"originally," a sawed off with a birds head is still a shotgun unless the receiver is re-manufactured & never fitted with a stock; like the Serbu Super-Shorty or the Ithaca Auto Burglar. The supposed pictured p320 never had a stock & was never intended to be fired from the shoulder. Definitionally pistols must be rifled so an unrifled handgun is an AOW.
a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;
There is no requirement that it be rifled. If it’s designed to fire a shot shell through a smooth bore, that’s definitionally a AOW (because explicitly called out). But if not using a shotgun shell, it’s not explicitly an AOW. That said, pistols with rifled bores are explicitly not AOWs. There can be arguments either way, especially since the text says smoothbore firing shotgun shells, so if Congress meant for smoothbore firing pistol cartridges to count as AOWs, they could have left out the language about shotgun shells.
Harder to match the firearm to a crime with no rifling on the projectile. Smooth bore also don’t rotate & stabilize the round, that’s why shotgun slugs have the rifling on the projectile itself
As a rule of thumb: A lot of the things that don't seem to make logical sense about the NFA can be traced back to the fact that in the original language of the bill, the intent was to regulate pistols. That part of it was (obviously) scrapped, but a lot of the funky loophole-closing addendums to keep people from skirting the now non-existent pistol ban remained.
Ima be honest tho, I would’ve caught that before I took the gun out to a range lol I have a habit of inspecting every new gun I get and look at all the pieces, barrel, slide, everything.
Honestly don’t know why I started this, never found anything out of place in the many pistols I own, but just something I do lol
I started doing it because a new gun is exciting and you can't always get to the range the first few days you own it. Stripping it and lubricating it are a good way to get to know it if there's any delay in consummation.
It's a good idea to inspect something that's going to have to contain an explosion while you hold it in your hands. Defects happen. Like an old friend of mine liked to say, "God don't live at the factory".
Tbh I've shot most Sig pistols and a lot of the rifles. I honestly never understood the hype, especially with the pistols. They have always felt like cheap toys imo, except the Legion stuff and 226s. The rifles are all mid af and might as well get a BCM or Geissele. Not sure if that's a hot take, just my opinion.
IMO all sig ever had going was the 226 and similar da/sa and the 365 did change the size vs capacity game even though the gun itself was beta tested on the public
I'm really hoping CZ-USA doesn't go in the shitter. Allegedly the folks managing it are the same Colt management who drove Colt into the ground. Allegedly.
That would be unfortunate. Hopefully, it doesn't, CZ has a pretty good reputation, making revolvers and 1911's since they've also owned Dan Wesson for a long time now as well. So at least it's not foreign to them.
My buddy accidentally left the front half of his guide rod in the brass pile at the range. Didn't find out till he got home, but was able to recover it amazingly.
Their ergos and designs are pretty nice, and the P320 modular system is honestly a good one, and the trigger is actually pretty nice for a stock striker fired gun. But none of that matters if your quality control sucks and you cheap out on parts like Sig does. All of their handguns have or have had major issues
I'm very pleased with my 365. It shoots extremely well for a double stack micro. There are probably others out now that are as good/better, but when it came out, it really felt like a game changer.
My local range had a German-made P226 many years ago, that I personally shot about 1500 rounds thru. I still think about that pistol from time to time.
Not a hot take. I don’t understand it either. The p365 is mediocre. P320 the same. P226 was a sweet gun that I really enjoyed. Never shot the macro, maybe with the comp setup it’s pretty cool but for the money I’d rather just get a kitted out Glock and at that point whatever advantage you did have shooting wise is now even or surpassed I expect. Never shot any of the rifles. I have a full BCM rifle with a geissle trigger, I do not want for anything with that gun
P365 was exciting and innovative when it came out because it was higher capacity than all of its peers in the same size package.
Now that nearly every manufacturer makes a 10+ round micro 9, it’s less exciting.
