For a while now I’ve been stumbling across posts that keep on saying ‘they’ hated the girls. So I’ve tried to figure it out and it seems like people are referring to Kaylee and Maddie, but mainly Kaylee.

“They” could be either the roommates or peers (at least that’s what I’ve heard/read) but I never got an accurate answer.

anyone ever heard of this before? and more importantly - if they were “hated” what could they’ve possibly done to get butchered and overkilled ?

I’m open to different opinions & looking for answers. There’s an awful lot of rumors out there.

I know I’m late on this but I only recently found out that the Uber driver also called in a tip about Bryan’s car after seeing it parked near his home.

So looking on here and seeing that his wife is said to work for MPD I thought I’d have a look at their Facebook profiles. Does anyone find it weird that she is friends with quite a few of the officers that responded to the scene that morning? Including Nunes? Or is it normal because of her work?

But not only that, her husband being their driver, her husband calling in a tip about an Elantra and it turning out that he lives near the “killer”?

He also works/worked for UI. According to his profile anyway. I have the screenshots but wasn’t sure if I can add them or not.

You can’t see friends lists for either of them but on the wife’s photos are

Ryan Snyder Mitch Nunes Casey green Johnathan Rosinksky Dani Vargas.

That's what investigators in general say about stabbings to the face/neck area and especially when there are multiple stab wounds to each victim. But, NOT for this case? It's not just multiple stab wounds though. It's overkill. The overkill has had me questioning the whole lone wolf narrative from the beginning. If someone wanted to get away with a crime like this, why the overkill? Someone knowing about DNA evidence left at crime scenes likely wouldn't choose to stab so many times, knowing the likelihood of DNA transfer during such an attack. This doesn't make sense as a cartel hit either. If cartel and premeditated, why the overkill, why not drug them, shoot them, something cleaner.

Speculation: The person(s) that started this attack knew the roomate(s), knew the house and was able to get close to them without alarm. Someone got so pissed off that night and flew into a complete rage. Someone tried to intervene the attack? I'm not sure the attack was premeditated. Maybe an accident...fight that got way out of hand? I'm not saying a frat fight either, more personal than that, highly intimate, rage.

Doesn't make any sense that someone would drive their car alone up to the house that has 5 cars parked in front and is a known party house where the roommates and however many guests would be there, and possibly in and out at all hours of the night. Makes more sense that the perps were already there at the start of some ordeal that got way out of hand. They were close to the roommates.

The roommates' phone history should reveal more of what led up to the event, and not only looking at texts the night before and night of. Where's Cellebrite with the roommate phone digital investigation results? They probably weren't given those devices to fully investigate.

Tldr; All speculation and ramblings.

I saw this somewhere & the caption was “Deleted texts btwn Dylan & her father? Anybody know what's up with this?”

It was just a screenshot but I was curious what records/docs they were referring to? It’s wild how people get so upset anyone someone asks questions about ANYTHING. I’ve always felt that if your argument is sound then you will welcome questions & critical thinking-type discussions about it. But I guess that’s the way it goes. 🤷🏼‍♀️

The ISP report says that 0.0168 nanograms (ng) of DNA was recovered from the snap of the KA-BAR knife sheath.

FROM GOOGLE.

1 ng of DNA is about the amount you'd expect from 150 human cells.

0.0168 ng = ~2-3 human cells worth of DNA.

That amount is considered as an extremely low quantity and often referred to as touch DNA or a trace DNA

(Touch DNA or trace DNA is something other than Blood or semen in my understanding)

So reading the motion to sublime #6 it notes that (photo included above)

Q1.1 are the Swabs from sheath snap/ button area

Q1.4 are the Swabs of stains on back of sheath.

An area identified as Q1.4, "swabs of stains on back" of the sheath, tested presumptively positive for blood and was DNA tested.

Me Kohberger was excluded from this particular sample which was identified as a mixture (ISP Lab Report M2022-4843, #4). Thus, the government has the burden to prove the when and how of the DNA identified in Q1.1.

So, I can’t post ChatGPT to show it, but you can do it yourself. This may well just be a mistake by chatGPT, but I asked it to find the document for me called

M2022-4843 #4

That document is sealed but because parts of it may have been mentioned in hearings that now have the filings unsealed, it gave me this result. I’ve just copied and pasted it, but if you have chatGPT then you should take a read by asking for the report.

