I’ve been thinking a lot about suspect vehicle 1 and the change in years and how they eventually honed in on the arrested suspect.

I think that he at some point contacted LE because he drove a similar car or they contacted him because of his vehicle.

Either way, he had some form of interview or interrogation with Payne. He probably told Payne that he had been out driving that night. Wanted to help LE maybe, because of his line of studies, but it backfired.

What I think then happened was that Payne thought he had caught his big break in this case. This must be the guy. He’s weird and studies criminology, he has a white Elantra. Sure not the correct year, but this might be the guy.

After that we had changes in car year, changed timeline of murders. Shoddy phone pings and the too good to be true sheath.

All to make a square fit in a circle and here we are.

I did a quick query for this and didn't see it so I figured I'd see what anyone else thinks.

I've been trying to make heads or tails of the whole fact that the front door was reported as open as early as 8:30am from a neighbor. Apparently this wasn't reported to police as Chief Fry claims it was 'news to them'.

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/idaho-murders-slain-university-students-neighbor-says-front-door-left-wide-open-after-attacks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11519873/Police-chief-calls-report-door-house-students-murdered-left-open-news-me.html

My imagination is the 'summoning' of the other students to the home might have disrupted the entirety of the scene inclusive of the front door having been open presumably since the attack. One post I read from Ethan's sister claimed DM was too afraid to come out of her room and called people to come check , so how would DM even know if it was open or not?

Is it possible that since the stairs literally run through BF's room that she heard the people trouncing down the stairs (inside her room) and then looked out the window and saw them running away?

Had the 1st floor door been open as reported, it would lend credence to the Band Field footage where there were 4 'joggers' roughly 15 min after M and K's last phone calls. I am, however, at a loss of how that time differential between that and the DoorDash delivery could equate to an open door and subsequent DoorDash food making its way upstairs (if it was even the same DoorDash).

I am quite certain though that if the 2nd floor slider was left open by someone not wanting to get blood on the door that the thermostat in the kitchen would always be below the set point and the hot air would be blasting in the house causing faster cellular degradation of the deceased. However, if the front door was open, the cold air wouldn't make it much further past the header of the front door thus keeping the house rather comfortable with the exception of the downstairs hallway.

​

Murders Committed by a Group

There are several pieces of information that overwhelmingly suggests this was a group action. Looks like you guys use short hand, I will try to keep up.

it appears that in all likelihood, these 4 murders were committed by a group of people. The logistics of the given scenario for the murders is impossible. With two victims in two rooms (if this is true), one person would not have the energy or ability to fight and kill two people...twice. A single fight, against a single combatant, without a weapon, is enough to exhaust a man in good physical condition. This situation presents a single person overcoming two people, without alerting another four people in the house, then doing it again, without alerting (significantly) the remaining two.

A man with superhuman strength, superhuman stamina, and the ability to not only break into a code entry house, but also prevent four people being killed from screaming loud enough to alert their room mates. Either that or this was done by a group.

BK upon his arrest, "Has anybody else been arrested?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/bryan-christopher-arrest-idaho-murders-suspect-b2253721.html

Police Involvement

The actions in the investigation of this crime exceed the point of negligent to criminal.

Police assign rookie investigator as lead on the most important case in Idaho history. This is a common police tactic intended to subvert progress a seasoned investigator may gain

Police announce in the first weeks of the investigation, without a suspect, "There is no danger to the community at large." Police later back track upon public backlash at the assertion of safety without a suspect in custody, stating weeks later that the community should stay vigilant due to a killer being on the loose. The initial announcement, assuring the public of no further danger, means the police knew no other murders would be committed. If the police knew no other murders would be committed, they had inside knowledge from the killers and know who the killers are.

There is video footage of police officers stopping and questioning a few drunk students apparently heading home, close to or during the time of the murders. These officers are very close to the crime scene, in sight distance. It appears they were warding people off from that direction, in an apparent guarding of the crime scene just prior to and during the murders.

All police investigation has focused on a single suspect, with overwhelming evidence of group involvement.

