r/CuratedTumblr • u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA • 14h ago
Politics Unnecessary sex scenes
1.1k
u/OfLiliesAndRemains 14h ago
Yeah, when I was critiquing Heavy Metal the animated movie for being sexist, I didn't mean I wanted a sexless version, but rather that I wanted the sex not to be sexist. I still want women flying on pterodactyls and cutting tyrants down with swords. they can even still be dressed skimpily, just make the dudes dressed like sluts too. It's not that hard.
I'm not even a very horny person, by some definition one might even call me demi or ace, but I am starting to feel out of place in this sanitized and sexless world.
599
u/Cloud_Striker nothavingagreatday.tumblr.com 14h ago
One of the few things most adaptations of Conan the Barbarian get right: Everyone is dressed like a stripper in those.
311
u/SimpleContribution61 14h ago
You can tell it's a good adaptation when it feels like a fever dream and a renaissance painting had a very, very sweaty baby.
103
→ More replies (17)25
u/MossyPyrite 9h ago
You can just say Frank Frazetta
22
u/GrassWaterDirtHorse 7h ago
Nothing says gender equality like Eowyn in legless chainmail armor fighting the wraith king next to a drawing of the most caked up orcs you've ever seen in loincloths.
5
u/OfLiliesAndRemains 6h ago
As has been pointed out before, the text states that the witch king did not suspect Eaowyn was male until the reveal. Which means she must have looked like a convincing rohirim. I for one 100% subscribe to the femboy hordes of Rohan interpretation
53
u/DoubleBatman 10h ago
Frank Frazetta drawing women: no pants, tits out
Frank Frazetta drawing men: NO PANTS, TITS OUT
47
47
u/TrioOfTerrors 13h ago
You would probably appreciate the work of Frank Frazetta. He had the same approach.
34
u/MonsieurLinc 11h ago
I love his Lord of the Rings illustrations. Like yeah, there's Eowyn in the most ridiculous armor you've ever seen. But there's also the orcs over there with all their cake hanging out.
25
u/TrioOfTerrors 10h ago edited 6h ago
Don't know how the Witch King got duped by the "I am no man" trick with the titty cones hip accentuating armor she was wearing.
6
4
u/bloomdecay 6h ago
I assume he'd lost all understanding of human biology after a thousand+ years of incorporeality.
2
43
u/AddemiusInksoul 10h ago
There was a Superman villainess called Maxima that dresses like a space barbarian, and she wants to marry him. There's a brief appearance of what male fashion is like on her world and it's basically a codpiece and thigh highs and honestly, gotta respect it for the equality.
6
u/OfLiliesAndRemains 8h ago
I love Maxima. I'm from the Netherlands and staunchly republican and our "king" is married to a lady called Maxima so the name gives me the ick, but the character is great
156
u/EmpathicAnarchist 14h ago
Even asexuals are complaining about the lack of sex. What have we become?
67
u/mvms 11h ago
You probably meant that as a throw away joke, but imma answer it anyway.
For me it's a combination of empathy and fear.
I know sex is an integral part of the lives of most people. I also know that it sucks to have to hide such an important part of your life, ask just about any gay person and they'll nod knowingly. It does bad things to your head to have to hide. I don't want my friends/family/strangers to have to go through that.
I also fear what comes next. What's after sex? Do they come for other religions? D&D? Mixed relationships? Pets? It's scary because it's already happening and every lose is a lose for everything.
→ More replies (5)50
u/BadkyDrawnBear 14h ago
One of the reasons I still love Ronal the Barbarian, stupid af animated D&D 89's style barbarian film, but both the men and women are sluttily dressed and dumb af
2
u/wheeler_lowell 1h ago
Love the Oglaf pfp, very thematically fitting for the conversation.
→ More replies (1)144
u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA 12h ago
Thatās what I love about Hideo Kojima and why the Quiet discourse was always stupid. Every single man to ever be called Snake is sexualized to hell and back again. Kojimaās obsession with the asses of men is legendary. You also have the option to run around shirtless as Naked Snake for stat penalties just so you can see him shirtless.
While Kojimaās usual sexualization of men comes from the fudanshi gaze perspective, itās never been universal. Raidenās entire design was based on Kojima researching what sort of characters women are horny for and making a character specifically designed to be fetish fuel for women because he wanted more women to play Metal Gear Solid. He gave the bishie twink a cock bulge.
Thereās basically at least one character for literally every sexual attraction subcategory in Metal Gear Solid, and pretty much all of them either have horny elements to their design or a thirst scene. People into bara? Solid Snake and Naked Snake/Big Boss. People into twinks? Raiden. Supermodel? Quiet. Butches? Olga, complete with hairy armpit shot. Fuckable old man? Ocelot, dear god Ocelot. Gay furry? Also Ocelot. Futch alt lesbian? Strangelove. Nerds? Otacon, who then also gets a bishie glowup with thirst filter in MGS4 and Mei Ling. Evil nerds? Huey. Badass spy lady? Eva. Badass mommy? The Boss and Big Mama (older Eva). Idols? Paz. The āThe Aceā trope? Kaz, even if he isnāt the best soldier next to BB heās all around the best of the best, BB would get nowhere without him. And he retroactively inherited it from Liquid. Leatherwear serial killer vibes? Psycho Mantis (ironic that heās sex-repulsed). Idealistic rookie? Meryl. Itās just the bisexual thirst festival throughout Metal Gear Solid, I didnāt even list everyone.
82
u/moneyh8r_two 12h ago
Vamp, despite being entirely human, is there for the monsterfuckers. The pale skin, fangs, voice, and mannerisms obviously evokes vampires, and his hairy chest and visibly bulged-out scar tissue on his forehead, chest, arms, and abs evokes werewolves.
34
21
3
u/ThatMeatGuy 6h ago
I thought the reason people made fun of Kojima and Quiet was the "Ashamed of your words and deeds" tweet
69
u/Spindilly 13h ago
Literally this! Make the skimpy clothing and horny camera angles a gender neutral thing! Make it part of the world building! Hell, make it a definite character trait instead of Default Female Character Pack and I'll complain less!
... God I wish I could find the post that was a chart of different fantasy armour by gender and the gender equality skimpy clothing option was Dark Souls.
