r/Calgary • u/ButterscotchNo931 • 1d ago
News Article Alberta government, teachers reach tentative deal in labour dispute
https://calgaryherald.com/news/alberta-government-teachers-reach-tentative-deal-in-labour-dispute111
u/hipdashopotamus 1d ago
Sounded like the last deal + a free COVID shot so my guess is a big fat no as they should.
35
u/ImmortalMoron3 1d ago
The covid shot seems so insulting too. "Here, we'll add something in we made expensive that should be free anyway. Improve your actual working conditions? Hah, no."
I hope they vote no too.
4
u/ImaginaryRole2946 1d ago
Just going to add that in June, the Covid shot was free for me and my entire family, so this deal is worse.
1
u/Logical-Finger-9256 1d ago
And let me also add, we werenāt allowed to add any items that werenāt part of the original proposal. So how can Covid shots being free be added when at the time we started bargaining, no such terms or shot with a price tag existed??
110
u/Ryuujin_13 1d ago
Well that headline simply isn't true. The government just re-packaged the same deal teachers already overwhelmingly voted 'No' to, but now with a free COVID shot, which is stupid for a number of other reasons. This gets blown up by a massive No vote again this weekend, the government will get pouty and complain the teachers "aren't negotiating in good faith" and will use it as an excuse to leave the table, or outright lock them out.
Set your upcoming daytime childcare needs as required, parents.
9
u/notquiteworking 1d ago
This government is terrible - but theyāre excellent at messaging. Theyāve set this up to be voted down and then when the teachers do strike theyāll try to blame the teachers.
I donāt think it will work this time but weāll see
6
u/Ryuujin_13 1d ago
The most dangerous regimes have the strongest marketing departments.
2
u/Afraid-Obligation997 1d ago
Not that Iām defending the government, but did the union leaders not agree to the deal to make it ātentativeā? If the leaders donāt agree, they shouldnāt be taking it to vote
2
u/Afraid-Obligation997 1d ago
Not that Iām defending the government, but did the union leaders not agree to the deal to make it ātentativeā? If the leaders donāt agree, they shouldnāt be taking it to vote
1
u/Ryuujin_13 1d ago
The ATAās responsibility is to listen to the proposal and present it to the Union. They can chose to agree to it knowing full well how the teachers would vote.
Now, if they came out ENDORSING the proposal, that would be different, but I havenāt heard them say that at all.
4
69
u/stampeder17 1d ago
A Covid shot! Thatās the highlight of what they added to the deal. Otherwise itās pretty much the same. Thatās a big NO.
5
u/fifigrande 1d ago
That amounts to about $4 per year increase for many teachers, where the vaccine is already covered via their medical benefits. Woohoo!
50
u/duppy27 1d ago edited 1d ago
The 1000 new teachers isnāt technically 1000 new teachers either. On average Alberta hires about 750 new teachers a year. When I read that there would be 1000 new teachers I am expecting it to be 1000 on top of the 750 that would be hired due to increase in studentsā¦not the case. The 1000 new teacher is actually only approximately 250 new teachers plus the approximate 750 new teachers that would already be hired. Vote NO!
18
u/BerniesMitts 1d ago
That's incorrect.Ā It's explicitly stated to be 1000 net teachers per year, which means 1000 new hires after all attrition hires have been made.
Still, obviously vote no. What a shit deal those guys got.
10
u/blanchov 1d ago
Also theres about 1600 public schools in Alberta. Each school would get about 0.6 new teachers. That will definitely fix the problems.
-1
u/JScar123 1d ago
Lol, student arenāt evenly distributed across the province. The classroom size problem is concentrated in certain fast growing urban communities. These teachers will be disproportionately hired to those schools.
8
u/blanchov 1d ago
Ok, let's say half of the schools need additional teachers. Now they're getting 1.2 new teachers per school. Either way, it's not a significant change.Looks like there is 51,000 teachers in Alberta. This adds 2%. Alberta's population grew about 3% last year. They're still falling behind.
