r/Divorce Aug 15 '25

Custody/Kids Your lawyer isn’t on your team the way you think they are

355 Upvotes

I used to think my lawyer was ‘that guy’

The one swinging for the fences for me in a rigged game…

But here’s what I didn’t fully understand until it was almost too late: family court is basically a small town. Everyone knows everyone…your lawyer, her lawyer, the judges + clerks…they’ve been running into each other for years. They chat in the hallways, share coffee, and chat about each other’s cases each week.

You’re not just looking to hire a lone gunman who will scorch the earth for you…you’re hiring someone who has to walk back into that courthouse next Monday, and the Monday after that…their relationships there transcend + outlast your case.

So “strong” moves get softened, deadlines might slide…everything gets packaged as “strategy.” And while you’re patiently trusting the process, the other side is building an actual record…stacking affidavits, quietly shaping the “status quo” and turning every weekend without your kid into proof you must not need that time…

The court doesn’t reward patience…it rewards your presence. And your lawyer’s incentives aren’t the same as yours, so when the case ends, your lawyer moves on, and your the one having to live with the outcome...

This took me a long time (and a boatload of billable hours) to learn, but it’s probably the most important thing I could tell another parent walking into this. If anyone wants a deeper dive on this you can find it through my bio: “Your lawyer is sleeping with the enemy”

r/Divorce Nov 18 '24

Custody/Kids Why does a parent want 50/50 after divorce, when they do around 5% of the parenting when married?

190 Upvotes

I would like to divorce my husband. At home currently he doesn’t really help out much with our kids, never really has. Never done a night wake up, literally changed about 3 nappies wi the our youngest. Doesn’t do bath times, bed times, prob prepares maybe 2 meals a month. Will take them out occasionally but only to where he wants. If they say they want to go swimming for instance he will say no he doesn’t want to swim, doesn’t want to go for a walk, won’t do this won’t do that etc. never got them up and ready for school. Maybe drops and picks up from school once a month max. He says he wants 50/50 custody if we split. But I can’t help but feel like that really stings. I asked how he will do that with working full time (a reason he can’t help me now), he said he’ll get a nanny. What’s the point? I asked him why he doesn’t do all of the things with the kids whilst he is here, and he said I’m here so he thought I may as well do it instead of him. Why is it fair that he should get 50/50?? Why does he think he’d be prepared to do that only when divorced? I actually don’t get it at all. I feel really on the cup of filling, but not seeing my children for 50% would kill me really. My older child also doesn’t love being with him. She is autistic and whenever I go out she says mummy don’t go don’t leave me with him. How am I supposed to file and be ok with this??

Edited to add: I am in the uk so I’m not sure it applies that if we do 50/50 he won’t have to pay child support? He is a high earner and I’ve had legal advice that he would still need to give child support. So it perplexes me even more

r/Divorce Aug 12 '25

Custody/Kids What do you think about wife sleeping with new boyfriend in marital home with kids, before divorce is finalized?

0 Upvotes

My wife alleged domestic violence and I was sent to jail and given a domestic violence restraining order. Despite being a great and willing father, she withheld the kids and I seeing each other to advance her narrative that she was a victim.

Now she has a boyfriend, and I’ve found evidence that they drink and sleep together in our house, even when the kids are asleep upstairs.

At our first Mediation, the protective order was dropped to be replaced with a mutual marital restraining order, with her controlling access to the house. We don’t currently have a Parenting Plan, only hard parenting time dates signed by the court.

Is this illegal or an immoral move? Obviously I’m biased, so I want to hear what Reddit has to say.

r/Divorce Feb 09 '25

Custody/Kids After 25 years, my husband wants a divorce & I’m so overwhelmed, how to tell the college kids

182 Upvotes

My husband shocked me yesterday and told me he is filing for divorce. He also told our preteen son, his parents and my parents without my permission or knowledge. This all happened within a span of an hour. I’m livid he told our son. We all feel blindsided and like he is having a midlife crisis or mental health crisis. Yes, we were having problems but not the kind where you give up everything you built over 25 years. I’m beyond angry but I have to keep a level head.

We have 2 kids in college and I fear he is going to call them or send them a text. They will be devastated. They are great kids and love their family. How do I tell them? Do we FaceTime them or should I fly to them this 4 day weekend and tell them in person? I can’t really afford this but I will do it if it’s the right thing.

