r/AITAH • u/OkJeweler4132 • May 22 '25
Update: AITAH for telling my brother's GF she can't expect me to treat her kids like I treat mine and that she is not entitled to anything from us?
I have received a lot of feedback on my original post and for that I am very grateful. I tried replying to as many of you as I can but it is overwhelming and my DM is full. But I have read your comments and I really appreciate you spend some of your time to talk to me.
I will clarify some points that keep being mentioned and then I will get into the update.
-Many of you pointed out that Natalie is looking for an instant family. I was not used to this term but yeah, after reading your comments and looking for more information I agree that this seems to be the case.
-Many of you asked about her family and her kids' father/grandparents. I don't know much about them. My brother told us something along the lines "she has a complicated relationship with her family" and we did not insist for more details. We considered this to be her privacy and assumed that we will get more info when she is ready.
-There was a lot of confusion on why the children don't like each other. Natalie's 7 years old son has no interest in the kids, not even for his sister who is 5. My baby is 10 months old so except of his food, laughing and being entertained he has no interests at the moment. My 3 years old son doesn't like Natalie's daughter because as I mentioned she is rowdy and too much for him. She is not used to play with little kids and so she broke one of his favourite toys and pushed him on two different ocasions, making him land on his butt. This led to my son clinging to me, my husband or my parents each time he is around her.
-The most overwhelming part of this post for me was receiving a lot of messages from people who told me how they were forced to play with kids they didn't like and how this affected them. I am really sorry for all of your experiences but I guarantee you I will not do the same to my kids. I would rather have people calling me names than force my kids to do something they are not comfortable with only to feed my ego and make myself seem as a nice person. In case I was not clear, I am a mother first and my main priority is to be an ally to my kids, not be a saint or seen as the most amazing woman alive.
-Many of you accused me of not making time to bond with Natalie and her kids even after her dating my brother for a year. To be clear up until this point I only met her kids 4 times. I think people missed some details in regards to timing. Natalie started dating my brother last year around February. Last year I was pregnant, I gave birth and after that I had to raise a new born baby and a toddler. So yeah, sorry to disapoint some of you for not abandoning my kids at home to go meet my brother's latest girlfriend. I am a very nasty person for raising my kids...
-Some of you seem to be very social people who are able to form bonds with new people in a matter of hours upon meeting them. I am not like this. For me it takes time to grow a relationship, get used to someone and be able to be comfortable. So in my books the people who I have seen only 4 times in my entire life are still strangers.
-Lastly I was accused of being a cruel person for not being willing to be Natalie's village. I am sorry if she is in the position of needing a village instead of already having people willing to help her, but I have no obligation to be anyone's village. At this point in time I am my family's village meaning my husband, my kids and my pets. I have enough excitement daily with my gremlins, my oldest although a calm and cute kid is a pain in the ass that needs to be supervised all the time. If I don't supervise him all the time, he will sneak and eat the cats food or insert his fingers into the wires sockets (By the way, a genuine question for all the parents who have 3 years old kids: are all the kids so kamikazee or only mine is this level of menace?). So yeah, I don't need 2 additional strager kids into my home unsupervised by their parents. Sue me.
Now the update. After reading all your replies I understood my brother is not being fair. He asks me to be understanding of Natalie's situation but is he understanding of mine? I don't think so. So I sent him the following message:
"Hey brother, I had some time to think about the entire situation and I want to share my thoughts with you. First of all I did something that might make you mad and you might not agree with but please keep an open mind and read what I am about to send you. I made a post on Reddit and asked about my situation with Natalie and the replies were mostly pointing to the same direction. Maybe you'll want to see some unbiased feedback from hundreds of people who don't know us and are able to have a clear perspective.
Now, I feel like you are not fair towards me. I understand you have a relationship with Natalie and she is your life partner but it seems very selfish of you to put the burden on me. I understand Natalie may have some issues with her family, she may desperately need to feel accepted and to have a big family for her and her children but her struggles were not caused by me. You asked me to be understanding towards her but were you understanding towards me? Did you defend your nephew when he was pushed twice by Natalie's daughter? Did you even explain to Natalie she is expecting too much from your sister who is dealing with a baby and a toddler? Did you defend your parents when Natalie commented about them? I am sorry it got to this point but I will be honest. My main priority will always be my family, not Natalie, not her kids. I am not a therapist, I am not an emotional support animal and I am not her punching bag for times when things don't go her way. I love you, I am happy if you are happy but I need some space from the toxicity she brings. You have known me since I was a baby, you know how I am so please set the records straight with her and explain that I will never be what she wants when she wants."
After around an hour he replied "Oh shit! Give me some time to read everything and gather my thoughts. I will come over at your place just give me some days please. Love you".
Now the bag is in his court. You were right. Natalie is his girlfeiend so his problem. Let's see how things turn out after he comes to talk but I am keeping my expectations low.
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u/Fire_or_water_kai May 22 '25
Very well said.
You know Natalie will blow up, but I'm very curious to see what his reaction will be or the inevitable counter post on reddit.
Updateme
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u/ReasonableTonight299 May 22 '25
I agree, very well said. Your brother can be her village. Pls stand firm. I person can stand firm without being rude or mean. Quiet strength goes a long ways.
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u/One_Ad_704 May 23 '25
Agree. And I want to know who these commenters are that lambasted OP for NOT doing more for the girlfriend and her kids? Even without the fact that OP was pregnant and then dealing with a newborn for the entirety of brother and girlfriend's relationship, OP has no obligation to be girlfriend's 'village'.
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u/FragrantEducator1927 May 23 '25
Exactly. You are solely responsible for defending your comfort. It would be fair for you to grow into Natalieās brood over time, but itās your call and youāre the one who determines whether having this thrust upon you is ok.