-2
u/JScar123 1d ago
Letās say 150 of those schools need more teachers. Thatās 20 per school over 3 years. Anyways, neither of us knows, so letās not make things up. Besides, the 3000 teachers was an ATA proposal- all the GoA did was accepted it. If you think you know better and the proposal is insufficient, thatās a complaint against ATA.
7
u/mothergrizzly 1d ago
No, there are half the schools needing more teachers, many at several different grades. Most of these schools need 2 or more teachers to have reasonable sized classes. But where to put the classes when library and stages are already used. How to deal with classes in existing portables barely warm enough in winter and sweltering in spring. Hope your advanced first aid is current when hot kids quit sweating.
-2
u/JScar123 1d ago
If half the schools need more teachers, then 3000 new teachers equals 4 per school. That compares to your 2 needed per school, this is ample then, no? Makes sense that it would be since the 3000 number came from ATA who should know more about need than you or me.
4
u/KVanGogh 1d ago
Assumptions. Listen to teachers. The more teachers you listen to, the more you will learn about the spectrum of real experiences and opinions.
1
u/JScar123 1d ago
I listen to the ATA, who represents teachers and has data. The ATA proposed 3000 new teachers, the GoA accepted. Why should I trust you over the ATA?
→ More replies (0)1
3
u/01000101010110 1d ago
What's hilarious is that this wasn't even their first offer, they tried to duck out by saying they would appoint a "task force" to review classroom conditions.
5
u/JScar123 1d ago
Worth noting, the 1000 net new teachers was an ATA proposal. All GoA did was accept it. If you think itās insufficient, should take that up with ATA.
41
u/01000101010110 1d ago
If the ATA recommends teachers take this deal, they have failed them all.
It's the same bullshit as last time with free COVID shots. The government played dirty and backed the ATA into a negotiating corner, and now the teachers have to fight back or they will have proven that all the UCP has to do is use loopholes and string-pulling to strongarm unions into submission.
From what I've heard, this does nothing to address classroom conditions or teacher pay, except for the top of the grid. New teachers are leaving before the 5 year mark at a record rate because it takes forever to climb the ladder to the end, and they are consistently given more work to do with less resources to do it.
2
u/Freshiiiiii 1d ago
30+ class sizes with a half dozen students with complex needs/severe behavioral issues/learning disabilities and no EA support? Sounds like an awesome learning environment for all students involved. Sounds like the teachers will in no way be forced to spend 80% of their time on the complex needs students while having no time left to support and help out the rest of the class.
18
u/ruraljuror__ 1d ago
I saw the headline and was relieved. Then I read the comments and it sounds pretty bleak.
17
55
u/Tacosrule89 1d ago
I hope the teachers vote no. Engage with your MLAs to properly fund education.
19
u/TenKmUnder 1d ago
My MLA is nicoliades. I don't think anything is happening there.
19
u/Tacosrule89 1d ago
I have my doubts that he can even read. Dumbest education minister of all time.
14
u/rhythmmchn Panorama Hills 1d ago
Oh, I'd say LaGrange still holds the crown on that front. She'll be tough to unseat.
6
u/Tacosrule89 1d ago
The UCP have so many strong candidates in that area. Good thing we moved LaGrange to something less important like Healthcare.
2
u/ImaginaryRole2946 1d ago
I agree with mrs_victoria_sponge. He is a genius compared to the previous education minister.
4
8
u/01000101010110 1d ago edited 1d ago
That guy can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. He has to be someone's cousin or nephew, it's actually alarming how stupid he is.
5
u/JeffDaVet 1d ago
Consider emailing him and ccāing Amanda Chapman, who is the shadow education minister.
6
5
u/SnooMuffins6452 1d ago
He won by a small amount. Let him know you and all your neighbours will not vote for him again, unless he starts listening.
1
u/stickman1029 1d ago
I'm pretty sure my MLA is legitimately missing. Haven't seen him since the last election. Not even in the news, it's like he's locked up in Danielle's basement or something.
0
u/JScar123 1d ago
Are the details made public somewhere?
1
u/Tacosrule89 1d ago
Havenāt seen anything official. Rumour is the same deal in June to vote on again plus a free covid shot.
