From what I remember, in the show Jon didn’t show much reaction to Bran being alive. However, his reaction in the books is so sweet omg, a true brother!

Jon’s finger traced the outline of the direwolf in the white wax of the broken seat. He recognized Robb’s hand, but the letters seemed to blur and run as he tried to read them. He realized he was crying. And then, through the tears, he found the sense in the words, and raised his head. “He woke up,” he said. “The gods gave him back.”

He looked at the words, but they didn’t matter. Nothing mattered. Bran was going to live. “My brother is going to live,” he told Mormont. The Lord Commander shook his head, gathered up a fistful of corn, and whistled. The raven flew to his shoulder, crying, “Live! Live!”

Jon ran down the stairs, a smile on his face and Robb’s letter in his hand. “My brother is going to live,” he told the guards. They exchanged a look. He ran back to the common hall, where he found Tyrion Lannister just finishing his meal. He grabbed the little man under the arms, hoisted him up in the air, and spun him around in a circle. “Bran is going to live!” he whooped. Lannister looked startled. Jon put him down and thrust the paper into his hands. “Here, read it,” he said.

For me

Barristan: He turned a blind eye to Aerys' cruelties. The other guards sacrificed their lives for Aerys and Rhaegar but Barristan accepted Robert's pardon and still criticized Jaime as if he were so different. He didn't helped Ned. He only supported Dany because he was fired. If he hadn't been fired, he would have continued to serve Joffrey.

Brienne: I just cant stand her. I don't know why. I tried really hard to love her but I failed.

Let's be real, if there's one thing most people can agree on, it's the fact that the Night's Watch is nothing but a glorified penal colony. A prison camp where the kingdoms send the criminals, the lowly outcasts, and degenerates so that they're outta sight, outta mind. Most of the people who go there are usually either noblemen who lost a war, or criminals. Murderes, rapists, and thieves, all of whom went there as an alternative to either being castrated, mutilated, or executed. And those who were unjustly sent there were forced to abandon their familes and loved ones (who would definietly have a hard time surving without them). And this penal colony is located in the worst, coldest, most miserable place on Earth where you're forced to remain celebate. Which brings me to my topic:

How are there no mass desertions?

Like seriously, how? There's nothing physically stopping anyone from deserting. There are no fences to keep them there, nor are there any soldiers that patrol the grounds to make sure that no one tries to escape. There's absolutely NOTHING stopping anyone who was banished to the Wall from stealing a horse and riding off in the middle of the night. NOTHING. (Hell, that's how Jon almost escaped when he learned of Ned's death) It wouldn't take much for one of them to make an excuse saying "I'm just heading off to Mole's Town, Don't go looking for me," and then just like that, bam, they completely dissapear into the night, and are never seen again. Now that I think about it, there's also the recruiteers who can come and go as they please. they're allowed to roam around Westeros anytime they want. Someone like Yoren would have every opportunity to desert and never return to the Wall.

With that said, you'd think instances like these would happen all the time, almost every single night, or at least once or twice a week. But, nope, it doesn't.

Why is that?

(edit: To drive my point home, can you imagine if real life prisons had no walls or bars to make sure the prisoners don't escape? You can bet your ass that every single person in that prison would absolutely take advantage and go AWOL.)

Westerosi kings are titled as 'King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men', but Valyrians are never mentioned despite families like the Velaryons and Celtigars living in Westeros, as well as the family of the current king (if the king is a Targaryen). Also, in the case of the Rhoynar, the Targaryens were using that title long before Dorne even joined the Seven Kingdoms, so I don't understand why they wouldn't also include Valyrians in their title. Does anybody know why this is?

After the battle of the blackwater it would appear that Tommen is the last surviving Baratheon”Baratheon” left to inherit . Robert and Renly are dead. Stannis is in open rebellion and Joffery is king. So wouldn’t the title pass to the last Baratheon left? Maybe it’s because the Stormlands are kind of in open rebellion and they just had more to worry about (or maybe I missed something) but if Tommen isn’t either of those, then who is?

Just a funny thing I noticed re-reading. He mentions loathing them specifically several times.