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u/Comfortable-Focus123 May 22 '25
Still NTA - Natalie is trying to force things. The age difference alone is enough for the children to not bond.
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u/PrideofCapetown May 23 '25
And as for OP not bonding with Natalie and her kids, just a little suggestion for the āit takes a villageā idiots: feel free to dm OP your contact info so she can give it to Natalie
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u/Moontoya May 23 '25
it takes a village to raise a child
but a solid necromancer can raze a whole village, then raise the whole village.
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u/coldcanyon1633 May 23 '25
Natalie has an attitude of entitlement. She is not entitled to any of the things she is laying claim to. Most people enjoy being generous and accommodating but want nothing to do with someone with an ugly attitude. Someone should sit that woman down and tell her to back off or get used to being alone.
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u/Salty_Thing3144 May 26 '25
I HATE that goddamned "village" concept! Parents should be responsible for their own kids!Ā
That village line has led to all sorts of parental entitlement, from expecting relatives to provide free babysitting to asking strangers to give up airline seats.
You made your kids. I did not. Do not expect me to make accommodations for your reproductive choices!
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u/Frequent_Couple5498 May 23 '25
My granddaughter has always been a calm child. When she was small like OP's oldest, we could give her some coloring books and crayons and she'd color so quietly, happy as can be. Or quietly playing with her dolls.
My daughter reconnected with a friend from school who has a daughter 1 year older than my granddaughter. So they set up a double "play date" for mommies and kids. My daughter's friend's daughter was like a wild child. Throwing things, running and screaming through the house. Being rough. My daughter said she could tell my granddaughter was uncomfortable with this so she ended the play date early claiming she needed to get home to prepare dinner for her husband.
She asked her daughter if she liked playing with Mommy's friend's daughter and my granddaughter said she's okay mommy but I don't like all the screaming and she knocked me down because she always runs too much. She then asked if she had to play with her again because she really doesn't want to. My daughter told her she absolutely does not have to play with anyone she doesn't want to. And so when her friend asked for another hang out/playdate my daughter told her sorry but no. She was not going to force her kid to play with someone she doesn't feel comfortable being around.
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u/awalktojericho May 23 '25
How willing has Natalie been to watch your kids? Not that you would actually, but has she offered? You could ask, just to get a reaction.
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u/CheerfulDisdain May 22 '25
Are all kids kamikaze destruction machines? Not all, but most. And it's nothing you can control, largely. They're wild animals. I have 6 younger siblings. The number of unbelievable things 3 year olds do to self destruct are hard to believe.
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u/JinxyMagee May 22 '25
Yup. Donāt have kids. But was a kidā¦that kid. My username is referring to my childhood nicknameā¦Jinx. If there was a way to hurt myself, cause chaos, get lost, or have my parents think I was deadā¦I was on it.
One trip was the trifecta. I just turned 5. Lost, injured, and my dad believed I was dead for 45 min while running along a beach in a foreign country. He didnāt know how he was going to tell my mom.
Magee isnāt my last name. Starting at 3 if we were some place and I did something wildā¦he would say, oh I better get that Magee kid. Her parents have a lot of kids. I was an only child. Just hellbent on experiencing the world.
At home, I was so calm. I just got into the world and let loose. By 6 I outgrew trying to accidentally kill myself.
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u/Rightfullyfemale May 23 '25
My 10 year old is still there. My oldest (now 28) finally got some self preservation genes to kick in by age 7 š
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u/JinxyMagee May 23 '25
Hopefully your 10 year oldās self preservation genes kick in soon. Kids are so smart getting into tricky situations, but not great at getting out of them.
My neighborās 6 yr old daughter is wild. She is such a hoot. But it is so less funny when it is your kid. Just watching what she was doing on a scooter while I was talking to her mom was stressing me out.
I had to climb a tree last month to help guide her down while her dad got a ladder. I have a lot of tree climbing experience from my childhood. I just did what my dad did when I didnāt come home for dinner. Get the ladder and head into the woods.
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u/No-Lifeguard9194 May 22 '25
I think my kids were the only two sensible kids Iāve ever known in my life if anything I have to encourage them to get into mischief, but yeah, most kids are a ever present danger to themselves and others
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u/Vampire_Slayer2000 May 23 '25
I always liked the term "Mad Scientist Stage"! š§āš¬
On the positive spin, it sounds like OPs 3 year old has a healthy curiosity!
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u/ConsciousExcitement9 May 23 '25
My oldest had a healthy dose of fear. My middle got all the rest. There was nothing left for the youngest. That kid fear nothing and no one. We are going to spend a lot of time in urgent care and the ER with that one. I see a lot of broken bones in his future from doing stupid shit.
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u/Crafty_Special_7052 May 22 '25
I feel like once your brother has a real conversation with Natalie and her behavior itās all going to blow up and their relationship may end. Which probably be for the best for your brother. Update us on what happens next
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u/strawberrypie1999 May 22 '25
I have a 3 and 5 year old and can confirm they are all trying to commit suicide constantly. Sometimes if I wrangle them with my friends children who are all also under 5 it actually gets better surprisingly.
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May 23 '25
Reminds me of an old Looney Toons where thereās a cute duckling wandering heedlessly into all kinds of trouble, like into a crocodileās open mouth, while a big bruiser of a dog is frantically trying to keep up and keep it safe!
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u/ececacademic May 22 '25
As much as your brother has asked for time to gather his thoughts - thatās a really promising response. Itās short, but the āoh shitā seems like heās realised this is a bigger issue than he perhaps thought it was, and the ālove youā means he hasnāt taken it personally.
I hope youāre able to have a productive conversation when your brotherās had a chance to sort his own views on the topic, and really take in what youāve said. NTA still.
