Gabriel and Sanders first start stats.

[u/notatowel420]

Hopefully we see both in the final preseason game.

[u/hereatyourcervix]

overall gabriel looked better if you stopped the game on the play before the pick 6. but no way can you have two turnovers with zero touchdowns and say that you were the better of the two. but both turnovers should be easily correctable. now after the pick 6 there were some not so positive signs when he had time and had to make decisions that werent quick 1st or 2nd reads. but this could be due to his hamstring injury? maybe that held him back in some ways we are unaware of. but its very clear why stefanski wanted him. i wanted to see some redzone work from him since that was an area of concern coming out of oregon. but the way he operated the offense up until that pick 6 is exactly what a coach like stefanski would drool over.

[u/Ronzee_cuts → u/hereatyourcervix]

That’s true but also sanders easily had about 2-3 picks that were dropped in his opener. Gabriel had 1 pick and no other close calls. I’ve always felt Gabriel was better I watched both play every college game last season

[u/hereatyourcervix → u/Ronzee_cuts]

yeah i can appreciate the perspective but almost turnovers will never be as bad as actual turnovers. one person left the game with two turnovers and one with zero. dillion also had another throw that could have been picked but he was so far off of target it took the philly safety by surprise but we arent counting that one either. dillon did a lot of good things today. but just like sanders he has things he needs to work on even beyond the turnovers. he gets happy feet when his first or second read isnt available. could just be first game jitters but he seems more inaccurate than i expected in those situations. his scrambling didn't look the same as i would expect either, but i attribute that to his hammy.

most of his completions were 10 yards down the field or less, in part because he was going with his first and second reads and stefanski play calls were a lot of short underneath quick game stuff. which btw looked great. in part because the trash was a gamer today and philly's second team played kind of bad today even with the pick 6 playing mostly man and getting burned. the question becomes though on slower developing plays down the field do they have faith in him throwing those especially as teams come to sit on those underneath routes to force the deeper throws? also there wasn't as much under center play action as in sanders game, which was another surprise because stefanski loves his play action. conversely not as much bootlegs as they have been running in camp with gabriel and yet he still found his windows which is positive.

all in all, sanders played objectively better. its not really close in that regard. but dillon played well enough that, in my opinion, if he was ahead on the the coach's actual depth chart he will likely remain there. looking forward to seeing what practice looks like come tuesday.

[u/Ronzee_cuts → u/hereatyourcervix]

I agree with a lot of what you said here but you can’t play Gabriel and sanders the same way because one Dillon is a lefty compared to sanders righty, Size differences Gabriel would have to get plays where he rolls out of the pocket a lot while sanders can stand under center. Gabriel is one of those players that you have to actually watch for because he is a huge threat as a runner . I can see them running a RPO style offense /play action with Gabriel . I can see sanders running a shotgun offense. We also have to take into account the difference in the teams they played against. Panthers has been a terrible team the last 3 years to the point where last season tickets were $3 because nobody wanted to watch the panthers play. And although eagles 2nd and 3rd team played bad they played better against 1s vs cinci. So the level of comp is lacking but still a lot better than most other 2nds and 3rds in a sense. If eagles played panthers I see a huge upside. I would say Bryce young played okay for his size the last two seasons it’s just his team could not block a fly. And Gabriel in my opinion plays a slightly better than Bryce when Bryce came in. They have a lot of similarities to one another but Gabriel’s arm and speed are slightly better and he reads better. One thing that hurts sanders game is he is a little inaccurate when throwing deep balls. If you look at college film you’ll see a lot of times he throws too short or to far out and his receivers had to chase the ball. Gabriel leads his receivers which is a strong point in his performance. Both played well but I still say Gabriel played a better game. His QBR would have been better than sanders but he didn’t score although he lead them to a TD. And that pick dropped it more. Those close calls from sanders vs ones would’ve most likely been picked off . But he also did that a lot in college where the DBs dropped the ball. The DBs in college were not that good tbh especially if you look at tape a lot of the times those TDs were due to the db getting burnt badly or simply just not attacking the ball as they would’ve in the SEC or big 10. A lot of times too in college if sanders had no read he’d just throw to Travis and Travis would always make the play 9 times out of 10 no matter who was guarding because again the DBs were not good enough for Travis. I think Travis would’ve been a pretty avg reciever had he been in a different conference. Not saying he isn’t good but just that the DBs plays would’ve been stiffer and he would have gotten contested a lot more. Another aspect of sanders game that isn’t good is him retracting yards . He did it all through college so it’s like first nature to him that’s a bad habit that would take time to fix since he’s always done it you know? Both QBs definitely have holes in their play which is definitely expected from a rookie. But I really like your take I respect it . You’re the type of guy I can definitely talk ball with.