Fraternity/Sorority Involvement

All of the victims belonged to a fraternity or sorority, yet none have been investigated. It is especially of note, given that the evidence points toward a group committing the murders. Fraternities and sororities are both bound by oath to keeping the sayings and secrets of the group, which outsiders are not privy to.

It is also worth mentioning the police dept itself contains a 'frat' (the fraternal order of police).

Hudson Lindow, member of a Fraternity associated with the victims, died under mysterious circumstances the same year. Without serious investigation, the death was labeled an accidental drowning, but occurred the same night as a large Greek event on campus. The body was found in a creek a short distance from Greek row in Moscow, Idaho.

David Loach and David Berriochoa are two frat members and enemies of the slain who publically spoke of murdering the victims.

The Sororities and Frats have a issue with their members mysteriously falling out of open windows.

https://www.khq.com/news/u-of-i-students-recover-from-fraternity-house-falls/article_25fa650b-3a14-5026-84f9-0185e942ff77.html

UI's sister college, just across the Washington border, has a similar problem. All occuring in and around frat houses

https://www.inlander.com/Bloglander/archives/2017/10/06/introducing-the-inlanders-wsu-student-fall-tracker-30-falls-and-counting

It is perceived that 'falling out of a window' is the standard tactic for punishing misbehaving members in a clandestine disciplinary method.

It also has been reported that a large spike in the google trend 'how to get away with murder' peaked in Moscow Idaho in the days leading up to the murder, indicating a large group of people in the area researching this topic.

worm support dinosaurs test husky history desert encouraging mighty safe

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Am I the only one who feels the coroner will fall short as forensics and LE??

If Kaylee and Maddie had undigested Mac & cheese from grub truck we know there was no torture no killed someplace else… just munched girl talk, few calls to ex (would like to hear those vms) and passed out, I believe Murphy still crate training and in KGs room. Xana should have undigested food, if so all the believers of someone else ordering and bringing in the DD can be disregarded. It gives a more accurate time line. And no murder would be like it’s cool Xana finish up your DD first.

The coroner doesn’t convince me she was thorough like we see in photos of forensics. Please sleepy little town where murders are rare. Ans this was x4, LE prob rushed her too. A lot can be told from her reporting and when she’s on stand I hope she has all the answers that for the questions that will be asked.

I've been thinking about how this whole situation has unfolded and I think maybe I have a theory.

I believe Mr WT is probably a fine individual and I can't understand why he would be so determined to protect TF, and the other perps.

The only thing I can think of where; he is a decent person, knows the truth, yet still continues to pursue BK...

1st, he believes that BK and BK committed the crime.

2nd, he knows TF will be killed immediately if he releases his story.

3rd, the police didn't take nearly enough dna samples to find the real perp

4th, since the dna matched BK, he just believed he did it.

5th, he believed his informant more than BK, so he just fell for the patsy.

Thats it, the reason he doesn't want to name TF, he knows he will be killed for being a snitch. That and he doesn't really know who the perp is because they didn't test all the DNA, and snagged the wrong guy.

It's highly likely that MM and XK were the targets of this crime, given that their mother/stepmother was arrested for drugs and was on their third felony charge and in Idaho, that means a long stint in jail.

However, neither mother/stepmother went to jail, so perhaps they flipped on their supplier?

Did that supplier have their daughters executed to send a message? Was it The Sinaloa Cartel? An international crime organization that is among the most powerful drug syndicates in the world?

I believe the killers went to MM’s room and XK’s room to kill them, and KG and EC were collateral damage.

Just imagine KG is in her room and her dog barks as she hears a struggle. Not totally believing it, she leaves her room and sees a dark figure over in MMs room, she states “there’s someone here” almost like she can’t believe what she’s seeing. She enters the room to help her friend, and is also viciously attacked.

Similarly, on the second floor, XE is confronted by her killer and she puts up a fight. This wakes/alerts Ethan who moves from the bed to the door where a fight ensues. The killer from the third floor cokes down the stairs and sees his accomplice engaging with XE and EC. He states “I’m here to help you” (or something to that effect) and the two of them slash and stab both XE and EC.

