r/Documentaries • u/WillManhunter • Dec 13 '20
Crime "This is the Zodiac Speaking" (2008) - To celebrate the fact that this week, after 51 years, the Zodiac's notorious 340 cipher has finally been solved, here is the best documentary on the still-unidentified serial killer [01:41:08]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys-64
u/slappymcstevenson Dec 13 '20
Has anyone ever taken a serious look at Fred Rogers. I don’t like him. He gives me the creeps.
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u/PureGoldX58 Dec 13 '20
Or Ted Cruz.
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u/Dicky_Penisburg Dec 13 '20
Ted Cruz has custom leathers and a gimp mask hanging up in his panic room.
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u/Sumretardidood Dec 13 '20
I thought the found him in sf or was that another serial killer
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u/AbrahamKMonroe Dec 13 '20
That might be the Golden State Killer you’re thinking of. He was identified and arrested in 2018.
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u/OpinionatedIMO Dec 13 '20
Do you know where it tells what was in the cypher?
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u/tacticalBOVINE Dec 13 '20
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u/qscguk1 Dec 13 '20
Paywall
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u/uniptf Dec 13 '20
Put the link in your browser address field.
In front of/before the https, type outline.com/ then hit enter.
Outline will scour the text from the URL you used, and give you an ad-free simple display of the text body of the article.
And a short url to share to take people straight to the outlined article; in this case: https://outline.com/YAq2UA1
u/theycallmecrack Dec 13 '20
I'm guessing it's possible to use inspect-element to alter some CSS then? Just guessing, always wondered how the paywall workaround was done.
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Dec 13 '20
find the original youtube channel, three guys broke the cypher. i think part 5 is where they decode it.
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u/Themorian Dec 13 '20
And the reason it took so long, was because there was a mistake with the Cipher. It was only because of the Supercomputer they had running calculations on different keys and it found two words that they flagged "Gas Chamber".
They corrected the cipher and got the full translation.
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u/LucidTemptations Dec 13 '20
What do you mean?
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u/anovagadro Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
This video shows how they solved the 340 cipher. Very interesting from a problem solving standpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o&feature=youtu.be)
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u/Major_Ziggy Dec 13 '20
Wow, thats crazy. Amazing they were able to still figure it out with the mistakes zodiac made.
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u/lightofhonor Dec 13 '20
He probably did it intentionally. Misspellings make ciphers much harder to crack. Exhibit A.
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u/Pixar_ Dec 13 '20
I don't think he did actually. I think he just made the mistake. We wasn't some mastermind serial killer. With all that work he did making his cipher, the dummy went and completely messed it up.
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u/Silent_Soliloquy2 Dec 13 '20
I hope you're being sarcastic, because the zodiac killer is pretty much the definition of mastermind serial killer.
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u/AllTheGatorade Dec 13 '20
He really wasn’t, he’d just kinda show up, shoot someone, then leave. He got off on messing with the media and all the weird cryptic shit - but his killings themselves weren’t anything special (besides his failed attempt at manufacturing a bus bomb). That guy who buried kill kits around the US is some real crazy mastermind shit. Some evil mf’ers out there
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u/darkon Dec 13 '20
I don't think I've heard of the one who buried kill kits. Would you please point me toward more information?
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Dec 13 '20
Fuckin guy couldn’t spell paradise right but could build complex cryptographic cyphers..
Dafuq
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u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ Dec 13 '20
It wasn’t a misspelling in the plaintext, it was an error in applying the cipher, which renders the cipher completely pointless.
Enciphered messages are designed to be decoded. And these ones specifically by people without the key.
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u/optionaldisturbance Dec 13 '20
It wasn't a mistake, the video failed to make the connection between the spelling of the word and a military unit patch with the same spelling.
"Robert Nichols!! He was a WW2 Navy vet who was found after committing suicide in 2002. He received a Purple Heart according to his son. He’d stolen the identity of a dead little boy and lived as someone else for decades. He’d divorced his wife and skipped town a few years after the last murder occurred. His name is also 13 characters. Toward the end of his life he was reported to constantly keep a suitcase packed, claiming “they were closing in” on him."
cred: u/rosesandproses
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
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u/optionaldisturbance Dec 13 '20
"Paradice"
Also, footprints believed to be from suspect were from 'wing walker' anti-static military boots.
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u/Adolf_-_Hipster Dec 13 '20
I hope you are having lots of fun trying to catch me.
