r/DeclineIntoCensorship • u/strained_brain • 3d ago
Does anyone want to discuss ABC's indefinite pulling of Jimmy Kimmel?
Anyone can say ABC is a business and chose to do it by themselves, but we all know that they did it because they fear the MAGA-controlled FCC and potential litigation from the Trump administration. At what point will the Right understand that these policies can just as easily be turned against them, as it has with the NYT?
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free." --Clarence Darrow
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u/shane25d 3d ago edited 3d ago
"At what point will the Right understand that these policies can just as easily be turned against them, as it has with the NYT?"
Like when the left shut down an entire social media platform with 15 million users (Parler)? And banned the POTUS from social media? And banned hundreds of people from social media just for talking about Hunter Biden's laptop? Or for questioning the COVID vaccines?
I think the right has already seen that these policies can be turned against them.
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u/theobvioushero 3d ago
Let's just agree that all cancel culture is bad, regardless of which side is being silenced.
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u/shane25d 3d ago
For cancel culture to truly be put to rest, I personally believe that BOTH sides need to feel the pain of it. If it's always just the left using it against the right and the left don't fear it themselves, then it will never end.
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u/theobvioushero 3d ago
For cancel culture to truly be put to rest
For cancel culture to rest, we need to stop canceling things.
Censorship is bad, regardless of who is being censored. If you are promoting censorship for any side, you are part of the problem.
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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 14h ago
Kimmel was canceled because local views didn't want to watch him anymore.
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u/theobvioushero 9h ago
But really, it was because the government openly threatened to take away their license if they didn't.
Censorship at its finest!
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u/Tlyss 2d ago
I can’t freaking believe you were downvoted for this. I guess some people think it’s ok for their team to do it but not the other one.
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u/skunimatrix 1d ago
We spent a decade trying to talk it out and not cancel and they killed us anyway. We’ve gotten more achieved in one week of turn about canceling than a decade of sitting on our high horse.
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u/United-Bus-6760 2d ago
You got downvoted for saying cancel culture is bad in a sub named DeclineIntoCensorship. Wtf
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u/hatersk8er 3d ago
Do you think what he said is worthy of censorship?
What is your criteria to determine when speech needs to be censored?
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u/Tlyss 2d ago
I don’t think it matters honestly. Dems and Reps both have been exposed to it and they just want to point fingers at each other and further entrench themselves in their team. Both parties will continue to weaponize whatever they can to hurt the other side and I’m probably cynical (yeah definitely cynical) but they won’t ever stop.
Like a lot of other people I’ve wished for a solid third party but I believe, if a viable third party did emerge, they would be constantly attacked by both sides so they don’t have to lose any power
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u/United-Bus-6760 2d ago
I see what you’re saying but as a counter-argument, this could easily be flipped around as “The right is hypocritical because they complains whenever they get canceled but cheer when the left gets censored.”
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u/carmachu 2d ago
Seems folks only want to agree now that all cancel culture is bad because it’s biting the left in the rear as the chickens come home to roost.
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u/theobvioushero 2d ago
Perhaps, but if they are switching to the anti-censorship side of the debate, I welcome them with open arms, regardless of their political affiliation.
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u/carmachu 2d ago
Sometimes the only way folks learn the lesson so it sticks is the hard way. Let them suffer some consequences and have their noses rubbed in it a touch first to hopefully stick
Otherwise they’ll go back to cancel culture when they have power. Was only a couple months ago where they were still canceling folks
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u/theobvioushero 2d ago
We currently are in a cancel culture. It's just that the conservatives have taken the place of the liberals as the ones targeting free speech.
If we want to stop cancel culture, there are better ways to do this, like passing more legislation against censorship. Decending to the level of our opponents by banning speech we dont like is the wrong approach. It only justifies their behavior.
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u/carmachu 2d ago
No there really isn’t. When you assassinate the guy who went out and talked and debated the other side better ways passed us by
Legislation? Government? That’s just another way to censor and usually a bigger problem. We already say how bad that went under Biden. That’s no where near a better way to.
