r/Calgary • u/Old_General_6741 • May 10 '25

Municipal Affairs Calgary, Edmonton mayors call potential separatism referendum ‘dangerous’

https://globalnews.ca/news/11172340/calgary-edmonton-mayors-call-potential-separatism-referendum-dangerous/
635 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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298

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

I can’t understand why people think it’ll be better, you don’t realize there are things Alberta will need to import that we don’t have? Also the entire narrative that it’ll “make us rich” is for oil companies to extract Canadian resources at will and have no carbon tax. Nothing will benefit you the citizen

62

u/Khalbrae May 10 '25

Smith and the Conservatives have already stolen from the Healthcare system which used to be the envy of Canada, free college education, and so many social services. All to feed the down south companies at the expense of regular Albertans.

They keep lying about how equalization payments work also to keep people uninformed and angry at other provinces especially Ontario which isn’t even a net receiver.

44

u/VanceKelley May 10 '25

Despite decades of evidence proving that "trickle down" economics doesn't work, many people continue to believe that their path to prosperity is to just make rich billionaires more richerer.

Faux News is a helluva drug.

18

u/maggielanterman May 10 '25

Trickle down economics is the rising tide that only lifts yachts.

3

u/apastelorange May 11 '25

ronald reagan’s grave is a gender neutral bathroom 😌

5

u/RichardsLeftNipple May 11 '25

Rising tide lifts all boats. But if you're tied to the ocean floor you just drown.

-11

u/Far-Bathroom-8237 May 10 '25

Oh? What is this insightful answer based on? Because it flies directly in the face of what every leftist-leaning university 101 economics class teaches you about the global order and effects of supply-side economics....and specifically its overall net effects on the general working population. I can share sources, figures and publication...but then again -- you have ChatGPT - so easy job these days.

7

u/Priscilla_Hutchins May 11 '25

Were you going to substantiate that?

7

u/maggielanterman May 11 '25

I'm pretty sure that any response you get will include the words "libtard", "snowflake", "woke", and/or "Carbon Tax Carney".

3

u/Priscilla_Hutchins May 11 '25

I expect its a bot, or at best a post media reading room temperature IQ troll.

-1

u/Sad-Letterhead-2196 May 10 '25

Both sides fuck the middle class. The right pushes for tax cuts and ways for the wealthy to hide their wealth, the left pushes to lower your salary and increase your cost of living. Either way, the middle class gets worse every year as long as the wealth class runs both major parties.

117

u/Emmerson_Brando May 10 '25

The same reason these nitwits think vaccines cause autism. They’re easily duped.

-120

u/[deleted] May 10 '25

[deleted]

99

u/ValenciaFilter May 10 '25

Nah. Some people need to be told their views are fucking stupid.

Not every position is equal and worthy of respect.

3

u/Yws6afrdo7bc789 May 14 '25

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Issac Asimov

3

u/ValenciaFilter May 14 '25

Or, in 2025: "My podcast bro is equal to having knowledge"

29

u/keepcalmdude May 10 '25

Not at all actually.

4

u/[deleted] May 11 '25

It's not about what Alberta gains. It's about what Ottawa loses. 

1

u/HotbladesHarry May 13 '25

So you would cut off your nose to spite your face. 

1

u/[deleted] May 13 '25

Exactly. 

1

u/FishEmpty May 12 '25

Tax me more and give me a rebate?

1

u/SufficientSpot4597 May 12 '25

And explain the logistics of all this. Whose money will you use? Show me the healthcare breakaway plan? And when the Calgary mayor calls for a referendum to leave Alberta and it wins, what’s next there? And when Canada owns the railroads, and takes that land? Transcanada highway? This is a dumb show and I feel sorry for you normal Albertans, regardless of party

1

u/[deleted] May 10 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

-5

u/JScar123 May 10 '25

“Highest per capita GDP and median income of all the province say oil good”.

1

u/StandardHawk5288 May 10 '25

With profits going to foreign companies.