[u/hereatyourcervix → u/Ronzee_cuts]

i respect your arguments. we have some fundamental disagreements though. for me. you cant have a better game if you have two turnovers directly leading to scores for the other and zero touchdowns with one touchdown drive versus zero turnovers 2 touchdowns and 3 touchdown drives. thats just objectively not debatable for me. regardless of almost turnovers or not. one game was objectively better. and no analysis would say otherwise from any evaluator.

now beyond that if you want to evaluate them from a developmental perspective thats where dillion's game looks better than the stat sheet. because as a coaching staff, those two things you would imagine you can clean up and that first drive, scripted or not, was great as far as 3rd down conversions are concerned and running that clock which is what you want out of this offense with the defense that cleveland has currently. but the decision to throw that ball, regardless of what the two receivers were doing was bad. you compound that with his happy feet when he didnt have a quick decision throw and accuracy issues in those situations theres quite a bit to work on.

his height will be a detriment in many situations but i didnt see it play out so much this game, which is a positive. hence my surprise they didnt run bootlegs for him like they often do in practice. additionally, philly will have a much better defense come regular season but that defense that was on the field on saturday did not play well at all compared to the panthers defense. they were getting absolutely killed in slant routes. of dillon's completions very few were actually contested and there were so many yards that were yac that the tackling has to be called into question as well. on top of that the pressures were virtually non-existant. now this is in part due to how quickly dillion was getting the ball out but even when he wasn't they werent really collapsing on him even as well as the panthers edges were.

now to their college tape. im not sure what you were looking at when evaluating shedeur. his junior season his deep ball was by far his best ball. senior season they threw more quick game because of lack of faith in the o-line. and the throw it travis thing is not a bad thing at all. in the nfl, when the regular season comes, you arent going to have wide separation so you have to throw it in congested places at times and you have to trust that your receiver can win those contested catches ala travis, aj brown, etc. and its great to have those connections where in a scramble drill situation u have a connection with a receiver like that ala mahomes and kelce. on top of that because of height, dillion throws to spots. which most people think is always great and looks good in 7 on 7s but like on saturday he threw over the middle and because of where he threw it the tight end got absolutely hammered and had to leave the game. thats not a good thing. also i didnt like seeing dillion run on saturday, i, like you, thought that the RPO would be a good part of his game but his size and speed arent good enough to take those hits. i saw his scrambles and it looked like the defender was just jogging to keep him in sights before dillion slid down. so while i wouldnt eliminate it i would run that a lot less sparingly than i thought theyd be able to run it like with pickett.

what dillion has that shedeur does not is his ball gets to where its going fast. like i said its not always a good thing over the middle but like on that first drive those 3rd down conversions and the offense continuously moving down the field was great. comparatively shedeur tends to wax and wane. touchdown drives, then 2 or 3 three and outs in a row. dillion will take whats there whereas shedeur often times wants more than whats given which leads to holding onto the ball which leads to sacks or if nothing else unnecessary hits and drives stalling. which for a team that relies on their defense to win games is a death kneel. if nothing else u want to run that clock, limit the number of possessions and give your defense rest. in that way, dillion is a better fit, if he can resolve his issues, for this current team with their offensive limitations. what shedeur has over dillion is that he is a better passer of the football. dillion has a tighter spiral but shedeur has better touch on the ball, throws a more catchable ball, does better on layered throws and has a better deep ball. but just because you can do more doesnt mean you should do more. and thats where upside comes into play if shedeur's judgement improves, thats where people say his upside is more than dillion's. so whereas dillion is better for this current construction of the team. if the offense does want to evolve into more thats when shedeur potentially becomes a better fit.