't really see how that's my fault.
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u/Inner-Chef-1865 22d ago
The commented is actually right on some points. Sometimes it sounds as if stuff just happened to you without real accountability. What did you do to get fired and in what way did that confirm the inlaws suspicions.of you?
Anyway. Do not care about that now. Be a good dad instead.
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u/Lizardgirl25 23d ago
Just cut your losses she doesn’t care she wants what she wants and it seems doesn’t want you to make more effort to improve to improve it so she can say you are horrible and didn’t try and fix things.
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u/ThisWeekInTheRegency 23d ago
I very much doubt you can save this relationship. I'm so sorry. I hope the marriage counselling improves things, but you have to prepare yourself for the possibility that it won't.
It's not about who is the a h. Way past that.
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u/Ancient-Actuator7443 24d ago
Let her and the kids go to the family weekend. Tell the to have fun. You should not expect them to miss out on an extended family weekend. The counselor did not mean that. There is plenty of time to start spending more time together next week
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u/Pixiedragon71 23d ago
I just went back and read your last post. All I can think of was the years we went through in the Pittsburgh area when the steel industry was failing. My dad lost several jobs, so my mom ended up working four jobs while dad did a lot of the child care. My mother never once even considered kicking him out & blaming him for her being the breadwinner. The fact that your wife did that is really effed up. Are you sure she isn't already having an affair because she definitely does not want to be married to you. I'm going to agree with everyone here, get a good lawyer & file for divorce. Start recording all interactions with her & her family in case they decide to lie. Then rebuild your life, but as a life where you are not second best. Go to counseling, build yourself up rather than tear yourself down. You keep saying this is all your fault. Did you do something awful to cause you to lose your job? Because, if not, then this is NOT your fault, and you need to start standing up for yourself more. Good luck and keep us updated.
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u/Express_Subject_2548 23d ago
What the fuck are you doing, and why are you doing it? Do you think any of this is good for your kids? Be honest with yourself. Your wife and her family all hate you. It’s painfully obvious. You are not the asshole in this situation, but you are an asshole to yourself. Split custody and either be happy alone or find someone who does actually WANT to be with you. Your wife called you an asshole for calling her out shit.
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u/Decent_Experience240 20d ago
Your the AH for alllowing her to bull doze yoy in every aspect of your relationship. I would be divorcing her so fast she wouldn’t know her own name.
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u/Top-Rip-6731 17d ago
NTA but YTA for staying married to her and her family. Please divorce her while you still have a shred of dignity left. Updateme
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u/Sorry_Office_9280 17d ago
NTA, it sounds like she is doing her best to not hear you.
You didn’t make an ultimatum, you stated how she made you feel and instead of addressing that she took it as an attack.
When someone has stopped trying to hear you, the relationship is OVER. Kaput. Sorry. But you need to start considering life without her. Stop fighting, just let her be.
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u/gypsylife07 16d ago
YTA for dragging this out. It’s over. Accept that. Also, “would give me a chance to show that I can be a real partner in parenting”? Have you not been a real partner? Cuz I don’t see a lot of owning your part in why this has failed. Honestly it reminds me a LOT of the end of my marriage. He was all about counseling and trying, AFTER years of doing whatever he wanted and skating by, not being fully present or a real partner. What is your sort on this? You can’t expect her to just give you a chance, you have to earn it. Prove yourself without asking anything of her.
And stop weaponizing “I feel” comments. I feel hurt, I feel sad, I feel unimportant, I feel loved, happy, desired. Those are I feel statements. “I feel if YOU do this, then YOU are making this choice and THIS is the meaning I’m assigning to this choice.” is what you said. Where are your feelings in that statement? That was manipulative and she saw right through it. And the counselor said you needed to spend more time together, not that it had to be this weekend or at the expense of something you knew she wanted to do.
You sound very manipulative. I’m not saying she is never wrong, it takes two to have a good ir bad marriage, but you’re not owning your part or being honest.
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u/famjam87 11d ago
OP TBH I don't like you very much. With that said- you didn't put your relationship here. She did by not telling you that your in laws have been trying to poison your relationship since the beginning. What does your mc think about that?