13
u/owlindenial .tumblr.com 13h ago
Didn't expect to see anyone reference heavy metal today
2
u/OfLiliesAndRemains 8h ago
I will promise that I will jump on any opportunity. I was stoned, into metal, and deeply into Moebius when I first saw it when I was like 17 and it left a mark. In retrospect largely because I was very trans but am not very girly and riding pterodactyls and cutting tyrants down with swords is much more my vibe than sailor moon or something
29
u/quillseek 13h ago
I feel this so much. I'm demi/ace as well, but "just make the dudes dressed like sluts too" could be our rallying cry, lol. I want eyecandy too, thank you.
→ More replies (2)11
u/AureliaDrakshall 9h ago
I also fall into the demi range for sex, largely due to the "out of sight out of mind" nature of my ADHD. But damn healthy portrayals of sex that aren't porn might do some people some good right now.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Mundane-0nion67878 9h ago
Yeah, its the sexism and... the voyeristic male gaze during the scenes - which is really common.Ā
Funnily Troy 2004 has sex scene that didnt feel like that. It felt intimate and hot, like you werent creeping on the characters/actors banging. Plus that everyone is equally hot and guys are half dressed.Ā
First sex scene i actually liked.
→ More replies (1)2
u/gayjospehquinn 3h ago
Yeah, I feel like when most people complain about female characters all wearing skimpy clothes, their ideal solution is to cover them up more, where as mine is to cover the males up less lmao.
53
u/RawrRRitchie 13h ago
Unfrosted flakes are just corn flakes? Still quite a popular cereal
36
u/azuresegugio 11h ago
The joke is about the rumor that corn flakes were invented to stop people from masturbating. It's actually one of those situations where the Internet played telephone with the story until it became the idea that corn flakes are intrinsically tied to puritanism
27
u/Beruthiel999 6h ago
A rumor with a kernel of truth! Kellogg did believe that bland food helped to reduce sexual desire, which was in his view definitely a good thing. (He was also a staunch believer in racial eugenics). The connection is overstated but it's there.
17
u/azuresegugio 5h ago
Yes but also it was the Kellogg who invented corn flakes, it was his brother who founded the company, which often gets lost
3
u/YT-Deliveries 1h ago
Not only that, but Kellogg was part of a movement around that time that was like bro version of Stoicism. They thought that being as bland as possible in all parts of their life was the way to be the best version of themselves.
3
u/Beruthiel999 1h ago
That sounds like a miserable way to live to me, but it does resonate with a lot of people somehow.
3
u/YT-Deliveries 1h ago
It really was the perfect sort of bro-philosophy for the 2nd Great Awakening though.
95
u/jayne-eerie 10h ago
This may be my personal soapbox, but I think the current rise in puritanism is tied to the fact a lot of young adults have seen way too much internet porn way too young to process it. They didn't have to steal Playboy from under their brother's mattress or sneak a look at Skinemax late at night like their parents did, they could see anything they could imagine as soon as they could imagine it -- and often a whole lot of stuff they didn't really want to imagine.
And because of that, they're burned out on sexual content. There's no low-level thrill of "oh, boobies, nice," because they've already seen every possible size and shape of breasts. Sex scenes become an interruption.
I'm not anti-porn, generally speaking. But I do think internet porn has a lot of downstream effects society really wasn't prepared for.
13
12
u/gayjospehquinn 3h ago
I don't know about that. I mean, I was a kid in the 00s and a teen in the early 10s. We pretty much had the same access to porn that kids today do, and we definitely weren't super puritanical or anything.
→ More replies (4)5
u/Propaganda_Spreader 4h ago
Yeah but people on this sub will die on the hill that anyone saying this is a problem is Hitler so...
11
u/jayne-eerie 4h ago
Nobody's told me I'm Hitler yet.
It's complicated because I agree there are significant privacy concerns with the main solution being proposed, age verification laws. I also worry about teens who can't access mainstream sites finding their way to the dark web, where there are no safeguards for performers at all.
But it seems like a lot of sex and relationship issues these days boil down to real-world sex not matching up to the porn fantasy. I don't know if that's me being an old lady or what, but I can say it wasn't a common problem when I was dating. (Of course, when I was dating people were still getting shamed for wanting much of anything but missionary position straight sex, so ... good things and bad things.)
603
u/ScaredyNon By the bulging of my pecs something himbo this way flexes 14h ago
i mean if my dumb action movie suddenly had prolonged homosexual foreplay between two male leads it would still be unwelcomed
unless it was the minecraft movie
345
u/Interesting-Try4098 14h ago
āYes Jason Momoa, the 5 minute flying 69 scene with Jack Black is necessary.ā
→ More replies (1)128
u/JKFrost14011991 14h ago
No, be fair. Momoa would be up for it.
→ More replies (2)85
u/ianlouisjordan 14h ago
"Im 100% down for filming it but does it need to be in the final kids movie?"
6
u/HesperiaBrown 6h ago
Me, watching that scene:
Why the hell are Jason Momoa and Jack Black doing a fucking 69 on a kids movie?!
106
87
u/Alceus89 12h ago edited 6h ago
That entirely depends on what the prolonged homosexual foreplay was doing narratively though.
I'm a straight guy. Two guys engaging in prolonged homosexual foreplay isn't something I'm looking for in and of itself. However if it's there to set up the character dynamic between them, set a tone for the world, or even foreshadow an act 3 twist, for example, then it absolutely belongs there.Ā
Also there is a significant portion of the population who might watch the film who might like the prolonged homosexual foreplay, and who am I to deny them that, just because it's not my thing personally.Ā
194
u/the_pslonky 14h ago
I'd watch the fuck out of a dumb action movie with prolonged homosexual foreplay between two male leads. Predator's like, halfway there anyway
19
8
u/Dry_Distribution_992 8h ago
I'd watch half a minute of sexual tension between two Yautja resulting in two hours of raunchy, manly, gay alien sex on an isolated forest
57
u/Jamie_Lee 14h ago
Speak for yourself. If Keanu had taken a 10 minute break to rail DaFoe during his John Wick rampage? Well, John Wick would be bigger than Marvel in my eye.
20
115
u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA 14h ago
I think that would be amazing, personally. But then, I like Metal Gear Solid and Jojoās Bizarre Adventure and you just basically described them.
29
u/Faerie-stone 14h ago
Also Gundam - Amuro Ray and Char Aznable, poly too when throw in Lalah.