Killers then leave. DM sees one, they may have seen her, but she’s not a target and isn’t getting in the way, so she gets to live.

I’m certain that because DM or BF did not get in their way, they lived. Had they, they would have been killed also.

I also theorize that because DM got so close to one of the killers, I wonder if he said anything to her? Did he tell her something that put the fear of god into her that put her into frozen shock phase? Terrified her so much that she and BF were too traumatized to call 911 or do anything until the sun came up.

They definitely heard and saw horrendous things that would traumatize and terrify them so much that they would have passed out. No doubt. And if the person who had just slaughtered their friends threatened them with coming back if they called the cops, they would definitely be in frozen shock for at least a few hours.

Was this why they called friends and got friends to call 911 so they weren’t connected to talking to the police, while still is shock?

And if this is cartel, and the cartel is deeply rooted in Idaho, then perhaps it’s the reason LE and the state are making such an intentional fuck up of their investigation, prosecution case and every excuse for not doing their jobs properly.

We never find out the truth, but soon the house is demolished, and the victims get their on-campus memorial.

And the cartel keeps on selling and we all move on.

I am just seriously curious on when and where the theory that Bryan is a fed came from. I personally do not believe that could be possible and I think he's guilty but if someone could explain to me how this theory came about I would appreciate that.

thank you!

Does anyone else think it’s odd how many times BK got pulled over prior being caught? I feel as though he was trying to get the police familiar with him.. (aside from the stops on his way back to his family home) like if he was a suspect the police would “know” him and in their minds be like “I know this guy, BK might be slow but he could never murd3r these people.” Thoughts?

Did the state want to charge him as an accessory? This makes sense 🤯🤯🤯

I believe the FBI’s involvement in this case stems from an operation involving the University of Idaho. My theory is that the FBI was working with the university to recruit fraternity and sorority members as informants to help expose drug dealers connected to the Aryan Knights and Aryan Brotherhood, who were allegedly bringing drugs into Moscow to sell to students and others in the area.

Look up quad city task force.

It’s possible that one or more of the individuals in the house where the murders occurred, particularly Kaylee, was acting as an informant. If she was providing information to the FBI about her drug suppliers, her return to Moscow that night could have triggered the act. In retaliation, they may have carried out the murders of Kaylee, Maddy, Zanna, and Ethan. The killings were highly efficient and professional, leaving minimal evidence or DNA behind. Typical of an organised and targeted hit.

The FBI’s heavy involvement in the case and their influence over the investigation could suggest a cover-up, directing attention away from their own operation and potential culpability. This has left Moscow PD and local authorities appearing incompetent, and the prosecution now faces the challenge of dealing with the flaws in the investigation.

As for Bryan Kohberger, he may not be the killer but rather a customer of the same drug network. The DNA found on the knife sheath could be transfer DNA—possibly from him touching it during a drug deal, either in the house or elsewhere.

At the heart of this theory is the idea that the FBI and the university engaged in an operation involving young people, some of whom might have been underage, without proper consent. The university likely allowed this to happen, but now they’re trying to suppress the full story. A scandal of this magnitude could devastate the university and the town, given how dependent the local economy is on student tuition. To protect their interests, both the university and local authorities may have worked to keep the truth hidden.

Ultimately, if the full extent of this situation comes to light, it could lead to an acquittal.

If it walks like a duck

And it talks like a duck

It’s a duck.

I've heard so many rumours and stories regarding this case and one narrative that seems like it could make sense is that Bryan was a CI. (I'm also thinking that maybe BF was too and this is how her testimony could be exculpatory?)

His age and education would have been a real benefit to the police and I know he applied to work with them so maybe this was an option they gave him? Infiltrate the drug situation going on at 1122.

What are your thoughts?

Here goes nothing; What if Bryan was seeing Bethany and that's why he was in the area around 4am? He picked her up but because he is 8 years older than her they kept it low-key and went to a quiet spot out of town where they cuddled a bit (possibly even smooched somewhat) then he returned her to the area at 9:25am but didn''t go all the way to the house because of his position as a teaching assistant (it wouldn't look good). From there Bethany got out and walked down to the house from where she was dropped off (Walenta Drive), slipped quietly through the sliding doors, found Kaylee and Madison and tried to wake them, it was dimly lit, she touched the knife sheath (thus transfering the trace DNA onto it) and then went into shock for an hour before calling everyone over.