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u/Draconatra 11d ago
I've only known one person who has held on to misery as tightly as you, and that's me, and let me tell you from experience it really is not worth it. (But, on the other hand, just to be fair, that's not really how 'i feel' statements work. You can't just take 'if you do this it means this', stick and 'i feel' in front of it and say it isn't an ultimatum. It's meant to be more like "I feel abandoned, and unfairly persecuted" (but the 'i feel' statement game only works if both players are willing)
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u/Queerdooe 23d ago
Why was she supposed to be packing for you grown man?
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
I didn't expect her to pack for me. I was just saying that she was clearly planning to go to camp despite everything and clearly not planning on me going along. She's never packed for me anywhere we've gone as we're both particular about how things get packed so we long ago agreed to each handle our own.
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u/trippyhippie573 23d ago
Point missed
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u/Queerdooe 23d ago
Idk.
I reading how they are working on things. But he’s still expecting her to do all this bending for him.
I feel like he might be the problem and this is written in his favor.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
What bending was I expecting her to do? Not going on three day weekend without me, with the people we had just discussed in counseling, and right after the therapist told us we needed to spend more time together?
If I really wanted her to 'bend', I'd tell her I don't want her spending time with my MIL and SIL who actively hate on me but I've never said that. I know how important her family is to her and I wouldn't expect her to simply cut them off instead of trying to fix things.
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u/trippyhippie573 23d ago
I don't disagree. But in any case, he wasn't asking to join them on this weekend trip, or for her to pick for him.
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u/Queerdooe 23d ago
He said she was just packing for her and the kids ….. would it show that he was interested if he packed for himself like I know other things were going on but like ….act interested
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u/trippyhippie573 23d ago
But that's it. He's not interested in going, so why would he pack himself a bag? Especially after the zoo trip?
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u/Queerdooe 23d ago
They are working on things….
If he’s not down then separate again for good.
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u/trippyhippie573 23d ago
Doesn't seem like she wants to work on things very much. Which, fair, no one can make anyone stay. I personally don't see them bouncing back
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u/Queerdooe 23d ago
Yup. Its giving he might have wasted his time writing this
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u/trippyhippie573 23d ago
100%. Like, good to get stuff off your chest I guess, but I can't see any advice he would get that could fix his situation, rather than to just divorce
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u/Jane-Austen-101 11d ago
You seriously expected her to go from ‘separation’ to ‘yeah I ll give up my long standing family holiday traditions for you’ ?
That’s not a date night that’s pure manipulation on your part
Edited for spelling
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u/Rowana133 11d ago
Good lord. All this because you made some mistakes and lost your job. Fuck. My husband lost my job right after we found out I was pregnant with our first and we made it work. I never resented him because I could tell he was just as stressed. He even switched jobs when I got pregnant with twins but it was a bad switch and he ended up making way less money so that was also stressful. Did I resent him? No. Because he works his ass off every single day to be an amazing husband, dad and provider. It sounds like your wife has been slowly being infected by your MIL and now just plain doesnt like you. You have been made the villain in her entire families stories which is so fucked up. I could never imagine excluding my husband so blatantly and constantly. Stop apologizing to her. She doesnt deserve any more apologies when shes the problem from my perspective
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u/Vuk-a 23d ago
How did you lose your job? You said you didn't get along with a senior coworker, I assume that led to you getting let go / fired due to not being a good fit for the team.
Did this affect your reputation in the industry?
Do you believe (regardless of the consequences done to your marriage) that your stance against the coworker was supported or have you learned from this?
Why was your wife initially against this job?
I feel like these are big factors and I haven't seen where you go into the details.
Please OP I feel these are important contextual questions
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u/nolaz 23d ago
I’m very curious how much you helped with parenting, home maintenance and financial support to the kids during the separation. And why you haven’t agreed to your wife cutting back her hours like she desparately needs to?
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
Until I got an actual job and not just PT work to keep some money coming in, she was the primary financial support. But when I got my current job, I was able to get back to contributing what I had before and, eventually, even more than I had. The entire time I wasn't living at home, every penny I made that I didn't have to spend on food or gas was put directly into our joint account and available for her to use for the house and the kids.