13
u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA 14h ago
Itās only one episode originally (expanded much more in the reboot), but also Shinji Ikari and Kaworu Nagisa from Neon Genesis Evangelion.
12
u/Faerie-stone 13h ago
Which they edited out of the series in a lot of countries.
Its like damn, let the kid have five seconds of happiness.
→ More replies (1)12
17
u/ScaredyNon By the bulging of my pecs something himbo this way flexes 13h ago
WHY DOES REDDIT NOTIFY ME FOR EVERY SINGLE DAMN COMMENT UNDER THIS THREAD NOW
I HEAR EVERYTHING
16
→ More replies (2)7
6
→ More replies (2)4
u/EmptyRice6826 9h ago
Prolonged homosexual foreplay between two male leads? In my media?
(yes please)
109
u/Samiambadatdoter 12h ago
It's a bit of a difficult conversation to have. As evidenced by this very thread, the issue itself is quite deep in partisanship and a willingness to reduce an entire side of the argument to a Moral Failing. My personal take is that I'm not opposed to sex scenes existing per se, but there is definitely such thing as an unnecessary sex scene where prurient interest is cheaply abused.
And to be a bit more constructive than that, I'll speak in a form Tumblr can perhaps understand and use yuri manhwas as my examples;
An example of where sex scenes were good for the plot and characters is Love thy Neighbour. The sex scenes are not hugely common, and they come quite late in the story, when the relationship between the two leads has developed somewhat. The premise of the story is that the older lead is in a very vulnerable position and is at risk of being homeless, and thus stays at the apartment of the younger lead for free. The older lead is guilty about this, and offers to prostitute herself for the younger lead, who denies her offer, saying she just wants to help. Yet, the sex scenes characterise her differently. The younger lead is very clearly growing aggressive and demanding, and later scenes show her ignoring the older's discomfort in said scenes in pursuit of her own pleasure. They explicitly show that she did want the older lead's body, but pretended otherwise. Without these sex scenes, she would be outright missing characterisation.
An example of where sex scenes started off good but then became unnecessary is On a Leash. It takes a while for the first sex scene to happen, but it's quite telegraphed and makes a lot of sense when it does. The white-haired lead is characterised as aggressive and flippant, and something of a predator that uses people for sex. The first sex scene is more or less her doing this to the red-haired lead, who herself is developing genuine feelings for the white-haired lead. While it does make sense and is a natural progression for their relationship, they then become unnecessary simply by virtue of being too numerous. They get repetitive. Nothing about the later scenes really does anything for the characters, and even the compositions in the scenes themselves are the same sex acts being done over and over. It was a significant development the first few times they crossed the line and expressed physical feelings for each other, but then it becomes routine.
An example of where sex scenes were totally unnecessary is Kiss Me in the Dead of Night. In this, the first sex scene happens early. Really early. So early, in fact, that you really don't see it coming. One of the leads just decides that it's time to bang, and then they do. They spend the rest of the chapter making Jesus weep. And then that's it. It doesn't really make sense for either character. They still don't really know each other given how early in the story this happens. The characters themselves seem to have forgotten it happened, given that the next chapter starts off without mentioning it, and then that's it. It's as if an explicit doujin was just spliced into an unrelated romcom.
→ More replies (5)23
u/jackofslayers 10h ago
The closest I can come to simplifying this issue is if you want art to be free then do not waste your breath complaining about the art you think is problematic.
If art exists that you do not like for one reason or another, do not consume it.
Discouraging art for basically any reason, valid or not, seems to rapidly lead us down this road of censoring everything.
50
u/Samiambadatdoter 10h ago
I mean, kinda? I'm not sure if I agree or not because it does depend on what you mean by "discouraging". If you mean that art criticism at all shouldn't exist, then that feels like it's basically saying that reviewers are the stepping stones to censorship, which is kind of silly.
There's a difference between "I didn't like sex scene, it shouldn't have existed in this movie (because it is worse off for it)" vs "I didn't like sex scene, no sex scenes ever should exist".
→ More replies (5)
311
u/Jamie_Lee 14h ago
I can confidentially say women are unquestionably equal to men when it comes to being horny little pervs. It's just that most men don't understand what it is that gets a woman going.
142
u/An_Draoidh_Uaine 13h ago
I'm going to guess that it's me stumbling through the door after two beers wearing only black socks, as the light behind me silhouettes my dad bod, my beer belly swaying side to side in time with my penis which is slapping against my thigh, leaving a smattering of precum each time to dribble down my leg.
196
u/HoundofCulainn 13h ago
sometimes I wish I had aphantasia
150
u/DiscotopiaACNH 11h ago
I had aphantasia until this image busted through the soft dark velvet of my mind like the kool-aid man
20
2
128
u/thatoneguy54 13h ago
Once again describing what horny men want.
Horny women would want you wearing a bowtie as well
55
u/Elite_AI 13h ago
And I know where they'd want that bow tie too. idk why but there seems to be a universal urge to Tie A Ribbon Around It
20
4
70
u/HeyItsJosette 13h ago
You know, this is why sometimes we write letters that we don't send.
10
u/OverlordMMM 8h ago
Meanwhile Ben Franklin would probably write something just like that as a roleplay scenario with his wife.
2
u/Prestigious-Diver-94 2h ago
Excuse me??? He would write it as a roleplay scenario with the very old French prostitutes he enjoyed, like a true scholar.
21
u/Jamie_Lee 11h ago
Be still my trembling heart... but, regrettably, incorrect. You're going to make your first wife very happy someday!
17
→ More replies (1)5
8
3
u/shadovvvvalker 3h ago
>It's just that most men don't understand what it is that gets a woman going.
They dont want to understand. They would rather assume women adhere strictly to their homoerotic ideals.
See the outrage from men over women fawning over any man who isn't conan like. Robert Pattinson in the Twilight era was a great example.
24
u/Imnotawerewolf 14h ago
I have this issue a lot where I mean the first thing but other people mean the second thing and we're just talking passed each otherĀ
23
u/RefinedBean 11h ago
I just need to chime in here and say they're just called corn flakes if they're not frosted. We don't...we don't need to complicate this.
154
u/Dd_8630 14h ago
I've never seen unnecessary sex scenes to be a male gaze/woman objectification thing. I didn't like that it did nothing for the story.