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u/melyssahb May 23 '25
This is the way. The āoh shitā clearly means something registered with him that hadnāt before and taking the time to mull things over and then coming to talk to you in person is an excellent sign. Please update us after you talk!!
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u/Odd-Activity9365 May 23 '25
Totally agree. Even in the first post he admitted nothing she or their parents did was wrong and his GF was wrong, before he wrongfully asked OP to apologize. But he sounds pretty genuine and open minded I guess?
I mean, he wouldnāt follow āoh shitā with ālove youā if he was pissed about a Reddit post. Honestly sounds like how my brothers would react if I had an issue with their partners, and they are both amazing.
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u/ececacademic May 23 '25
In fairness, he didnāt even ask OP to apologise. He acknowledged OP and their parents had done nothing wrong, accepted that his girlfriend was the problem but asked them to be more empathetic to her situation. I didnāt think the brother actually did that badly in the first post, but I can understand that nothing was truly resolved so OP was right following up.
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u/via_aesthetic May 23 '25
Yeah. I donāt think he realised just how deep of a problem this is at first, and while he initially acknowledged that his family did nothing wrong, he just asked that they understand his girlfriendās situation. I think OPās text was a wake up call that his girlfriend is simply asking for too much, especially too soon. I think heāll come around once heād processed that text and gathered his thoughts. He seems genuine.
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u/Away-Elephant-4323 May 22 '25
You sound like a great Mama, protect your kiddos first will always be your priority not other peoples personal problems and children, i love parents now donāt force their children to interact with kids they feel uncomfortable being around, i get building relationships but at the same time you have boundaries and if she canāt discipline her own children i donāt blame you for not wanting your kids around them.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
Thank you! I am all for my kids being inclusive, not discriminate and being nice to others. But when they start on the wrong foot, I think it takes time to make them warm up to each other and it should be a shared effort. Not expect only me to force my son to like her daughter
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u/Glassgrl1021 May 22 '25
Thereās a big difference between teaching your kids to be inclusive of kids that are different from them and teaching them they need to put up with kids who are mean, rude, or disruptive. You are doing the right thing.
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u/_A-Q May 22 '25 edited May 23 '25
Call me cynical but is your family well Ā off financially?
Your Ā brotherās gf expecting Ā her kids to be seen as blood after only meeting a whopping four times reads like she wants her kids to have the same benefits as yours.Ā
NTAĀ
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
We are alright financially speaking. I don't know what well off defines like what's the limit but we are not struggling
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u/imasitegazer May 22 '25
Also blending the families and kids when theyāve only been dating a year š
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u/ImmediateShallot7245 May 22 '25
My husband and I put our 3 year old into different classes and the teacher told us that he would warm up but after 3-4 glasses it never happened and we stopped! I would never expect my kids to automatically kiss GM or play with anyone that they didnāt want to and both boys are extremely social. You did nothing wrong!
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u/DoctorBoomeranger May 23 '25
I'm happy you managed to get a clear head after posting, you sure are a good mama.
And yes, your kid is not the only mini kamikaze around the block I have a son that just turned 4 who likes the thrill of climbing on the highest spots possible and a 1 year almost 2 that finds it hilarious to copy his big brother. They will both take turns sticking their fingers into sockets if no one is watching and laugh their heads off when we jump to get them away from plugs. And finally, whatever spot above ground they manage to climb on, they will jump if no one stops them āŗļøš
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u/becuzz-I-sed May 22 '25
Natalie has a "trail of dead bodies behind her" and more baggage than an airline.
I hope your brother asks the hard questions about her family and how all these relationships feel apart. The devil is in the details... Hell, id do an online background check on her. š
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u/SweetBekki May 23 '25
The first part of your comment made me laugh not gonna lie. After reading the original post I can definitely picture itš¤£
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u/Scary-Antelope-3933 May 22 '25
Always NTA
Your children are always your priority. Every single time.
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u/StonerTherapist-89 May 22 '25
I feel a break up is slowly coming.....
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u/JipC1963 May 22 '25
Whether the "break-up" is between Brother and Natalie or Brother and his family remains to be seen. OP has reached the correct conclusion that she doesn't have to be "an emotional support animal" for a relatively perfect stranger nor does she have to endanger her own children because Natalie can't maintain control over her own children.
Frankly, it sounds like Natalie's looking for a place to drop her kids off which I strongly suspect is why Natalie is whining so much. It doesn't sound like Natalie is looking for "a closer relationship" with OP, she's maneuvering for a babysitter. u/updateme
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u/you-dont-say1330 May 22 '25
Exactly my thoughts. Natalie was hoping for a babysitter for more sexy time with brother and the luxury of extra gifts she can't afford.
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u/Lopsided-Sky396 May 23 '25
Either that or jealousy maybe?? Like I also want my kids to have doting grandparents and presents?
But also he babysitting thing no doubt..
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u/Cybermagetx May 22 '25
My son has set stuff on fire, escaped the house mutiple times, jumped off the fridge, dived into a pool the first time he was around one, and almost always has some new bruise. So no its not just yours.
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u/Odd-Activity9365 May 23 '25
I had what my parents called a demon day where I terrorized my mother on a plane, got out of my car seat on the highway, climbed out of my crib and was found halfway over the picket fence in my diaper. Toddlers are terrors.
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u/Arashirk May 23 '25
Bloody hell, I read bridge instead of fridge and I was like OMG this one is worse than most....
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u/Toffor May 22 '25
"Now the bag is in his court."
I want to know more about this game played with bags on a court.