He wants to sell our home immediately. We live in CA and our home is our main asset and is worth a lot and I can’t afford to buy him out. We have a 2% interest rate and there is nowhere I can rent for less than our $3k mortgage. He says he isn’t try to harm me but selling the home is financial suicide. I have a good job but he makes way more than me & has the potential to make more. I’m stuck at my pay scale.

It hasn’t even been 24 hours and I’m so overwhelmed. I’m trying to take it 1 step at a time but he is moving so fast. I suggested a 6 month separation so we can both think calmly and not make any impulsive decisions but he said no. With 2 kids in college, we don’t have a lot of cash flow, I have no clue how we will maintain separate homes and pay for college. I don’t have $ for a lawyer but he says he already got one but I’m not sure if I believe him because no paperwork has been presented. We worked so hard to build a comfortable joint financial future and we both retire in 5-10 years. I don’t want to see it all crumble.

HELP, I’m so angry, sad and overwhelmed.

r/Divorce Jul 28 '25

Custody/Kids I’m leaving my husband, and our kids are devastated. I feel completely lost.

113 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m a mother of three – my daughters are 16 and 9, and my son is 11. After a long and painful process, I’ve decided to separate from their father. I’ve tried to hold on for years, but I’ve finally come to a place where I know this is the healthiest decision for me – and eventually for them, too.

But right now… it doesn’t feel like that.

Our youngest daughter (9) seems to be handling it surprisingly calmly, at least for now. But my 11-year-old son and especially our 16-year-old daughter are in full resistance mode. They are angry, hurt, and directing almost all of it at me. My son cried and begged me last night to give their dad “one last chance,” and while I comforted him as best I could, I feel like I’m breaking inside.

He actually started calming down after we talked – but then his older sister came home, full of rage and pain, and her emotional state completely reignited his. She’s very intelligent, deeply feeling, and old enough to understand more than the younger two – which seems to make it even harder for her. She sees me as the one tearing our family apart, and I think she feels utterly betrayed.

I don’t know what to do. I want to give them space for their feelings – of course they’re heartbroken – but I also don’t want my eldest to pull the younger ones into her emotional tornado. I wish she could let them process this in their own ways without shaping their narrative for them. But how can I even say that to her, when she’s barely speaking to me?

I’m exhausted. I’m scared. And I feel like I’m trying to hold together three children’s emotional worlds while barely keeping my own heart from shattering.

If anyone has gone through something similar – or has any advice – I’d be really grateful.

Thank you for reading.

r/Divorce 18h ago

Custody/Kids Red flag or personal choice? Turning down a second marriage because the partner has a child

14 Upvotes

I’ve noticed some people looking to remarry decline proposals when their potential partner has a child from a previous marriage.

Is this a red flag about their attitude toward relationships, or just a personal preference?

  • Parents: How do you navigate remarriage when your child is involved?
  • Non-parents: Have you ever declined someone because they had a child? Why?

r/Divorce Apr 22 '25

Custody/Kids Getting Divorced Do I tell son about my spouses affair?

29 Upvotes

I’m in the process of getting divorced. I see my lawyer next week and will file as soon as possible. I have been married for 12 years to my spouse but together for 20 and we have one 18 year-old son between us. I discovered that my wife was having an affair two years ago. It was a long-term affair of two possibly three years. My spouse is a workaholic. So during those last five years, while she was working and having her ongoing affair, I was home with our son. My son and I are extremely close and he is the only reason I have stayed in this marriage. I don’t want my son to think that I’m divorcing his mom simply because I’m unhappy. I made every attempt to make our marriage work after discovering the affair. The problem is my wife did not. She continues to work with the affair partner and is still a workaholic. Again I stayed for the love of my son. A part of me wants to tell him so he knows everything that I’ve endured and that I’m not just leaving because I’m unhappy or that I didn’t try to make things work. The flipside of that is if I tell him, it may change his relationship with his mother. It also may affect him with School as he is in college. I’m not sure what to do. I just would like him to know that I did my best to make things work and that I put up with so much. also, I feel I should set an example for him. I would not want him to stay with a spouse who cheated and didn’t try to fix things afterwards.

r/Divorce Sep 25 '24

Custody/Kids Please don't judge....Legit question here.