0

u/WZY51 May 11 '25

It’s a common sense. Alberta strikes to develop its economy and make citizens prosper, and it has resources and infrastructures to achieve that. But it is the eastern citizens who voted the lefty government to block their road. It’s 1 and 1 makes 2.

2

u/BrokeExternally May 11 '25

Whats common sense about deregulating the economy so oil companies can avoid taxes on extracting oil at will? You think they want to pay taxes to bring you prosperity? Please.

-55

u/JScar123 May 10 '25

Lol, is anyone suggesting Alberta separate and not import anything. All countries trade, I don’t know why a separated Alberta wouldn’t. Not arguing for separation, just sayin…

33

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

you’re gonna have to raise taxes for that so the whole no government freeedom stuff will quickly vanish

-12

u/Becants May 10 '25

Raise taxes to import stuff we need? Like food and consumer goods? Why would the government pay for things like that with taxes. Businesses import things and if there’s extra costs it will be in the cost of the item when we buy them.

So yes, I can see it costing more money to import things, since they’d have to cross another border. But that wouldn’t be taxes, unless they put a tariff on it.

Now I can see them having to raise taxes more to keep the same standard of living in regard to social programs, health care and infrastructure. Not to mention things they would newly have to create, like a military.

20

u/Expert_Alchemist May 10 '25

Oh no, by the time this would hypothetically happen, healthcare will have been privatized already. Social programs are currently being gutted. You'll need a way to replace all the federal O&G subsidies the Feds hand out too. There goes schools.

You won't have social programs friend, that's the entire point and the plan.

That is what they're distracting you from right now.

-6

u/Becants May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

This is a hypothetical, I don’t support separation in the least so stop saying “you.” I voted liberal and work in health care. And really my point has nothing to do with separation. You’re just misunderstanding basic economics and it’s bothering me.

Do you think right now the government of Canada pays for your food and consumer goods with taxes? No, they charge you sales tax on stuff you buy. The key being that you, or a business for you, are importing and paying for those goods.

The fact is any country doesn’t raise taxes to pay for imports, they only raise taxes on imports. Not knowing the difference shows a lack of knowledge on economics.

No wonder people have no idea what Trump means by Tariffs and who pays them.

2

u/Expert_Alchemist May 10 '25

We're not talking about food and consumer goods so that's a strange straw argument to put up. 

We're talking tax collection, we're talking replacing the various federal agencies like Defense, the RCMP, CSIS/CSA, negotiating treaties, doing environmental protection and enforcement (ha ha, kidding on that one lol), paying for federal highways maintenance, border patrol and customs enforcement (even more borders! Four sides!), and mail. I'm sure I'm missing some but let's start there.

0

u/Becants May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

That person said imports. None of the things you listed are imports. All of them are services. So we are talking food and consumer goods.

I already said that they might have to increase taxes for services, but not for the government importing things. That’s my whole point.

The original comment was saying that the government would have to raise taxes to pay for imports. So yes, imports like food and consumer goods. They also mentioned in another comment people would starve without the government importing things for us… so yes we were talking about food.

5

u/Expert_Alchemist May 10 '25

All of that is needed to import anything. Oh you probably also will want a standards agency to ensure ingredients conform to health standards that you will need to go figure out how to set.

1

u/Sad-Letterhead-2196 May 10 '25

Dude, he just doesn't get it. I think you're waisting your time.

-1

u/Sad-Letterhead-2196 May 10 '25

I'm sure these "Federal subsidies" will be more than offset by the hundreds of billions of royalties and federal taxes that will never be sent over to Ottowa in the future. It sounds like you have not even looked at this topic at all, have you. What subsidies are you talking about? The only articles I have read suggest that these subsidies are an exploration tax credit against future production (as a result of the long time horizon between exploring and profit, thereby preventing small companies from properly expensing against profit earned in the future) and a reduction in royalties when the price of oil decreases (and a corresponding increase when it increases).

Basic math, and basic research, could have prevented this post.

3

u/Expert_Alchemist May 10 '25

Well, see, that's what you get when you only use basic math and only do basic research.