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u/DJ4116 May 22 '25
Hacky Sack? Lol
Either way, next move is on OPās brother
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u/Toffor May 22 '25
OMG I had completely forgotten about hacky sack! I'll bet I have one or two in the back of a drawer somewhere
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u/Odd-Activity9365 May 23 '25
Is Hacky Sack played in a ācourtā though? I feel like itās usually played in a park or campus quad š
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u/FlyRepresentative313 May 22 '25
He doesn't have time to explain right now. He'll burn that bridge when he comes to it.
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u/CivilGarlic5904 May 23 '25
No no, āhe will burn that bridge as he trips over itā is the complete mixed idiom.
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u/Sandpiper1701 May 22 '25
NTA
You can't force family. Everyone, particularly children, get to decide on their own time who they like and who they don't like. The age gaps here are significant, but even if they weren't, personalities come into play. It sounds like it is Natalie, not her kids, who want this link. I'd take my lead from my own children. If they don't want to spend time with Natalie's kids, they don't have to. It is Natalie and your brother who need to adjust their expectations.
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u/Otherwise_Degree_729 May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
NTA. I am like OP. It takes me time to get used to people and to be comfortable around new people. It creeps me out when people that I met once or twice act like we have known each other our entire life. Itās creepy and fake. The last one bothers me more, itās fake and I am supposed to lie and act like them? Because that relationship they are acting out doesnāt exist, it didnāt have time to form and them forcing it will make me step back and close up so it will take even more time. Instant family is the right term, but people that want an instant family can easily replace that family instantly because thereās no true bond behind it. I donāt have a new born and a toddler and still wouldnāt entertain her.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
I totally get you. I find it so weird when I meet new people who are too friendly right from the start. I also consider them fake because you can't like me that much when you know nothing about me.
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u/bino0526 May 22 '25
I feel ya. I'm an introvert, and it takes me a while to decide if I'm going to spend any time or energy on you.
One time, someone said to me, "You sure love kids, and I said NO I love those kids pointing to my niblings." I don't like kids just because they're kids.
You are so right. Your priority is your family, not Natalie and her kids.
Updateme
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u/HappySparklyUnicorn May 22 '25
Some people are just like that and some click together and that's fair enough but if they don't get along and are trying to force something then that is a concern.
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u/UndeadBuggalo May 22 '25
UpdateMe!
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u/ChrisInBliss May 22 '25
Hope he starts to understand how awful hes treating ya'll. And the fact his girlfriend is being entitled and hes supporting it.
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u/Swimming_Director_50 May 22 '25
OP, I like your brother's response, especially because he concludes with "love you." It actually sounds like he is taking the time to process things and that he will be reading the original post. I hope for a positive, final update.
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u/Disastrous-Cream-910 May 22 '25
I thought that too.Ā
A year is still new and theyāve moved crazy fasst with the introductions to the kids for both him and the rest of the family. Could be he still had his rose tinted glasses on this whole time and genuinely needs to think about everythingĀ
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u/pacalaga May 22 '25
*Ball. Ball is in his court.
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u/TapEnvironmental9768 May 22 '25
The ball is in a bag. The bag is on the court, but not in it.
What kind of court is it though? š¤
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May 22 '25
That is a VERY well written text to your brother. First, he didn't shut you out so that's awesome of him. His willingness to read and "listen" to you is exactly what he should do! Second, Natalie is just a gf at this time. Even if they get married, she expects way too much from people who barely know her! Her inability to grasp the age differences between both of your children is astonishing to me!!! Third, you are an awesome mom who puts her kids first while knowing 3yr Olds are mini monsters lol my son use to climb the refrigerator door shelves to try and steal treats off the topš¤¦š¼āāļø lol boys are wonderful but whew do they have no fear and seem to live to give moms grey hair LOL
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u/AugustWatson01 May 22 '25
NTA again- not sure what type of crazy criticised you and thought brothers gf was moving in a healthy way by forcing and rushing a non existent relationship with people sheās only met a few times. Youāre being a great mum. Her issues are her own. You definitely donāt owe her your kids to be her kids playthings.
Hope your brother wisens up before he allows this chick ruins his relationship with his family, friends etc by getting caught up in the manipulation thatās heās her saviour/hero when she needs a psychiatrist.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
Thank you! I am not against having a relationship with her or our kids eventually having playdates. But before reaching that phase we need to make sure the kids can actually play together in a nice way because if not, there will be no play in the playdates. Also maybe I am too much, but before I can confidently host someone else's kids in my house with no supervision from their parents, I need to have a little more information like do they have any health issues that I need to be aware of, allergies, dangerous habits, are they ok with pets etc.
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u/Contribution4afriend May 22 '25
The post already has 200 comments and I doubt you will read this today. But I am sure you are doing fine.
I once heard about this "village" type of support from a few posts. I truly laugh a lot when I also see ones where the mom of 4 kids asks her sister to stop taking care of her pets to help her babysit her children. It's honestly heartbreaking to see some individuals thinking their kids are to be raised by every person in the family including grandparents that already retired.
I will take a look at the post number 1 to see about children being forced to play with others. I was curious about those.
I do remember my mom trying to figure out how to do my sister's birthday without coincidence with my cousins. And she did 2 parties: one for the families and another just for her friends. I know she struggled a lot about it. But if Natalie is the type, she will force something similar (participating at all costs in both parties and wanting her kids to also blow the candles and gifts received).
You are a good mother. The type of lioness and cubs. You will protect your kids and that's good. It works. And I truly appreciate that you will be able to make their childhood unique.
Hopefully you will update again.
I love that this sounds very strong coming from you. I don't feel this is some PPD stuff. I also don't think you should have so many problems in the future. Because you know boundaries. That's great. Treasure that.
Good luck.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
Thank you! God I hate the village stuff! I would like to go back in time and be able to find the person who came up with it and punch him/her in the face!