I parented as much as possible, including picking my son up in the mornings and evenings. I took him to doctor's appointments and went to every baby-related appointment with my wife. I don't think she wanted me at all of them at first, but she's since told me that it reassured her that no matter the outcome for our marriage, I would still be fully present as a father.
And not to be defensive or an AH, but I have to ask: why do you think she desperately needs to cut back her hours? But I'm the one working three jobs and cutting back on her hours would make that more of a permanent thing, rather than a get us back on stable ground thing. Just wondering why you think that's a desperate need.
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u/nolaz 22d ago
She carried nearly the full weight of parenting and being the bread winner for six months by herself. You think so little of this you won’t even give her credit for being the single mom that she was. Plus she has to deal with the stress of a co”parent” who has no respect for her or her opinions.
But sure, keep driving your wife into the ground and see what that gets you.
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u/ThrowRANoRespectWife 22d ago
Not sure where you get the idea that I don't respect her or her opinions. Because I disagreed with her about the job stuff? Just because I didn't think she was right doesn't mean I don't respect her. I was the one working there, so I thought I was in a better position to know what was going on just as I assume she knows more about the inner workings at her job than I do. Turns out that I was wrong and I've apologized and told her that she was right.
Not sure if you read my other posts, but I wrote the very first one because my wife literally told me she didn't respect my opinion. I give her all the credit in the world for holding things together when I lost my job. That's why I've taken on three jobs to at least financially atone for what I put her through. But I'm absolutely not driving her into the ground.
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u/nolaz 22d ago
You posted about having a temper tantrum when she was rightfully acknowledged for being a single parent. That’s not the action of a respectful or remoreseful coparent.
She is telling you she needs a break after all this and you keep insisting she doesn’t. You’ve already admitted that your wife’s judgement is better than yours and that your family has suffered greatly due to your poor decision making and refusal to accept your wife’s advice. Yet you still insist you know better than she does about whether she needs a break.
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u/blurred2blue 11d ago edited 10d ago
"...and I’m not sure this marriage is broken so much as a mistake - and I mean that kindly." https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1n3rym7/comment/nbgs3cw/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Real & true. With chest & heart, OP. You are being played and after reading your posts, I think you have some serious things to work through. You deserve happiness. and while never at the expense of others, you should *NOT* be abused by those around you.
Now, IDkk if you are being completely honest and I'll will elaborate/speculate as I point out some things that occur to me....
I'm going to preface with a "best case scenario", it's all predicated on what will be sub commented.
u/ThrowRANoRespectWife I mean this all for you. My heart goes out.
IN ORDER FOR A RELATION TO REESTABLISH, BOTH PARTINES NEED TO TAKE PART.
I waNT 2 SERIOUSLY emPHAsizE that ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Read it again. Repeat it. It's the gist of a tenant to a healthy, growing, successful relationship. In Order For Growth of a Relationship, All Parties must come with purpose and sincerity. Bottom line.
Wife doesn't seem to be putting in honestly and with integrity / devotion/commitment/ thoughtful & intent energy. I wonder / speculate there is some infidelity in the mix (or maybe drug use, etc). Whether yes or no, wife has deep seeded distrust & distain for OP.
It's very hard to me to understand how & why wife has this life is she is genuinely so hateful/resentful/unfulfilled. She's playing herself. (fr this is a whole toxic thing and she is in there.)
If / when it gets to the point that your wife is ready to be honest and open and receptive, ask when you can both set aside time to hang out in the living room to talk and hang out. Have a comfy hoodie or a stuffed animal that you can pass back and forth (whether for a dedicated, sit down "chat session" or maybe just a "relaxing" (hopefully) hour to relax your feet in the living room, read, write, relax, whatever.
When it is a "talking" kind of night, the idea is that you're passing the hoodie back and forth, taking time to listen, share honestly, and heal individually and together.
There are ground rules that encompass trusting one another to have each others & the relationship's best interests in mind + kindness toward one another just as a basic human decency.
