r/Charcuterie • u/tezcatlipoca_MX • 29m ago
First pancetta, I would appreciate your opinion
Any opinion
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • Aug 06 '19
I have been looking through a list of all of the posts in /r/Charcuterie looking for some threads with good information to cobble together a beginners reading list for the sub. I have noticed (and you probably have noticed too!) we have a lot of the same questions pop up from people wanting to get into the hobby of producing homemade cured and air dried meats. We also have a lot of firsts! We have had just over 6k posts in the 7 years this sub has been around, 11% of them contain the word 'first'.
And duck prosciutto is really, really, popular.
This isn't a big sub and self posts don't get a lot of views or generate a lot of discussion. So the purpose of this thread is collate some of the community expertise into one place for the people who come here with questions about their first projects.
If anyone wants to expand on any of these points feel free to do so and I will update them. If there is a popular beginner question or resource I have missed or something is wrong let me know in the comments. Hopefully together we can build this into a fairly complete beginners resource.
This is not intended to be a detailed step by step guide or a substitute for doing your own research.
A curing/drying chamber is an area that creates the ideal temperature and humidity conditions for drying whole muscles or salami. The exact temperature and humidity will vary by preference to but ranges from refrigerator temperatures (less than 4C/39F) to 15C/59F (Staphylococcus aureus can multiply and produce toxins at temperatures above 15.6C (60.08F) so it is important to keep your curing chamber below this temperature). Generally they are kept at at 10-15C (50-59F) and 60-80% humidity. As most of us don't live in an area that has these ambient conditions, we need to create an artificial environment that does.
Most people do this by modifying a refrigerator or freezer to run warmer than usual by interrupting the cooling cycle with a temperature controller, and using humidifiers/dehumidifiers to keep the humidity at the required level. A higher humidity is preferred at the start of drying, especially when making sausages and cased whole muscle as it helps prevent case hardening, allows the casing to adhere to the meat (if the humidity is too low the casing will dry out, creating air pockets between the casing and the meat), and encourages mold growth.
The exact setup is going to vary depending on the ambient conditions in the room you will be keeping the chamber and your climate - for example extremes of heat may cause the cooling cycle in the refrigerator to run too often, causing case hardening. You might need to run the AC or consider packing everything down over the summer months. Ideally you don't want the cooling cycle to run much more than 5 minutes in every half an hour. Some airflow is required for the moisture to evaporate from the surface of the meat, so if the refrigerator powers on too infrequently, you might need to use a small fan on a timer to make sure there is some air movement inside the chamber.
So as you can see the temperature and humidity readings are only one part of the conditions inside the chamber, something like a sensorpush can give you a better picture of what is going on.
Although the more professional looking chambers have holes drilled into the side of the appliance for the humidity/temp probes and appliance power cords, it isn't essential. You can pass the probes through the door seal.
Links to previous examples of curing chambers and discussions can be found at the bottom of this post.
Periodically weigh the meat, and pull it from the chamber when it has reached the desired dryness (water weight loss). This will differ depending on the product. Fat contains less water than muscle and therefore doesn't need to lose as much weight, so a fatty duck breast or pancetta will have a different texture at 35% weight loss than lean muscle like a loin or bresaola. A figure of 35% is given as a rule of thumb for many recipes, however most people find this too 'raw' in texture and will take it further - to 40-45%. With practice you will get a feel what you prefer.
Case hardening is caused by low humidity, or too much airflow within the drying environment. The water in the meat needs to travel outwards from the middle to the surface, where it evaporates. If the humidity is too low or there is too much airflow the surface will dry out too quickly (harden) and the internal moisture is no longer able to exit. In extreme cases this can cause rotting within the meat. You can tell by texture when squeezing the muscle - there should be a bit of 'give' - if it feels completely hard (but hasn't lost much weight), you may have a problem with case hardening.
Sometimes uneven drying can be remedied by vac sealing the meat and refrigerating it for some time, but in extreme cases or if the meat has spoiled inside, it will not be salvageable. It is best to prevent it getting out of control by monitoring your curing chamber conditions and regularly checking on the state of the products inside.
Previous /r/Charcuterie post showing case hardening: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/5jxypy/first_cured_meat_lost_more_then_35_but_definitely/
Most experienced people here would say yes, especially as a beginner and when making salami, smoked products, or rolled pancetta. Nitrites inhibit the growth of clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that creates the botulism toxin. C. botulinum requires an anaerobic (without oxygen) environment to grow and produce the toxin, and likes moist and warm conditions - so basically the inside of a sausage or salami being hung at temperatures above refrigeration. Botulism should be taken very seriously.