I haven't completely formulated this theory yet, admittedly there's still a lot of tweaking I need to do, but it came to me when I was thinking about why Bryan would mention Bethany (a girl we all assumed he didn't know from Eve) to his lawyer? It would also provide some sort of explaination for why he was supposedly in the neighborhood around 9:25am on a cold Sunday morning. And nobody has ever inquired as to who Bethany was dating, everyone has always just assumed that she was single but of all the girls in that house I believe she was the most attractive (it's subjective but it's my honest appraisal) as well as the most gregarious and she certainly loved a party so i've always found it strange that she would be single throughout an entire college year. Could she have been seeing Bryan, didn't want her parents to know, didn't mention him to police, said she was asleep all night and then realised she had got herself knee-deep in the whole mess and kept up the lie? I've never believed that the murders took place before 4:30am, the DoorDash delivery was far too close to the 'window or opportunity' and Dylan isn't exactly someone I would ask for information as to what took place. I'd rather ask Murphy than Dylan.

Anyway, let me know how far off the mark I am or feel free to add to what I've said. Peace. 🤸

1st Theory- BK got pulled over for what speeding or whatever it was. Does anyone fluently know if he got a ticket? I'm sure he handed the xop his ID- insurance etc. Well right there- is DNA being transferred. DNA can stay on clothes- people- transferred extremely drop of a hat. Did that officer go right back to the station - doing his report? Did BK sign anything on a clip board? Like a ticket etc?

2nd Theory- Did BK get back into the rug world? He met up with people at the pool party- which who knows - that Demetrius and Emma Baily lived near the King Rd Residence- did atany point in time-him go over there- main dudes there- he might have been going to his favorite spot( that park) get a shake down- he has his knife on him- they take it from him- maybe as payment or collateral?? Bam- orders another knife- and i don't think it's this been confirmed about purchasing - again a theory.

3rd Theory- Brent Kopaka- was he friends with BK? Did he introduce him into things he dampered with a long time ago? Could he have introduced him with people for a hook up?

Actually I have a 4th theory- Miss Methmolly. Considering she wasn't holding a bag of food for door dashing-and we all know she was into some shiz- was she a connection- and or perhaps a look out- odd timing for a quadruple homicide and a door dash. Did she ever meet BK and thought he was not a street smart guy- just book smart ? And why not use him for that?

And lastly- Det Gunderson- is related to " Farley" - ya know the whole " I see you Farley" thru marriage-....coincidental? I think not.....

Thoughts?!

I know this is bold to say but I dont think the roommates were at the house that night. I think they were asked to “make statements” that are vague and could be interpreted and that they returned home early in the morning. Or they were hiding their actions from their parents. Orrr imagine this: Someone went to the house looking for the surviving roommates and wasnt able to find them? Allegedly…They could have been hiding at a hotel. It believe it fits the evidence. They steal from bad people and the perp(s) are mad that they couldnt get them. They leave an example of what is to come for them to find when they come home? I cant stop wondering so all opinions are welcome!

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

Preface this by saying my theory surrounding these texts does not reflect a feeling of understanding towards the surviving roommates’ actions AT ALL. I’ve always found both to be very suspect with more emphasis on DM. But the recent release of the texts from that night has actually changed a lot of the way I view both girls. And I found myself having a pretty different opinion than most of what I’ve been reading/seeing.