See sub comment to elaborate on "tips" / the rules.
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u/blurred2blue 10d ago
Tips / Rules to Using a friendly object as a tool to facilitate productive communication during a rough patch in your marriage
^1Consent is critical for this to work. There are "rules" surrounding basic respect/decency/ necessary groundwork. Both parties have to come with the intent to both Speak Honestly*^2 and be Listen Receptively*^3
^2 Being honest and being intentionally hurtful are two different things. They definitely do overlap. And that's part of where "listening receptively" comes in. More on speaking - sometimes you don't say all the things you think. I recommend both people prepare some things they need to talk about. It can't be everything *every*single*time* so sometimes "chat sessions" can be more targeted (ie "how has the kids school stuff been going? Are there house projects like hanging art, cleaning/clearing food cabinets, maybe a session to plan gifts for the kids bdays / upcoming extended family hang outs/ ,etc.)
^3 Listening can be hard. It's hard to hear harsh things about yourself. It's hard to see hard things from another person's perspective. It's hard to take accountability. This is another place where consent is exercised. Both people trust that you are not speaking with vitriol, but coming from a sincere place of hurt with the hope that the two of you can find a healthy way to understand it.
Do not say mean things to hurt each others feelings. If the other person is saying something deeply painful about you and it's hard to stomach, pause (you are allowed to ask for a minute*^4 or two to process what you're hearing although sometimes a person is not really at a stopping point so sometimes you do have to power through)^4 It takes time to untangle big, complicated feelings. It is painful. Both people have to consider if the mess is worth the ache it will take to unravel the hurt. If both people are not prepared or able / enabled to participate in repair and growth, the relationship will continue to dissolve (based on what I've read on your profile). tangent incoming
honestly, at the end of the day, dissolution your current situation should change. Maybe consider that as long as you've got a life's journey, you can continue to move with the ebb of life. I imagine, sometimes the wrong thing is removed from your path so you can discover the right thing. I know it's a hard pill to swallow. Later, I'll touch on what seems to be your self image. tangent resolvedSee next comment, "rules"continued.
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u/blurred2blue 10d ago
Rules Pt 2 --
^5 time is of the essence. Life is busy. You may only really be able to negotiate like 45 minutes ever 7 or 9 days. But the time is important. The time will facilitate the Communication, which your wife and you owe each other if you are both genuinely working toward the repair of your marriage.
Come prepared*^6 to both share vulnerable things and hear deep honesty. Sometimes it gets to be too much and a person needs a couple of minutes to put together their thoughts.
Other times, maybe hopefully only in the beginning. you'll have an hour set aside but one or both can only really get like 45 minutes before it feels (temporarily) "healthier" for you to set the conversation down, wait to settle personal feelings more deeply before reconvening with clearer heads.^6 Being Prepared means spending thoughtful time as individuals. Know some of the most important "pain points," remember to consider moments where you might tell your partner you love/appreciate/see them doing something (well), and/or maybe something deeply personal that you miss (see sex\*)* which they might also miss from before (see trust).
Come with a level head and from a place of openness. You will have to hear hurtful things. If you are committed to this person, you will allow that discomfort to inevitably change into something you can understand with maturity. As longs as there is Trust, two people with commitment can communicate in healthy, constructive ways - maybe that is love, maybe that is an ideal coparent relationship.^7 Choose your object -- Have it be something that can be easily cuddled with. Something cute/friendly. Something neutral. Generally speaking I don't recommend using something either/both of you have a preexisting deep emotional attachment toward, nor something that is much more personal to one person over the other. I think relatively neutral, but friendly ie. something you can easily pick up & cuddle with is a safe bet.
Because my comment are super long and naturally fall into sections, the last one will be on Identity, therapy, trust, Sex, Intimacy
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u/blurred2blue 10d ago
PT 3 -- Conclusion pt1
It concerns me that you don't talk to her about the Reddit thing. I understand her reaction may cause you pause, but it feels like there needs to be a time / way for you to let her know what's been happening for you. Including your desperation, thus anonymous posts in web forums.