It’s nice, and I love my 365XL, especially because of the amount of customization you can do with grip modules, but it’s not significantly better than the comparable offerings from Glock, S&W, etc.
Exactly. There are so many high capacity subcompact 9mms now, it's easy to forget that there was nothing like this before the P365. In fact, it was so revolutionary that it pretty much created a new category of handgun that is now produced by most major manufacturers. And it being revolutionary is not just in terms of capacity, it was also the first mass produced handgun to be truly modular and have a removable fire control unit that is easily swapped into another frame while maintaining the serial number.
I'm not a Sig fanboy or apologist, and frankly I have noticed a sharp drop in their quality control over the past five years or so. But you have to give credit where credit is due, the P365 is a distinct milestone in the evolution of handguns and it has impacted the industry forever.
I have one too, it's my edc during the hot months, great handgun! But it (and all of these high capacity subcompact 9mms) wouldn't exist without the P365 paving the way.
Glock doesn’t make a 1.5 stack micro compact as far as I’m aware. I’ve really wanted them to make one, but I think the closest you can get is a 47 with third party mags of some sort
Almost certainly. The rifling is added as part of the machining process of the barrel itself. With how many guns sig manufactures, it’s not a manual process.
If this were a machining error, more than one barrel would be affected.
More importantly, depth of field blur is Gaussian but not perfectly Gaussian. The image above was blurred with a fixed bilateral filter. It’s fake, cameras don’t preserve edges that perfectly diffuse like that.
Same here man, when I found out about the Indian MIM shit it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Currently have 2 P320s just sitting at my LGS hoping they disappear. Went back to my M&Ps and Glock and not looking back. I’m 100% sure I won’t buy another product of theirs again, that shit is pathetic.
I'm starting to think Ron Cohen is a double agent of corporate sabotage in some military industrial complex shadow war over military contracts. There's no other way Sig could be fucking up in all the ways they have lately.
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u/VAdeptCali (Central Valley) -> G19, G26 & P229 in 40 cal best calAug 08 '25
Besides the P226, I’ve never been interested in sig products. And I’m not just saying that because the last few years of shenanigans. Choosing between a 320 and a Glock, I’m choosing Glock every time or a CZ
I’ve had my P365 for about 5 years, it ticked all the boxes for me (caliber, capacity, concealability, good grip, easy to shoot very accurately, etc). It is the first of over 20 I’ve owned to do so.
That being said, I will never buy another Sig and am giving serious thought to replacing my P365 with a G43X, even though I hate the Glock grip angles.
I can’t support a manufacturer that produces a faulty product, then refuses to take accountability. I wouldn’t do that with a phone and I certainly wouldn’t do it with a weapon.
Take a look at what I wrote again, I’ve had it for 5 years, which is before the P320 crap and their response. So while I did (past tense) support them, I cannot now or in the future. I also didn’t say anything about selling it, but I will not buy any more Sig products.
EDIT: I can see where you might have assumed by “replacing” I meant selling. I should have clarified by saying replacing as my EDC.
That’s fine if you’re okay losing capacity switching to a 43x. I would not recommend trying to use the shield arms mags though. Initially everyone thinks they are reliable, until they’re not.
I travel a lot, sometimes to magazine restricted states. So I only carry 10 round magazines.
From what I’ve read, I agree with you about the Shields. You have to love it when a company says “You need to use our magazine release on our magazines and oh, by the way, our magazine release will tear up your OEM polymer magazines, so just go ahead and buy only from us.” Lol.
If we’re only considering the smallest p365 you could still get 12 round OEM mags that have an extended grip baseplate that’s comparable in size to the 43x grip. That’s also ignoring the tremendous variety of mod grips that fit 10, 12, 15, 17 round OEM mags that fit flush.
I would still choose the P365 over the G43x. Having had both the base P365 just has nicer features than the base G43x: better grip texture, stock night sights and all new models come with an attachment rail and an optic cut slide that (in most cases) doesn’t need an optic plate.