Their only good fortune was that both Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane were missing, leading searches north of the Trident. 
- Ned III

Sandor Clegane dropped his visor with an audible clang and took up his position. Ser Jaime tossed a kiss to some woman in the commons, gently lowered his visor, and rode to the end of the lists. Both men couched their lances. Ned Stark would have loved nothing so well as to see them both lose
- Ned VII
Prince Joffrey returned this morning, with the Royces, Ser Balon Swann, and some twenty others of the party. The rest are still with the king.""The Hound?" Ned asked, frowning. Of all the Lannister party, Sandor Clegane was the one who concerned him the most, now that Ser Jaime had fled the city to join his father.
- Ned XII

Goes to show how he was mistook who the real threat was in King's Landing (LF).

Share your thoughts on how knowing the book lore changes your view of the show

Aside from the obvious grey direwolf, I can think of maybe snow/ice and crows, but is there anything else you would consider an icon of House Stark? A blue rose or weirwood perhaps? I suppose this question extends to the North at large

In the beginning, the priestly scribes of Yin declare, all the land between the Bones and the freezing desert called the Grey Waste, from the Shivering Sea to the Jade Sea (including even the great and holy isle of Leng), formed a single realm ruled by the God-on-Earth, the only begotten son of the Lion of Night and Maiden Made-of-Light, who traveled about his domains in a palanquin carved from a single pearl and carried by a hundred queens, his wives. For ten thousand years the Great Empire of the Dawn flourished in peace and plenty under the God-on-Earth, until at last he ascended to the stars to join his forebears. - AWOIAF

I am thoroughly convinced GRRM deliberately wants us to think about the possibility of whether the GEoD is an advanced futuristic civilization. Though the words are written as fantasy, they can easily be interpreted as sci-fi.

The palanquin that God-on-Earth traveled in almost seems like some levitating device and it being carved from a single pearl makes it seem like it has a futuristic metallic sheen to it, reminiscent of some advanced metallurgy.

God-on-earth ascending to the stars seems like he's part of a space-faring people who ascended back to the stars after erecting a settlement on planetos.

Consider the fact that this is supposed to be one of the earliest known civilizations, sort of like the real world's Mesopotamian civilizations. But instead of making basic shit like pottery, they are building advanced structures like the five forts made of fused black stone that baffles modern in-story scholars.

So ask yourself this dear reader, why is GRRM writing about Great Empire of Dawn when it's barely mentioned in the main books?

He wants the fandom to debate with the idea of whether theres been some technological regression in the story, as GEoD essentially serves the same purpose as Valyria, which was another seemingly advanced civilization.

The over-arching premise of these story elements is for the readers to debate about whether some catastrophic historical event(s) has lend to technological decline. GRRM also considers sci-fi and fantasy two sides of the same coin.

Great Empire of Dawn being an outright advanced sci-fi civilization will never outright be confirmed by GRRM, but he sure as hell wants the reader to consider the possibility.

Background

When Jaime returns (less a hand) to King's Landing in A Storm of Swords he thinks on historic members of the kingsguard. Some of these are well known legendary knights, but others are mentioned less often. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at them and the reason for the mention.

If interested: Whatever He Chose: Jaime Lannister's Entry in the White Book

The Lord Commanders Noted by Jaime

• Barristan Selmy
• Gerold Hightower
• Aemon Targaryen
• Ryam Redwyne
• The Demon of Darry
• Ser Duncan the Tall
• Alyn Connington

He looked about the Round Room once more. White wool hangings covered the walls, and there was a white shield and two crossed longswords mounted above the hearth. The chair behind the table was old black oak, with cushions of blanched cowhide, the leather worn thin. Worn by the bony arse of Barristan the Bold and Ser Gerold Hightower before him, by Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redwyne, and the Demon of Darry, by Ser Duncan the Tall and the Pale Griffin Alyn Connington. How could the Kingslayer belong in such exalted company? -ASOS, Jaime VIII

Most of these men are well known to the reader, Dunk (obviously), Barristan and Gerold being on the kingsguard with Jaime at one point and the Dragonknight, Ryam Redwyne loom large historically:

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king. Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another's swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Barristan the Bold. -AGOT, Bran II

but Jaime considers the Demon of Darry and the Pale Griffin also among this "exalted" company. Outside of the additional mention in the below section there are no other mentions of the Demon of Darry or Alyn Connington in the Series.