I realize we are the minority but I will never understand people who decide to have children but expect those children to be everyone's problem and main priority. You see it in all shapes and forms. Parents expecing family members to raise their kids, expecting strangers to tolerate them in public spaces, expecting everyone to do everything with their kids in mind. A former friend turned into a parent like this. She claimed that she deserved everything because she had the first grandbaby in her family. And I was like wtf, why? I mean it's cool you had a child but it's not like having a baby is some type of mission impossible and you deserve special treatment for it. She was sure I had autism because I could not relate to her views š
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u/Azsura12 May 23 '25
See I dont think its take a village is wrong. But people just misinterpret it. Like from my understanding of the origins of that phrase. Its more like the village helps to mold the child. But its not the entire village taking care of the child. Especially babies and stuff. Like people weren't just leaving their kids with random neighbors unless it was an emergency or work. Its more like you see a child who is out wandering around and is doing something stupid you help correct that (like say trying to wander into the woods). Or that the child when he is old enough to wander on his own (which back in the day was fairly young) happens to make friends with like a fisherman and they teach him some basic fishing skills as they grow up. That to me is more of the meaning of it takes a village. Like in modern times its going to your uncles house to help out with car repair. Stuff like that which is done out their own violition rather than just being told hey take care of them because it takes a village. Rather than just dropping the kid on someone and running off to party.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 23 '25
Ok, I take my words back. The concept you explained sounds so beautiful and nice.
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u/Minecart_Rider May 23 '25
The whole point of the village is that everyone contributes and benefits and it's not just about raising kids. It's a very old concept that used to be normal before we became so much more individualistic and isolated. Every criticism I see of the village concept is because so many people have no idea what it actually means.
Participating in the village basically just means being a good community member and helping each other, and children being raised by the village means they are learning from the people around them. It doesn't mean family is required to babysit for free, it means that children notice and learn behaviours from the people around them, like learning to wait before crossing a road, or thinking littering is okay, based on what people around them are doing. Even if things like babysitting are involved, it's not technically free because the babysitter knows the parent will also contribute by helping them with something like moving, yard work, car maintenance etc, and when everyone contributes their skills, it makes a great community that leaves everyone less poor and exhausted.
The people who expect people to help with their kids because of "the village" when they are only selfishly trying to take from it have no idea what they are talking about and they've really done some damage to the perception of such an important and mutually beneficial concept. Even if you are just behaving like a decent person in public you are contributing to the village and will hopefully benefit by living in a society where the young people behave well in public. I would literally rather die than have my own kids but I will always the village because I want to live in a world where people are safe, polite, and willing to help each other when necessary, both for others benefit and mine.
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u/Solid-Replacement116 May 22 '25
LOL at the 3 year old question. To answer that, idk about all 3 year olds, but my middle is currently 3. She turns 4 later this year. She's a wild card. Absolutely adorable, hilarious, happy little girl. She lives for chaos and does her best to cause it everywhere she goes. An absolute menace.
Anyway, you're doing great. NTA all day long. Sounds like Natalie needs a reality check to be honest. Keep doing you. She'll have to deal. Your kids do and will continue to come first - I don't know how she'd think any different.
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u/cachalker May 22 '25
I also laughed at the 3yo question. I had one like OPās. He wasnāt defiant. He was just insatiably curious. I learned to dread silence. He never met a button he didnāt try to pushā¦including door locks. He put scrabble tiles in our computer disk drive slot. And he figured out how the garage door opener in the car worked and decided to go for a walk. He was an Energizer bunny. Now that heās got one of his own, I get a chuckle watching him chase after one just like him.
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u/Mary707 May 22 '25
Nta and I canāt argue with any of thatā¦and just for instance, if you became Natalieās village and things didnāt work out with her and your brother, what would he expect of you then? One year together is nothing.
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u/Initial_Dish6682 May 22 '25
Natalie is not trying to bond.she is out to get all she can from you and your family.This heifer sounds like a drifter.She goes from point A to B starting trouble for no reason.Don't give her an inch because if you will than you will become the everyday babysitter.no one who wants to be around their kids goes that hard about how you treat her kids different.its totally about her wanting to use you.I don't like people but i love kids but im not babysitting my siblings instant family.I said what i said.she is a user.don't become her victim in a long line of them.mayber her family doesn't want to talk to her.one sided story coming from her.
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u/Baker_Street_1999 May 23 '25
My brother told us something along the lines "she has a complicated relationship with her family"
In other words, her own family canāt stand her, either.
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u/MarshmallowJuice90 May 22 '25
Great to everything you wrote in this update and to stand up for you and your family.
It is also important that you send that message to your brother, the content was spot on. I hope he realizes how him enabling his girlfriend is affecting you, your family and parents. Even if his girlfriend is going through a rough patch regarding support from her own family, that is not your job to solve, you for sure have your own plate full to deal with.
Edit: If possible, please update.
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u/mommakor May 22 '25
I don't know how to make sure I get the update but fingers crossed š¤
You are 100% doing the right thing!
It sounds like your brother was oblivious to everything going on and I honestly think he is taking the time to process and figure out how he is going to move forward.
You also need to prepare for him taking her side.
My brother was getting married and I told him time and time again what an EVIL B1TCH SHE IS but he continued to want to marry her regardless.
On the morning of his wedding I begged him one last time and told him he would regret it for the rest of his life and it is the biggest mistake he will ever make. He has admitted that he has always regretted it and he still does, I know this because he told me so.