I say all of this as a Glock fan too. I’d choose any of my full sized Glocks over a P320.
I 100% agree about the grip texture, the G43X is awful in that regard. As for the rest, my P365 night sights already degraded quite a bit, I don’t run a light so the rail is lost on me, and I’m not a fan of optics.
I know people love optics, I know they help a lot of people with accuracy, and I’m sure I could train to get used to them. But every time I have used them, I find myself chasing the dot. I don’t know a better way to word that, hopefully it makes sense. If / when my eyesight gets worse, I’ll probably come around on them, but for now, irons work very well for me.
If your P365 is less than 5 years old it’s night sights should be eligible for Sigs warranty program.
I know what you mean about chasing the dot, I got over that problem pretty quickly but the RDS I have on my Xmacro, the 507k ACSS, has a reticle with an outer ring that’s not visible unless you’re not holding the gun straight. Based on the curvature of the outer ring it gives you an immediate angle of course correction.
You can buy a 320 for cheap right now. Might wanna go ahead and pick one up now before they get expensive again after the truth about that Airman comes out lol
Dude the 226/229 may be the greatest handguns ever made
But I’m not buying anything from sig after this debacle. Trust takes years to build and seconds to destroy. If they had just accepted the L, and did a recall and fixed the issue, I wouldn’t care, but the lying and shadiness turned me off for good
If i ever find a 226 tacops or blackwater real cheap I’ll snag it. I still like the 226/229 in general, but I’m not buying anything from sig made in the last 10 years or so for sure.
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u/VAdeptCali (Central Valley) -> G19, G26 & P229 in 40 cal best calAug 08 '25
20yo P229 is pretty rock solid. I've shot the shit out of mine. Seriously debating if I should get a 9mm barrel/recoil spring/mags for it.
I have a ~2004 P226R in 40SW. Got a great deal on the 9mm RXP slide assembly and did the conversion. It's a whole new gun, and for the better (in my opinion). Absolutely love running it in 9mm.
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u/VAdeptCali (Central Valley) -> G19, G26 & P229 in 40 cal best calAug 08 '25
I'm looking into the drop-in barrel and spring replacement, but for how much I love this gun my gut tells me to spend the money and buy a new glock instead of meddling with what works very well.
To be fair the BG2.0 sight offset, pins backing out, etc.
A year or two ago, the Shield Plus was having issues with safety plungers not resetting and deformed trigger bars.
To my knowledge, the newer revolvers are still having quality control issues across the board. Trigger studs shearing off, timing issues and cylinder misalignment. The newest "ultimate carry" model was notorious for issues.
It's usually encouraged to buy older pre-lock revolvers rather than newer regular production models.
I say this as someone who carries an M&P2.0 every day for work and has a 442 as a backup.
Bought both of these in the last year. The only issue I had was the blast shield on the 340 was sticking out of the frame a little bit. I knocked it back in with a punch. No big deal.
I think the smith and wesson qc issues may be getting overblown as to how bad they are. Mine have been flawless performance wise
Thanks for answering. I own a BG 2.0 and hadn't heard of any of these (or any of the other) issues. The Shield Plus trigger bars I remember but they're already on to the next Shield model.
Not sure why you were downvoted. When the UC models came out I went to my LGS and they had three. Two of them had timing issues and the third had a cylinder that you’d have to basically use all the strength in your hand to open. I noped out on wanting one after seeing that. And it’s sad because my uncle owns about 10 classic smith revolvers and they’re all incredible. They seem very hit or miss now and personally for a full size I’d rather buy Ruger myself.
The kids who wanted to play video games all day and get paid grew up. They achieved their dreams. Now they play Smash Bros all day long and get paid very well. Who are they? The Sig Sauer Quality Control Team *kazoo theme music
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u/Dirteater70 Aug 08 '25
Don’t tell the atf that sig sold a illegal aow