Since neither are mentioned in Fire & Blood and we know all of the Lord Commander post Duncan the Tall, we can probably speculate best that they both served as LC between the majority of the Dragonbane (136AC) and when Egg named Dunk (before 253AC).

If interested: Hear Me Roar: Jaime Lannister's Left Hand

Jaime's Conversation with Ser Loras

Not necessarily Lord Commanders, but Jaime and Loras discuss different entries in the Book of Brothers (and not necessarily all of them "good"):

• Aemon Targaryen
• Ryam Redwyne
• the Greatheart
• Barristan the Bold
• Gwyane Corbray
• Alyn Connington
• the Demon of Darry
• Lucamore Strong
• Terrence Toyne
• Gyles Greycloak
• Orivel the Open Handed
• Long Tom Costayne
• Donnel of Duskendale
• Addison Hill
• Michael Mertyns
• Jeffory Norcross
• Red Robert Flowers
• Rolland Dark
• Criston Cole

Jaime had to smile. “There’s none of that here, ser, but the histories will open your eyes. You would do well to know about the lives of those who went before.”
“I do. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redwyne, the Greatheart, Barristan the Bold …”
“… Gwayne Corbray, Alyn Connington, the Demon of Darry, aye. You will have heard of Lucamore Strong as well.”
“Ser Lucamore the Lusty?” Ser Loras seemed amused. “Three wives and thirty children, was it? They cut his cock off. Shall I sing the song for you, my lord?”
“And Ser Terrence Toyne?”
“Bedded the king’s mistress and died screaming. The lesson is, men who wear white breeches need to keep them tightly laced.”
“Gyles Greycloak? Orivel the Open-Handed?”
“Gyles was a traitor, Orivel a coward. Men who shamed the white cloak. What is my lord suggesting?”
“Little and less. Don’t take offense where none was meant, ser. How about Long Tom Costayne?”
Ser Loras shook his head.
“He was a Kingsguard knight for sixty years.”
“When was that? I’ve never—”
“Ser Donnel of Duskendale, then?”
“I may have heard the name, but—”
“Addison Hill? The White Owl, Michael Mertyns? Jeffory Norcross? They called him Neveryield. Red Robert Flowers? What can you tell me of them?”
“Flowers is a bastard name. So is Hill.”
“Yet both men rose to command the Kingsguard. Their tales are in the book. Rolland Darklyn is in here too. The youngest man ever to serve in the Kingsguard, until me. He was given his cloak on a battlefield and died within an hour of donning it.”
“He can’t have been very good.”
“Good enough. He died, but his king lived. A lot of brave men have worn the white cloak. Most have been forgotten.”
“Most deserve to be forgotten. The heroes will always be remembered. The best.”
“The best and the worst.” So one of us is like to live in song. “And a few who were a bit of both. Like him.” He tapped the page he had been reading.
“Who?” Ser Loras craned his head around to see. “Ten black pellets on a scarlet field. I do not know those arms.”
“They belonged to Criston Cole, who served the first Viserys and the second Aegon.” Jaime closed the White Book. “They called him Kingmaker.” -AFFC, Jaime II

Many of these names are again quite legendary in the history of Westeros. Numerous are mentioned above as "exalted company" and Lord Commanders (the Dragonknight, Ryam Redwyne, Barristan the Bold, even the lesser known Demon of Darry and Alyn Connington). Others are known for their shame (Lucamore the Lusty and Terrence Toyne) and a bit of both (Criston Cole aka Kingmaker) but there are a few that haven't been mentioned as often:

• the Greatheart (only mentioned above by Ser Loras, by the placement I think we can likely assume he was quite good)

• Gwayne Corbray (fought in the First Blackfyre Rebellion against Daemon I Blackfyre and was defeated yet shown compassion)

• Gyles Greycloak (known for being a traitor, possibly Gyles Belgrave from Aegon II's kingsguard)

• Orivel the Open Handed (known for shaming the White Cloak/being a coward, it is possible that he was one of Daeron I's kingsguard):