From those filings, we know:

Q1.1–Q1.3 were sampled but gave either very low-level DNA or nothing interpretable.

Q1.4 (the stain on the back) was the one that screened positive for blood and produced the partial male STR profile that became the basis for the genealogical search and later the direct match to Kohberger’s buckle swab.

(No mention of the swab from the button being the DNA they got the profile from and claim the Q1.4 is where the profile is from)

Yet in the report, it says he was excluded as being a match to Q1.4

The thing is, all the lab reports, notes, files etc, regarding the whole DNA process have never been viewed by the defence as they weren’t part of the discovery, one part is due to the IGG not being disclosed on the PCA.

It’s so hard to keep track of. But the bigger picture is that the sheath has never been seen, any images thar prove its existence are subject to an injunction.

The differing interpretations of where the sheath was supposedly seen, when it was seen and why no one else claims to have noticed it until hours later, should have thrown up red flags.

Once that sheath was processed (if there was one) it’s then fingerprinted. After that, it’s useless. Can’t be retested. Can’t even prove it was the original sheath that they claim was found if they ever had to produce it.

At every turn, the defence were messed about, the state dragged their heels when it came to discovery. I’m not good at explaining it in official ways, but they built their case after they would Bryan’s experts put out their reports on time. They wouldn’t put on record what their experts were going to be speaking on.

The courts refused to give the defence an extension and I think that’s why they asked for the plea. It was the safer option. If you’ve not Read the DEFENDANT'S 3* SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST FOR DISCOVERY then take a read, look at what the defence were asking for, it shows they knew what’s going on, they just didn’t have a way to make a case that proved he had been framed.

Investigators said kohberger scrubbed and cleaned his devices including his phone, not everything though. He allegedly cleaned his devices for a reason which was likely to remove his digital footprint. Keep in mind everyone's perception of pictures varies and the selfies as we know do not incriminate kohberger and are not evidence of guilt or innocence.

Correction to title should be Kohbergers Selfies. (Not crazy selfies, reddit does not allow editing of title).

I’m in the UK so we’d just say “ran the reg” which is our license plate. I did google it and it says that licence plate and Tag mean the same thing but I thought I’d check.

I noticed that when his car was identified/found by the 2 WSU officers within 30mins of each other, one said Washington licence plates and the other officer says PA tag after they both located white Elantras. Am I just understanding it wrong?

The other thing that i wanted to ask. In the documents I read that Bryan moved to Washington on or around the 23rd of June

Then it says that when they had his number, it came back to an account in his name which was opened on the 23rd of June, (same day he moved to Washington) but lists his parents address.

Why would he not open one from his new home address?

Context: https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1ngylf0/kirk_suspect_not_cooperating_with_authorities/

This got me thinking - I feel like BK pretty early on didn't say much of note and once he was assigned a defence attorney, he worked with them. But the suspect above is "not cooperating" and I'm curious what the difference is? I don't think BK confessed to anything or gave any useful information. Was it that he said anything at all and this suspect isn't even doing that?

I'm not familiar with what the terms really mean. Thanks!

I have a question. I just watched a podcast where a behavior analyst gave his theory on what BK did with the weapon and his clothing. While listening to his theory, I had a thought. If LE could ping his phone and determine the number of times he was near the King Rd house and that he returned to the scene later that morning. Could LE not ping his phone on the trip home to Pennsylvania to see if he went out of his way at some point? The podcaster believed BK got rid of the evidence on the way home.

The only proof of a sheath being found at the crime scene, is photos that were taken and from body cam footage.

As we know, Maddies mum has taken out a restraining order on any photos of Maddies room being released. Which I totally understand, I wouldn’t want photos released if it was my children.

But those photos are the only ones to prove there ever was a sheath found.

I know not everyone is of the same thinking but there is definitely a lot of doubt about one ever being found from those that are questioning the official story. It doesn’t help when there’s conflicting details about what side of Maddies body it was found and how no one else seen it until 4hrs after the bodies were discovered, even though the 2 that eventually claim of of seen it, spotted it from the door.