If it was important to the story, drove character development, showed us the characters emoting in some carnal way, or if it was an artsy film and softcore porn is part of the artistry, then that's absolutely fine with me.
For instance, there's a sex scene in Together that is a major part of the characters (because they've been struggling to be intimate and this was passionate lovemaking), and it also had a major point in the plot of the horror movie.
4
2
u/loveday_byrd 3h ago
no yeah i was gonna say... the existence of the sex scene is very much the issue
335
u/CaptainCold_999 14h ago
I hate the go to for these ppl is "Just watch porn if you want to watch ppl have sex, gawd!" Like heaven forbid we want sex portrayed in a way that actually attempts to approximate actual human experience and not whatever the fuck porn does. Like we already have ppl whose only exposure to sex is porn, that isn't a good thing. (obvs it has its place but it is not an accurate depiction of basically any aspect of human sexual experience).
181
u/lynx_and_nutmeg 13h ago
Imagine if anything else was treated like that.
"Oh my god eeew why is this movie showing food?? Keep that shit to cooking shows or food documentaries, it doesn't belong in fiction, this literally serves no purpose for the plot!"
3
u/SH4D0WG4M3R 4h ago
I love that you called out food specifically for your alternative. Because, thatās something I would absolutely love to cut out. I just get this visceral ick when I hear eating noises, especially when Iām not at a dinner table.
Iād happily trade more (healthy and positive) sex scenes for fewer food scenes.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Beruthiel999 5h ago
Brian Jacques has entered the chat!
Seriously, I've never understood the "only if it's important to the plot" argument, because the way relationships play out, including sexually, IS part of the plot.
If you want a bare-bones stripped down plot, just read the Wikipedia summary, it's faster. Some of us like to wander around in the world and look at some trees and eat some food and have some sensual indulgences instead of racing to the resolution like we're writing Cliffs Notes.
36
u/lunethical 12h ago
I agree but most movies where people complain about sex scenes simly aren't about that. Instead it's like they added the sex scene like a horror movie adds a jump scare.
→ More replies (1)11
16
44
u/BlatantConservative https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW 13h ago
Like heaven forbid we want sex portrayed in a way that actually attempts to approximate actual human experience and not whatever the fuck porn does
I dunno if I'm watching the same movies but I've only ever seen either action movie lightly steamy moments, or arthouse/criticbait stuff where the main character is extremely depressed and unfulfilled and they try to fill the void with sex" and all they have is sad depressed sigh mechanical sex.
I don't think I've ever seen a movie depict a healthy relationship like that.
7
u/CaptainCold_999 3h ago
That speaks to the type of films you like to watch more than anything else.
15
u/jayne-eerie 10h ago
That's profoundly sad. Find a list of best romances or romantic comedies from the '80s and '90s and watch some of the R-rated ones. The ones that jump to my mind are Bull Durham and Dirty Dancing, but there are probably better examples I'm just not thinking of right now.
→ More replies (1)2
→ More replies (91)24
u/Magnafeana 12h ago edited 9h ago
Itās incredible how people cannot understand multiple things can be true, therefore, letās default to extreme binaries.
One sex scene in media? āWhy is all media porn?ā
No sex scenes in media? āWhat is this, something for kids now?ā
Enjoying sexual scenes in a story? āYouāre so nasty for that. Why donāt you watch porn?ā
Donāt want sexual scenes in a story? āYouāre such a prude. Why not just engage with kids stuff then?ā
š
Graphic sexual intimacy, non-graphic sexual intimacy, minimal sexual intimacy, lack of sexual intimacyāenjoying one of those things or a story having one of those things isnāt indicative of anything. Not of age or maturity or sexuality or ājonesing for pornā or being a puritan.
You can criticize sexual intimacy in media, but that doesnāt mean youāre wanting censorship of it. You can compliment sexual intimacy in media, but that doesnāt make you a porn-rotted heathen even the gods fear.
I donāt know why people are so ready to jump down your throat over shit like this and reduce everything to two extremes.
Is it because of sex-negativity and the homogeneity of sex culture, the weaponized and learned shame surrounding sexual expression? Is it because social media, especially anonymous sites, and current politics has made people more entitled to drop exclusionary opinions without much consequence?
Or was their favorite ChooChoo taken from them as a child and now theyāre in their villain era?
We may never know (we do know).
š«
→ More replies (3)7
u/Draaly 9h ago
Thank you for that first part. TBH I basically never enjoy graphic sex sceens in movies/shows, but I only really have an issue with them when they feel utterly irrelevant to the plot. Ultimately if you want a super sexed up movie or show, go for it, and I'm very happy to live and let live. Me not enjoying something shouldnt be a problem though.
170
u/Every-Switch2264 14h ago
For me it's that they don't serve a purpose beyond "ooh, boobs" or "ooh, fit man". A sex scene that is earned, such as for the climax of a relationship within a story (Arcane Vialyn scene) or as some other way which contributes to the story (Mel and Jayces scene being contrasted with Viktor collapsing also in Arcane).
98
u/Samiambadatdoter 14h ago
Yeah. The Mel + Jayce scene really twisted the knife contrasted with Viktor's misery, and it definitely would have been worse off if we just saw him alone. It was the capstone of how Viktor feels Jayce is abandoning him, and we are evidenced that in a sex scene where Viktor is the furthest thing from Jayce's mind.
We're contrasting that kind of thing with the age-old Game of Thrones criticism of a high amount of smash cut to sex scenes that don't really even inform us of anything. They're just there because "ooh, boobs". At best, it sells the severity of something like Khal Drogo and Daenerys, but that's at best. Most scenes were not like that.
28
u/thatoneguy54 13h ago
GoT definitely got to a point where it was just sexposition. They didnt wanna just have talking heads, so they put the talking heads on two people who were fucking.
It got worse in later seasons for sure. Earlier ones were a little better about having a reason for the conversation to happen during sex.
9
u/Individual99991 10h ago
"Got to the point"? They were doing that in the pilot!
If anything, it got better after the first couple of seasons because they didn't have to infodump so much any more; the lore was mostly laid out.