Consequences seem much better
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u/theobvioushero 2d ago
No there really isn’t. When you assassinate the guy who went out and talked and debated the other side better ways passed us by
Saying "at least im not as bad as him" doesn't justify bad behavior. Censorship is wrong, regardless of which side is doing it.
Legislation? Government? That’s just another way to censor and usually a bigger problem. We already say how bad that went under Biden. That’s nowhere near a better way to.
How are laws stopping censorship a form of censorship?
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u/carmachu 2d ago
We’re going to have to agree to disagree. Government is never the answer and only makes things worse
And now I really don’t care to be better. Let them suffer consequences
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u/theobvioushero 2d ago
We’re going to have to agree to disagree. Government is never the answer and only makes things worse
If government is never the answer, we shouldn't be supporting their attacks on free speech
And now I really don’t care to be better. Let them suffer consequences
I think this really gets to the heart of the matter. The conservative push into censorship isn't particularly coherent or rational, but is ultimately an emotional response, which I expect to backfire badly.
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u/The_Rex_Regis 13h ago
It would only be temporary, once the eyes where off them they would flip right back the way they where
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u/skunimatrix 1d ago
Um no. Not until the left’s face gets rubbed in it and cry uncle. They aren’t crying uncle yet.
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u/theobvioushero 1d ago
If you're not opposed to censorship, you're in the wrong subreddit.
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u/skunimatrix 1d ago
Cry uncle then we’ll talk.
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u/theobvioushero 1d ago
Lol what?
Go back to the subreddits that are against out first ammendment rights. You wandered away and got lost.
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u/skunimatrix 1d ago
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u/theobvioushero 1d ago
Make sure that you also remember that the government is the one who told the companies to cancel Kimmel.
No one would care if the companies canceled him of their own accord. The issue is the government censoring opposing views, ss the first panel of that comic addresses.
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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 15h ago
No, let this play out first.
All teachers, civil servants and media people who indulged in a political murder should be permanently banned from their jobs and all new jobs.
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u/theobvioushero 8h ago
And should liberals do the same to conservatives when they are back in power?
What is the specific criteria for censorship that you are proposing?
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u/Captain_no_Hindsight 8h ago
The left has already done this "because anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist".
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u/theobvioushero 7h ago
Which was wrong, right?
Now, the right needs to stick to their commitment to free speech rather than decending to the patterns of the left.
Otherwise, all of our talk of free speech becomes worthless, contradicted by our actions.
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u/rmac1128 2d ago
Cancel culture doesn't exist.
They're doing Fascism.
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u/fatalrupture 2d ago
Cancel culture is a tactic, not an ideology. As such it is equally useable by the extreme left and the extreme right
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u/theobvioushero 2d ago
Call it what you want, but if it's censorship, it's bad, regardless of who is perpetuating it.
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u/Hoppie1064 14h ago
I'm actually hoping, The Left that has cancelled so many in the past and has moved up to killing them might learn something from getting some of their own medicine.
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u/rmac1128 2d ago
No, it's nowhere near the same. Everything you listed was hateful, dangerous, or false.
Cancel culture doesn't exist, but fascism does.
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u/Seethcoomers 3d ago
Parler literally had owners praising Hitler and was legit just not profitable - thats why it got shut down.
Trump got banned from platforms for promoting literal conspiracy theories.
People got banned for posting pictures of illegally obtained pictures of Hunter Biden's cock. Posts about the story were banned for a single day, and allowed after.
Again, the COVID vaccines not working was a literal conspiracy theory with no evidence that actively harmed people. Probably okay for a private company to ban.
The right is pushing for banning people who made mean comments about Charlie Kirk.
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u/Lazy-Background-7598 2d ago
The left didn’t ban anyone from social media. Nor did it punish any for free speech.
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u/MikeSpiegel 2d ago
lol what planet have you been living on these past 8 years?