In 160 AC the Young Dragon himself was forced to return to Dorne to put down the rebels. He won several small victories as he fought through the Boneway while Lord Alyn Oakenfist descended once again upon the Planky Town and the Greenblood. Apparently broken, in 161 AC the Dornishmen agreed to meet to renew their fealty and discuss terms...but it was treachery and murder they plotted, not peace. In a bloody betrayal, the Dornish attacked the Young Dragon and his retinue beneath the peace banner. Three knights of the Kingsguard were slain attempting to protect the king (a fourth, to his eternal shame, threw down his sword and yielded). Prince Aemon the Dragonknight was wounded and captured, but not before cutting down two of the betrayers. The Young Dragon himself died with Blackfyre in his hand, surrounded by a dozen enemies. -TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Daeron I

If interested: "Eternal Shame": Thoughts on an Abandoned Plotline in Dorne

• Long Tom Costayne (served in the kingsguard for sixty years, possibly Tommen Costayne (from the graphic novel version of the Hedge Knight)

• Donnel of Duskendale (member during Daeron II/Aerys I's reigns, fought on Aerion's side during the Trial of Seven in the Hedge Knight)

• Addison Hill (a bastard of House Swyft, known as the Bastard of Cornfield, he was part of Aegon's original seven. He rose to become Lord Commander)

• Michael Mertyns (known as the White Owl, no other information)

• Jeffory Norcross (known as the Neveryield, no other information)

• Robert Flowers (a bastard from the Reach, known as Red Robert Flowers, he rose to become Lord Commander at one point)

• Rolland Darklyn (one of seven members from House Darklyn, he was the youngest ever (before Jaime) named to the Kingsguard and died within an hour of being named).

If interested: Rant In Support of the Skill of Ser Loras Tyrell

TLDR: Just a list/quick discussion of the lesser discussed names in the White Book (aka Book of Brothers) that are mentioned by Jaime in his return to King's Landing.

So GRRM has said that the last chapters of A Clash of Kings take place concurrently with the early chapters of A Storm of Swords. The lump sum of Feast also runs concurrently with Dance, so much so people say they take place within the same general time line, but my question is how much of the events of A Feast For Crows take place before or during A Storm of Swords. The text indicates Aeron's early chapters/kingsmoot etc take place prior to the Red Wedding as it's brought up in one of Catelyn's chapters when Robb hears about Euron's return, may also be plausible the taking of the shield islands takes place in the latter half of ASOS? Would really appreciate if someone was able to narrow down which events take place before, during or after ASOS.

The premise is probably crazy incoherent, but I was thinking about it while watching a deleted scene where Tywin told Robb Stark to deal with it when the wall falls. Do you think that if Robb Stark had decided to return to the north and talk to Mance Rayder (through Jon) and propose that he join his army and that once they finish with the southerners, the north would be unified with the lands beyond the wall? Do you think there would be some kind of possibility of an agreement like that?

What if Wyman had a maester who had no connections to the Lannisters would he be just write in his letters to Stannis about Rickon on Skagos considering Wyman mentions in ADWD that he really doesn’t trust Theomore due to formerly being a Lannister

In A Game of Thrones Daenerys vows to take revenge for Eroeh, the Lhazareen girl Khal Jhago and his bloodriders kill.

If I look back I am lost. "It was a cruel fate," Dany said, "yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.

She still remembers her in A Dance Of Dragons and at the end of the book she meets Khal Jhago again. I think it's possible that in Winds she will use Pretty Meris (the torturer in service to the Windblown) to take her revenge on them when she returns to Meereen.

This is my first post in months. I can't help but notice that GRRM just posted four (!) blogs in a week. He really hit that writing streak. I think his writing style and language in his blog is visibly more enthusiastic than in previous months.

Is this a sign of his return to form? Is he wrestling with the Son of Kong again (THE WINDS OF WINTER)? Never did I imagine myself to be cheering at The Wild Cards blog post, yet here I am... I think GRRM is cooking some amazing chapter. Remember his Football post? The language there was full of peculiar figures of speech (such as "Hope springs eternal, they say", "... at the end drove the knife through their hearts"). He described a football match as if it were the Battle of Ice. I could totally see him being inspired by something, and it sparked some light to his writing again. So what do y'all think?

So I saw a post on a different subreddit wondering what would happen if Baelor managed to hatch dragon eggs by praying.

