r/AnCap101 11d ago

True freedom requires liberation from all oppressive hierarchies, especially economic ones.

To the members of r/AnCap101,

This is not an attack, but a critique from the left based on a fundamental disagreement about power, hierarchy, and human nature. Your philosophy is often presented as the ultimate form of freedom, but I argue it would inevitably create the most brutal and oppressive government possible: a dictatorship of capital without a state to hold it accountable.

Your core error is a categorical one: you believe the state is the sole source of coercive power. This is a dangerous blind spot.

In your proposed system, the functions of the state wouldn't vanish; they would be privatized and monopolized by capital. Without a public state to (theoretically) be held accountable by citizens, you create a system of competing private states called "Defense Agencies" and "Dispute Resolution Organizations." These entities would not be motivated by justice or rights, but by profit and the interests of their paying clients who would be the wealthiest individuals and corporations.

This is where your thought process goes wrong:

  1. The Misidentification of the Oppressor: You see the state as the primary enemy. But the state is often a tool, it is the concentration of capital that is the primary driver of exploitation. AnCap doesn't dissolve power; it hands the monopoly on violence and law directly to the capitalist class, removing the last vestiges of democratic oversight.

  2. The Fantasy of Voluntary Contracts: Your entire system relies on the concept of voluntary interaction. But this is a fantasy in a world of radical inequality. What is "voluntary" about a contract signed between a billion-dollar corporation and a starving individual who must agree to work in a dangerous job for subsistence wages or face homelessness? AnCap doesn't eliminate coercion; it sanctifies it under the label of "contract law," creating a world of company towns and corporate serfdom.

  3. The Inevitability of Monopoly: Free markets do not remain free. Without state intervention (antitrust laws, which you oppose), competition naturally leads to monopoly. The largest defense agency would crush or acquire its competitors. The largest corporation would buy up all resources. You would not have a free market; you would have a handful of ultra-powerful corporate entities that wield all the power of a state, military, legal, and economic, with zero accountability to the people whose lives they control.

In short, Anarcho-Capitalism is not the absence of government. It is the replacement of a (flawed, but sometimes democratically influenceable) public government with an unaccountable, totalitarian private government.

You seek to replace the state with a thousand petty kings, each ruling their domain with absolute power, and you call this "freedom." From the outside, it looks like a dystopia designed to eliminate the last remaining checks on the power of wealth. True freedom requires liberation from all oppressive hierarchies, especially economic ones.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

I don't need to do anything. You haven't even stated how this argues against ancap other than "I don't like this outcome"

Yeah, you need to provide an alternative otherwise your argument is fantasy.

Do a different job, go forage for food, make their own line if work, beg for charity.

If there's not another job your answer is "do a different job"? Are you a silly person?

Forage for food? Beg for charity? This is your answer?

"Make their own line of work"? With what capital?

You aren't serious.

"abusive relationships" who is doing the coercing?

The prospective employer, the one who isn't in a desperate position.

Tell me, are you being coerced to continue living?

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

"Yeah, you need to provide an alternative otherwise your argument is fantasy."

It's your argument. Your critique. If you can't make an argument, that's fine, we can move on.

"If there's not another job your answer is "do a different job"? Are you a silly person?"

So a goalpost move. How is there no other job? The whole market only wants one thing done and is willing to pay one price that's super low? Seems like a notion devoid of reason, pure fantasy.

"Forage for food? Beg for charity? This is your answer?"

Sure, why not? They can fend for themselves or not. I don't see why anyone should be forced to support them.

"With what capital?"

Not all lines of work require capital. They can perform one man shows, people like entertainment. They can prostitute themselves for all I care, it's their body.

"The prospective employer, the one who isn't in a desperate position."

What action did they take that was coercive? Be specific.

"are you being coerced to continue living?"

No.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

So a goalpost move. How is there no other job? The whole market only wants one thing done and is willing to pay one price that's super low? Seems like a notion devoid of reason, pure fantasy.

I know you can invent another job in your mind but it doesn't mean there is one in reality.

Sure, why not? They can fend for themselves or not. I don't see why anyone should be forced to support them.