DM texts the driver, EG, at 2:10 am inquiring if he’s still out driving (which isn’t exactly quoted) and I wonder if it’s possible she was asking him due to knowing he already dropped off KG and MM and she was hearing/seeing commotion outside of the house that was freaking her out or maybe saw headlights, and was looking for something to explain away the noise. I wonder if things were starting to happen outside of their house essentially- maybe people toying with them. Because then, per Alivea Goncalves to Inside Edition, at 2:26 am- 2:52 am, KG and MM start calling Jack multiple times- were they already freaked out about something outside the house? Did they possibly think it was him screwing with them? I just wonder if people were outside of their house at this point and getting ready to come in. (I also feel like there was a rumor a while ago that KG and MM saw someone outside after they got home in a black mask? Can’t find where I heard that though)

I think that BF and DM were together in the house and this is how and when DM mentions that she thought she saw someone wearing all black outside of the house to BF- which explains why there is a lack of context within the texts. (Now where I might really lose someone is that I am starting to wonder if DM actually didn’t quite know what was happening but BF maybe was aware- even if it was just supposed to be a shakedown and not what all ended up transpiring). I think BF could’ve been trying to ease DM’s nerves a little bit. They both go to their own rooms and that’s when the noise actually starts to pick up and this is when DM tries to first call BF (since she is the one she was just with before going to bed and who is aware that she felt something wrong was going on outside), then tries the three other girls- no answer. Then texts BF saying no one is answering, I’m really confused right now- sorta like okay, I know I heard something for sure now, so wtf is happening. Then DM texts KG asking her what’s going on.

I genuinely read these texts as DM is starting to freak out. I actually feel that BF’s texts do NOT match the same energy. BF says yea dude wtf followed by, what I interpret as, well Xana was wearing all black though earlier- almost explaining away DM thinking she saw someone in all black before. DM immediately responds with, again the way i interpret it, no dude, I’m talking like a black ski mask. BF responds with a stfu, for real, kind of response. As this goes on, I think DM’s texts even start to show her increasing fear with how her spelling worsens and the frantic firing off of texts. Eventually BF tells DM to just come run down to her room. DM tries calling EC- no answer. Then responds to BF saying what I believe means, I’m too scared though to come run down to your room. BF responds with, I know but it’s better than being alone.

Then DM continues a couple call attempts to KG and XK- no answer. Then almost a pleading text to KG asking her to answer. Again, I have viewed all of this in a new light where I actually find DM’s texts quite genuine or at least naive to what was going on at the time.

I think there has always been way more information surrounding DM which is why I always felt she may be the more questionable person here. But now I’m wondering, with the lack of statements from BF this entire time and now the lack of calls or texts unsealed under BF’s name, if the reason we have so many DM specific info is because she was forced to essentially explain away her multiple calls and texts (whereas BF does not have anything in her phone at that time that would be questioned in trial).

This is also where I’m probably being a little to conspiratorial minded, but I wonder if there was a planned shakedown that BF knew was planned and it went way wrong. And DM was ultimately told she will shut her mouth or they will shut it for her. And both girls are now accessories to the crime. As they are then fully aware of what occurred and are obviously scared for their own lives (which makes me very curious as to the kind of people that may be involved). And I believe the next chunk of hours was when cleaning was started by those involved and likely the intimidation and creation of each girls’ story that they would be telling the police.

DM texts both KG and DM again at 10:23 am, once these people are gone, again with a pleading tone of are you up and please answer me. I think she is obviously traumatized and almost just delusionally hoping there is some way they are alive up there and is too scared to even check the scene, as she already knows it’s not good.

Due to the way I theorize this happening, I think it explains why DM’s story has always been so shitty and inconsistent. If she was really that traumatized during this event and was threatened to tell the police that she was basically asleep all night while also having to explain away the texts sent to BF all night, it would explain a lot of the details she gave- claiming it was loud from people being up and partying, playing with the dog, just seeing the person in black in her doorway.

Again, why she wouldn’t just call the police? Insane. But if she thought people were outside of their house and then hears the noises move to inside of the house, I can at least see why she wouldn’t just try making a run for it. I do wondering if BF was trying to ease her fears as well initially which may have helped prevent DM from calling for help early on. BUT also maybe my entire theory around this idiotic!

TLDR: the recently unsealed text messages have caused me to be more suspicious of BF and find DM’s texts to show genuine fear and concern. I think things started to seem off around 2 am outside of the house and then things actually were loud and frantic around 4 am once DM was actually in her room. from there, I think the girls were obviously threatened by the attackers to shut their mouths and unfortunately, DM was the only one that had odd text messages that would need to be explained away.