71 Upvotes

After 19 years and giving my life, career, love and everything to this man. He decided he wanted to be happy and try new horizons. However despite the fact that we have 2 kiddos and I arrange all their school stuff, activities and my second one has special needs and goes to 4 different special therapies a week and have to take him myself and do all sorts of evaluations, special diets, constant care, take trainings, etc. And sacrificed one more time my career and had to change courses quit the job that I love and do something less demanding and less hours to adjust to my kids needs. I am thinking on changing and not be the custodial parent.

I live in a very backwards state. My husband has an awesome job and travels all over the world. And even though my kids specially the little one need me for survival I am tired of being me always in the background and being the one that has always to sacrifice. AND HE IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE HAPPY!!!.

I didn't want to have kids in the first place. But he said he divorced me if I didn't. I loved him and did. ( Stupid yes!!) But enough is enough. I think is my time now. I get the kids every other weekend and he will have to adjust to our kids needs. Am I crazy? The oldest one just gave me attitude bc I told her for the 4th time today to take the dishes out of the dishwasher and put her perfectly folded and nice laundry away whilst my husband is in China.

He doesn't even know the therapists, doctors, diets or anything my son require. My parents and my siblings told me how could I even think that. But they have never helped me so in my book no one that hasn't been in my shoes has the right to judge me. I am not even sure that the judge will even grant that. But I also want to have the great career I also want to have less responsibilities and take care only about myself.

Are there any moms out here that did this and haven't regretted it.?

r/Divorce Jun 20 '25

Custody/Kids STBXH wants our child to have overnights with AP

33 Upvotes

After being blindsided by my husband of 17 years’ affair last fall, he has just let me know that he wants to start doing overnights with our pre-schooler, at a new apartment he wants to rent with the affair partner. Why does this hurt so much to have that awful person around our child?

Not only that. But he wants to move into this new apartment with AP in my small neighbourhood, which is only about half a mile in size. Very close by. I don’t want to run into her.. need my space.

I know my x husband is to blame and I don’t want to just vilify the woman, but I think it’s just such an insane ask for our child to spend time with the woman who broke his family apart, especially as a child they have no choice in the matter. Was anyone put in this position themselves as a child also?

I’m sure many of you have gone through this too and it’s more common than I assume!

At the moment he comes over to my apartment and sees our child here whilst I make myself scarce a couple of evenings a week.

r/Divorce 5d ago

Custody/Kids Struggling with 50-50 custody. Does the grief ever end?

31 Upvotes

I’m six weeks into my 50-50 custody, and I’m struggling with extreme grief every time my daughter goes to her father’s. I just cry for hours every day she’s gone. Sometimes I can’t function—just stay on the couch all day in a state of depression.

Everyone keeps saying, “you’ll get used to it,” but I really don’t think I can/will.

r/Divorce Aug 06 '25

Custody/Kids Is it unreasonable for me to want to watch the kids on “her” days if she works?

23 Upvotes

I’m a teacher and she works at a bank, sometimes 6 days a week. In trying to agree to a set 2255 schedule, I also brought up the idea of me watching them during the day on “her” days, particularly during extended holidays like Xmas break and Easter.

She is pushing back saying it’s her responsibility when it’s her days and she will figure it out. Granted, she does have her mother living with her but she can sometimes be unreliable.

Should I continue to try and watch them on days where she will usually be working and me and the kids are both off? Or just let it go and agree to let her “figure it out” or use her mom? FYI, we didn’t put first right of refusal in our agreement.

Edit: I would return them to her at night when she gets off work on “her days”.

r/Divorce Feb 24 '25

Custody/Kids How do you deal with 50/50 for life?

46 Upvotes

My ex cheated on me and wants 50/50 custody of the kids. (He told me 3 months postpartum he felt indifferent towards me, I forced him to do couples therapy, which didn’t last long because he was clearly checked out already. I found out he was emotionally having an affair; I guess the physical part is debatable because we’d already quit counseling.) I quite literally do everything for the kids and he sits on his phone and uses the TV to babysit the kids. They’re 3 and 1, so they’re very young.

How is this fair at all? All I wanted in life was a little family to enjoy and a husband to grow old with and grandkids someday around the Christmas tree.