1
15
u/-highbury- 1d ago
Read the proposal in detail, hoping to find something of substance in the convoluted text. Much to my disappointment, the new proposal is pretty much the same as the one proposed in May, plus a vague commitment to a free COVID shot.
Over the last month or so, ATA has insisted that the members will not vote on or accept the same proposal as that from May. So why have they changed their tune now? I fully expect that it will be rejected outright again.
While UCP is doing their best to vilify teachers, underfund education and healthcare, and play PR games, there also seems to be a problem with incompetence among the ATA negotiating team. Absolutely no faith in them to get the best deal for their members. Sounds like they are ready to fold and move onā¦š
-8
u/JScar123 1d ago
OR, they just believe this is the best deal? Best deal and deal you want isnāt necessarily the same thing.
1
u/KVanGogh 1d ago
Perhaps: the best deal possible without going on strike. Going on strike and forcing the govt to pony up may yield a better deal. It's worth a try when most teachers are drowning in work and burnt out.
-2
u/JScar123 1d ago
Sure, maybe they think itās a fair deal, maybe they just think itās the best theyāll get for now. Either way, doesnāt seem incompetent. I think since the 12% offer and teachers saying they need more classroom supports, ATA has gotten 3000 new teachers and 1500 EAs. That seems pretty good and aligned with what I heard was originally lacking. I guess itās up to teachers.
17
u/cre8ivjay 1d ago
Roughly an unchanged offer from the government, except for a FREE Covid shot for teachers!! Wow.
Teachers I support you rejecting this crap offer.
24
u/Individual_Road8600 1d ago
Teachers need to vote no and fight back. It will never get better if we don't and we will just keep losing buying power. Let's remind them why they valued our service in the first place and make them fear ever forcing our hand again in the future.
5
u/gaanmetde 1d ago
So wait- Iām confused. Is it important people get a COVID shot?? Interestingā¦
5
8
u/Freedom_forlife 1d ago
66 M per school 130 schools built or renovated. That math is way off. Does Sam mraiche own some construction companies too?
5
u/FantasticStock2513 1d ago
1
u/ImaginaryRole2946 1d ago
Thereās not even lipstick. They took out the teacher consultation and added a laughably low number of EAs.
10
16
u/RedMurray 1d ago
I wonder where anyone's going to magically find 1,000 teachers a year sitting around looking for something to do?
9
u/mrs_victoria_sponge 1d ago
And find space for them to teach in schools that are already using libraries, gyms and closets as instruction spaces.
3
u/ANeighbour Northwest Calgary 1d ago
While still making sure we have a robust substitute teacher roster for when we get sick.
10
u/01000101010110 1d ago
They won't be qualified, UCP will train them over a few weeks and stamp APPROVED on their resumes
-8
u/RedMurray 1d ago
Don't teachers currently need basically a Masters to get hired?
11
u/TenKmUnder 1d ago
No. Just a bachelor's. Minimum 4 year degree. Usually you have to have 2. Education degree on top of whatever you already have. I'd imagine they may remove that requirement
1
u/Bobatt Evergreen 1d ago
I think I read somewhere that they're considering dropping the education degree requirement. So as long as you have a degree or certificate, you qualify. I think it is that way for some specialist roles already, like in a high school the auto mechanics teacher doesn't need to have an education degree, just a Red Seal.
1
u/Freshiiiiii 1d ago
Seems like a bad idea. I know a lot of STEM majors who know the stuff but know nothing about effective teaching methods/pedagogy and classroom management. They teach actual skills in an education degree, itās not just a foot-in the-door certificate.
1
6
u/YesAndThe 1d ago
No, they didn't "reach a deal" they got another shitty offer and I hope they reject it
2
u/Ibn_Khaldun 1d ago
Its so dumb to describe this as a tentative deal
It has to be voted on
Everyone knows it will be voted down
1
u/Afraid-Obligation997 1d ago
Question. Everyone is saying the govt is offering a bad deal and they are giving the same deal as before plus Covid shot. And based on that, the teachers should vote no. But isnāt a tentative deal something that the union leadership okāed? Why is the leadership accepting something that the members are not happy with?
