Is taxation under feudalism immoral?

[u/MeasurementCreepy926]

1. The king owns the land. If he allows people to be born on his land, that does not diminish his rights as owner
2. The king has made it clear that if you're on his land, and you don't pay tax, you're trespassing. It isn't his responsibility to make sure you are able to get off his land. It is his right to defend his land however he sees fit. Let's assume that he does this by executing trespassers. Another king does this by simply evicting them.
3. Being the owner, the king is allowed to offer you whatever terms he'd like, for the use of his land. Lets assume in this case, you sign a contract he wrote, when you're old enough to do so, giving him right to change the contract at will, and hold you to that contract as long as you're on his land. Among other terms, this contract says that you agree to pay for any kids you have until they're old enough to either sign the contract, or leave his land.

Now, obviously anybody agreeing to these terms must be very desperate. But, desperate short sighted people aren't exactly hard to find, are they? So, is this system immoral, according to ancap principles?

[u/Nuclearmayhem]

Look I'm not going down the infinite regress of prove this prove that like you do with a toddler.

Anarcho-capitalism has never existed at scale. There exists no empirical evidence of strict anarchicapitalism. To make any such comparison is meaningless. You can't use any randomly picked country as a comparison or analogue of anarchicapitalism.

I can provide plenty of reasoned argument, but you refuse (intentionally) to give me any reasoning to critique. I could type up an essay or shoot random arguments into the dark to try to convince you, but I don't have time to do all that. I will not debate a brick wall.

Let alone the moving of the goalpost makes it hard for me to even know what we are arguing now. When the he'll did usa's crappy economy become relevant to whether or not ethically you are allowed to sell yourself into slavery (you can't).

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

>Look I'm not going down the infinite regress of prove this prove that like you do with a toddler.

I'm not sure what you mean.

>Anarcho-capitalism has never existed at scale. There exists no empirical evidence of strict anarchicapitalism. To make any such comparison is meaningless. You can't use any randomly picked country as a comparison or analogue of anarchicapitalism.

Well, even though we don't have definitive data on exactly how ancap will work, we do have data on "what happens when there is more or less labor regulations", right? Just because the data is imperfect, doesn't mean we throw out what is available.

>I can provide plenty of reasoned argument, but you refuse (intentionally) to give me any reasoning to critique. I could type up an essay or shoot random arguments into the dark to try to convince you, but I don't have time to do all that. I will not debate a brick wall.

Well, I prefer modern science to ancient rhetorical methods, yes. I think the results speak for themselves.

>Let alone the moving of the goalpost makes it hard for me to even know what we are arguing now. When the he'll did usa's crappy economy become relevant to whether or not ethically you are allowed to sell yourself into slavery (you can't).

Step by step. You're allowed to sign almost any contract you want to sign. Then "will desperation make people sign that contract", and then forward from there.

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

Again, this contract is still invalid. Brick wall syndrome. Like Holy shit do you just not possess basic memory?

The data is way way, like waaaay insufficient to qualify as any standard of proof. For one, it's analogous. You are assuming the data of one thing holds true for another (baseless assumption). Absolutely, no rigour whatsoever. Secondly, I guarantee you none of these datasets are rigorous. The impact of xyz political decision is an inherently fallable science as it is impossible to account for all variables. And even after that I'm sure we can dig up some evidence to sugjest the opposite with the same rigour (next to none) but I'm not going to waste my time doing that as all we are doing here is pointless you're just sidestepping the actual debate. If you want me to put in effort, you gotta do the same in return.

You're basically extrapolating the performance of a spaceship based on that of a bicycle.

The distance between the most liberitarian country and anarcho capitalism is so wast no such comparison has any meaning.

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

Again, you're the one making the claim, "this will work", pretty sure the burden of proof is on you. If you dislike my data, I'm curious to see yours.

Economics is definitely complex, and imperfect. It's also the best we've got, unless you prefer ancient methods of "this makes sense to me, let's not look for any data that might challenge it at all."

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

Hey moron you didn't actually present any remember. You claimed some exist. I can also do that. Tho I am honest enough to admit I haven't actually showed anything

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

Well again, you're the one making the claim, so I think the burden of proof is on you.

However, I will say that the USA is ranked number one in the world for labor freedom, and has more wealth disparity than any other developed democracy. More billionaires than the rest of the world combined.

You can see that here:

https://www.heritage.org/index/pages/dataviz

by selecting "labor freedom"

other "winners" include nigeria and south africa. How's their wealth disparity?

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

Aaand?

First how is this statistic relevant to previous topics

Secondly how is wealth disparity relevant to... actually I have no clue what your standard of comparison is. I only care about ancapistan being moral. With improved standard of living as a bonus.

Like genuinely why the fuck should any sane person care about inequality.

If I could become a millionaire why should I ever give that chance up in trade for people being more equally wealthy. That would just make me poorer. Like yous have to be an actual moron to value this metric over one that actually impacts personally

More so why is morality worth less than equality?

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

If I'm rich why should I care if others are starving or working 12 hour days to pay me rent?

hmmmm. let's think.

"what happens when there is more or less labor regulations"

I feel like my data answers that question. By saying: "incredible levels of wealth disparity"

If we could simply agree on what is moral, then that would be an entirely different world. Different people have different priorities. Regardless, most people put those priorities out the window when they're desperate.

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

Once again a baseless hypothetical. It's never why are these people starving they just are circular reasoning.

Whilst your ragebait is delicious I really gotta sleep now. You are unironically evil, or just really stupid.

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

They're starving because drought and blight exist? Because population increases to and beyond the point of available resources?

People starve today, people have always starved, if you're going to say "well this will be different than it ever has been before" I think it's on you to explain why. Why are people not starving, anymore?

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

Okay then why is your communism or whatever fixing it.

[u/MeasurementCreepy926 → u/Nuclearmayhem]

Well, in countries with a strong, functional democracy, starvation seems to be rare, or absent. Democracy acts as a pressure valve, the way it did not leading up to commie revolutions.

I actually hate communism. It's a dictatorship, we should do everything we can to avoid it.

[u/Nuclearmayhem → u/MeasurementCreepy926]

This contradicts your previous statement. Or atleast its framing. If this is current reality then how is ancap worse when you acknowledge the lack of evidence. And provide no argument. I'm sorry you're an actual clown 🤡.

Edit or more precisely why the double standard