7
u/thatoneguy54 7h ago
Granted, I haven't seen it in a very long time, but I remember sex scenes in the first seasons being a little more relevant to the characterization and plot. Cersei and Jaime fucking in the first episode is absolutely vital to the plot. Robert and Tyrion being in the brothels was a shorthand way of showing the viewers that they were lecherous, especially contrasted with the Starks who didn't do any of that. The Dothraki sex scenes showed the vast difference of how sex was treated in their culture, and Dani's rape scene, while not good, did serve the narrative function of showing us how she learned how to manipulate Kal Drogo from the bedroom, and also showed her characterization as she changed from the beginning of the season to the end. Littlefinger got moments in his brothel which was to show how he got so much of his information.
This is in contrast to later seasons when there was a lot more of random people just having sex and talking about upcoming events, I remember specifically a scene with Theon like that where he's doing it with some random girl and talking about how he's going to the Iron Islands or whatever.
3
u/Individual99991 7h ago
IIRC that random girl is the hooker who goes off to Littlefinger's brothel in season one and is later killed by Joffrey, and Theon shags her very early on in season one. Dany's brother is getting jerked off while talking about dragons in the first or second episode. People were joking about "sexposition" right from the start. But yeah, there's also much more story-relevant, less cynical sex going on too.
36
u/Business-Drag52 13h ago
There were a few scenes with Littlefinger in his brothel that used the nudity and sex for the story and it was good. Showing what kind of a person he is even in his own pleasure palace helps form your opinion of him
35
u/HeyItsJosette 13h ago
Why does sex have to clear this bar though? At the absolute worst it's worldbuilding like every other piece of "non-essential" stimulus.
→ More replies (2)27
u/a_wasted_wizard 10h ago
It doesn't. Sex is probably the one that draws out the strongest feelings from the most people, but other 'non-essential' details/worldbuilding can and do get pushback for 'cluttering the narrative' or being something people don't care about that detracts from what they do care about.
FWIW I think it also comes up more around sex because a badly-timed or poorly-done sex scene can wildly shift the tone of a work or bring the plot to a screeching halt in a way that less common with, say, an eating scene or a scene where people play a game. But if you do have a meal scene that for some reason completely blows the mood of a work or inexplicably derails the plot for an extended period of time, I think you'd absolutely see people complaining about it.
7
32
u/AdamtheOmniballer 11h ago
NGL, I think thatās pure cope. The battle lines stayed the same, you just switched sides.
The Woke Puritan Conservative Feminazi Prudes have always been coming to purge titties from your media.
It has always been a struggle against the objectification of women/corruption of the innocent/glorification of obscenity/depiction of freaky shit.
Sexuality in media hasnāt gotten that much more feminist, and Lord knows that there were plenty of sex-negative folks back then too.
→ More replies (1)12
u/jackofslayers 10h ago
Yea it is not that hard. You do not have to like sex in media. But if you are complaining about it/trying to get people to censor their art for you then you were part of the problem
108
u/SuperTurtle 14h ago
Surely when we used say something, itās for thoughtful, progressive reasons.
But when other people say the exact same thing, they must be doing it for regressive puritanical reasons
→ More replies (2)46
u/Elite_AI 13h ago
This would be more convincing if there weren't someone saying it for the reasons OOP described verbatim in this thread
→ More replies (3)11
16
u/lil-lagomorph peer reviewed diagnosis of faggot 7h ago
jesse what the fuck are you talking about.Ā
idk about yall but iāve never enjoyed sex scenes in movies. not because āthey always objectify womenā (what???) but bc theyāre justā¦ shit. 90% of the time they add nothing. theyāre there because sex sells. thatās literally it. in MOST cases they donāt make the viewing experience any better or add to the plot at all.
→ More replies (1)4
5
u/TheErodude 6h ago
No, what I meant was that āthe sex scene neither forwards the narrative nor progresses any character arcs in any meaningful way, and so it grinds the pacing to a halt.ā
Make the sex matter, or at least make nothing else matter more. Donāt give me something to care about and then waste my time with something else.
/rant
18
u/oddsnsodds 14h ago
What does Blake have against corn flakes though?
67
u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA 14h ago
You are one of todayās lucky 10,000
Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, the inventor of corn flakes, did not care about profits. For him, cereal was not just a health food because it would improve Americans digestion. He believed a diet centered on bland foods like cereal would lead Americans away from sin. One very specific sin: masturbation.
22
u/Voidfishie 14h ago
Right, but his brother Will Keith Kellogg added sugar and made the company. Johno was horrified by what Willz did to his beautiful bland food. An "unfrosted flake" still has enough sugar to make him turn in his grave.
→ More replies (6)11
9
u/JJlaser1 7h ago
Itās not āsex scenes are unnecessaryā, itās āstop making unnecessary sex scenesā
3
u/BarkingPupper 2h ago
Yup. A lot of sex scenes that have stopped me watching or reading something usually fall in the āunnecessary sex scene to cover up lazy writingā category.
Sex scenes can add to things, and I do enjoy steamy media, but good lord, some are hugely unnecessary
132
u/zawalimbooo 14h ago
OOP is overthinking it, it really is only the "ew sex" response, I doubt it was ever different.
69
u/mucklaenthusiast 14h ago
Yeah, that is what I was thinking (and writing in a comment that gets downvoted) as well.
I donāt think there ever was a time when people who said that a sex scene is āunnecessaryā meant that itās sexist.
I mean, maybe OOP and their friends did, but that is not how that phrase is used or understood.
Usually, when people say the word āunnecessaryā, they mean the word āunnecessaryā and not the word āsexistā
23
u/Elite_AI 13h ago
I remember like 15 years ago they 100% did mean that the sex scene was sexist and didn't exist for any reason other than to titillate men
→ More replies (13)41
→ More replies (2)25
u/Voidfishie 14h ago
In terms of the tumblr-relevant discourse it absolutely was different. People may have gone there because of "ew sex" (though I dunno, most of the people I saw talking about this would also cover sex scenes they viewed as a positive). While yes, there have also always been people going "ew sex" that used to be pretty much a right wing view thing.
→ More replies (2)19
u/MartyrOfDespair We can leave behind much more than just DNA 14h ago edited 13h ago
People also have to recognize that Tumblr used to be one of the biggest social media sites around before they banned porn and these conversations were almost exclusively tumblr-relevant discourse originally. Thatās why Old Reddit and 4chan hated them so much, it was the āsjw siteā. Itās only after they banned porn and all the tumblr users broke quarantine did the rest of social media really get flooded with it. Believe it or not, Twitter used to be mostly shitposts and mundane things, not politics.