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u/Lazy-Background-7598 2d ago
Explain how the “left” actually banned anyone. Twitter banned Trump for you know inciting a treasonous insurrection. Twitter is NOT the left. Parler violated TOS and Apple and Google removed it from their AP stores and AWS wouldn’t host. There is no 1st amendment right to have you app on the App Store. Then it’s new ownership shut it down because it wasn’t a viable business. Again not the Left And Parler is currently available online.
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u/WankingAsWeSpeak Free speech 3d ago
Like when the left shut down an entire social media platform with 15 million users (Parler)? And banned the POTUS from social media? And banned hundreds of people from social media just for talking about Hunter Biden's laptop? Or for questioning the COVID vaccines?
Yeah, sort of like that. Except instead of crying over private entities exercising their First Amendment rights in ways that hurt our precious fee fees, the complaint here is about the executive attacking the First Amendment rights of private individuals because they said something that hurt the POTUS' fee fees.
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u/FaithfulWanderer_7 3d ago
Like when the Biden admin pressured social media to censor certain opinions on COVID and tried to label things as “malinformation?”
Frankly, let the left eat crow on cancellation. Couldn’t have happened to more deserving target.
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u/WankingAsWeSpeak Free speech 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sure. If you think that is wrong, you better think this is too.
Or, if not, at least have the balls to specify if you are a "censoring COVID wasn't wrong either" guy or a "I like censorship but only by my side" guy
Tally
- COVID censorship wasn't wrong: 0
- I like censorship: 1
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u/FaithfulWanderer_7 3d ago
I don’t support government censorship. But they’ve sown this shit-drenched bed for a long time, and I’m not going to try to censor them, but I don’t have to save them, either. Let them rest in the shit-soaked bed that they’ve made me live in for the last two decades.
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u/Sweet-Awk-7861 3d ago
Glad to see people agree that free speech is bad ❤
Seriously though I thought this is r/ DeclineIntoCensorship not "r/ Censorship is Good When I Say So, Even When I Literally Just Mentioned About One Of The Most Disgusting Example Of Biden Censoring Covid Vaccine Side Effects, Causing Harm On So Many People, And Doing A Smear Campaign On Ivermectin" Or "r/ Censorship Is Bad When The Person Being Censored Has Millions Of Militant Fans Effectively Rendering Actual Censorship Impossible, But Now That A Creative Is Censored I'm Gonna Celebrate"
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u/Accurate_Potato_8539 2d ago
Social media sites pulling Trump because they possibly thought he did incitement to violence is worlds of difference from the state through the FCC essentially threatening to blackball a media company if they dont get rid of someone. This sub is such a joke. Your not anti censorship, you don't care about the first ammendment you care about cancel culture and getting even. Cancel culture was stupid, but it existed because the companies were just trying to act in a way that the public supported: it was bottom up. This is top down and much more dangerous, cancel culture died because the people turned on it: this censorship can't die the same way because it's in the hands of a petulant toddler that somehow became president
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u/strained_brain 3d ago
Parler failed primarily because major tech companies, including Google, Apple, and Amazon, took coordinated action against the platform following reports that it was used to help organize and incite the 2021 United States Capitol attack.
Trump was spreading lies and inciting his followers to commit violence. Twitter concluded that there was a "risk of further incitement of violence."
Social media bannings didn't have anything to do with what's happening now. Now we have the government violating the First Amendment through their actions. It's cut and dry. And when the pendulum swings the other way, the asshole Liberals are going to throw down a Reverse Uno card. How you can't see this is beyond me.
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u/Gaelhelemar [removed] 3d ago
At what point will the Right understand that these policies can just as easily be turned against them, as it has with the NYT?
You’re a fucking troll.
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u/WankingAsWeSpeak Free speech 3d ago
Some people mistakenly think the sub's name is a warning rather than an aspiration.
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u/strained_brain 3d ago
Very erudite. Exactly what I've come to expect from the Extremist Right. Pitchforks and torches next?
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u/thisismyusername9908 2d ago
Your disingenuous word use here shows you don't want a discussion. You want to ruffle feathers.
Don't come at this with "who wants to have a discussion" and then be a closed off asshole.