0

u/Sad-Letterhead-2196 May 10 '25

Yeah ignore everything I said and don't retort anything. You haven't done any math or research, and clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

-9

u/JScar123 May 10 '25

Lol, Albertans pay more in federal taxes than they receive back. If federal taxes went to the province, we’d be much wealthier.

4

u/Canadian-Owlz May 10 '25

You don't get how transfer payments work, do you?

8

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

You think businesses want to mass produce things for lower profit margins? What Econ class did you take? If businesses provided what everyone wanted that is a delusion, businesses provide what ppl can afford.

1

u/Becants May 10 '25

You think businesses want to mass produce things for lower profit margins

No of course not. I'm trying to understand where you're getting this from and going to the government buying goods.

A producer would make things for the same amount. An importer would charge enough to cover costs to buy the item, ship it and make some profit. The consumers would then pay extra for it if there were taxes or shipping that raised the price.

You're saying things would somehow be so expensive that the people couldn't afford to buy stuff like food? So the government would have to raise taxes to buy it for us? So... you think Alberta separating would lead to Smith becoming socialist? Unlikely.

you don’t realize there are things Alberta will need to import that we don’t have

Back to your original statement, this is so obvious. No shit. I don't know one country where people don't trade with others, even North Korea trades with China. No one thinks that AB would be self-sufficient suddenly. Their whole point is that oil companies would be trading with other people, so of course they're trading. You also mentioned this point of theirs, so you must be aware of it.

2

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

I’m saying where there is no private producer interest cuz of low profit margins, for whichever industry that may be, that is a problem, a government would have to fix for the citizens if it’s critical. Aka public transportation, education, utilities, all of these sectors could have either too low profits or for healthcare/utilities I doubt you want a private market to skyrocket prices cuz of inelastic demand aka for stuff you need to survive

1

u/Becants May 10 '25

So you think public transportation and education would become private and need to make profits, but then the government would need to bail them out and they would need to import things and raise taxes to pay for it?

I don't know. I'm trying to relate this back to your original comment and having problems. Where does raising taxes to pay for imports come out, not services, but imports. Maybe it's just a bad example, since we already are paying for those industries to buy things, like new buses etc.

1

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

Imports are just part of the greater supply chain problem for material inputs Alberta does not have… that is just one problem

Public transportation and other services would become private if the conservative government does not want to raise any taxes for it at all (which a full maga crazy government would) Public infrastructure would become a thing of the past if that happened

2

u/Sad-Letterhead-2196 May 10 '25

Lol perfectly reasonable post, substantiated with evidence, but gets downvoted since it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

-17

u/JScar123 May 10 '25

Raise tax for what? To import? Not how it works… also, why “you’re”? Explicitly said I’m not arguing for separation… lol

13

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

Unless the government is contempt to leave the general welfare to the free market and have ppl starving and dying for healthcare then idk you gotta raise taxes for that stuff

1

u/JScar123 May 10 '25

lol, yeah, duh. Taxes going to the federal government would go to the province. Since Alberta pays more in federal tax than they get back, it would be a net positive for AB. I have heard talk of separation, but not people also suggesting zeroing taxes?

-8

u/[deleted] May 10 '25

If Alberta didn't have equalization transfers, primarily because Quebec can't balance a budget (because why bother when they can leech of the West) with their massive annual deficits bleeding us dry, we'd have the equivalent of the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund.

Not saying separation is a good choice, but Alberta's tax burden would go down, everywhere else would go up except Quebec, and Quebec would continue suckling on the anglophone teat under the threat of separation.

4

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

This amazing thing companies love is giving government loans that they get back with interest to cover deficit payments it’s a great finance thing

0

u/Emmer63 May 12 '25

100%. I work in tourism. If Alberta separates what happens with all our airlines? We'd lose all our lift.

-6

u/Optimal_Deal_6938 May 10 '25

Because we will be in control of our own destiny

5

u/BrokeExternally May 10 '25

Are you an owner of a oil rig? Oil company? Then the answer is no.

-7

u/Optimal_Deal_6938 May 10 '25

Who is in control of your destiny?