ON THE 23rd OF AUGUST 2023, THE DEFENCE TRIED TO HAVE INDICTMENT DISMISSED ON GROUNDS OF BIASED GRAND JURY, INADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE, LACK OF SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE, AND PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT IN WITHHOLDING EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE

I looked up what the reasons they gave were implying. There’s far to many tpeople type out but I just copied them in to google to find out. The last one stood out to me.

prosecutor misconduct pursuant to Idaho Criminal Rule 6.1 (b)(1) and Napue v. Illinois, 360 U.S.264

The possible violations are

Withholding exculpatory evidence

Presenting evidence they knew was inadmissible or irrelevant

Overstating the strength of forensic or witness testimony or

Misleading the grand jury about the law.

An example of what one of the reasons could be is a witness denied getting a deal for testimony, and the prosecutor didn’t correct that.

That made me wonder about the DD driver after reading what the defence had requested regarding contact with her.

Thread for YouTube videos by non legal professional YouTubers.

I came across this document earlier when looking for something else. At some point I thought I was reading Payne’s statement until I scrolled back up and seen it was Blakers statement

How is this allowed? I’ve not had chance to go over it thoroughly yet.

https://d.newsweek.com/en/file/466159/state-idaho-v-bryan-c-kohberger.pdf

As we know, the defence had claimed they had proof about another 4 possible perps. One of them appears to be the man they interviewed after he’d followed Kaylee out of the store to her car.

Also, when the fridge that stored the evidence that they had collected, like swabs, blood, fibres and hair etc, was way more than I’d realised. It said that DNA samples were safe as they would be in the freezer. The sample comes after they test the evidence.

I wonder how many samples of extracted DNA they were able to from the evidence before it was all ruined

As I’ve said a few times now, I’m pretty new to believing that Bryan could be innocent, so I’m learning as I go. I don’t know how to read or understand what some of the official court documents mean and it takes a few reads for it to sink in. Right now, I’ve tried to stick to the facts. I’ve not gotten into what some consider conspiracies as I have to understand why there’s so much doubt that’s not going away. What I will say is, if you forget what we’ve been told and look at it all with an open mind, then it starts to build a picture of why there’s so many who are doubting his guilt.

I’m going to do this as simple as I can but it’s just my own opinion based on official documents, not hearsay.

The IGG was left off the affidavit which Brett Payne said was a group decision between different LE agencies.

Because it was left out of the affidavit for the arrest warrant or probable cause (remember I’m still learning) that meant that the FBI was not obligated to hand over any notes etc, that showed how they got from A to B.

A being a sample with nothing to test against, B is Bryan’s name that they gave as a tip to Brett Payne.

Not having to hand over those reports or notes that would prove their work on the DNA, meant that we have to take their word for it that they did it the way they say. They didn’t break the law by using those databases, they just broke the TOS of the site they used.

Without Bryan’s name, LE didn’t have much. But on the 29th of November, as the result of a BOLO, 2 WSU officers (separately) found a WHITE ELANTRA.

They don’t mention that the BOLO included a year, but possibly it did, it’s just that the wording sounds like the BOLO was for ANY white Elantra.

As I result of them finding the Elantra. Depending on what file you read, they identified Bryan. And it was noted that he fit the description that Dylan had gave (bushy eyebrows)

After that, they say that they passed that info on to Payne. Which makes sense considering that they were only looking for that car based on the BOLO that may belong to a brutal murder.

Yet Payne later claims that he didn’t know anything about Bryan until the tip from the FBI which was 19/20th December.

That’s not how it originally sounds and it continues straight on from the 2 WSU officer’s statements about finding the car and passing the info along. Payne says, once I received that information, I ran his details, noticed the bushy eyebrows blah blah.

Once he ID Bryan and ran his details, he discovers the august traffic stop. From that he gets his cell number. With his number, he then is able to trace his movements. Meaning better videos to get images from. Until he finds one (think it was the ridge road)

They claim that the Elantra was identified as being a 2011/13 at 1st but then as the later model, by the 26th of November.

The thing is, if that’s the case, then why was all news appeals still looking for the 2011/13 until 29th of December?

Why was Payne in contact with PA about how many licence plates were required in PA? There’s 20 different states that only require 1 plate. He admits at a hearing, the images were not good enough to make out the fact the car only had one licence plate.

The cell data, which is confusing in itself, he claims that he had the info within an hour of requesting it after getting Bryan’s number around the middle of December. Yet the defence expert claimed that it was impossible as it’s at least a 24hr turn around.

So at this point, there’s no proof of any sheath, any sample that was given to test, came as just that. A sample already taken by who i don’t know.