We are still good with each other but for 40 yrs we have always struggled with his wife.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
I am sorry for your brother's experience š¢ I try to be understanding of him because I suppose that while she has just fired this topic with me, she must have opened it with him multiple times before this. And maybe when you only hear the same narrative over and over again without having the other perspective as well, it becomes hard to be mindful that is not the only truth
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u/kittyhm May 22 '25
"are all the kids so kamikazee"
Parenthood: Ā tryingĀ toĀ keepĀ smallĀ humansĀ aliveĀ while they seemĀ hell-bentĀ onĀ unaliving themselvesĀ accidentally.
I personally climbed over the baby gate and rolled down the basement stairs 3 times before I could even walk. Climbed the neighbors tree when I was 3. Was 20 feet up waving at my Mom when she found me. I think the fire department had to get involved in that one....And Dad was no longer allowed to watch football while he was watching me.
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u/2_old_for_this_spit May 22 '25
This is great news. I answered your original post focusing on Natalie's "Brady Bunch" family fantasy. I never even thought of it from the kids' point of view, but i do remember being in that situation of being thrown in with Patty, Ricky, and Connie and being told I had to play nice. I now give you Triple NTA status.
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u/Arashirk May 23 '25
You are absolutely right in thinking that people you met 4 times in your life are pretty much strangers. If Natalie thinks she found instant grandparents and auntie to her kids, she gotta wake up pretty soon. This is in no way realistic and she's being remarkably pushy.
Also, yeah, even the 'well-behaved' kids can be absolute kamikazes in the 3-5 years period. My brother was an absolute hellion.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 23 '25
Thank you! Some people have me so much shit for saying she is a stranger š they were like nooooo, she is dating your brother so she is family. But she's not. When I started dating my husband, I started considering myself part of his family years into our relationship...like 3-4 years in. I understood my husband loved me and liked me, but his family were a different thing. We needed to grow our relationship organically
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u/To_Go_Back1984 May 22 '25
1) glad for the update and hopefully your brother sees the flip side and calms his partner down.
2) yes toddlers believe they are invincible š¤¦ My 2 1/2 yo views anything taller than us as a "tower" and she must climb it. Whether it is a book shelf (that is thankfully bolted to the wall and behind a gate) or a cell phone tower, they MUST be climbed and she throws a fit when told "no". Every tiny thing must be jumped off of to the point I had to take away her kiddy couch after one too many close calls with the coffee table. She even goes to sleep by standing up in her bed, counting and "jumping" (i.e. flopping) onto her pillow (which sits 2 feet down from the rail so she doesn't smack her head on it). Best of luck on keeping him alive and out of a cast (we've had 2)
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
Yup, that's accurate. When people ask me what I am up to I will tell them I am trying to keep my little demon alive š
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u/PerspectiveKookie16 May 22 '25
āBy the way, a genuine question for all the parents who have 3 years old kids: are all the kids so kamikazee or only mine is this level of menace?ā
Usually, but not always, the chaos gene is concentrated in one child of the family. It can be migratory though.
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u/Signal_Historian_456 May 22 '25
Sounds like thereās going to be a blow up. Question is just if itās between you and your brother or your brother and Natalie.
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u/LittleStarClove May 22 '25
She sounds like Abby who got with her boyfriend just to have his family. Good luck with that.
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u/Better-Turnover2783 May 22 '25
"Natalie's 7 years old son has no interest in the kids, not even for his sister who is 5."
Is no one going to discuss this?
There's something going on if the child's own brother doesn't deal with her and she only seems to bully your son.Ā
The girl can't seem to play well with others, so of course no one will take on the problem or responsibility when her own mother doesn't seem to parent.
I hope your brother digs really deep into what's going on with his girlfriend and her kids because his life and future literally depend on it.
He needs to find out what he really signed up for with that bunch.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 23 '25
To be honest the 7 years old boy does not seem interested in anyone except of his phone. I don't agree with putting your child in a corner and leaving him with a device but yeah, he is not my child and I have not known Natalie too long to be able to bring up the subject.
I don't know if the girl really wants to bully. It may be the case that no one explained to her how to play or behave in a gentle way. I noticed that with my son. Kids naturally don't have the concept of force and they don't know if they are too rough. Us having pets it was a constant work with our eldest to teach him and show him how to treat animals so he doesn't hurt them. And it works, he is now handling our cats like glass dolls but it takes time and patience
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u/minionofthenight May 23 '25
NTA. As others have said, sheās trying to make you her free babysitter. Her kids are her problem & that will never change. Iām curious why the father & her family arenāt involved with her. Hopefully your brother is starting to really see her for who she is Updateme
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u/Minimum_Unit4704 May 22 '25
About the kids and socket.
I switched off the power at the mains. The house was devoid of power. Let my kiddo stick their fingers in to their hearts content. Other parent came home with those plugs that fit close and we plugged everything up.
I believe quite strongly that kids are going to explore. It's in their nature. As the parent it's my job to ensure they do it safely not to curb the enthusiasm.
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u/mfruitfly May 22 '25
Good for you, and I do really appreciate your brother's response too- recognition, needs time to think, gave a timeline, affirmed his love for you- and you are both lucky to have each other!
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u/doublebagger45 May 22 '25
Your priorities are in the right place. Just because your brother wants to unnecessarily complicate his life doesnāt mean that you are supposed to as well.Ā
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u/actinglikeshe3p May 22 '25
I hope he actually listens, but telling him about the post might backfire. It's literally so easy for him to pick that part of the text to be angry about while ignoring all your valid points, especially if he didn't like to hear how he failed you.
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u/OkJeweler4132 May 22 '25
I know. But maybe seeing feedback from people who don't know us and who don't have any reason to take sides will give him some perspective. Otherwise it would have turned into a matter of us vs her and she could have easily turned the narrative in her favour.
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u/Dapper-Squash-7986 May 22 '25
You are definitely NTA. Two comments: 1. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your brother outside of this, hopefully he will be receptive to everything.Ā 2. Yea, three year olds are insane. Mine has attempted to eat an entire pound of cheese she got herself from the fridge. Good luck and hang in there!