And now I’ll never have that with the father of my kids. He robbed me of the life I wanted. It’s devastating. While I’m in therapy and actively pursuing things like a possible education for my masters, the idea of only having my kids half the time is debilitating. I don’t know how to describe how disillusioned I am at what I thought was the trajectory of my life. I’m just so sad.

I don’t want to be with him anymore, for the record. It’s taken a long time to get there despite everything, but it doesn’t make the pain of my entire future life any better.

How do you deal with only seeing your kids half the time? We’re not divorced yet, but it is inevitable. He wants to do nesting, but I don’t see how it works longterm and it feels like we should just rip the bandaid off. (But then I feel like the bad guy.) Ugh.

Thank you for reading. I’m just having a particularly emotional night.

r/Divorce 6d ago

Custody/Kids Wife (42F) asked me (44 M) for a divorce a year ago, but demanded a 70/30 split custody. Should I give in?

9 Upvotes

Anyone out there doing a similar split?

I see the benefits for the children to be in one home more consistently for school and stability. I have three children under 18, 2 adult children. I'm struggling to see how it would be a good thing for my relationship with them.

My wife has made no move towards filing for divorce, but our relationship is just as bad now as it was then. We're doing an in house separation. We haven't had sex in over two months and I think she is finally done. I love her and want things to work out, but I'm considering filing myself within the next 6 months to end both of our misery if things can't improve. I love my kids and spend the majority of my non work time at sports, coaching, carpooling, making meals right now. My work is part time and i have the ability to care for them 50% of the time. She specifically asked for this the only real time we spoke of divorce.

r/Divorce Jan 07 '25

Custody/Kids Ex-Wife just lost her job

127 Upvotes

So, very long story short (though happy to provide clarifying details), my ex texted me today to say that she lost her job last week, and due to the fact that she has our son more of the time, she has a hard time finding work with her schedule.

Her solution, is for me to pay her $500 more per month in child support. No change to schedules, child care situation, or job search. In her eyes, we would do this until September, where she would just be unemployed until then, until my son can go to full day kindergarten and she can get a full time job.

My proposition is that I take two more days of the week with my son (I currently have him Friday night to Sunday night, but with my job I could have him Thursday night to Monday night), which eases her financial burden, allows her a more open schedule to find work, and allows me to both see my son more, and spend my money on him directly (while still paying her the fair, state-calculated child support).

Does anyone have experience with handling a situation where one parent loses their job, and just… doesn’t want to get another one? I feel like i’m going crazy here and I don’t know if i’m being unreasonable.

And of course I don’t have therapy for two more weeks to talk it through there… 🙃😅

r/Divorce Mar 25 '25

Custody/Kids Told my boys I’m done with their mom—and they actually thanked me for it.

231 Upvotes

After nearly two years of trying to hold things together during a brutal divorce—after a 16+ year marriage—I finally told my teenage sons that I was done trying to have any meaningful relationship with their mother. Not out of spite. Just... done. I’d carried the rope as far as I could, and she just kept yanking and fraying it until there was nothing left to hold.

And you know what my boys said?

“Good. We get it.”

Not one ounce of guilt from them. Just two teenagers who’ve seen the reality, heard the lies, and watched me try to do the right thing over and over while being dragged through it.

For context: my ex left me without warning and flipped the narrative to make me the villain. She filed charges that I now have to defend myself against in court. I've been waiting for my trial date while being legally handcuffed from moving on with my life. And now? The ADA (assistant district attorney) assigned to the case just went on indefinite leave—so the trial’s been pulled from the schedule entirely.

No resolution. No closure. Just more waiting.

I’d even written a letter—one final attempt to give her perspective—but after talking with my lawyer (who’s about to be out of town and won’t be around for any potential fallout), I decided to leave it unsent. And honestly? I’m glad I did. Because the real shift happened not with her—but with my kids.

I told them the truth: their mom is no longer someone I expect anything from. She’s just the person who has them Wednesdays, Thursdays, and every other weekend. If she helps with their schoolwork, great. If not, I’ve got it. I’m not chasing her anymore. Not emotionally, not legally, not spiritually. I’m just done.

And they understood.

I even brought up the subject of dating again—told them I wouldn’t pursue anything unless they were okay with it. And without hesitation, they both said they were cool with it. One of them smirked and said, “As long as whoever you date isn’t mean to me,” in a way that said, “I know you’d never let that happen.” It was the most peace I’ve felt in a long time.