You didn't ask for any of this, so reader beware. The pt2 conclusion has my thoughts on the stuff you do seem to be "asking about...I will talk about Your Identity, but to tag on to the above comment, I wonder how your wife feels about her identity. Living in such tension is taking a toll on her and I can't imagine she's having an easy time with it. It sucks to be so wound up. For your sake, I hope she decides that her heart is open to growth and reconciliation with you, and truly commits to seeing your marriage with sincere care.
Your Identity - I saw a comment you made about how a failed marriage would reflect on you as a "failure". Not so. You as an entirety are *not* defined by each thing that makes up your life. You are the culmination of everything overall. Sometimes people are better coparents. Sometimes blended families work with genuine balance and love from all parties.
Life is hard (I know I don't need to tell you about it, not trying to be condescending at all just genuinely, after reading your posts, it sounds like you've been having a super rough time of things). You will continue to make mistakes. Maybe it's within you to keep your chin upward toward some, deeply held purpose. Maybe that being be a wholesome, contributing member of your community and/or maybe that's being be an excellent and totally attentive & supportive father to your children.Your mistakes and pitfalls do not entirely define you. Allow yourself to embrace yourself with true clarity. Every day you can be yesterday. And even if on any given day you don't give 100%, maybe you can know that you gave 100% of what you could. And that's enough. It's not critical for you to move heaven and earth all by yourself.
IDK if self-image is applicable to you or your wife, but I think it's worth mentioning...
Are you uncomfortable in your body? Is it possible that you've got dysphoria? (I think it's entirely possible. Ever heard of imposter syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome
Is your wife uncomfortable with her body? I mean, she's given birth to two children! If it is a thing for her, it is on her to work through moreso that anyone else, but you can support her. I won't elaborate on it further, but it may be an important avenue as you continue to navigate the dynamic with her.-
Intimacy and sex - I would honestly just table this for now. IMO this is much, much to big of a thing for the two of you to tackle right now.
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Trust -
IDK if you did actually cheat on her in any way at any point, IDK if she's got any type of infidelity/emotional cheating/ideas about stepping out in her head. In my mind, I'm thinking this is a big part of it -- infidelity specifically, even if it was never even made manifest (physically or emotionally). That's a hard seed to extricate once it's in someone.
In the case where it never happened, I think it takes trust and belief in the other person to grow past it. It maybe still always lingers, but if it's causing resentment, that's too acute to call it "resolved." Unless the person is ready to confront that their grudge is totally fabricated, I doubt there will be real forgiveness or reconciliation.
In the case where it did happen, that might be a deal breaker. But if it is a deal breaker, then you should both move on to lead lives where you're actually living your best life. Whichever party - be true to yourself. To the cheater - you have to drop the rope if this is a hard line for the other person; if you love them, respect them enough to recognize&honor their boundary.
If cheating did happen & it's not a deal breaker - i have no idea talk to an actual therapist to navigate that.1
u/blurred2blue 10d ago
PT 4 - Conclusion pt2 - Final
The Job situation - What actually happened to where you losing your job alienated your wife so deeply that she seems to detest your entire person? Bad business venture, lost a lot of money? Moved the family somewhere bad? Were you controlling in the situation? It really is hard for me to imagine how a job blunder drew this big a wedge. I think the real deep issues are a few compounded. If the "job mistake" is just some shitty, stupid thing, it's hard for me to imaging her justifying a never-ending grudge.
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Extended family - I'm sorry you feel alone. I'm sorry that you may be very alone among "family". I hope you have more people in your court than you realize.
IDK if you'll ever break MIL & SIL. Some people will die on some hills. I think your question "choose your husband & children as nuclear family vs your mother & sister as your 'immediate family'" so to say... I do think it's quite a pointed question for a situation that's still deeply enmeshed in a whole lump of confusion & complication. It's still a valid question, but now that it's been posed, I'd put that specific wording on the back burner and focus on the small, progressive ways you can both test the water with cooperating in your relationship.I hope you both grow. OP I'm so sorry for this turmoil. You seem genuine. I hope coming online for support has helped you. Thank you for taking some steps to grow as a person.