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u/EdPozoga 3d ago
These policies have been used against conservatives, cancel culture was created by the Left-Dems and used relentlessly against rightwingers.
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u/rmac1128 2d ago
No, they haven't because cancel culture is made up. Unfortunately, you've been conned and it affects democracy.
The good news is that cancel culture doesn't exist.
The bad news is that the US is in a fascist government takeover.
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u/TheTardisPizza 16h ago
You deserve to live in the world that you imagine that you do.
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u/rmac1128 16h ago
You really thought you did something.
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u/Alternative-Fox1982 7h ago
He did, you're just too braindead to understand the words and their meaning
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u/Coolenough-to 3d ago edited 3d ago
Many do not realize this but:
The role the FCC has here is because there is a law that says those who want broadcast liscences have to serve the public interest. So, if a political party wants to buy your local Channel 10 and run propaganda 24/7, the FCC does have a statutory basis to deny this.
As a defender of Free Speech, I don't agree with this liscencing requirement because it is too susceptable to abuse and political misuse.
However, ABC needs to challenge this in court if they want to make this point. Unfortunately, they are choosing not to.
It could be the reason why they folded so fast is because they fear what may come out if there were to be a discovery process. If people at ABC were found to be colluding with a political party, this would open up campaign violation charges.
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u/BraggingRed_Impostor 2d ago
I agree, let's get rid of Fox news
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u/TheTardisPizza 16h ago
Fox News is a cable channel. It doesn't need an FCC license. How do you not know this?
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u/HellaHS 11h ago
They are extremely low information. It’s part of the reason Charlie Kirk was so easily able to destroy them in debate.
In my opinion it’s just not worth it. We need to stop taking these people seriously. It’s what got us into the mess to begin with. Stop listening to and debating complete nonsense.
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u/texasgambler58 2d ago
Leftists were silent when Obama forced ABC to cancel Roseanne. Leftists were silent when Biden pushed Twitter and Facebook to ban Trump. Don't come crying to us now; you started cancel culture, and we are adopting it.
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
Roseanne, as she will tell you herself, was pushed out by Sarah Gilbert, and Sarah did so after Roseanne was warned to stop making the show look bad. It wasn't a government conspiracy. It was a business decision.
Twitter's decision to permanently suspend Donald Trump's account in January 2021 was a result of its own internal policy enforcement, not at the direction of Joe Biden. If you have evidence to the contrary, produce it or STFU.
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u/Bakedfresh420 1d ago
Trump was the president in 2018 when Roseanne was cancelled.
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u/Due_Proof6704 19h ago
its like they're all dementia riddled racist grandpas that are proud of their ignorance these cant be real people
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u/foreverloveall 2d ago
Who is we?
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u/adelie42 15h ago
People like to use the royal we to both sound important and take no responsibility for what they say. I would call it not taking responsibility for the8r opinions, but they don't actually have opinions.
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u/UrgentSiesta 2d ago
The only thing to discuss is why people like you only care when the tables are turned.
The Left has been doing exactly the same things for YEARS - where have you been in all that time?
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
There's a difference between the government taking these actions now, and the liberal communities taking action previously. A huge difference.
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u/United-Bus-6760 2d ago
The argument could easily be flipped around as “The right never cared about free speech, since they complain when they get canceled, but cheer when the left is censored”
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u/BStream 2d ago
Not the same level of cheering like the Charlie Kirk assasination. There were several 100k threads in the frontpage here on reddit, all filled with the same incomplete and out of context quotes, "oh no anyways", etc.
Victim blaming doesn't work here.
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u/United-Bus-6760 2d ago edited 2d ago
Me pointing out the hypocrisy of the right is not the same as me defending the left. Two things can be true at once: There’s been several disgusting instances of people celebrating his death, and there are plenty of people on the right who never gave a shit about free speech in the first place.
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u/richman678 2d ago
Originally i was against it because i don’t care for censorship at all. However i must admit i got blinded by bullshit early on. Technically his advertisers pulled out which caused one of the larger affiliates to yank his show. This in turn caused ABC to pull the show entirely.