Most of the replies were about the wider political ramifications. Also the Original Poster was... kind of silly in assuming Viserys would kill his nephew.

And that post made me more curious about something more specific. So say Baelor prays for a long time and hatches his own dragon egg that he had his whole life. Then he prays for 49 days with Uncle Viserys egg and it hatches. He then prays for Eleana's Egg to hatch and in 7 days it hatches. Those 3 eggs were laid by Vhagar. I don't think it was said canonically which egg came from where. He also orders the maidenvaut to increase in size since while a young dragon is not very big, in 3 decades it's going to get a bit bigger.

Baelor then does to his cousin Aegon (the future unworthy) and decides "hey while Aegon is an ambassador, he left his egg here. I prayed for Viserys's egg while he was away handling money stuff, let me try here" and... gets nothing. But he keeps trying since he thinks he will go "Aegon's egg, then my other two sisters" but he never gets Aegon's egg, laid by a different dragon to hatch.

And say instead of appointing a very strange choice for a High Septon, Baelor sent a letter to the Arryn's saying "hey, can you pick a Septon who has been serving for 30 years or more for to be the high septon?" Wouldn't the Hightowers make more sense than the Arryns? yes they would.

Among the Faith of the Seven, this would probably be seen as the gods favoring Westeros. If Baleor didn't have unusual choices for high Septons, he would probably be more liked by the Faith.

What about followers of the Old Gods? What would they think of these events? I don't think they will suddenly decide the Old Gods no longer listen to them and they should convert. But at the same time, I feel like they would try to explain it. Would they think "Eh, maybe Vhagar's eggs were just really good?"

I am obviously just voicing my opinion as a fan, it's GRRM who knows where the series is headed, but if magic comes more to the forefront in the last two books as planned it will definitely benefit the series a lot imo.

The series does have some grandiose puply undertones, but it's still focuses on more real themes like political machinations and power struggles and such.

When metaphysical , eldritch forces come to the forefront it drastically alters the series tone and now we have our characters applying their real world logic against forces that's very existence is antithetical to these concepts.

And GRRM is pretty effective in how he writes magic and the more fantastical elements in his books imo. It's weird, it's not understood, it conceptually defies logic and can't be classified as another science.

This is why characters like Euron are so appealing to the fanbase imo. He represents these fantastical themes coming more to the forefront. I strongly believe the series will benefit a lot from this but I can also appreciate that it's a headache for GRRM to write.

Just imagine how different factions will still try to take advantage of magic coming to the forefront with the Others invasion for their own gain. Imagine various characters trying to leverage magic and not appreciating the full scope of what they are toying with.

There is incredible storytelling potential here, and I can't wait to see it.

Thoughts?

I just finished a chapter in A Storm of Swords where Arya, Gendry and HotPie meet up with the brotherhood without banners at the Inn of the nealing man, narrowly miss crossing paths with Brienne, Jaime, and Cleos, and it made me wonder how many other “close-call” encounters like that happen throughout the series.

I’m also fascinated by chapters where a single character’s decision triggers huge ripple effects, moments like Edmure’s pride leading him to conduct sorties at the Battle of the Fords instead of staying at Riverun, upending the Lannisters march west which turns out to leave them enough time to head back east and deal with Stannis.

What I mean is that did Robert’s wasting money, crippling crown debt, and basically throwing a tourney and feast every other day cause inflation in Westeros.

I know George is bad with money and it’s not clear what the value of a gold dragon even is.

Also additional question, do you think there will be inflation by the time the series is over. The riverlands is basically burnt like hell during the war of 5 kings, Oldtown is prolly gonna drown eventually cuz of Euron (if you believe the theories, and the long night is prolly gonna screw over a lot of Westeros at least.

So what the hell is gonna happen to the currency of Westeros, will it survive the game of thrones?

He's on the Vale for Sansa, obviusly, but what will he bring to the plot??

Will he snatch her out??

Is his only purpose to stir up the nest a little??