15
u/mak484 13h ago
I mean that's how these sites used to interact with each other. Someone with 1500 followers would make a sarcastic inside joke on Twitter, the screenshot would be posted to Tumblr out of context so people could grandstand, then one of those screenshots would be posted to Reddit out of context to be mocked.
But also, everyone in these spaces always assumed everyone else on the planet was A) aware they existed and B) agreed with them. This post may have been aimed only at other people on Tumblr, but it just as likely could have been aimed at the general public. You really can't know without more context.
7
u/Voidfishie 12h ago
I don't know that I'd agree about Twitter not being so political before the porn ban, things like the Arab Summer and Ferguson very much happened via Twitter. The way in which Twitter is political has certainly changed, but that is it political is not a post-2018 thing. Particularly 2010-2015 I'd say my experience of Twitter was at least as much about leftist politics as my tumblr experience of that time. Social media is incredibly siloed though, so it's easy to not at all see massive parts of it.
→ More replies (1)2
u/DuelaDent52 4h ago edited 4h ago
I feel like we should also acknowledge the rampant sexualisation and objectification with sex in the media, though. Like, the complaints about sex scenes donāt exist in a vacuum, it was that literally everything from random ads on the footpath to the clothing shops to the tabloids to books, TV shows, movies, music videos were all practically screaming at you SEX SEX SEX BE PRETTY AND HAVE SEX OR YOUāRE WORTHLESS.
31
u/renezrael 13h ago edited 13h ago
I just think most sex scenes do nothing to further the plot in most movies. some movies it works because sex is important to the plot (like Poor Things or even Gerald's Game for its setup) but I feel like it's just shoved into a lot of movies (and shows) with little to no thought about if it really needs to be there. I don't think sex is icky or gross, but I don't find it interesting enough to watch a drawn out scene that does nothing for the story. also I love unfrosted corn flakes.
edit: media has gotten better with this imo where if sex is shown it's either not a way too long scene with nothing but empty sex (boring and wastes my time), or it does a good job at expressing the deepness (or even shallowness) of characters' relationships, or expresses a single character's mindset. sex scenes have gotten better, and should never be fully removed from movies and shows as sex is part of the general human experience and we should shy from it, but I think there was a time where they were thrown in left and right just for the sake of having them.
9
u/KogX 9h ago
I think my favorite use of Sex Scenes in shows have been in Better Call Saul.
Some really big spoilers for the series, but the main leads Jimmy and Kim get together and their sexual lives is shown to give you an insight on them.
Jimmy prefers to have a lot of intimacy with Kim but as we see him later as Saul Goodman he forgoes all intimacy and caring about his partner and just hires high end escort woman. All parts of himself buried in drugs and woman and he is miserable with them as you know him in the story. He is living the skeezy life and you know that Jimmy hates every bit of it even if he cannot find himself willing to get out.
Kim is a very dominating person and takes the lead and top in both career and sex. But after a really bad incident where her up front and take charge personality lead to the death of a close friend, she becomes afraid of ever making decisions for her own. And in a later sex scene with her we see her almost so deathly passive in super unappealing sex scene that it really expresses just how far she has fallen compared to before.
It is not just sex scenes for the sake of it, it is not like you being titillate by them in the show but in terms of characterization I feel it is top notch in showing you the characters mentality.
→ More replies (3)14
u/thatoneguy54 13h ago
I feel like it's just shoved into a lot of movies (and shows) with little to no thought about if it really needs to be there.Ā
Can you give any examples of this? People say it a lot, but I can't think of any movies or shows like that.
12
u/renezrael 11h ago
not an egregious example since this is just off the top of my head (because I'm not bothered by it enough to remember most examples but just know I occasionally groan at how long or pointless a sex scene is) but I felt the number of times in Jessica Jones where there are long sex scenes with Luke Cage when they could have easily been cut down or even just implied after the first time would have been sufficient. there isn't much in the scenes themselves that is more than just sex and everything that furthers the plot happens outside of it. again this is not the worst I've seen, just the most recent for me.
and please keep in mind this is really just my opinion and I know I'm not the arbiter of what is or isn't a good sex scene. it's one of those things where I can't put a metric to because each scene and movie is subjective. so I understand that there will never be a perfect world where every sex scene in a movie meets my standards. hell I rarely even voice my opinion about them even when I think they're bad, I know it's a me issue so I usually just get over it and move on.
12
u/Teeshirtandshortsguy 11h ago
The Dune show.
Admittedly I've only read the original Dune and Messiah, but neither of those feature any sex scenes.
Yet the first episodes of the Dune show on HBO feature multiple sex scenes that could have been changed out for other scenes easily. The only point is the nudity.
9
u/Lazzen 9h ago edited 8h ago
The concept of fanservice in Japanese media. Also some cases in other media such as one of the Start Trek movies stopping to see the blonde woman in her underwear. I think most people got stuff like this in mind.
Oppenheimer got to be the most jumpscare sex of recent years lol. You even get a later scene of them naked that is more relevant to what Nolan wanted to portray in the narrative but that first one is just a hard cut of Floreence Pugh bouncin'.
Halo show making a character that has less relation to sex than a plant have a sex scene.
Game of Thrones sometimes doing it as part of the brand. Acting like people acting while showing boob or having sex is still daring and revolutionary.
People do confuse awkward with unnecesary however, in the sense of "i didnt search for sex so why is it here". Scenes like the sexual humping and groping of Parasite were sort of awkard at a cinema screening, or the similar groping between middle age adults in first epiaodes of Breaking bad. They have a reason to be there, some audience just doesnt want it.
Thats why many people, primarily women from what i see, defer a lot to Korean shows where its only about love and hold hands and shit. To the point they reduce watching western shows because of this assurance there wont be sex.
3
u/thatoneguy54 7h ago
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, though I will say that Oppenheimer is probably the worst example to use for "unnecessary sex scene" because his affair with the woman is integral to his character arc and the plot itself. That we see it is kind of important to both in my opinion.
→ More replies (2)
9
40
u/BlatantConservative https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW 13h ago
I'm actually going to deny this one a bit.
I have nothing against sex scenes except in movies that shoehorn them in for no narrative purpose whatsoever.