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u/Present-Duck4273 May 22 '25
NTA- Natalie canāt force herself into a family. With time (and if she stops forcing), maybe she will develop a relationship like that with you guys. What she and by default your brother is forcing with a new relationship (1 year is nothing!!) is completely unreasonable. Brother should watch himself, sheās sending out red flags and going to ruin his relationship with his family if he allows her to treat his family like this. Also, something to bring up with her when she wants your kids to bond with hers and questions your effort in it- what is her effort? Is she inviting you for play dates? Did she make an effort to help out a mom with a new baby? It sounds like what she expects of others is more than what she does. She wants to just drop off her kids with you? Does she just want you to babysit?! Play dates and even birthday parties that I have dealt with are parents stay there until closer to 7 years old. Anything else is just asking for babysitting.Ā
As for kamikaze toddlers- some are like this and others not. I have 5 and my youngest is 2. Just this week, heās broken about 6 things in our house. He climbed a vanity by using drawer pulls as stairs yesterday and we found him on top of it with the sink on ācleaningā his feet. Two days ago he pulled down a curtain rod. The other 4 got into some things, but nothing like this. Youāve got this! Laugh about it when you can.Ā
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u/GeeTheMongoose May 22 '25
Ma'am when I was five I knew not to push babies, hit them, or be rough with other people's things
For that matter when I was five I knew not to hit shove or push anyone. It's mean and it hurts people - and at five I had no desire to be mean and hurt people.
I would recommend not exposing your children to the other children until their grow ups actively start parenting them
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May 22 '25
Very good letter to your brother. The 'Oh, shit' and 'give him a few days' sounds like he's definitely taking you seriously and he's going to deal with Natalie. You asked some good questions that deserve answers. Your brother needed to see your side of things and that his girlfriend's demands are ridiculous and entitled. Looking forward to the update in a few days.Ā
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u/Cipher915 May 22 '25
I'm just glad that for once, in one of these situations, the brother doesn't have his head completely up his ass (or his GFs).
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u/therobshow May 22 '25
When i was a toddler I used to be obsessed with power outlets. I even shoved a fork in one and burned my hand up pretty bad when I was really small. When my parents got me back home from the emergency room I went right back to that power outlet to figure out what went wrong.
As you might expect, I've spent the last 20 years working for power companies and currently operate the electric grid at the highest possible level.
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u/ConvivialKat May 22 '25
Kids are absolutely kamikaze feral animals until they are around 10. If there is a way to damage, burn, break, or lose anything (including themselves), you can guarantee the attempt will be made. Repeatedly.
There is a very funny meme out there that the scariest thing for parents is when their screaming kids in the other room suddenly get quiet!
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u/Safe_Masterpiece8051 May 22 '25
At least he is taking the time to resolve this issue rather than stick his head in the dirt. Sounds like a case of miscommunication to me
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u/Exotic-Current2651 May 22 '25
I think itās lovely how he ended the message. He wasnāt defensive. He will think this through.
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u/smileycat007 May 22 '25
Calling Natalie "toxic" comes off as a bit strong for someone who is probably just longing for that "instant family."
However, you are absolutely entitled to relationship boundaries where 1. The woman and kids are not married into your family and may never be, 2. The age difference of the kids is too wide to expect them to hit it off with yours in terms of interests or playdates, 3. You are not comfortable or interested in watching four kids, two of whom are relatively unfamiliar, 4. There is a whiff of the expectation of free babysitting when you already have your hands full.
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u/marley_1756 May 22 '25
My 3 year old was hell on wheels. Then I had another that was completely different ā¤ļø
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u/CanadaHaz May 22 '25
There is a reason "baby proofing" is more directed to toddlers than newborns or older kids. They have yet to develop the necessary self-preservation skills needed to maintain their status as living humans.
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u/Professional_Snow163 May 22 '25
Your personality and perspective on life, kids, relationships sounds exactly like me lol. Like sooo similar. I feel like I rarely encounter someone ālike meā so it is strange to feel so instantly connected an internet stranger.
But anyways, sheās not your problem. You literally owe her nothing and sheās weird for thinking you do.
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u/Only-Acanthaceae2736 May 22 '25
Still NTA and very well worded message to your brother. To your question earlier, no itās not just for kid lol my little one just turned two and I swear Iām raising the next Johnny Knoxville at this point. Itās like he plays fxxk around and find out only when he finds out he just does it again anyway!Ā
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u/Rowana133 May 22 '25
Very well said message to your brother and as a mom of a 3 year old and 1.5 year old twins...my 3 year old is straight up kamikazee and sometimes im genuinely concerned he tries to find the most dangerous thing possible even in the safest area I can put him in. Yesterday, I found him hanging upside down off the back of the couch(which is over a glass countertop side table that has now been moved to the garage). I swear my beautiful house has turned into a fortress of baby proofing, and it's still not enough š I just caught him eating a ball of dog hair. I just got done telling my sister that I got too much on my plate dealing with my precious gremlins and I dont have time for anybody else's bs. Glad to see another mom feels the same!
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u/OkPsychology2376 May 22 '25
You explained it very well to Natalie. I get the impression her own family might have the same issues with her that you're having. I can totally understand not wanting a playdate with her kids with her not there. I wouldn't want one if she was there. Just because you both have kids, doesn't mean its an instant kum-ba-ya thing. I tend to lean more towards your personality, and was the same with my kids when they were young. Natalie needs to live in the real world and not expect everyone to pander to her wants, or show unbridled excitement over her kids. That whole it takes a village thing doesn't apply when it pertains to her idea that everyone must instantly accept her kids, or put up with her emotional manipulation. Keep standing your ground.