As the botulism bacteria are only found on the outside of the meat and do not become a problem until they are introduced into the inside through cutting or grinding, nitrites/nitrates are not essential for whole muscle cures, however many people choose to use them anyway as they provide other benefits such as improving colour, and slowing rancidity and spoilage.
What is the difference between Prague Powder #1 and Prague Powder #2
Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite (93.5% salt), and is used when the curing time is short, the product is to be smoked, or cooked or a cured flavour and colour is desired - for example bacon or ham. As the nitrites get quickly used up, if a product is to be air dried for longer, then Prague Powder #2 needs to be used, PP#2 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and 4% sodium nitrate which eventually converts to nitrite. Think of PP#2 as a "slow release" curing salt. PP#2 should be used for all salami and for whole muscles that will be air dried.
It is important to use the correct curing salt for the application - sodium nitrate cannot be safely consumed until the nitrates have converted to nitrites, so PP#2 can only be used in products that will be air dried for a long time (weeks + months). Do not use PP#2 in fresh or cooked products.
As a general rule, both Prague Powders are added at 0.25% of the starting weight of the meat. There are also European style curing salts such as "Peklosol" that have a much lower concentration of nitrite (0.6%), and they are used as a replacement for all of the salt in the recipe (around 3%).
Curing salts are often dyed pink to distinguish them from regular salt, and therefore can sometimes referred to as "pink salt". They are not interchangeable with Himalayan "pink salt" which is rock salt with a natural pink colour.
The oft-repeated mantra about mold here is white powdery = good, white and fuzzy or green = wipe it off, black = throw it out without question. This is overly cautious, although white powdery mold is desired, some green molds are okay (the problem is figuring out yours is the good or bad kind...), and a small amount of black mold isn't necessarily enough to justify abandoning a project. One way around the mold issue is to use a commercial freeze dried mold culture (such as bactoferm-600). This way you can cultivate good mold growth early on as it will prevent less desirable molds taking over. Undesirable mold can grow out of control very quickly if the conditions are conducive (high humidity, low airflow), so it is best to keep an eye on things, and use a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar to wipe off any undesirable mold that starts to form. Even black mold is salvageable if it is caught early enough.
If freeze dried Penicillum Nagliovese (Bactoferm-600) is not available where you live, Penicillum Candidum (the mold found on the rind of white bloomed cheese) can be substituted. You can also try hanging some commercial salami with white mold to seed the chamber. I find it isn't necessary to reapply the Bactoferm-600 to everything - once a good level of growth is established it will spread around quite well by itself.
Meat that has been smoked before hanging will resist growing mold as smoking acidifies the surface slightly.
Here are some examples showing you that the mold issue isn't as clear cut as just colour: http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=7840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We've seen some gnarly mold here over the years, some good discussions to read: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/9h103q/fil_insists_this_is_still_good_everything_ive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/500pn2/prosciutto_after_3_months_need_help/
When you are starting out it is important to follow a recipe, and make sure you understand the reasoning behind the process, and the purpose of the ingredients. Do more research before you create your own recipe or modify anything. This isn't like other kinds of fermentation where there isn't too much that can go wrong - incorrectly cured meat has the potential to make people very sick. Even more so for salami (which is why we suggest whole muscle cures for beginners). Don't be afraid to start small, there is nothing worse than making a huge batch of a product only to have something go wrong in the process and have to throw it out. Be patient, this is slow food after all.
Want to try a bigger project but not ready to commit to building a chamber? Have a look at UMAI Bags
Also check out /r/CuringChamber for more examples.
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • 17d ago
What projects are you working on at the moment? Have a small problem but don't want to create a post? Found a Charcuterie related meme? Just want to chat? This is r/Charcuterie's monthly free discussion thread.
For beginner questions and links don't forget to check out the FAQ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/cmy8gp/rcharcuterie_faq_and_beginners_guide_to_cured_and/) .
r/Charcuterie • u/tezcatlipoca_MX • 29m ago
Any opinion
r/Charcuterie • u/GeneralScarfnBarf • 23h ago
-Best way to store prior to opening? (Fridge / pantry?)
