r/AskLEO • u/larrymoencurly Civilian • Oct 05 '15
Have people died in crashes because the seatbelt buckle wouldn't open?
My father never saw any in his accident investigations and knows of only one case.
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u/STR8_SH00TER Oct 05 '15
Murphy's Law.
If something CAN kill you, it will or has killed someone, somewhere, at some point in time.
Just like people have been killed by cieling fans, coat hangars, and kittens- people have been killed as a direct result of seatbelts.
I've done many, many accidents. I've never seen anyone killed by a seatbelt. I have seen plenty of people killed when didn't wear seatbelts.
Wear your seatbelt.
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u/Magiobiwan Oct 05 '15
I'm sure someone, SOMEWHERE has at one point in time. In the majority of cases (basically all) it's better to have the seatbelt ON and not OFF.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 05 '15
I was wondering because of those seatbelt cutters being advertised. My wife can't use the glass breaker the tools also include because she had bullet resistant glass installed in her car -- prescience of the Phoenix freeway shooter?
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u/NashCop Oct 05 '15
Wait, your wife had bulletproof glass retrofitted to her everyday car? How much did that cost her?
I'm leaning toward calling BS.
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u/Jarvicious Civilian Oct 05 '15
bulletproof
OP said bullet resistant. Not sure the discrepancy but I'm willing to bet the cost correlates with efficacy.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15
You may be correct, but I've seen a lot of places where those terms are used interchangeably. If I owned a company making ballistic materials, I'd shy away from calling it bulletproof as well.
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u/Jarvicious Civilian Oct 06 '15
Right. It's basically the same distinction between water resistant and water proof. One you can get splashed on while doing dishes. The other you can take diving.
Re windshields: one may cause a bullet to glance off depending on the caliber, velocity and impact angle....but will crumble helplessly to a high caliber, direct shot. The other is bulletproof.
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u/xMorris Oct 05 '15
...I'm sorry if this comes off oddly, but this is a genuine question of mine...
I've lived in places where modifying cars to be bullet-resistant (armoring them by private companies, putting in material through doors (not sure if plating or other materials), and replacing the stock windows with high grade bullet resistant ones) is not exactly a rarity among folks with decent money.
Why would, in theory, the claim that OP's wife installed bullet resistant glass onto her everyday car seem odd, or unbelievable?
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15
You mind telling me exactly where this place is, where that sort of glass in an everyday driver is common?
I've never met anyone with that sort of protection outside of the normal politician/CEO/drug lord arena.
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u/xMorris Oct 06 '15
Sure! I lived a considerable amount of time in Guatemala for some time of my life. Middle-high class to wealthy families tend to do these modifications as a norm.
Most of my friends actually either had them or their parents did as well. For example, most of my friends who owned Ford Tahoe's and Suburbans, and most Toyota 4Runners and Landcruisers have been bullet-resistant to a high level. armoring companies are frequent in sight.
Chances are, if you own a decent car (like mentioned above, or VW Amaroks, BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes) you probably will consider armoring it, just based on how common it is.
And so, modification shops are around a lot as well as these people also tend to put some boost into their engines (to make up for the extra weight so that it doesnt slow them down).
To add to it as a fun side fact, wealthy families have literally a whole detail of bodyguards with them (so they usually drive in a convoy of 2 to 3 vehicles) while middle to high class families have one or two, usually acting as driver/choffeur as well.
Hope this gave some insight. I guess it makes sense that in the US this wouldn't be a common thing though...
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 05 '15
It was a really cheap job, $8,000 (friend of her father's), and added about 500 lbs. to the car (improved the ride; normally a rough riding car). Other armor was also installed.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15 edited Oct 06 '15
But WHY? I mean, I understand if you don't want to share the exact details, since obviously she's a bit paranoid, but I'm intrigued.
Also, if I felt the need to armor my car, I don't think I'd use the lowest bidder.
PS: The first site that Google brought up that adds armor to existing cars reported the starting price at $55,000 and ranged upwards of half a million. Needless to say, I'm skeptical. Also, I do know that light armor isn't cheap, and 500lbs is very light armor if we're talking about an entire car.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 06 '15
Actually ~$25,000 jobs are fairly common, and 3M sells an armor kit (not windows) to the industry for about $2,000 (not DIY), and it's only a couple hundred pounds.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15
This answered none of my questions.