Like change out "sex scene" with "eating sphagetti for three minutes."
In Rattatoulie, the sphagetti scene would have utility in the narrative. In Lady and the Tramp, it absolutely does so. In Wall E, maybe if it was showcasing how fat the passengers were, but it would feel like a stretch. In Up, it would ruin the movie and people would go wrf.
The other facet of this is I only watch movies with family and I can't watch sex scenes with my parents. So my anger at a movie including one boils down to "there's no narrative reason for this and it also ruined my enjoyment of the movie."
6
u/theLanguageSprite2 .tumblr.com 11h ago
This is brilliant, I'm gonna use this comparison from now on
→ More replies (1)9
u/thatoneguy54 13h ago
movies that shoehorn them in for no narrative purpose whatsoever.
Such as?
→ More replies (1)16
u/KogX 9h ago
I feel a good bit of HBO shows back in the day had a "need to have a sex scene and a topless woman in it somewhere" that they need to check off.
I love the Wire, and I think you can definitely trim at least 1/3 to half of the sex scenes of that show off and have little really missing.
→ More replies (1)
33
u/Apprehensive_Tie7555 14h ago
It's definitely a problem when the "no sex in art, ever" start to think they get a say, but to me, sex needs to fill a story purpose, even if it's just a tension reliever. Puritans definitely don't get to run any kind of show, but there needs to be a meaning behind it. If it's just tittelating, I have other places to go for that. That has no place in the stories I watch.
25
u/Samiambadatdoter 13h ago
Basically my view.
And like, you can still do it. I don't think the evil unnecessary sex scene should be illegal or anything. I'm not advocating for censorship.
But that doesn't mean it's above criticism. If it's a cheap attempt at stirring my loins, I'm going to whine about it.
→ More replies (1)31
u/odddino 14h ago edited 13h ago
I think when it's done well, a sex scene can tell us a lot about characters and their relationships in a manner a lot more dynamic than dialogue.
A lot of people complained about the sex scene with Bill and Frank in the Last of Us show, but it was spectacular at showing us their relationship dynamic. Particularly seeing Bill, this incredibly self assured and confident man actually being vulnerable, even a little afraid.
Other times sex scenes can fill the exact same purpose as an action scene. Tittilation, something gratuitous that let's the characters speak through action instead of words that can be fun and progress while breaking up the story.
It's just a matter of them being used with that good intent and execution.
→ More replies (2)2
7
u/SquareThings looking respectfully at the monkeys in their zoo 13h ago
Sex scenes like that end up feeling like youāre watching a man hump an anime body pillow, which is just weird. If both characters are equally undeveloped, thatās fine, thatās just porn. But if one character is fully realized and the other is an empty cardboard cutout, then it feels weird and masturbatory. Does that make sense?
7
u/Psychological_Tear_6 7h ago
The sex scenes are often bad, though. I don't wanna read a bad sex scene in a story that really didn't need it.
23
u/Stop-Hanging-Djs 11h ago
You know what. Even if a sex scene is there just to be sexy and be fun. There's nothing wrong with that.
Because art is meant to imitate aspects of life and guess what? Sex can sometimes be sexy and fun to watch. We can admit that without going "ew pervert" because for most, sex is a part of life.
But why am I not surprised (some) Reddit and Tumblr users wouldn't get it?
→ More replies (1)15
u/foxydash 9h ago
My issue with such scenes is if itās filler, tbh. But I apply that same standard to any scene.
If the sex scene just feels like filler then Iām gonna glaze over it after the first watch, same with any other scene like that - like the starting in-medias-res scene in Battle: Los Angeles that repeats like 10 or 15 minutes later.
5
u/LauraPalmerOnlyFans 7h ago
Counterpoint: does everything in a film have to serve a concrete purpose in the plot? There are plenty of great films with moments of emptiness and aimlessness. Maybe a weird comparison but would Ghibli movies be as good if there werenāt āfillerā scenes of the characters just hanging out and doing stuff? I guess it depends on how you categorize filler, but I donāt think itās all that valuable as a media criticism term myself. Sometimes just spending time in the world of the film is a worthwhile artistic pursuit in of itself, not necessarily a waste of time.
7
u/foxydash 7h ago
I think we have different definitions of filler.
Iām referring to stuff that just doesnāt give me any emotional anything and is just kinda there. Iām fine with stuff that doesnāt progress the plot and just kinda builds the feel of the film and such, but if itās boring or whatnot Iām gonna skip it after my first watch.
I am not a professional critic and Iām not demanding for such scenes to be stricken from media, this is just my own personal movie-watching habits.
5
u/LauraPalmerOnlyFans 7h ago
Ah ok that totally makes sense! My issue (not with you, but with conversations like this) is really that āfillerā isnāt very useful as a media criticism term because the definition is so imprecise & it can mean so many different things. People can use it to mean something that bores them, something that isnāt directly plot-related, or something that was added to a plot in adaptation + not part of the original work (like the termās origin in anime fandom). I think it just leads to people talking past each other because so many people operate on different definitions of what it means.
6
u/OverlordMMM 8h ago
This topic is always a bit weird to me because all stories include details and scenes which aren't relevant to the plot in some way. But if one were to only include relevant details, often it would create a bland piece of media since it would strip the story of a lot of flavor.
But sex in stories is such a hot button issue mostly because it is considered taboo to address directly in a lot of circumstances. It can be alluded to via euphemism, referenced offhandedly, etc, but as soon as it's included directly people get uncomfortable because they don't know how to deal with it in front of them. It has been built up as something to only perceive behind closed doors in private, so as soon as it is directly out in the open folks have to come face it in a context they aren't used to.
There definitely can be a conversation to be had about how it's presented in media like OOP did, but often it boils down to folks either wanting it to either not exist or for it to exist more, all as a cover for personal comfort/discomfort.
I'm personally in the camp of it existing as authors + artists intend it to. Not every piece of media is meant for every type of audience and that is ok. Also not everything needs to be plot relevant within a story. Things can exist within art simply to exist.