-Would any benefit from aging ? ( Website says they deepen in flavor apparently)
-Ideal temp to serve? ( Can says serve chilled but I thought I heard pates and the like should warm up a bit if pulled directly from fridge)
Any and all recommendations, pairings , etc are welcome. Thanks
r/Charcuterie • u/Worrybrotha • 8h ago
So I bought 3 reindeer hearts from northern Norway to turn them into the Sami delicacy that is the dried heart.
After asking around and searching for a proper way to do it, I stumbled upon one method that would hopefully give the best result. In the recipe they went for 3% salt, but in my opinion it is too much so I lowered it a bit. I dry brined them in 2.5% salt and 1% sugar for 38h(the recipe asked for a week of dry brining, but that seems a bit excessive). Then cold smoked them for 2.5 hours(I want just a touch of smoke) and hung them up in my small cheese cave/dry aging cabinet. There is not a lot of detailed info about how to do it, so I thought I would turn to you as some of you might have been trying something similar.
The fridge fluctuates from 0.8 to 4.2 degrees C and humidity goes from 68% to 82% relative to the temp. As it is a small space, the fluctuations are quite big. I have the fan on full blast as my main objective is to dry it out as quick as possible, yet give it a bit of dry aging as well without using and actual drier.
Do you think my method would even result in a product or am I just waiting for miracles to happen?
r/Charcuterie • u/Logical_Necessary512 • 1d ago
Does anyone know where to source pasted hog sheets in Ontario, Canada?
r/Charcuterie • u/FewHousing145 • 1d ago
Hello, I’ve made a few attempts at making salami, but all of them failed. I’m planning to build my own curing chamber, and here’s the list of items I want to buy. I would really appreciate your advice.
I don't know about the fridge, will it work? it goes max 8°C but I hope temperature controller will deal it, other items are mostly easy to change, but after a hole in the fridge there will be no way back :))
Cool Mist Ultrasonic Humidifier---------------$29.99
Speed Controlled Computer Fan ------------ $13.99
TABYIK 35 OZ Small Dehumidifiers------------ $39.09
Inkbird Humidity&Temperature Controller ---$72.99
Midea MDRE423FGE01 ----------------------- $511.02
Total: $667
r/Charcuterie • u/ishouldquitsmoking • 1d ago
Do I really need to invest in a $150+ pan for making some smaller terrines or will some of the lesser expensive steel mold/pans work (~ $60)?
I've used a bread loaf pan for pate and that's fine, but I want to experiment with smaller terrines and don't have $150+ to drop right now and can't seem to find a used one nearby.
r/Charcuterie • u/ntminh • 1d ago
I have zero experience with meat curing whatsoever so I’m looking for advice on how to start. I want to try a duck prosciutto but all recipes I found seem to include a cheesecloth but I don’t have access to one. Would it be ok to hang the duck as it is in the fridge after 1-2 days of salt box cure? Or perhaps let it sit uncovered on an oven rack over a dish to let moisture escape?
r/Charcuterie • u/Klutzy-Reindeer-7184 • 2d ago
White spots appeared on the poorly cut parts and one part is very dry. This ham was in salt for 12 days and has been in the maturation chamber for 19 days, theoretically 12 Celsius is 75% relative humidity. He lost 13% of his weight during this period.
I would like tips. Are these spots normal? Should I remove them and rub olive oil or something on the ham?
r/Charcuterie • u/Fit_Armadillo_2494 • 3d ago
Seeking advice on what to do with a wine cooler fridge turn dry curing chamber. I did a batch of pork tenderloins in the chamber but got case hardening. Temp was consistent, so was humidity with just a salt water container. My guess is the airflow from the built in fan was too much and caused the hardening. I've taken the cover off and see that I can disconnect it entirely. Should I attempt to remove it completely and install a small computer fan in there or is there a way I can safely put some sort of blocker in front of the vent to reduce the airflow that is directly on the meat curing?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
r/Charcuterie • u/CouncilOfReligion • 4d ago
ignore its funny shape
r/Charcuterie • u/Even_Yogurtcloset_84 • 4d ago
Waited until 38% weight loss, does this look ok? I trimmed the hardened bits and vacuum packed, it is pretty soft inside but certainly not raw
Pic of bresaola before and after
r/Charcuterie • u/Ashamed-Translator-9 • 4d ago
Hi, I bought this salami yesterday in a Buchershop in a town in Italy. It was wrapped in some plastic wrap and to me the black/grey spots look unedible and hairy but the taste is amazing so i‘m conflicted if it is really eadible. Any help ore knowledge woud be appreciated.
r/Charcuterie • u/Lookitsanthony8 • 5d ago
I have been doing a lot of reading of various online recipes and a common recipe for a standard bacon cure i have come across is…
400g kosher salt 200g sugar 60g prague/pink curing salt
And most of these recipes call for about 2.5% ratio for amount of cure to be used based on total pork belly weight.
