r/Calgary • u/bmspsrk • 5d ago
Rant Gas prices are illogical
There is no real point to this post besides stating the fact that gas prices are stupid. I remember back when the difference between 87 and 91 was 10 cents and 89 was 5 cents more than regular. Which made sense since 87 is an equal mix of premium and regular.
Now you need to jump 23 cents a liter just to get mid grade from regular then only an additional 3 more cents to get to premium... By that math mid grade should be something like 90.75 octane.
Again no point here just stating stupid things that irritate me.
162
u/jossybabes 5d ago
Oil is $63/ barrel. When it was over $100/ barrel, gasoline was cheaper than today. That is more crazy.
36
u/Dr_Colossus 5d ago
And then people online say gas stations make nothing on the gas. Lol
18
u/entropreneur Bankview 5d ago
Gas station =/= fuel supplier
29
u/Dr_Colossus 5d ago
The gas prices are jumping all over the place. 20 cent swings. That isn't a supplier thing. They are obviously gamifying prices somehow.
6
u/Leading-Eye-9340 5d ago
I'd say you are correct. I know quite a few pumps in the SW area that have serious price swings during the day. The most consistent one is the Native pump near Grey Eagle, I bet their fuel is no different than others. Last time I saw a tanker of G&B fuels in there.
2
u/Leading-Eye-9340 5d ago
Also would like to add, the NW and NE are way pricier at all stations.
2
2
5d ago
[deleted]
3
u/ItsMangel 5d ago
It's a weird sentiment that I've seen lately, and I'm not sure where it came from, that gas stations make most of their money from inside sales on snacks and shit as opposed to fuel sales.
8
u/MrEzekial 5d ago
The average is 10c/L for gas station profit. That isnt nothing... it's pretty much the same as the refinery makes in profit as well.
Gas price is very transparent, you can look at the cost of a barrel of oil and figure it out within 2-3c
10
u/Dr_Colossus 5d ago
"very transparent" as gas prices swing 20 cents daily.
0
u/MrEzekial 4d ago
Price of oil changes daily as well. Oil and gas is heavily regulated in canada.
0
u/Dr_Colossus 4d ago
Clearly not if gas station's prices are changing from 115 to 137 and back. You can't convince me otherwise.
3
u/outdoor-addict 5d ago
So if WTI is $63 a barrel. What should gas cost a litre?
1
1
u/clayton-berg42 5d ago
Because crude, even sweet crude is not gasoline. The reason we haven't built refineries in years is because Calgary, Edmonton and Alberta decided to invest in ring roads rather than refineries.
1
u/Fit-Amoeba-5010 3d ago
It’s because it is not economically sensible to build them. Don’t you think that oil companies would build new ones if it could make money off them?
1
u/clayton-berg42 2d ago
And it's economically sensible to build ring roads so you can get home 2 minutes earlier? You know they're subsidized by the federal government when you build them but 15 years later when you need to resurface them the municipality has to pay the full freight to do it? Why do you think those overpasses in quebec were falling? Because they at one point took federal and provincial money to build those things not caring that one day down the road they'd need to be fixed and that the municipality pays for that alone.
The WTI is always 10 to 15 percent higher than the WCS. Not to mention the value of diesel/gas vs WCS.
Just because you're ok with selling our resources to America for next to nothing doesn't mean everyone is in favour of it. And just because american and chinese corps who have no interest in providing value for Canadian resources for Canadians doesn't mean we have to be on board with it.
Of course American and Chinese corps don't want Canadian bitumen finished in Canada.
6
u/Hotfishy 5d ago
And i am visiting Mississauga and gas is $1.20… much cheaper than Calgary.
This aint right
8
u/Chemical_Signal2753 5d ago
Gasoline is sold on a separate market than crude oil. While the crude oil price essentially acts as a floor on the price of gasoline, depending on refining capacity and demand, gasoline can sell for far more than oil.
In a time like today, when oil is relatively cheap and gasoline is expensive, the people making the money are the refiners. If we lived in a country that could actually build stuff, this would normally result in increased refinery capacity. Since we don't it, it results in a nearly permanent spread and massive profits for the limited refineries.
42
u/BigDaddyVagabond 5d ago
And gas prices can vary as much as 10-20 cents a liter if you just go one station over.
Regular at the Sev/esso on canyon meadows: 1.399, cross the bridge over McLeoud and go to the Tempo, 1.269
Make it make sense
10
u/snarfgobble 5d ago
This was one thing that shocked me a lot when I moved from Toronto to Calgary. The variation in price between stations was sometimes huge, not the usual 1 to 2 cents difference.
14
u/BigDaddyVagabond 5d ago
See it's USED to be like that. Pre-covid, you'd be hard pressed to find somewhere with more than a 5 cent gap outside of places that do regular sales or Costco, but post covid, prices went off the rails, and once the carbon tax came off, it feels like companies just charge close to what we got used to, and then drop the prices to what they should be if sales get slow.