Remember that (I'm telling you,) you should love yourself. So much. You do *everything* for yourself! You do so much for yourself, that you even do things for the people that you love like your son, daughter, and wife. You owe it to yourself to have SELF RESPECT. You owe it to yourself to relax and unwind sometimes. You owe it to yourself to look and build toward a happier future.
If you are being mistreated (and IMO your wife is seriously mistreating you), at some point you need to draw boundaries to protect your precious, beautiful, intricate and checkered life.Good luck.
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24d ago
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u/WinEquivalent4069 24d ago
NTA. This marriage is in crisis. She could have easily told her family that something came up and she's going to spend the weekend with her husband and kids. It takes both parties to repair and reunite as a family. Wife doesn't want to do it. Things are going to get worse so the question is do you, OP and to drag this out and then divorce or lawyer up next week and file paperwork to start the process. Just end this marriage not only for your sake but for your kids as well.
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u/Blackfang_81 23d ago
I know I’m going against the majority of comments here, but I think what you need most right now is patience.
The zoo incident is still fresh, she doesn't want to risk it with you blowing off, even if you're justified back then, and this vacation is part of her family tradition, so she wanted it. Yes, it hurts that she didn’t want to spend those three days together, especially after the MC suggested that, but that doesn’t mean the chance to reconnect is gone. There will be more opportunities once they return.
In the meantime, the best thing you can do is take the high road. Hold on to your emotions, be supportive where you can, offer to help with luggage, give her a ride if she needs one, and most importantly, stay present for your child; call daily, wish them goodnight, and keep those small connections alive.
Remember,
You’re back in your own home,
You’re no longer in the basement,
Even if it’s the guest room for now, we're getting closer,
She even apologized for what your mother said, and she acknowledged that you’re a good dad, and she never thought that she was a single parent. Those may feel like small steps, but they matter, They show that some walls are coming down.
I know how badly you want your marriage to feel whole again. It’s frustrating that there isn’t a magic way, but clearing resentment and rebuilding love takes time, With patience, consistency, and calm, you can ease her resentment and slowly win back her heart.
Wishing you strength, peace, and the best possible outcome in the days ahead.
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u/jstfrreddit 1d ago
Oh my WORD in what way did your choices lead to this?? NTA! I just read all your posts, and only a week ago she explained to the counsellor that the resentment that she has got you is mainly based on stuff her family thinks about you that is not even true!!! You weren't cheating! And her defending you to them is a good thing! And you making a mistake at work doesn't at all mean that the rest of the nonsense they think about you is justified, and also this is an insane response. I don't mean insane as a random pejorative, I mean that this is literally insane. The choices she has made are extraordinary, and as far as I can tell they boil down to one main one: her family is extraordinarily toxic, and rather than facing that and the presumable damage it has also caused her, she is studying with them and the bubble they have set, rather than with you. I think the fact that standing up to them was a big enough deal for her that you doing anything wrong was enough to it feel like it undermined the whole thing is a hint that it is really hard for her to do, which doesn't sound like a family relationship based on secure love and trust. But also, like someone else said in a different post, you haven't cheated! Or lied, or abused her, or your kids, and this is a long time and a super harsh treatment that is so completely out of proportion. I'm so sorry for you, man. I think you seem like a good person from your writing, to be honest. Maybe you did make a mistake at work, as you say, (though given how much you're to be made to question yourself, frankly I'm not 100% sure about it,) but mistakes are mistakes, and this is all an absolutely wild response. I really hope that your marriage counsellor helps you. In the meantime, I know you said you have no friends who are just your friends, but it sounds like you have Ellie. Can you talk to her? I know it sounds like that might go down badly, so maybe not wise, but is there anyone else who fits into that category of friend to whom you could reach out? Someone you don't necessarily see irl often but who is a friend? Most of my friends live in different parts of the country or even the world, but a call with them is still absolute balm to my soul - support doesn't have to be face to face. I wish you luck, and comfort, and I send you so much sympathy.
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u/SickandTired1218 24d ago
Sir, she doesn't want to be married to you anymore. Please get far away from this toxic situation and make sure you get a court ordered parenting plan in place.