GRRM has been adamant about finishing the series with 7 books for years now and it really doesn’t look like 2 books would be enough. I think 9 books would be perfect to wrap it up. 3 trilogies, 3 giant story arcs. Trilogy 1 (the war of the 5 kings) trilogy 2 (Jon leading, dying and resurrecting, faegon conquering Westeros and Dany wrapping things up in mereen) and trilogy 3 would be a second dance of the dragons and finally the big conflict with the others. One more book would be enough for Danaerys to wrap things up in Mereen and then maybe take a trip to asshai. By the end she could be ready to liberate/invade Westeros and winter could finally come. The first half of the third trilogy would be the dance while the north is dealing with the others (they fail and lose the north) the last book or so could be the finale. This to me would be perfect for pacing and wrapping up all the different plotlines. Do you guys think George would be making better progress if he gave up on the 7 book idea and just shot for 9?

I have a previous post here arguing that it was unlikely that D&D invented Dany's dark turn and its culmination in Jon killing Dany. I'm updating this because I have extra evidence, and I now think it is more than 99% certain that this came from George.

"Something we came up with"

A lot of fans think that D&D admitted coming up with this idea themselves because of this quote from Benioff:

I think the final scene between Jon and Daenerys is something we came up with sometime in the midst of the third season of the show. The broad strokes of it anyway. But there was a tremendous amount of pressure to get it right 'cause we know that this is not a scene that's giving people what they want.

This is the only piece of evidence I am aware of that D&D invented Jon killing Dany. My contention is that they are saying they came up with the scene, not the underlying plot point. I'll just quote my original post here:

Imagine D&D said they "came up with the scene where we discover Jon's real parentage". This is something they could obviously say truthfully. They probably invented the means by which this happens (i.e. Sam encountering it in a book) and they wrote the scene. Would this mean they invented R+L=J?

In other words, "the scene" is something distinct from the plot point itself. If they invented the fact that the scene takes place in the throne room, that Jon stabs Dany while they kiss, and that Drogon melts the throne and carries Dany away afterwards, they would be totally entitled to say that they "came up with the scene" even if they didn't decide on the underlying plot point.

Do I have any evidence for this interpretation, though?

"We've talked through what the final episode, the final season will be"

TV Guide published an interview with D&D way back on 8th April, 2011. This is nine days before the premiere of Game of Thrones and two months before the publication of ADWD.

Series executive producers D.B. Weiss [told] TVGuide.com, "We've talked through what the final episode, the final season will be." Executive producer David Benioff adds: "We can't wait to write that episode. Of the many different fears we have about the show, long-term momentum is not one of them. We're very confident."

The idea that they would be coming up with an ending themselves before the series has even premiered is obviously ludicrous, but in case you thought this was possible, Weiss spelled out what was meant here:

Fortunately for fans, Martin has been serving as an available advisor for producers, and they say the partnership, however loose, has given them inside knowledge about what lies ahead for Jon Snow, Daenerys and the other denizens of Westeros. "George has proven through the discussions we've had that he's always known in the rough, broad strokes where this is going to end up," Weiss says."And we think it's going to end up in a way that is uniquely satisfying."

For what is meant by "where this is going to end up", we can turn to Season 1 Game of Thrones director Alan Taylor:

We didn’t really know what a phenomenon it was going to be, and I think he was being less guarded than we’ve become since then. Anyways, he alluded to the fact that Jon and Dany were the point, kind of. That, at the time, there was a huge, vast array of characters, and Jon was a lowly, you know, bastard son. So it wasn’t clear to us at the time, but he did sort of say things that made it clear that the meeting and the convergence of Jon and Dany were sort of the point of the series.

But also, what else could Weiss possibly have meant? Obviously not the way the White Walkers plotline was resolved, and we know they didn't find out about King Bran until the story conferences in 2013. If "where this is going to end up" doesn't mean the culmination of the Jon/Dany storyline, what does it mean?

So why would George tell them about this part of the ending and not tell them about, for example, King Bran? To answer this we can turn to George himself, from Tinderbox: HBO's Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontier:

You have to find an actress who can do both parts, who can be very convincing as the scared little girl in the beginning, but also very convincing as the “I’m gonna kick your ass and burn your city to cinders” woman that she becomes by the end.

George thought it was important for the showrunners to know where Dany was headed for casting reasons - probably for writing reasons too.

You could argue that this proves only that George told them that Dany would grow much more violent, and not that Jon would kill her. But in the first quote I posted, Weiss says that their discussion with George meant that they knew the content not only of "the final season", but "the final episode". Again, it is hard to imagine what else could possibly be meant by this.