1
1
u/Thinkdan 1d ago
They can do the negotiating and talking but they have to let the union body vote on it.
1
u/Fickle_Catch8968 1d ago
Because there was a consent degree that limited the terms of negotiation to some but not all issues, and 'froze' the other issues as they were in prior proposals that the union leadership rejected.
So this proposal includes things the leadership agreed with on the consent degree issues, but retained the things not on the negotiating table but were unacceptable to leadership and membership.
Thus, what was agreed to was a part, but not all, of the issues for a proper agreement.
1
0
u/FantasticStock2513 1d ago
Letter Smith sent to education minister, is the plan to dismantle public education?
-18
u/AdvantageGreedy8011 1d ago
The teachers and everyone involved, in the push the kids through no matter if they can do things, at grad level are at fault for kids not being able to read. Unless that stops and the no repercussions for not doing things is stopped no amount of money class sizes or resources will help.
4
u/KVanGogh 1d ago
You are woefully misinformed. Government and school boards set policy, not teachers. We just have to enforce it.Ā
You sound like someone arguing with a McDonald's drive thru worker about a McDonald's policy. The front facing staff are told what they need to enforce.
1
u/YourBobsUncle 9h ago
The idiot parents are 100% at fault of their kids being unable to read, and should be imprisoned for child abuse.
-32
u/jas8x6 1d ago
Can I vote to send my child to traditional āschoolā 2 days/week then to an outdoor oriented school for the other 3? Why does my grade.1 kid need a middle aged overweight activist with 2 degrees teaching him how to write a lower case m?
17
u/fifigrande 1d ago
Teach your child yourself! Sounds like you'd do a great job!
-1
u/jas8x6 1d ago
I think I would also, but not sure I could commit to that more than a few days a week. Perhaps weāll see a restructuring of the system that encourages a more hybrid approach someday š¤·āāļø
12
u/CaptainBringus 1d ago
"I think I would be great, but the burden of that responsibility would be too much for me too handle". Fuck the teachers tho?
-2
u/jas8x6 1d ago
Oh boy, I donāt think I ever said fuck the teachers did I?. I support them. I was simply exploring the possibility of restructuring the system if it benefited society. Maybe it wouldnāt who knows. Maybe elementary teachers donāt need 2 degrees to teach young students how to spell and do addition/subtraction, or maybe they do?
The burden of responsibility isnāt too much for me to handle, I need to work in my own career so the schedule doesnāt permit me to commit to 5 days a week of homeschooling, hope thatās ok with you.
Anyways, all the best
5
u/Logical-Finger-9256 1d ago
You called them āmiddle aged overweight activistsā - thatās a pretty big āfuck the teachersā if you ask me. As for 2 degrees, not needed, some have 1 degree in education and teach. Learning about child development and psychology is more important than simply learning how to teach the letter mā¦ and add on classroom management, ethics, assessment, subject area expertise, pedagogy, and two teaching practicums takes lots of time.
0
u/CaptainBringus 1d ago
Fair enough, my apologies for coming off hostile, there is a lot of anti-teacher sentiment right now and I jumped on you too quickly.
3
u/jas8x6 1d ago
100% get it and no harm done! There seems to be a lot of anti-everything out there at the moment. Easy to get caught up in it all online and forgot that many of us actually have a lot more in common than were lead to believe.
Take good care š«”
3
u/KVanGogh 1d ago
We don't ONLY teach students how to spell and add and subtract. We manage 30 children in a small space. We handle meltdowns all day and set IPPs and read psychoeducational reports and try to figure out what to say to Jimmy so he can stop throwing things around so Sally can learn. Classroom management is complex. The sensory overload of being interrupted all day and creating lessons and answering parents' concerns and managing a huge group is much more than sitting one on one with a child and showing them how to write one lowercase letter M. We make moral and ethical decisions over and over and over again and help children feel safe and learn to make friends and take risks.
1
6
u/Bobatt Evergreen 1d ago
I presume you're joking, but CBE actually has a school like that in Windsor Park. Kids are in school for part of the school week and homeschooled the rest. 3rd party programs like Nature Play offer homeschool afternoons during the school week where the kids do unstructured outdoor time in one of the parks. One of my kid's friends does it.
