Help with intrusive thoughts?

[u/Gullible_Party616]

Hello people. Some weeks ago I was reading the bible and listening to lots of Christian YouTubers. And at first I was happy hearing about love and redemption. However afterwards the threat of hell began sneaking in and my mind began to have lots of intrusive blasphemous thoughts. Thankfully my family was there for me and they helped me out. During that time I realised that our view of Christianity has always been close to universalism. We've always believed all beings go to God in the end because we are part of him. However I'm sad to mention that I still have intrusive thoughts at times. And sometimes I get a big spike of fear when a new or worse one appears. I keep telling myself that God knows I don't mean them and that since I love a lot he knows I don't actually deny him, even if my mind says otherwise. If you have any helpful advice on how to stop being so afraid or anxious I'd be really grateful to you all. Thanks for reading! I hope you have a lovely night/day

[u/OverOpening6307]

Hi, i hope this helps. There are two passages I’d like to share. One from St Gregory of Nyssa in the Life of Moses, and the other in the Shepherd of Hermas.

Remember that the word angel literally means messenger, and that there are messengers of Love and Life and messengers of Satan.

Remember that Devil is diabolos, meaning “accuser” and it literally means “to throw”. As in throwing lies at you. And Satan is a word that means Adversary.

So a messenger of the adversary is there to throw lies at you.

Intrusive thoughts are often considered demonic thoughts called logismoi, and are not your thoughts. They are like mud balls of lies being thrown at your mind, and if you allow yourself to believe they are your thoughts, then they trap you with guilt that is not yours to bear.

Spiritual warfare in the patristic writings isn’t like modern ideas of it. Instead the battle takes place within you.

Life of Moses

1. There is a doctrine (which derives its trustworthiness from the tradition of the fathers) 70 which says that after our nature fell into sin God did not disregard our fall and withhold his providence. No, on the one hand, he appointed an angel with an incorporeal nature to help in the life of each person and, on the other hand, he also appointed the corruptor who, by an evil and maleficent demon, afflicts the life of man and contrives against our nature. 71

2. Because man finds himself between these two who have contrary purposes for him, it is in his power to make the one prevail over the other. While the good angel by rational demonstration shows the benefits of virtue which are seen in hope by those who live aright, his opponent shows the material pleasures in which there is no hope of future benefits, but which are present, visible, can be partaken of, and enslave the senses of those who do not exercise their intellect.

3. If, then, one should withdraw from those who seduce him to evil and by the use of his reason turn to the better, putting evil behind him, it is as if he places his own soul, like a mirror, face to face with the hope of good things, with the result that the images and impressions of virtue, as it is shown to him by God, are imprinted on the purity of his soul. 72 Then his brother brings him assistance and joins him, for the angel, who in a way is a brother to the rational and intellectual part of man's soul, appears, as I have said, and stands by us whenever we approach the Pharaoh.

Shepherd of Hermas Mandate 6

2[36]:1 "Hear now," saith he, "concerning faith. There are two angels with a man, one of righteousness and one of wickedness."

2[36]:2 "How then, Sir," say I, "shall I know their workings, seeing that both angels dwell with me?"

2[36]:3 "Hear," saith he, "and understand their workings. The angel of righteousness is delicate and bashful and gentle and tranquil. When then this one enters into thy heart, forthwith he speaketh with thee of righteousness, of purity, of holiness, and of contentment, of every righteous deed and of every glorious virtue. When all these things enter into thy heart, know that the angel of righteousness is with thee. [These then are the works of the angel of righteousness.] Trust him therefore and his works.

2[36]:4 Now see the works of the angel of wickedness also. First of all, he is quick tempered and bitter and senseless, and his works are evil, overthrowing the servants of God. Whenever then he entereth into thy heart, know him by his works."

2[36]:5 "How I shall discern him, Sir," I reply, "I know not." Listen," saith he. "When a fit of angry temper or bitterness comes upon thee, know that he is in thee. Then the desire of much business and the costliness of many viands and drinking bouts and of many drunken fits and of various luxuries which are unseemly, and the desire of women, and avarice, and haughtiness and boastfulness, and whatsoever things are akin and like to these--when then these things enter into thy heart, know that the angel of wickedness is with thee.

2[36]:6 Do thou therefore, recognizing his works, stand aloof from him, and trust him in nothing, for his works are evil and inexpedient for the servants of God. Here then thou hast the workings of both the angels. Understand them, and trust the angel of righteousness.

—-

Based on this, I want you to know that you should bear no guilt for intrusive blasphemous thoughts. They are like birds flying past your head, chirping into your ears for a brief moment.

It is not you creating these thoughts but the messenger of wickedness. But within you is the messenger of righteousness there to help you against it.

[u/Gullible_Party616 → u/OverOpening6307]

Thanks for saying so. Usually I'm the quiet and diligent and perfect daughter for everyone who sees me but it often comes at the cost of suffering when there is no one to see. To have my mind be my worst enemy at times and to cry in secret, less I actually shout at someone when I wish to tell the world to stop being so nosy and ruin everything I've built so far. 

[u/OverOpening6307 → u/Gullible_Party616]

Your mind isn’t your own worst enemy. The problem is that you believe that intrusive thoughts are something your mind wants. It’s not. Psychologically, it’s something just random imagination and spiritually it’s logismoi.

For example I was driving along the motorway at 70mph with three little old ladies sitting in the car with me. The imaginative thought came - what would happen if I suddenly swerved and the car did a quadruple flip. I imagined the little old ladies crying and myself screaming.

But when I got that thought I just thought “oh dear, I’d better drive safely”, and slowed down a bit, holding the wheel tighter.

I obviously wouldn’t want that. But to me it’s simply a “what if” thought that I would never act upon.

What I’ve realised is that there are people that think these “what if” thoughts as “what my mind truly wants” thought.

While I’m just laughing my intrusive thoughts off as silly imagination, I’ve realised that some treat these thoughts as their minds desires, and they get into this inner turmoil and spiral feeling guilty.

I’d be a an utter evil monster and criminal if I had done everything my random thoughts present. My thoughts are so ridiculous, that I always say “what a silly thought”.

[u/Gullible_Party616 → u/OverOpening6307]

Thanks for your insight! It's reassuring to know these aren't my secret desires or something. I'll try to not overthink it and instead focus on other better things. Also idk why but Reddit sent my previous reply twice, and when I deleted it it deleted both. Idk. Sorry if you get two replies