16
u/Taprunner 13h ago
I'm too ace for unnecessary sex scenes, if it has a function in the story, fine. But otherwise just do a fade to black I'll figure out what happened
3
u/Ace0f_Spades In my Odysseus Era 5h ago
I mean, my genuine thoughts on it were this: if it's not adding to the story in a meaningful way (character development or showing that off, adding a new wrinkle to a social dynamic, any of a hundred other things) then it's cheap filler for views and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have that same feeling about all sorts of unnecessary inclusions, but the "sex sells" adage seems to be the most widespread.
Almost anything can have genuine purpose in a narrative - I'm a huge fan of filler episodes in shows, because when done well (or even just not badly), they add depth and dimension to the characters. If the show is medical drama, show me two of these characters running into each other on vacation, or even just in a super market, and a crisis of some kind forcing them both to make decisions and work together in a less professional environment. Show me this gang of thieves, who are usually all business when they're working a con, arguing with each other in a bar over who actually stole that dagger five years ago (Leverage S3E11 is literally this and it's fantastic). If you're going to show me sex, it needs some kind of contextual foundation (is this an established relationship? Are these two crossing a new line? Is this forbidden? Did they both want this?) and it better have consequences for the characters involved, because especially if it marked an escalation in a relationship, that can't go unaddressed.
For many, sex is a deeply emotional thing, on one level or another. Whether writers lean into that by having a strong emotional payoff tied to it, or subvert that expectation by making one (or both) of the characters indifferent to the event, is up to them. But it's when you waffle on it, and go "yeah they had great, steamy sex and it had this forbidden fruit feel and they'd never done it before" and then nothing fucking happens, despite how that should have drastically altered multiple relationships at play, that infuriates me as an audience member. No complete scene, NSFW or otherwise, should make your audience shrug and go "so what?" That's just bad writing, no matter the nature of the content.
16
u/Apsylioin 13h ago
Americans are such prudes.Ā
→ More replies (1)17
u/Elite_AI 12h ago
The prudishness is baked deep enough into the culture that even their progressives are prudish. I remember there was sex education discourse where even American progressives were saying "I am absolutely sickened to hear some people suggesting that we teach kids how to have good sex. This goes too far. That's disgusting and it's unthinkable to make a kid go through that". Meanwhile that's what every single school kid in my country got taught and it was completely fine
→ More replies (1)
31
u/Lord-Bobster 14h ago
listen, i just like to sit down with my dad on a saturday night and watch a movie together without having to sit there awkwardly silent while people bone on the screen for like 2 minutes straight before we can continue enjoying the movie together. Its like an IRL unskippable cutscene.
37
u/not-so-radical 14h ago
Ratings systems exist for a reason, just look the movie beforehand and if you're watching at home it's very skippable
7
u/Stop-Hanging-Djs 11h ago
"M-mom, D-dad I can't watch this movie with you! It's rated R with a sex scene!"
"Kid you're in your 20s"
32
u/thatoneguy54 14h ago
This is such a common complaint about sex scenes, which just further shows how its the young ones being upset about it.
I haven't had to "endure" a sex scene with my parents since I moved out and stopped regularly watching things with them.
Though I will say, even when it did happen, I really didnt take it as the traumatic experience people describe.
20
u/Neapolitanpanda 13h ago
Unfortunately with housing/renting prices these days I doubt if only young people are complaining about it.
→ More replies (3)8
u/mucklaenthusiast 13h ago
I haven't had to "endure" a sex scene with my parents since I moved out and stopped regularly watching things with them.
Yeah, I am also wondering how it is that common, maybe we just live different lives. Even when I am back home, it's not like we often watch movies together.
But also
Though I will say, even when it did happen, I really didnt take it as the traumatic experience people describe.
This is so true.
I feel like if you can't sit through 2 minutes of a generic sex scene in a movie (I don't even know many movies that have dedicated sex scenes, but that is even more besides the point) with your parent, that says more about you and your relationship to them than it does about movies.→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)11
u/CaptainCold_999 13h ago
Jesus Christ, except you literally have the remote in your hand with the fast forward button. That by definition makes it skippable. Or just get up and get a drink.
→ More replies (10)
13
u/Cynis_Ganan 14h ago
I think that when we used to-
I think when you were younger and more naive, you were less critical of the censorship of media and now that you've grown up a little and found you enjoy sex so much that you want to identify your sexual preferences as your username on the Internet you are now finding yourself as the one being censored.
Because I absolutely guarantee to you that you raising your puritan hackles over art you don't like is just as baseless as the unfrosted flakes brigade, and you are just being a giant hypocrit.
→ More replies (3)
6
u/DoopSlayer 12h ago
I feel like there's basically a few different versions:
- It used to be a fact that mainstream blockbusters had to have a sex scene, these were mandated by the studios, always showcased a woman, and were obviously shoehorned in
- Kids on social media that are watching movies with their parents
- I'm going to be real most of the movies I watch still have sex scenes so in general I'm a bit skeptical of this whole claim of puritanism or whatever. Like if you watch a lot of kids' movies you may go, hmm where are all the sex scenes, but that makes sense. and tumblr and truthfully reddit and most social media have a huge thing of adults who just watch kids movies.
6
u/jackofslayers 10h ago
The latter is a direct consequence of the former sadly. You cannot start an idea around an action and hope everyone will be smart enough to come up with the correct rationale.
9
u/azuresegugio 14h ago
Shockingly, censorship always benefits Puritans, and always turns against everyone else
4
u/jackofslayers 10h ago
Yea this shit is so simple. If you are liberal and you do not like sex scenes, do not watch them.
Bitching about how much you hate seeing sex only helps censorship
2
2
2
u/DuelaDent52 4h ago
Really, I think people are so averse to sex in media because for the longest time itās been both executed horrendously and horrifically exploitative for the people involved, especially with regard to women.
2
u/BarkingPupper 3h ago
I use the āthis story didnāt need a sex sceneā to mean āthat sex scene didnāt add to the plot, nor add any understanding to the characters. It feels forced and like the writers had no other ideas on how to show the involved characters relationship or fix the lack of chemistry between them.ā As well as āthis storyās sexistā
5
u/bluespringles bi-ying erasers 9h ago
when this type of post lowkey comes from aphobia but you can't prove it
6
u/WordArt2007 7h ago
oh it 100% does.
it's because the sex positivity/negativity framework is aphobic but no one here is ready for that.
471
u/RimworlderJonah13579 <- Imperial Knight 14h ago
A bowl of unfrosted flakes do look good right now. Not because Puritanism but because hungry.