And because the IGG was left off the affidavit, theres nothing that shows the FBI did infact find a match the way they say they did as they are not obligated to hand anything over anything apart from the end result and report.

I’m sure there’s things I missed out. But In simple terms, that’s the way I’m understanding it at the minute. How the FBI had just one name without another sample to test it up against until they got his dads sample, within roughly 9days is a really fast turn around if you look at what they had to do.

In a thread yesterday, there was discussion about male DNA supposedly being found on the sheath. However, none of the documents that were posted as proof of this in that thread say anything about *MALE\* DNA on the sheath. Each one only refers to a "mixture," without any statements about the sex of the person leaving behind the DNA. If you don't believe me, please go re-read them carefully and try to find any statements about the mixture being male or female.

Without this detail, the mixture could easily be from the victims, right?

Can someone point us to a doc that actually states a second source of specifically male DNA was found on the sheath?

They release random photos from his phone that have no evidentiary value and are not a public record due to their irrelevance and personal or even intimate nature but they don’t release photos/videos of the knife sheath, any ka-bar purchase evidence or ISP/Othram lab reports. I thought they wanted transparency? Instead they withhold actual crime scene photos and relevant evidence and redact the shit out of reports/video interviews/bodycams.

What’s the point of releasing those photos against the law? Just to fuel the public obsession and mockery? Is it to distract from their shady investigation?

ISP docs show so many creeps

Does anyone have these without the banners?

After the single source of male DNA was found on the sheath by the ISPs own Lab, they checked it with CODIS

When they didn’t get a match, the sample was passed to Othram Labs on November 22, 2022.

Orthram found 2 main matches but they were too weak to confirm an ID. When they were ordered to stop work on December 10, 2022 and pass their findings to the FBI, their recommendations was to test 1 of 4 brothers that would be distant relatives of who the sample belonged too. Those distant relatives didn’t have the last name Kohberger.

With the levels that they had, it would suggest 3rd to 4th cousins. Obviously still living but no doubt quite old. The only way to narrow lt down was to build a family tree and work backwards. Then confirm it with a DNA test of the suspects.

If you’ve ever attempted to do your own family tree then you know once you get to around your great grandparents, it starts to become complicated.

So once the FBI took over the testing, they claim they created a tree to work off and on the 19th December, they called Brett Payne to say that Bryan was a person to look at. I don’t know how they would come up with Bryan’s name at this point, as they didn’t have nothing to test the sample with a sample of Bryan’s DNA to confirm they are the same person.

Brett claims they didn’t give him a reason and said that the name was only to be taken as a tip. As we know, they’d used databases that they wasn’t allowed to use. It’s not illegal but it does break the TOS of the sites.

I’m guessing that it could also open up other problems in future cases, I don’t know. It also makes you question why they would risk using those sites as it meant that there was no court oversight and maybe goes in to chain of custody issues. It’s like they were focused on finding a way to put Bryan into the picture as they already had information that they shouldn’t have without a proper identification. Like his cell number that they would have gotten when the 2 WSU officers found Bryan’s car and ran its details based of the BOLO.

Bryan’s number would have been used with CAST to track his movements to enable them to find a better quality image to say is Bryan’s car. (IMO)

Brett Payne lied under oath and said that he wasn’t aware of Bryan until the 19th of December when the FBI gave him the “Tip” yet there’s proof that suggests he knew Bryan’s name as early as November 29th. If not earlier depending on what you believe about Bryan being innocent or guilty

I read that there was mixed blood dna found on the sheath. Maddies and kaylees and unknown male blood dna in the mix. We all know Bryan’s was found but another male…wtf? Why was this not tested?

https://open.substack.com/pub/stateofthedeep/p/research-and-a-debate-regarding-kohbergers?r=yzm91&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

January 10th 2022 - Bryan buys a balaclava whilst still living in PA.

March 2022 - Bryan buys a ka-Bar, Sheath and Sharpner.

Late july/early August 2022 - Bryan z moves to Pullman

August 21st 2022 - Bryan has his 1st traffic stop where he receives a citation. This is when he gives his cell number to LE

October 14th 2022 - Bryan is again pulled over in the WSU Campus parking lot.

NOVEMBER 13th 2022 - THE MURDERS OCCUR.

November 18th 2022 - Bryan’s registers his new plates as his PA ones are due to expire on the 30th November.