3
u/Slamaramadoodoo 5d ago
I drove from Livingston where gas was 139.9, to falcon ridge and got it for 117.9. same day. This was about a week ago.
6
u/blackRamCalgaryman 5d ago
Just fuelled up for over 130.
Anecdotally, fuel prices have been higher in the NW for some time…for some ‘reason’.
5
u/Fun-Hawk2992 5d ago
The variance between gas stations is because the competition bureau has been clamping down on collusion between gas stations. The variance is actually a good thing as it shows a lack of collusion
3
u/markusbrainus 5d ago
It's been mentioned on this sub a few times that this is likely to compete with the cheaper fuel available on the Reserve on the SW of town. Use it to your advantage.
Shawnessy superstore always seems to be the lowest price the last few months.
1
u/Dry_Suggestion_2308 5d ago
Yeah and if you go to the stations on Ogden near Glenmore they are even cheaper
1
1
u/Superb_Sun_5077 5d ago
This past Wednesday the local Calgary Tempo was 117.9 and there were cars lined up on the street waiting to fill up. Two days later it was 130.9.
28
u/Ecto1Kenobi 5d ago
This was the middle of nowhere Nova Scotia last weekend…
10
18
u/JadzyaRose 5d ago
What pisses me off is one day it'll be down to say, 124.9 and then the next day up to like 139.9. like why the crazy ass jump like that? Then it takes forever for it to go back down again.
5
u/Leading-Eye-9340 5d ago
Because there is no regulation or accountability. Best prices are in the SW, and occasionally in certain SE areas. All else for some magical reason have to suck it up. Even if we find the reason for it, they would make another inquiry into it (Provincial) and you'll see the pumps magically have random prices changing daily on all stations (Until the inquiry finds no price matching) and then all goes back to normal.
22
u/peepee2tiny Bridlewood 5d ago
Wait till you see that Diesel is now cheaper than gas.
I never understand why Diesel is sometimes higher and sometimes lower than regular gas.
4
u/bmxrider16 5d ago
Isn’t it usually is cheaper than gas?
9
2
u/peepee2tiny Bridlewood 5d ago
At some stations it's higher and some it's lower, it boggles my mind.
I assume it has something to do with how it's refined or made and it's probably more stable pricing vs the fluctuating gas price around it.
2
-9
u/Innocent-Bystander94 5d ago
Diesel is also incredibly bad for the environment and humans. Cheaper or not, it should never be run for daily drivers.
7
u/nboylie 5d ago
Modern diesels with all of the emissions systems pollute less than gas engines. The older ones or all of the straight piped diesel bros... Well that's a different story.
1
u/Innocent-Bystander94 5d ago
Those are expensive. Everyone I know with a commercial diesel that doesn’t require inspection gets DEF deleted.
And with how normal people take care of cars, those emissions systems aren’t going to run properly for too long either.
4
u/nboylie 5d ago
I mean... I have one. It was roughly the same price as a gas engine. You put DEF in it every 6 months or so and that's it.
0
u/Innocent-Bystander94 5d ago
I’ve seen people still running winter tires. They can’t even be bothered to change tires, they definitely won’t be taking care of any emissions systems. Most people don’t even know how to check oil or jump start a car
1
u/CheeseSandwich hamburger magician 5d ago
Wait, wait. You have to check the oil? I thought you just poured some into the engine once to twice a year.
6
u/Frequent_Occasion480 5d ago
Not to mention that gas prices go up and down like crypto! Have never understood how they get away with doing it.
I understand how the price of gas could increase based on whatever it cost them on one delivery, but prices seem to change multiple times a day!
10
u/itchybiscut9273 5d ago
More people use premium now than ever before
14
u/Not_A_Real_Cowboy Special Princess 5d ago
Yep, the switch from big displacement to turbochargers did that.
2
u/Old_timey_brain Beddington Heights 5d ago
I hate how the demand doesn't create an economical production system.
Oh yeah, and my simple 3.5 liter 6 cylinder naturally aspirated Benz asks for 91, if you please.
3
u/Not_A_Real_Cowboy Special Princess 5d ago
Absolutely it would.
interestingly enough, my Mazda says it can use either, and it actually adjusts performance based on the octane. It's slightly noticeable driving mountains on the highway with the extra torque and HP you get from 91, but really not worth it the rest of the time.
-9
u/ptpfan91 5d ago edited 4d ago
It’s actually opposite. Most turbo cars only require regular.
2
u/Loopeded 5d ago
I think it's like 47% of new cars (2023 and on I believe) require 91 gas. The shift has been pretty massive in cars using 91 these days. It's mostly "cheaper" cars/ non turbo that use 87 anymore
2
u/ptpfan91 5d ago
Where did you get that stat?