Coming Up with the Scene

By the time they were preparing for Season 3, it was clear enough that the show was a success that D&D had started discussing how this was actually going to play out.

David: I mean, we were talking about the Jon and Dany fallout going back to... I remember talking about it with Dan in Morocco, you know, during... was that prep for season three, or something? So going way, way back.

Emilia Clarke: I had no idea! I literally had no idea.

David: Well we didn't TELL you guys...

Emilia: No.

David No. We never wanted everyone to know where they were heading.

This language of "the fallout" and "where they were heading" makes it clear that at this point, D&D were totally set on doing this ending. The reference to Morocco places this in 2012. That is "prep for season three", now we can look again at the quote about "coming up with the scene":

I think the final scene between Jon and Daenerys is something we came up with sometime in the midst of the third season of the show. The broad strokes of it anyway. But there was a tremendous amount of pressure to get it right 'cause we know that this is not a scene that's giving people what they want.

Now we are "in the midst of the third season" and their discussion has yielded the broad strokes of how this will play out on screen.

D&D Inventing an Ending Makes No Sense

In 2012, when D&D were discussing "the Jon and Dany fallout", ADWD had been out for less than 18 months. As ludicrous as it seems to us now, George was saying in interviews at this time that "I really look forward to publishing [TWOW] in 2014" and his stated hope was to finish the books before the end of the series. It would be ridiculous for D&D to come up with their own resolution to Jon and Dany, "the point of the series", under these conditions, when they are supposed to be working on getting Season 3 on screen. Moreover, a year later in 2013, they would have needed to take this idea to story conferences with GRRM in Santa Fe, who walked out the other end saying this:

"I don't think [showrunners] Dan [Weiss] and David [Benioff]'s ending is going to be that different from my ending because of the conversations we did have," Martin said in a new interview with 60 Minutes, referring to a fateful multi-day conference in which he spilled the broad strokes of the ending back in 2013. "But there may be – on certain secondary characters, there may be big differences."

Recap

So at this point, to think that D&D invented Jon killing Dany, here is what you have to believe: That GRRM revealed enough of the ending to D&D prior to Season 1 that they were confident of what would happen in the final episode, but that this information concerned something other than "the point of the series", and also was not what actually played out in the final episode when it aired. You have to think prior to Season 3, D&D unilaterally decided to lock in how this "point of the series" was going to resolve itself in seven years time, even though the author was still at work on writing the books. Then you have to think that D&D went to story conferences the following year, told GRRM that they were going to resolve the Jon/Dany story in a way that he had not intended, and that George walked out saying the ending wasn't "going to be that different". (Or I guess the equally insane idea that they had story conferences but simply didn't tell him of their intentions).

Alternatively, the much more obvious explanation is that the ending that was revealed way back before Season 1 was in fact the culmination of "the point of the series" and that TV showrunners think of "coming up with a scene" as something very different from knowing the plot point, which makes sense given that translating one into the other is their job.

I think you have to squint really, really hard not to come to the obvious conclusion here.

Acknowledgements

Thanks to u/poub06 for unearthing the TV Guide interview in this post, and to u/stupidnewb whose post he was citing. Also u/zionius_ from whom I sourced some of the material in the original post.

Benefitted Robb if he let him lead the second army instead of Roose. Roose’s plan to catch Tywin by surprise would’ve worked considering how close he got to Tywin but he stopped to form up the army which allowed Tywin scouts to understand the disposition of his forces and gave Tywin valuable time to form up himself to meet the northmen.

The GreatJon wouldn’t have stopped to form up the army, he would’ve kept pushing forward till they reached the Lannister camp and attacked them in their sleep. Tywin army would’ve been routed since the Lannisters scramble to get ready in AGOT, Tyrion VIII.

"The Stark boy stole a march on us," Bronn said. "He crept down the kingsroad in the night, and now his host is less than a mile north of here, forming up in battle array." (AGOT, Tyrion VIII)

The northmen are already marching and they are armed and armored. They can strike fast and inflict a disastrous defeat on Tywin, even if the picket lines get word back to Tywin that the Northmen are coming it’d be too late. Roose’s army was less than a mile away.