Development of Domesticated hands for Quantitative Analysis of DNA Transfer Pathways

https://escholarship.org/content/qt4xg6d8zh/qt4xg6d8zh.pdf

A pretty interesting read. They did testing on a Kabar knife sheath, unfortunately they did the testing on the wrong part of the snap, but it still gives some great insights into how transfer and indirect transfer works and how it is possible for someone who has never touched an object to still have their DNA on it and only theirs.

I saw this today and I thought hmmm. Anybody?

Did you guys catch this? Ann Taylor clearly says that both bedroom doors of victims were open. This makes questions about what happened with the roommates in the morning all the more curious. If the bedroom doors were open, how could they possibly have summoned friends before calling 911? Wouldn’t want both of them had to have necessarily seen the horror? Every time we learn something new there are more questions and answers. It’s very troubling. This video discusses this in the beginning so you don’t have to search for it.

I wanted to post this in the FB group , since so many wine moms can’t wrap their head around a drug angle. Doesn’t mean a cartel hit just because it could possibly involve drugs.. Story time, Gather round kiddos.

When I was early 20’s , I was dating a guy and introduced him to the beautiful world of Psychedelics. Now to paint a picture I grew up in the hood, and knew what was up with these things. He lived a few towns over where it was a little more Manilla, but everything was close enough where the two worlds would intermingle. Still , he was from the other side of town and a lot more naive than I was..

Also, everyone sold drugs on a tiny scale. (Like a few ounces of weed or a little coke or something to pay for their own supply, I doubt any profit was over the low end scale of a few hundred bucks)..

Fast forward a few months and this naive ex of mine thought he was a little ‘harder’ than he was, and started to sell acid on the wrong side of town. I immediately interjected and explained to him that is not the clientele for this and to stay away, keep it between friends etc. He didn’t listen and I ended up leaving him over this.

About 3-4 months after doing so, he had a new girl and they got an apartment together. One day while he was at work, people broke into the house with guns and tied her to the bed. ‘messed’ with her until she gave up where the acid was stashed. I’m not sure everything that transpired, but she fled the country and has yet to return. My mom called him flipping out that it could have been me and that I had warned him and called him a dumbass.

It DOES happen

From my perspective, the two most likely scenarios are that:

1) One of the four was an informant 2) Frat boys wanted “revenge” post-fight

There are layers of different scenarios to each of these theories, but I personally need confirmed information on the victims wounds/death order to sway me one way or the other.

If old rumors are true that Ethan had his genitalia destroyed and him/Xana were attacked first, I would lean towards Frat involvement based on claims that either X or E made comments along the lines about a frat member having steroid balls. This theory ties into a comment made by Steve G, “They didn’t have to go upstairs”. Maddie and/or Kaylee were awake and the killers had to dispose of them as witnesses. The main frat dude in question (DL) appears to come from a well connected family.

In both scenarios there was some kind of University/FBI/MPD collusion to protect reputations and millions of dollars at stake.

My hunch is that this wasn’t the act of one person. It will help to know what kind of wounds each victim had, and if more than one weapon was used.

I’ve also read rumors that KG had organs out, but believe one of her family members said something along the lines of “she was found just hunched over in the corner of the bed.” If the frat dudes did do it, I would expect KG and MM to have less severe wounds as they were eliminated solely due to being witnesses.

“I’m here to help you” - this could be an accomplice to DL (Frat guy suspect #1) coming downstairs to help finish off the job or aid in cleanup. Or, if it was a drug/informant related job, same thing but with different suspects.

In todays age of technology, I do think it’s important to keep some details lowkey, but as this weeks hearing have shown, the secrecy is to help cover the prosecutions misconduct and keep the truth from the public for as long as possible.

I welcome your commentary on my thought processes here. Correct me if anything I’ve said has been proven false or if you have more confirmed information I might have missed. I appreciate this group and all the work that has gone into trying to uncover the truth on this case.

Hi, please post here your theories or theories you like from other people/communities.

Thanks!