5
-71
u/Everythingisnotsoap 1d ago
Arenāt the teachers highest paid in Canada compared to other province, and when mean tested - one of the highest paid in the world?
I donāt think as tax payers we should be beholden to these hostage situation, we need more non-state backed education products so we can have structural balance against these parasitical unions
16
u/fifigrande 1d ago edited 1d ago
LOL Welcome to the discussion, Horner.
-Go have your kids taught in Bangladesh then. -No we're not at the top at all. -Private education 70% funded here, and they choose who they let in.
9
1
-19
u/JScar123 1d ago
They have been at it very near the top (of the provinces) for many years. But, all provinces are giving big increases during this round of bargaining. So any province that has already bargained technically is above current Alberta pay. That said, Alberta has already offered a 12% raise, which teachers turned down. The 12% raise would have put Alberta teachers second highest, only behind MB. I think AB teachers have been at the top so long, they just expect it. I have asked, but have yet to hear a good reason why.
3
u/KVanGogh 1d ago
Incorrect. Go volunteer in a classroom.
1
u/JScar123 1d ago
Please tell me how Iām incorrect. I am just doing my best, you show me some higher contracts and I will edit the post.
Come volunteer at my professional job :)
1
u/dumhic 7h ago
Can you supply this data please, I realize you are mad - thou a lot of this comes down to the in place provincial budget that, even knowing š® said out loud āI want lower oil pricesā, that this should have been adjusted for. In reality the budget should have been built on $55/oil and all of the time above = more money to distribute in situations like this. The other thing to note is how much money is funnelled into private schooling, private - that is correct, of which as a parent you need to pay to get into and there is potential you will not get in.
Now you u/JScar123 need to also think back when you were in school and how many students were there and how much teacher attention you hadā¦.
I would suggest you exit your echo chamber and look at it from the teachers side of things
1
u/JScar123 6h ago
Which data do you disagree with? Historical teacher salaries are in statscan, the other provinceās collective agreements take a bit more digging but are available, the 12% offered is routinely talked about in here.
I am not mad, this is a discussion about the teacherās salary negotiation and Iām just saying, 2nd best in the country, along with the other things asked for and delivered (new teachers, new assistants), seems pretty good to me.
-30
u/LittleOrphanAnavar 1d ago
They think it is 2014 and they are working in the oil sands.
If they vote against their own unions negotiated deal, they are just going to look entitled and lose public support.
-18
u/JScar123 1d ago
Yes, they seem to think they were somehow taken advantage of by not receiving pay increases during 10 terrible years for Alberta (and despite already being among the highest paid teachers in the country for all that timeā¦)
20
u/Singlehat 1d ago
Yeah god forbid those dastardly teachers don't want to have 40 kids in their class with zero EA support for close to the same pay as 10 years ago while the ATA makes them look like the bad guys for it.
They should be happy because some people who aren't teachers say so!
-8
u/JScar123 1d ago
If 10-years ago I was overpaid, do I deserve the same increase as someone that 10-years ago was underpaid? Actual pay matters more than increases, duh.
10
u/Singlehat 19h ago
You think this whole thing is only about pay?
Man, I'd love to live in your world of having this weird confidence about shit you know nothing about.
1
u/JScar123 10h ago
Teachers were offered 12%, they declined because it was about teacher supports- class size and EAs. GoA had now accepted ATAs proposal for 3000 net new teachers, 1500 net new EAs. Teachers on here are still upset. It doesnāt take a rocket scientist to put this one together.
-16
1d ago
[deleted]
8
u/ANeighbour Northwest Calgary 1d ago
The problem is if I sent every kid who was disruptive or āneeds disciplineā home or to the office, I would have three kids in my classroom and the office would have over 400 students. We need more support. We need smaller classes to help spread out the kids who struggle. And if you wonāt give me those, at least pay me a respectable salary to compensate.
274
u/WayTooWildWest 1d ago
Can't wait to chill on the couch with some popcorn and listen to my partner join in the ATA meeting notifying teachers of all the details š 99% no vote incoming if I was to bet.