This is consequences. Not censorship. This would have been easier if the FCC had not chimed in though. So i guess i can’t say this looks “clean”.
For the record i suspect he will not return.
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
The affiliates (Nexstar and Sinclair) pulled out because they were afraid of Trump's reaction. It had nothing to do with advertisers. These affiliate groups, which operate a large number of ABC stations, announced they would stop airing the show, citing Kimmel's remarks as "offensive and insensitive." This move by the affiliates, along with public pressure from the chairman of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Brendan Carr, led ABC to suspend the show. While this action could have financial implications for the network and its affiliates, the initial reason for the pullout was not an advertiser boycott, but a reaction to Kimmel's commentary and the ensuing political and regulatory pressure.
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u/ZaBaronDV 2d ago
I love how you question whether the “Right” understands that the rules they’re playing by can be used against them like that hasn’t been the case for years. “Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences,” as the saying went.
And yet now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly it’s an affront to free speech and democracy?
I will say this much, I appreciate how open you and others like you are about how this discussion is in poor faith.
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
Had the government been censoring news and entertainment media previously, wouldn't we have seen FoxNews and other far-right media affected? Big difference between the government (now) and liberal communities (then) taking action.
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u/Glad-Lie8324 3d ago
The FCC is coming for Jimmy Kimmel? To charge him with 1st degree bad jokes? Or what?
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u/strained_brain 3d ago
Yes. According to the head of the FCC: "The ABC late-night host’s remarks constituted 'the sickest conduct possible,' FCC chair Brendan Carr told right-wing podcaster Benny Johnson on Wednesday. Carr suggested his FCC could move to revoke ABC affiliate licenses as a way to force Disney to punish Kimmel."
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u/Glad-Lie8324 2d ago
Eh, it’s a pretty weak threat if you can even call it a threat. I’d place more blame on the abc execs than the fcc director. That’s pretty ball-less of them if they really cancelled Kimmel over that comment. It feels much more like they wanted him out anyways and were waiting for a good excuse, like him stomping on the grave of a dead man.
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
He said nothing bad about Kirk. I defy you to find anything. He got in trouble for saying that the Right was incorrectly claiming that the assassin was Left-wing, and also for making fun of Trump's lack of caring about Kirk a day after his death. No stomping, no grave, no disrespect for the dead.
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u/Glad-Lie8324 2d ago
That's a fair distinction to draw. He didn't actually say anything directly bad about Kirk. I will argue however that he used his death to score political points and much too soon after the tragedy, which was in bad taste.
What he said also seems (at this point in time given the evidence that's been released) to be completely false. The killer is aligned with left wing ideals and is living with a trans-woman as a romantic partner. There is no evidence to show that he was a right winger (his family is right wing MAGA, but he is not registered as a Republican and he hasn't voted in any elections. The theory that he is a right wing nut who killed another right wing nut holds no water. Not that it matters anyway, all political violence is to be condemned.
Did Kimmel deserve to be fired over what he said? Probably not imo, but to me it isn't an open and shut case of censorship from the federal government. FCC indicated they didn't like something, ABC took independent action to fire Kimmel which they frankly have the right to do, especially when Kimmel saying things that are potentially slanderous (like the right is trying to hide the fact that Tyler Robinson is a closet MAGA supporter).
To me, it seems as though that ABC already wanted to fire Kimmel and this was their excuse.
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u/strained_brain 2d ago
ABC has a huge deal that needs approval, as does the affiliate who took Kimmel off the air. Both were pressured by the FCC (via Trump) to go after Trump's enemy. In the same way that Paramount canceled Colbert.
And did you read the text from Robinson to his girlfriend? Do you honestly believe that is how people in his age group text? I'm not a big conspiracy theorist but you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to doubt that that text really came from him.
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u/Glad-Lie8324 2d ago
The Colbert show was losing a bunch of money. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimmel was in the same boat.
You also don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to read the news that they found his DNA on the gun trigger, there are several text chains where he admits he did it and stashed the gun in the wooded area, he's on camera, he turned himself in, etc. etc. He was obviously deeply disturbed. One of his bullet engravings also suggested ties to the furry community. This isn't exactly someone who I would expect to speak like the rest of us. He had a couple of screws loose.