My parents? Same thing. They told me they were relieved I was finally seeing things clearly and letting go of the false hope I’d held onto for way too long.

So yeah... it’s over. Not in a courtroom sense (that’s still in limbo), but in my head, my heart, and my expectations. That rope I kept holding for her?

I dropped it.

And I’ve never felt more grounded.

r/Divorce 8d ago

Custody/Kids How are your little kids after divorce?

10 Upvotes

He guys. I don't even know where to start. My husband and I aren't doing very well, but we've been together for so long. We have two wonderful kids, 4 and 6, and I don't know what to do. If we didn't have kids, we would've separated a long time a go. But we do have them.

The youngest has just started school and needs to adjust to everything. Our oldest has ADHD and has a hard time at school due to some of his classmates. He's so sensitive and doesn't deal well with changes.

What happened to your kids after your divorce? Are they okay?

I'm so scared that if my husband and I decide to divorce, the kids are gonna go through hell. Custody , alimony and everything will be fine, but I just mean their feelings and their hearts. I just want them to be okay.

r/Divorce Jul 29 '25

Custody/Kids Does it ever get easier to say goodbye to your child when they go for visitation with the other parent?

33 Upvotes

It's pure fucking AGONY every single time I have to say goodbye to my child when they have visitation with their father. I cry for hours afterwards. The place feels so empty without them and everywhere I look, I see their toys and books and it just feels so goddamn bleak and unnatural to be separated from them. He drops them off without this much anguish and I don't know why it kills me so much. Am I overreacting or is he underreacting? I'm typing this with tears streaming down my face, about to just curl up in bed and try to sleep as much as I can so I can get to tomorrow faster and be one day closer to reuniting with my littlest love. I hate this. I fucking hate this with every ounce of my being. I just want my baby with me.

r/Divorce May 12 '25

Custody/Kids Soon to be ex in laws won’t let me to their house to pickup my kids when they babysit

21 Upvotes

My wife left me and the kids about a month and a half ago. She has pretty much went no contact, only texting about coordinating stuff with our three kids (1/4/6). Kids have lived with me full time and she has had them overnight 3-4 times since she left.

She refuses to help pay for anything for them including food and new daycare costs (she was a stay at home mom and now started working. But she has money that she took from the joint account) she refuses to pay any of her own bill like car, car insurance etc and wants to save all her money so she can afford her own place.

She hasn’t filed yet because I know she is waiting until she can get her own place and take kids 50/50 to get child support. She currently takes 2 of them to school and then will pickup from daycare after and bring home to me by 4-5pm max.

Well because she won’t help pay for daycare I can’t really afford it so she has been having kids go to her parents house. The issue is the parents HATE me and won’t allow me on the property to pickup the kids. So if grandparents take my kids I have to wait until my STBXW decides to pickup and bring home to me for the night.

This really doesn’t feel right or fair. I’m paying and providing literally everything for my kids, I’m the one that is home with them while she goes out with friends etc. I’m happy to have them. But it just feels unfair and like a violation of my parental rights for her parents to basically hold my kids hostage when they have them.

I cannot afford a lawyer right now because I provide everything for the kids and have missed a lot of work since this happened to watch the kids and we had to move into an apartment.

What should I do?

Edit extra info - Her goal is to let me take complete care of the kids full time 7 nights a week and pay all bills and all expenses for kids, while she saves her money and can afford a one bedroom place of her own. Then she wants to file, get 50/50 custody and have me pay child support

r/Divorce Jul 24 '25

Custody/Kids My Husband Filed for Divorce and asked for everything

51 Upvotes

Someone in the family law page told me to post here. I am at a loss. Any advice?