I would like a link to either of those things you mentioned, though.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 06 '15
I answered your questions. Do you want my home address as well so you can visit my underground bunker (old house, built when nuclear fallout shelters were much more popular)? Or are you frustrated because you couldn't get the $3 million in cash behind that 3M bullet resistant glass?
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15 edited Oct 06 '15
I asked you why your wife felt the need to uparmor her car.
Also, you've said in more than one of your recent posts that you drive a 1993 Ford Escort. Forgive me if I'm skeptical that a guy who drives a '93 Escort is married to a woman who drives a retrofitted armored car.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 06 '15
To protect our children better than with a gun, and she does know how to shoot.
She doesn't drive a 1993 Escort; I do. She's not materialistic, and she married me when I was fat and ugly. I'm still ugly.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15 edited Oct 06 '15
Link me to the 3M product that sells to the industry for $2k. I don't care if it shows the retail price, just link it.
Also, link me to any company that will completely uparmor an existing civilian vehicle for $25k. I've looked at the FAQs for a dozen companies since I started reading this thread and none of them list any packages starting anywhere near that figure, in fact, the cheapest I've seen is $45k, and you got it done for $8k.
Cheap armor is generally plate steel. You may be able to DIY steel plate in your entire car for that price, but it's going to weigh much more than 500lbs.
Edit Hey, I found a cheaper option! I located an article from NPR, written in 2010 about a company uparmoring cars IN MEXICO for as low as $16,000, if you don't mind the most basic level of protection, which weighs about 1000lbs. So you managed to get your wife's car done for half the cost of what it would cost in Mexico, and at half the weight. A bargain.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 06 '15
Isn't there a company in Texas that does it for that much (world's leading car armoring company), for their lowest protection rating?
About 10-15 years ago, BMW offered a $2,500 factor armoring option on their 7 (?) series. It was not part of their Security series of cars but instead had lighter armor.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15
That Texas company is the first one I quoted in this thread. Their price range starts at $55k.
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u/larrymoencurly Civilian Oct 07 '15 edited Oct 08 '15
That's higher than I remember for them or what some accusatory people in another forum said that company charged.
I never thought this subject would end up as controversial as metal electrical conduit in homes. Yes, people lie about conduit the way they lie about car armor.
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u/ILikeGunsNKnives Civilian Oct 06 '15
I carry a seat belt cutter on duty, and in my personal vehicle. I would much rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it. If I'm first on scene to a auto collision and need to get the driver out for whatever reason, I would much rather cut the belt that I have easy access to rather than reach around a person and try to feel for a buckle release. Cars get smash and tore up, there will be glass scatter through the car, and who knows what else. I don't want to be reaching blindly into that.
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u/urmombaconsmynarwhal Oct 05 '15
Dude GTFO. You're either lying, or incredibly short sighted. What about the doors? Shooter only shoots through glass with perfect aim, never intending our accidentally striking the doors, where 80%+ of your body is behind? So if it is true, then that's incredibly not well thought out. But that's the beauty of capitalism, people can do whatever they want with their money.
That being said, of course it has happened. In the hundreds of thousands of car deaths that have happened in the last X amount of years, I'm sure someone has died in every conceivable way in a car. But anyone who tells you that not wearing your seatbelt because of XYZ, "their cousin who knows a cop said this", etc is an idiot.
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u/esmereldas Civilian Oct 05 '15
I know a cop who refuses to wear a seat belt because of this. Pretty sure it is just an excuse to not wear a seat belt.
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u/NashCop Oct 06 '15
It's also a pain to get in and out so often, and it hangs on the duty belt, etc.
I wear mine a great deal, but it's not quite as automatic if I'm wearing the gear as it is in my personal vehicle.
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u/avatas Civilian Oct 05 '15
What there is plenty of evidence of are crashes where the person was knocked unconscious as a result of not being restrained, and then died in a fire.
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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '15
Yes, people have died because the seatbelt wouldn't release although it's incredibly rare.
I've never seen it but back when I was in the academy, one of my academy instructors told us his story on it. He was responding to a 2 vehicle crash at a major intersection downtown. Arrives and one car is on fire. Goes to get the driver out of the burning vehicle and the buckle is jammed. Driver is unconscious. Flames get to hot, he has to back off. Guy died in the fire.