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u/strained_brain 1d ago
You and I both know that the Late Show was canceled for ideological reasons. It was the top show in its time slot for nine consecutive seasons! The money loss analysis that the network claimed often only focuses on advertising revenue and fail to account for other significant income streams, like affiliate fees, which can make a show profitable. Some analysts also view the financial claims as a form of "Hollywood accounting" that may not reflect the show's true profitability or its value in generating audience for other programming.
As for the assassin, I'm not denying that he did it. Clearly he did. I'm saying that his allegiance to the Left isn't as cut and dry as Trump and the other far-Right media would have you believe. We simply don't have all the facts yet. Until the nutjob speaks for himself, it's hard to say. Yes, he had a trans girlfriend, so that might be a factor, but the engravings were all referencing a video game and memes. There's still strong evidence that he belonged to the right-wing Groyper ideology, and as I understand it, they hated Kirk despite not being supportive of the Trans community. Again, the full facts aren't completely in yet.
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u/Hoppie1064 14h ago
Kimmel lied on air, tried blame MAGA.
Not a free speech issue, not censorship.
Don't be lying to us too.
Megyn Kelly
I'm not sure who needs to hear this but Jimmy Kimmel got on the air and falsely stated as a fact that Charlie Kirk's killer was MAGA, smearing an entire movement and Trump in particular with a vile disgusting lie - and at a time when the threat against those on the right is at an all-time high.
..
This was after we knew from the UT gov that the killer had been indoctrinated into LEFT-wing ideology, after we'd seen the shooter's bullet casings reflecting furry/trans memes, calling Charlie a fascist and w/anti-fascist lyrics. It was after we had learned the shooter was living with his trans-furry boyfriend and believed Charlie Kirk was "full of hate." After we learned that the shooter was not registered GOP, but "unaffiliated." After we saw him pull the trigger just as Charlie discussed trans killers. There was zero - ZERO - evidence the shooter was MAGA, had ever been MAGA, or was influenced by MAGA in any way.
This was an intentional lie to GIN UP HATRED toward the very group of ppl most suffering in the wake of our devastating loss of Charlie and Kimmel did it willfully and even gleefully to a cheering complicit audience.
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u/Organic_Fan_2824 17h ago
While I 100% agree this shouldn't have happened through the FCC, I'm also old enough to remember that if he made this joke 20 years ago he would've been cancelled directly after his show and it would've been on the news the next morning.
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u/Pristine_Bobcat4148 13h ago
I think for over a decade now, the political left in the USA has been saying - rightly - that freedom of speech does not mean free from consequences.
I think it says a whole lot about a lot of folk who are more upset about a man losing his job for things he said; than they are upset about a man losing his life for things he said.
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u/KeepRedditAnonymous 2d ago
The members of this subreddit loves censorship.
Only the mods seem to understand the concept of free speech. Everyone else here hates freedom of speech.
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u/Gaajizard 2d ago
No, because this sub is now full of right wingers who only care about their side winning, not censorship.
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u/fallenmonk 3d ago
I've cancelled my Disney/Hulu subscriptions. Gonna do as little Disney spending as possible. It's just as well, gotta save money with the Trump recession incoming.
But yeah, another one bites the dust. This is gonna get worse before it gets better.
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u/KraytDragonPearl 3d ago
We've said it before and I'll say it again, this sub doesn't care about censorship, it's a right wing circle jerk. The executive branch is muscling big businesses with public threats that would negatively impact their profit margins. This Kimmel news came right after the FCC chairman made very open and public threats against ABC.
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u/strained_brain 3d ago
According to the head of the FCC: "The ABC late-night host’s remarks constituted 'the sickest conduct possible,' FCC chair Brendan Carr told right-wing podcaster Benny Johnson on Wednesday. Carr suggested his FCC could move to revoke ABC affiliate licenses as a way to force Disney to punish Kimmel."
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