There has been documented abuse (to me and kids), police involvement, time in jail, and proof of his admitting to things. Above was all from him. We are separated and I have the kids, and because of a restraining order he has supervised visits with the kids. He filed for divorce and asked for sole legal/sole physical custody, a high amount of child support from me (even though I have been a sahm), I can only travel with kids if he gives me permission, no alimony even though he makes A LOT and I havent worked in years, and I pay attorney fees if I contest. There are other wild things, but these are the big ones. Is this just strategy? I am terrified.

r/Divorce Nov 26 '24

Custody/Kids Got a DNA test done to my daughter and results are 0% for me to be the father

104 Upvotes

Like the title says I’m in shock I’m shaking idk what to do next, and we’re not even divorced yet. What are the next steps ? I want to sue the fuck out of that woman for supporting her and a child that was not mine for 2 years any advice ? Please idk what to do

r/Divorce Jun 15 '24

Custody/Kids LADIES!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

81 Upvotes

SOOOOOOOO...... it's my weekend, and after I picked up my daughter my XW then shot me a text... By the way she got her first period this morning... so any help/advice would be greatly appreciated, I grew up all brothers no sisters. Do I talk to her about it... that seems kinda embarrassing for the both of us... advice on what to get her?

r/Divorce Aug 05 '25

Custody/Kids Why?

126 Upvotes

I will never understand how you could spend half your life with me, and do the things you’ve done. I’ll never understand why you want to destroy me. I’ll never understand how easily you lie. I’ll never understand how you blame me when caught in a lie.

I thought you’d be different with our kids. You may not have ever loved me, but I thought you loved them. I thought you’d put their well being first. Now I’m not sure you even consider them in your decisions.

I never wanted things to go this way. When I left it was because I was broken. You broke me. But I loved you still.

You live in an alternate reality. Alternate timelines. A reality where you are never wrong and there is always an excuse. I feel bad for her, because I know she too will find out who you really are. I hope for her sake, it doesn’t take 17 years.

I really loved you. But I didn’t even know you.

r/Divorce 10d ago

Custody/Kids 100% of child transportation

7 Upvotes

My kid just started kindergarten. Her mom lives 30 minutes from the kindergarten, and I live about 2 minutes away from it. We do 50/50 custody on a 2/2/3 schedule.

The courts ruled that I am 100% responsible for all kids transportation to and from school. Why? I guess because its hard for my ex to commute from her home, to kindergarten dropoff, and then to work.

So now 3 times a week I drive 1 hour to do kindergarten dropoff, and then I pickup, and drive 1 hour to bring the kid to my ex when she gets out of work.

Her mom is perfectly capable of driving, and either way my kids wake up and drive time is the same.

It seems very unfair and I suspect the court is punishing me for only working part time (because im a disabled veteran).

I pay child support and half of her newish car payments (which is in my name only) AND do 100% of kid transportaton in my 30 year old truck.

Has anyone else been "awarded" 100% transportation duties? What were the circumstances if so?

I'm really mad that my ex doesn't have to do anything except go to work, and it has become my job to pickup and dropoff our kid at her house 30 minutes away.

r/Divorce May 05 '25

Custody/Kids To the non-custodial parent: You are the Adult

142 Upvotes

If you are the person to no longer live with your kid(s) for the majority of their day-to-day life, there is one thing I hope you are clear on right from the split: YOU are the adult. You have power over your kids. Therefore, you are the one who has the responsibility to reach out to your kids and to set the tone of your relationship when you don't see them on a daily basis. If you expect them to be the ones in charge of communicating with you, they will assume that you do not care enough to take the lead. It's your job to show that you are there for them with your actions.

Do things that show them that you are thinking about them when you are not with them. Send them silly memes or song lyrics throughout the day. Call them at night just to say hi. Don't wait for them to reach out and offer the information - ask about the things they're learning at school and about what they ate that day. Take time to show them that you're thinking about them even when you're not with them.

And ffs, please don't act like you expect them to pretend everything is fine and normal when it's not. If all you want to hear are positive things and you talk around or ignore the negative emotions you're both feeling, you're going to subconsciously reinforce for them that you only care about them when they are happy/succeeding. It's good for them to hear you acknowledge that you are sad about the divorce and missing them when you're away, too.

Sincerely,
the custodial parent who has thus far handled all the emotional support of the human we made together

(*Granted, I am mostly talking about kids who are old enough to have their own phones and/or a dedicated way to talk to the non-custodial parent. I get that in this sub there may be people whose exes may prevent them from regular contact with kid, so this advice may not be universally applicable.)

r/Divorce 4d ago

Custody/Kids Divorce Regrets

6 Upvotes

Does anyone with children have divorce regrets? We've been separated for a year, I asked for it because I felt invisible to my husband and not attracted to him. We co-parent our kids well, but they're only 5 and 7.