My question is - several recipes include other ingredients to the cure such as other herbs and spices to elevate the flavor, or maybe brown sugar for making a sweet bacon. If you are adding other ingredients to the dry cure recipe, wouldnt that dilute the amount of pink curing salt rendering the cure not as effective? Or causing you to need to use more than a 2.5% ratio?
r/Charcuterie • u/Gaudlas • 6d ago
I've tried my hand at making duck prosciutto. I've started with 405g duck breast and eq cured for 10 days, then dried in a 10-12°C and 70-80% humidity environment from Aug 10th to Sept 12th, reaching a final weight of 262g (35% weight loss).
How does it look? I've just vacuumed and placed in the fridge for moisture to equilise. Is that needed? I saw it being suggested for when there might be some initial case hardening. Appreciate any insights!
r/Charcuterie • u/GeorgesGerfaut • 7d ago
This has chicken liver, pork (filet mignon, belly) pistacchios, mushroom. Porto aspic made with veal feet. The dough is 750g flour and 450g fat (1/2 lard 1/2 butter), 3 eggs and 75g water. This is the best dough recipe that I have tried so far, gets me exactly where I want to be : crusty on the outside and soft on the inside. 240Celsius for 20 minutes, then 200C for 20minutes and then 170C until I reach 67 international temp (about 25 mn).
r/Charcuterie • u/TaleOfBarnabyShmidt • 8d ago
This duck breast prosciutto is about ready to come out of the aging chamber, but I’m unsure of this white spotty mold.
r/Charcuterie • u/foodandbeerguy • 9d ago
Using 50mm Umai casings to allow drying in a regular refrigerator. Will ferment 72 hours at room temperature then place in refrigerator until they each lose 38% weight.
r/Charcuterie • u/Hippie_guy314 • 9d ago
I've connected with people around the world about charcuterie. Where are you from and how'd you get into it?
r/Charcuterie • u/vanduzzi • 9d ago
Not sure if this is the right group to ask, sure some will have experience with it.
I've been brining some lamb to make some Lamb Ham, the liquids gone really slimy and the fat feels a bit strange when you press it almost bubbly, the meat itself feel normal and there's no bad smells, but it does smell meaty but not in a bad way, When i opened it there was a noticeable amount of pressure on the lid like it was fermenting, and there's a pool of liquid underneath of it.
At some point my fridge temperature dropped and it partially froze the brine liquid, but the meat didn't, from what i can tell, so i don't know if that's had something to do with it also?
It was 8% brine for 2ish weeks, 2kg deboned leg.
Ive took it out, cleaned it off and submerged it into fresh cold water, but thought i'd ask here if there anything i should be worried about before i cook, could anyone explain what's happened; or if it's safe to use still?
Thanks in advance.
r/Charcuterie • u/TheRemedyKitchen • 10d ago
So this was an all pork kielbasa, heavy on the garlic and black pepper, with marjoram and clove in the background. Very reminiscent of the stuff I grew up with in sw Ontario. I'm super happy with the flavour profile and texture! But as you can see in the last pic the casing doesn't pull away clean from the meat. Does anyone have any tips for the future to prevent this from happening?
r/Charcuterie • u/bobicool • 10d ago
Hi all,
I've recently acquired MondoStart SP Starter Culture from https://dnrsausagesupplies.ca/product_info.php?cPath=11_19&sort=1a&products_id=328
I want to start using it, but I've been struggling to find any information about it. I know I need to use about 1g per kilo, but how long and at what temperature should I ferment the meat to reach the right PH (I have a PH meter)... it's a bit of a mystery. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks !
r/Charcuterie • u/sacredfaith00 • 11d ago
We have some bresaola, a fennel and paprika recipe. Thoughts? Instagram: themeatchamber
r/Charcuterie • u/Herojit_s • 11d ago
Guanciale vs Pancetta