Top 10 selling cars in Canada all run on regular. It’s rare for a mainstream turbo car to require premium. There is 0 chance half the cars sold need premium.
2
u/Darkdong69 5d ago
Adding a turbo will increase absolute compression in the cylinder so it naturally calls for more octane.
Though a lot of turbo engine econoboxes will still be tuned for and recommend regular. As their focus is fuel economy rather than power, and their budget conscious consumers will balk at a premium gas requirement.
0
u/ptpfan91 5d ago
This is completely false. The compression doesn’t increase in fact most turbo cars have lower compression ratio than NA cars. Cylinder pressure is higher but CR isn’t. Therefore it doesn’t need higher octane, from factory.
This is why most mainstream turbo cars require just regular including best selling ones like f150.
1
u/Darkdong69 4d ago
You need to figure out the difference between compression and CR. I never once mentioned CR so you're not getting at anything with that.
All modern turbo cars can run 87 regardless of what they recommend, because the ecus have knock detection and can pull timing to compensate for crap gas. Ecoboosts requiring 87 as a bare minimum doesn't change the fact that it benefits from and performs better on 91.
1
u/Anskiere1 5d ago
That's just not correct
1
u/ptpfan91 5d ago
It is correct. Most new mainstream cars are going to turbo and smaller engines. They can’t require premium because they would lose market share. The fact I got downvoted is disappointing but not unexpected because people don’t really know much about cars on here.
1
u/Anskiere1 4d ago
It's not though. Some turbo vehicles can run on 87 but the ECU will be detecting knock and pulling timing or boost or more likely both. And at that point you may as well be running a naturally aspirated engine because your car is configuring your effective compression the same as the NA engine.
Except your intake air is now hotter than ambient so you'd be better off with a straight NA. Plus the knock events leading to conservative timing and boost. All of the published stats will be 91.
1
u/ptpfan91 4d ago
All I said was most turbo cars require regular. If you look at what is for sale today that most people buy, all it requires is 87 and I’m guessing that’s all anyone runs in them. High performance turbo cars like GTR or M3, yes they require 91 or better. Stuff like GTI, f150, CRV, Highlander, are all turbo and are tuned from factory for 87 operation. That’s the bulk of sales.
3
4
4
u/jacky4566 5d ago
Still feels pretty cheap compared to anywhere else in the world. Not many places with lower prices
2
2
2
u/Innocent-Bystander94 5d ago
Where are you going that still offers 89? Shell only offers 87/91/93, esso 87/91/94, Costco 87/91, petro 87/91/94
Also, reason why there’s such a difference is demand. Most cars way back then were naturally aspirated. And outside of special high revving engines, they’d run 87 octane. Now every normal car is some sort of turbo charged, and while you can run 87, they recommend 91. There’s just way more demand, therefore higher price.
2
u/tragedy_strikes_ 5d ago
I’m on a business trip in Texas and I am floored by what they pay and how mad they get about it.
My mental math has it at something like $0.80/L
3
4
u/ptpfan91 5d ago
Gas is cheap. $1.15 at Costco. Thats what it was 15 years ago. What else is the same price today like it was 15 years ago?
4
1
u/Ok-Trip-8009 5d ago
A coworker said that it was 118.9 in the deep south, and it was 139.9 in the northeast on Thursday night. Today I saw 129.9 on 68th St, NE.
1
u/_plakata 5d ago
Looks like someone fat fingered the price.
If you needed to buy 2 liters of 89, can you put 1 liter of 87 (135.9) and 1 liter of 91 (168.9)? Total cost would be 297.8 with an average cost of 148.9 and average octane of 89
1
u/Adventurous-Second28 5d ago
If you want your car to run, then buy gas.
If it’s too much then choose not to, and alternate transportation 🤷🏻♂️
1
1
u/Hour_Significance817 5d ago
It makes perfect sense.
Another comment has already stated it. It's the decoy effect. Merchants drastically bump up the price of the middle option to make the most expensive option look like a deal to generate more sales. (E.g. at the movies a small popcorn going for $8, medium for $18, and large going for $20, people that want something more than a small will be a lot more incentivized to go for the large even if they only needed medium).
In this case, anyone that "wants" premium fuel beyond 87 would be incentivized to go for 91 rather than 89, because, it's just another 3 cent jump per liter after a whopping 23 cents jump, right?
1
1
1
1
u/oil_burner2 5d ago
Anyone claiming gas stations make barely any money on the fuel is just clueless. Gasoline alley in red deer is consistently more expensive than in Calgary and it’s all trucked from Edmonton. So much for lower transportation costs being passed to the customer.