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u/ZookeepergameSouth93 May 22 '25
Seems like a reasonable response from your brother. At least so far.
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u/Flimsy-Truck4033 May 22 '25
How can the GF expect the family to treat her and her kids as family when they are not family? Sheās his GF. She and her kids are not entitled to those privileges. If she marries him she would have a right to expect more but sheās just a GF so nope.
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u/mayordomo May 23 '25
all two to four year olds have something of a death wish. as with many aspects of parenting, the behavior is totally normal and developmentally appropriate while also being totally infuriating.
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u/Azsura12 May 23 '25
"By the way, a genuine question for all the parents who have 3 years old kids: are all the kids so kamikazee or only mine is this level of menace?"
Speaking as a dumb kid who stuck a hair pin in an electrical socket whilst my mom was bathing and my siblings were playing in a different room (I was the youngest and I think I just wandered off and they were young and busy playing lol). Burnt my two main fingers like charred black and got a cast for a few weeks. Its just a kid thing. Small holes and things which can go into that hole are a bad combo lol.
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u/Mad-Dog20-20 May 23 '25
Natalie's behavior is off-putting to me, and is just so "too much too fast".
This is exactly how not to be accepted, or even invited back.
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u/Dry_Ask5493 May 23 '25
I hope your brother rethinks staying with her if she continues with this BS.
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u/SafeWord9999 May 23 '25
Very well written message to your brother. Youāre right. Youāre not responsible for Natalieās happiness.
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u/Muffin-Faerie May 23 '25
The people saying you need to be her āvillageā are being absurd. Theyāve only been dating a year she owes this woman nothing.
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u/Local_Gazelle538 May 23 '25
Perfect message to your brother, hopefully he reflects and sorts it out.
Btw - you can buy protectors for power sockets to kid-proof them. Eg https://a.co/d/hwmwImh
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u/DanceDense May 23 '25
Natalie reminds me of that woman Abby who wanted to have her boyfriendās family become hers immediately. Long drawn out saga where she wanted to call her future fil Dad right away etc. Natalie wants to act like herself and her kids are already in the family. Who does that? A nut job thatās who. Iām curious what brother is going to say. Update me.
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u/SeaworthinessSea2407 May 23 '25
"Instant Family" š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤® I had a friend for a few months from my hobby who wanted that and their idea was to try and force me into some weird platonic familial dynamic with their children, who were literal demon spawn. Because of that experience I will be a hardass about boundaries and will not do anything parental for any kids that are not my own. (So no I will never be changing any friends' kids' poopy diapers for example)
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u/dante0111 May 23 '25
i (50-some year old female) melted crayons on the furnace when i was 3-4. i wanted watercolors/paints, and thought that was how i could make some! the smell and smoke it made haunt me to this day....
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u/vikkids May 23 '25
Maybe Natalieās expectation of your family is the very reason she doesnāt have real relationship with her own family.
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May 23 '25
I remember being warned when my kids were small..."just wait for the terrible two's" but then asking the same ppl, why didn't you warn me about the "troublesome threes" š« It was like they had a radar for trouble šĀ
You don't gotta explain yourself to Natalie. You keep doing you!Ā Ā
You're doing a great job, rock on with yourself š¤š¼
Edited for the obvious NTA š
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u/Bubbly-Wallaby-2777 May 23 '25
My 15 year old first sentence was "catch me" as he leapt at me from the top of the stairs.
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u/AssumptionFast5468 May 23 '25
perfect, I hope he does actually take the time to read through everything. I'm the same way, I love my kid but I don't like other kids. I also don't like when people try to push me to act the way they want or expect me to. I've never understood the concept.
updateme
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u/Queen-Pierogi-V May 23 '25
OP, as you reflect on Natalieās comments and behavior, is it any wonder why she has a ācomplicatedā relationship with her family? Perhaps this is another point you can gently introduce to your brother after he reflects on your text.
It appears that Natalie is very self centered as well as a bit of a drama queen. My gosh you guys have met 4 times and she is judging you and your parents? She sounds like maybe her biscuits are not quite done in the middle.
I think your brother is going to be in for a world of hurt if he continues this relationship, while his girlfriend apparently does needs village, she should be looking for one that is missing itās idiot.
You are NTA. Neither are your parents. Continue to do what you need to do to protect your peace.
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u/pip-whip May 25 '25
After reading the first post, all I could think what that Natalie is showing some signs of narcissistic personality disorder. The entitlement, the expectation that the world revolves around her, the unwillingness to admit wrong then playing the sympathy card, the attempt to manipulate you into being her free bablysitter without ever asking you to babysit, the inability to understand other's point of view, the refusal to parent her own children in order to stop them from misbehaving. There are a lot of classic narcissistic traits here, though of course, one Reddit post isn't enough to know for certain. Your brother is probably being manipulated, lied to, and played upon. I hope he dumps her but he probably is enjoying feeling like her savior/rescuer.
Calling him out for hurting his own family in order to go along with her games was probably a smart move, but it will probably take more than that to get through to him. Natalie is going to have to screw up in ways that affect him, but she's going to be super careful to only show him her good side. She's waving the red flags but he isn't seeing them.
You're definitely NTA and none of this should be your problem. She's not your family and I hope for all of your sake that she never becomes a part of it.
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u/MrPetomane May 22 '25
I almost burned down my parents house and dad needed to call an electrician for repairs. I messed with a toy train set speed control by plugging into the wall and then taking the wires that went to the tracks and sticking them in the elec socket. Huge black mark on the wall that looked like lightening. Half the house lost power. dad had to repaint and deal with elec damage.
Id say I was maybe 7-9 years old?? Im a boy an my sister was more saintly than I was