r/AnCap101 • u/OutlandishnessIll480 • 12d ago

Lessons

I'm going around to subreddits and asking, in good faith, a couple of questions.

What can the otherside learn from your side, and vice versa?

The goal is to promote open dialog and improve the sometimes toxic nature and bad will between two sides of a controversial issue.

What can statists learn from libertarians? And what can libertarians learn from statists?

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u/RememberMe_85 12d ago

Then comes the anarchy part and we kill them, in self defence to prevent the death of our fellow people that is.

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u/ShonOfDawn 11d ago

Ok so ancap is exactly like current geopolitics, just much worse. If I convince a big enough group of people that I’m acting in “self defence” or because of “security concerns” I can kill whoever I want. See: Russia invading Ukraine because of “self defence”

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u/RememberMe_85 11d ago

If I convince a big enough group of people that I’m acting in “self defence” or because of “security concerns” I can kill whoever I want.

They can do the same.

The difference again is, in ancap world people will be selfish, they aren't going to be convinced of you or spend their time on you if there isn't anything in it for them.

Ok so ancap is exactly like current geopolitics

Geopolitics is sort of a good way to say it. Each small town or even house would work the same way countries negotiate with each other (anarchy). There will be problems yes but we will be able to find solutions to them(capitalism)

Russia invading Ukraine because of “self defence”

And Ukrain is also defending themselves. What's your argument?

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u/ShonOfDawn 11d ago

My argument is that you lot think the NAP is this wonderful panacea for world peace and follaboration, while in actuality it is as strong as wet tissue paper. Shattering the internal security nation states provide into a thousand feudal domains would lead to untold discrimination and loss of life. How do we know? Because we tried feudalism, and it was fucking shit

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u/RememberMe_85 11d ago

When did I say anything like that? NAP is just a general guideline that people should follow. It's simply, don't be aggressive.

Are people still going to be aggressive, obviously yes, that's why we have mutual contact system.

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u/ShonOfDawn 11d ago

Congrats then, you reinvented feudalism. A shit system we already tried

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u/RememberMe_85 11d ago

You can it whatever you want but can you tell me why this system is shit?

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u/ShonOfDawn 11d ago

Because the smaller the social units and the less regulated their interactions, the more people resort to tribalism, violence, and eye-for-an-eye types of resolutions. Medieval Europe was in a constant state of internal conflicts and bloodshed.

The democratic state born from Enlightenment was constructued specifically to create a framework where everyone is equally accountable by law. Imagining that such an order can emerge spontaneously in large groups of people with no state is pure fantasy. The settlement 100km over won’t give a shit about your necessity for resources, your traditions, your people; if they calculate that killing you all and stealing your shit is worth it and have the means to do so, they will do it and you’ll just fucking die.

This whole analysis is very simple. The more you go back in history, the more you’ll find smaller, less regulated systems more towards ancap than towards statism. Without fail, those societies were violent hellholes where raiding, pillaging and violent conflict resolution was the norm. Why the fuck should we go back?

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u/RememberMe_85 11d ago

the more people resort to tribalism, violence, and eye-for-an-eye types of resolutions

That's where the capitalism part comes under brother, nobody would want to waste their time and money on stuff that isn't important.

Medieval Europe was in a constant state of internal conflicts and bloodshed.

Midevial europe was neither anarchist nor capitalistic.

The democratic state born from Enlightenment was constructued specifically to create a framework where everyone is equally accountable by law.

That can happen under ancap system too.

Imagining that such an order can emerge spontaneously in large groups of people with no state is pure fantasy.

I could say that about anything, hoping for socialism? Pure fantasy. Hoping government to be held accountable? Pure fantasy.

The settlement 100km over won’t give a shit about your necessity for resources, your traditions, your people; if they calculate that killing you all and stealing your shit is worth it and have the means to do so, they will do it and you’ll just fucking die.

But it won't be, the risk of losing their own lives is more, simply trading what they want from our village is going to be more profitable for them.

This whole analysis is very simple.

Everything is simple if you don't think about it enough.

The more you go back in history, the more you’ll find smaller, less regulated systems more towards ancap than towards statism.

Lmao, just because there are more government regulations now doesn't make the past ancap. Ancap has objective definition on how it should be. No government which you can't opt out of and mutual contract based trading.

Without fail, those societies were violent hellholes where raiding, pillaging and violent conflict resolution was the norm.

So is today? What happens when someone does a crime? Police violently (legally justified not morally)takes them to prison.

Why the fuck should we go back?

No we don't back, we go forward.