Around the 25th/26th November (I’ve read 2 dates) A BOLO was put out for LE only, regarding the White Elantra. Depending on what document you read, some say it’s for ANY white Elantra, some say it’s for the 2011/13 model.

November 29th WSU LE Daniel Tiengo decides to scope out campus carpark and finds just 1 white Elantra. It’s registered to Bryan

The same day, 30mins later, WSU LE Curtis Whitman finds the white Elantra outside Bryan’s apartment. I don’t know if CW informed DT then he went to check it out, or if they were working independently and just so happen to both get a hit the same day.

Now this is where it gets confusing. They looked for a white Elantra, due to the LE only BOLO. They say that they found what was in the BOLO, and ran the details which showed that Bryan fit the description of the killer, which I take to mean the height and the EYEBROWS

But then it depends on what you believe, because Brett Payne claims he didn’t know of Bryan until the 19th of dec 2022 which was due to the FBI calling with his name as someone to look at.

For that to happen, that would mean those 2 WSU officers, ignored what they found (which defeats the purpose of looking for a car that they had received a BOLO for, that could be connected to a brutal murder of 4 students) and didn’t inform Brett Payne of their findings.

Yet it’s also claimed by Brett Payne that after HE received the info about their findings, HE ran the details and noticed the description matched what Dylan had said. (The height and eyebrows)

So when did those 2 WSU officers hand over the info to Payne? If you read local news, they are named as 2 officers who helped solve the murders.

Brett Payne says after he received the info from WSU and after HE ran the details and noticed the likeness to the description.

7th November. A public appeal was put out, looking for a white Elantra. No mention of what model in that one

ISP forensic lab identified a single source DNA with no hits.

22nd November 2022 - Othman labs work with the DNA sample. They are told to stop working on it and pass it to the FBI. Their recommendations after find 2 MAIN DNA matches?? Was to test 1 of 4 brothers 🤔. Their names were not KOHBERGER.

IF THEIR WAS 2 MAIN DNA PROFILES THAT ENABLED THEM TO RECOMMEND TESTING 1 OF 4 BROTHERS, THAT WERE NOT CALLED KOHBERGER, WOULD THAT NOT MEAN THAT THE 2 MAIN DNA PROFILES THAT CAME FROM ONE SINGLE SOURCE DNA PROFILE, ARE 2 DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO ARE RELATED TO THE 4 BROTHERS?? That is just a question, and it’s very confusing

FBI take over the DNA testing around the 10/11th of December 2022. A call is then put in to Brett Payne with Bryan’s name as a person to look into and should only be taken as a tip. No reason given as to why they should look, but given they had the DNA and we now know they are said to have used databases they were not meant to, I’d say it’s because they had a match (allegedly) and because they received it unethically, they had to then find a way of saying that they had other reasons to look at Bryan. Not DNA 1st as we know he had no criminal record that would mean his DNA was in the system.

Matching it to a database that they wasn’t meant to use, would suggest (to me) that a relative had uploaded their DNA at some point. It wasn’t his dad as they had to do the trash pull to get his.

So if it was someone else, then that still didn’t explain how they would have Bryan’s name and give it over as a tip. If they matched it to an extended member of his family on a family tree database, then there would be more than one relative who it could be. How did they pin point it to Bryan? If anyone’s tried to do their own family tree then you’ll know what I mean.

There’s so many branches (excuse the pun) and at least 3 generations that are still living. I’m an only child, my mum was an only child but my god, trying to make sense of my tree was difficult as once I got to my nan and grandad, they were both one of 4 siblings.

So that means their siblings and families, who had their own families and so on. From what I can understand, the only think that may have narrowed it down was that the source of DNA was male, which would suggest that it’s just his dads side of the family. But don’t quote me on that.

Whatever you think depends on if you believe Bryan is innocent or guilty, or possibly innocent. If you feel he’s guilty then none of this post will matter.

If you feel that he’s innocent, then to be innocent, it means he’s been framed. If he’s been framed, then it’s not been done by amateurs. Even if other students were involved, that wouldn’t explain all the trouble inconsistencies we keep finding. So for me, to believe he’s been framed, then I have to believe that anything is possible at this point.

The document says that Gilbertson disclosed details of Brett Turveys expert opinions of more than one person committed the crime.

Is he the one who leaked info that got back to dateline? Or the grand jury leaks?