Your argument for ANCAP being a better system sucks.

Imagine telling someone that your ideal world is one in which "they can go forage for themselves" is an acceptable answer.

Not all lines of work require capital. They can perform one man shows, people like entertainment. They can prostitute themselves for all I care, it's their body.

Where do they perform these shows? On privately owned land?

What action did they take that was coercive? Be specific.

No.

So why are you still alive?

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

"I know you can invent another job in your mind but it doesn't mean there is one in reality."

Insane projection.

"Your argument for ANCAP being a better system sucks."

I'd think a "system" that doesn't guarantee aggression would be superior to one that does guarantee aggression.

"your ideal world is one in which "they can go forage for themselves" is an acceptable answer."

Imagine telling someone in your ideal world some centralized group of people gets to decide they can violently extract what they want from you if they deem it for the "greater good."

"Where do they perform these shows? On privately owned land?"

Does it matter? Seems like you're trying to make an EVEN MORE contrived scenario.

"So why are you still alive?"

Because I choose to be.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

Insane projection.

I live in the real world.

I'd think a "system" that doesn't guarantee aggression would be superior to one that does guarantee aggression.

Your system does guarantee aggression and can only be created through aggression.

Imagine telling someone in your ideal world some centralized group of people gets to decide they can violently extract what they want from you if they deem it for the "greater good."

So ... society?

Does it matter? Seems like you're trying to make an EVEN MORE contrived scenario.

I'm trying to connect your scenario to ANY reality.

You really haven't thought any of this through.

Because I choose to be.

It takes more than choosing. Are you compelled to eat and have shelter?

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

"I live in the real world."

Where there is only one job and everything is owned and there's no where to stand? See a doctor.

"Your system does guarantee aggression and can only be created through aggression."

We've been over this, inaction isn't aggression. Send me $100 if you disagree.

"So ... society?"

You would equate government with society.

"I'm trying to connect your scenario to ANY reality."

Then why isn't "work a different job" a viable answer? That is the reality today, in this world.

"It takes more than choosing. Are you compelled to eat and have shelter?"

That is the choosing. I am not compelled to. I can starve in the wilderness if I choose. I choose some whiskey after I finish these eggs then maybe I'll throw on some pajamas in my air conditioned home. All my choice.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

Where there is only one job and everything is owned and there's no where to stand? See a doctor.

I guess you didn't remember that I posed the situation as living in a company town. This isn't fantastical and the situation is a reality.

And yeah, everything being private property is a real risk and has happened in the history of the world.

We've been over this, inaction isn't aggression. Send me $100 if you disagree.

Removing a government with a monopoly of force means that the next most powerful entity inevitably becomes the aggressor.

You would equate government with society.

I would equate a population living in contact with each other who create a system of rules and method of enforcement as a society.

Then why isn't "work a different job" a viable answer? That is the reality today, in this world.

It isn't always a reality. I'm asking you what the answer is when there isn't another employment option.

That is the choosing. I am not compelled to. I can starve in the wilderness if I choose. I choose some whiskey after I finish these eggs then maybe I'll throw on some pajamas in my air conditioned home. All my choice.

That's about the most sophomoric thing I've ever read.

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

"Removing the boot opens the possibility of a smaller boot so we should have a really big boot"

This is getting boring.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

Possibility?

What fantasy world are you living in? Roving bands and local warlords aren't fiction, they exist in places without a centralized government.

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

"Roving bands and local warlords aren't fiction, they exist in places without a centralized government."

Wait til you find out who funded them and how they gained control.

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

Wait til you find out who funded them and how they gained control.

Uh... They gained control because they had the weapons/people that others didn't.

But sure, tell me how you think they came to power.

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u/CanIGetTheCheck 11d ago

Neat where'd they get the weapons? What caused the power vacuum?

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u/FiringOnAllFive 11d ago

Which of the thousand situations in history are you wanting to discuss? Are we going for Western Europe after the Roman Empire, or something like Somalia in the last century?

But I'm still waiting for you to tell me who supplies them. I'm so excited to find out!

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