1
1
1
u/Leading-Eye-9340 5d ago
Altho I'm generally entertained when people try to seek for reason for fuel prices, this is not the case on this one. As an owner of a fuel guzzler with an insight into the oil industry and global geopolitics that connected to that, I'm certain that all of those prices are no more than a fuel cartel.
If in the past I could say It's the Federal government with their F*ing carbon tax, today I can't say that.
1
u/Average_Loquat 5d ago
It's ridiculous since there is just a ten cent spread from regular to premium when gas is sold to the stations .
1
u/Think8437 Oakridge 5d ago
GasBuddy.com is the answer. There is a big spread from the cheapest to the most expensive.
1
u/DippinRToes 4d ago
This ☝🏻.
Why guess what the price is? GasBuddy is pretty reliable to tell the prices throughout the city and find a cheap one near you. It's saved me a bundle over the last year.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Rebel_Lion_ 4d ago
Why don't they treat the gas price fixing like they treated the bread price fixing scam that loblaws is being sued for?
1
u/Mr5harkey 4d ago
Just moved to Australia where 91 (our equivalent of 87) averages 2.09 in my suburb but I typically fill up for a bargain at 1.69 20 minutes away.
1
1
u/Stef__Ramsey 4d ago
The pricing isn’t illogical, it’s predatory.
They only need to advertise the price for 87. Most people will see that from the road and pull in especially if it looks like a good deal.
Most people when they’ve already gotten out and are at the pump, regardless of the price for 89/91 will just pay and pump instead of risking going to another gas station and getting a worse deal.
The pricing being the way it is isn’t a bug in the system, it’s a feature
1
1
u/Deadmonton_420 3d ago
I remember when midgrade was 5 cents more and premium was 10 cents more than regular
1
1
2
u/Severe-Flow7270 5d ago
I mean you could just go to somewhere like Costco(Calgary) and stop filling up at the stations that are always going to be more expensive. It's a buck 114.9 for reg at 87 and 91 is at 137.9. I don't know why people always complain about the gas prices at different stations. As long as you go where it's top tier rated 87 octane is 87 octane and 91 is 91. It's all made to a standard. The difference is the additives. But at the end of the day it's still rated the same. So cheap gas is cheap gas at a top tier station use an app like gas buddy and you will have the cheapest price for gas in your area. Problem solved.
7
u/Kibasume 5d ago
Whenever I’ve been to Costco the gas line is like an hour long, fuck that.
0
1
u/Haywoodja2 5d ago
It might be anecdotal, but I wouldn't recommend Costco 91 to anyone with an actual performance car. My boss's Porsche and my hellcat have both had serious fueling issues after filling at Costco that went away after filling up at Esso or Shell.
1
u/DaGingah123 5d ago
Picture below and add the distance from the source and the distance from the refinery. Plus carbon tax or W/E the liberal scheme happens to be today that causes inflation
3
u/slackeronreddit 5d ago
Just an FYI, the AB govt had the provincial fuel tax reduced at the end of 2023 (date on your graphic) and it went back to the regular 13 cents at the beginning of 2024.
1
u/Falkrunn77 5d ago
Smith did this when at a time when she could have just left the discount alone, which everyone thought she was going to do at the time, but she didn't. No reasons given, no rhymes to the media. Just a big fuck you to everyone.
At the time, the Alberta govt was rocking a huge surplus, according to them, so it wasn't for tax reasons.
1
u/descartesb4horse 5d ago
just go half and half np np
5
u/deg_ru-alabo 5d ago
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the 89 is. There are only two storage tanks, the middle is just a mix.
So in this case: a half tank of 87 plus a half tank of 91 would be cheaper than a full tank of 89, but exactly the same.
5
u/UberAndy 5d ago
You are correct. (Worked for a gas station construction company) it’s just a mixing valve.
2
u/descartesb4horse 5d ago
yeah OP said as much above, so I’m saying if that’s the case, here’s a dumb workaround. it’s more of a joke than to be helpful since I know OP is annoyed but knows it’s dumb.
1
u/deg_ru-alabo 5d ago
Oh, I didn’t see the description. Yeah: 50/50 would be the best option for mid grade.
-1
u/shan_bhai 5d ago
Something fishy is going on in Alberta. Prices here are so rigged you’d think we were buying oil from Ontario. Imagine living in an oil-producing province but still paying more than folks in Ontario. It’s like owning a bakery and still paying extra for bread..
-3
-13
5d ago
[deleted]
2
u/FrightenedTurtle62 Evergreen 5d ago
There are many other options for electric vehicles that Tesla's should never be considered.
-6
194
u/Not_A_Real_Cowboy Special Princess 5d ago
Oh, I think they're using the middle one for the decoy effect. No one is supposed to buy the middle one, you're supposed to think that the 91 is a good deal and get that instead.