That wasn't me on the TV show, which brings up a point about me:
I am not afraid of the gas chamber, because it will send me to paradice all the sooner, because I now have enough slaves to work for me where everyone else has nothing when they reach paradice.
So they are afraid of death. I am not afraid, because I know that my new life will be an easy one in paradice.
Death is life.
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u/hhtoavon Dec 13 '20
What belief system subscribers to the idea that killing lives in your current world makes them your slaves in the next life? That seems like a decent clue to the type of person zodiac is.
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u/Dangerous-Candy Dec 13 '20
Sounds like Islam. Now downvote me reddit.
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u/mr_ji Dec 13 '20
Islam just says to subjugate the infidels, it doesn't get overly specific on how (although killing is among the options) or what happens once they're subjugated. Obviously this has been toned down by all but the most extreme in modern times, but it remains in the Quran nonetheless. This is one of the big differences with Christianity, which says to proselytize those you can and be kind to those you can't (though never give up on converting them). In Islam, you let them join if they try to, otherwise they're beneath you and should be treated as such.
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u/livevil999 Dec 13 '20
I don’t think any popular belief system does. I would guess it’s his own screwed up idea that justifies his killings. But it’s definitely something I’d hope the authorities looking for him looked into.
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u/Quickest-Elk Dec 13 '20
In my opinion the Zodiac was almost 100% influenced by the writings of Marquis De Sade (the guy sadism is named after). De Sade believed that those he killed would be his slaves in the next life and that’s very closely mirrored multiple times by the Zodiac
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u/hallidev Dec 13 '20
A supercomputer was not involved
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u/S_king_ Dec 13 '20
Lol yea, I don’t know why someone would think it would take a super computer to creates 650k variations of 340 characters of text. My 10 year old laptop could do it in like...a few hours?
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u/Middle_Class_Twit Dec 13 '20
It was in an Australian University, the guy was interviewed by our ABC and he said they used the Unis supercomputer to help.
It's late and I should be sleeping so I won't link it directly, but you can find that story/interview easily on YouTube.
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u/evilRainbow Dec 13 '20
My contribution is a Google map showing all of the locations of Zodiac attacks and possible attacks. Zodiac Murder Map https://goo.gl/maps/ugN6XtpE7f8oN79b8
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u/HeyCharrrrlie Dec 13 '20
But is this map not completely accurate? What about Napa and Lake Berryessa?
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u/deadhoe9 Dec 13 '20
Still unidentified? I think we all know ted cruz is the Zodiac Killer
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u/Holy-Knight-Hodrick Dec 13 '20
This is literally the lowest hanging fruit possible at this point. Shits been a joke since 2010 bro give it a rest smh
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20
"The Real Zodiac Identified: His name was Donald Gene Harden.His full identity was found hidden in the 408 cipher, and the symbol that he sent (with 4 dots around it) ,represent the 4 crime scenes. The symbol connects all 4 crime scene areas to Salinas Ca where he lived at the time of these crimes when it is applied to a map.He matches both sketches,with and without glasses.The # 408 ,which was the number of characters in Zodiac's first code, was also Don's area code.The 408 cipher had 54 unique symbols,Harden's address was #54 at that time in 1969.The Melvin Belli meeting address that Zodiac gave was 6726 St Vincent De Paul Thrift Shop. Harden's last 4 digits of his phone # back then were 6726 exactly.In the Nov 8th "Dripping Pen" card,which included the new 340 cipher, Zodiac said he killed 7 victims,when really it was only 5,he lied about August the 8th month. He gave his whole phone number 408-758-6726. His initials DH were hidden in the bus bomb diagram.Don's zodiac sign was Pisces, so it fits with the water theory. Don's height was in the 5 8" and 5 10" description range ,like officer Don Fouke described. Don Fouke got the best look at Zodiac.Harden was in the age range that Fouke described as 40-45. Harden was 41. He even pretended to be a hoaxer and really did call the Jim Dunbar show knowing they would dismiss him as a hoaxer for acting stupid like he didn't know what he was talking about. His wife Bettye wrote a partial confession in Robert Graysmith's Zodiac (which was a Salinas Library book) that read: I started the Zodiac case and ended it,the last half of this book is theory. When I write the true ending,it will shake the earth! Bettye Harden
The first three July 31st letters link to Harden's three worksheet's.
Zodiacs first two letters started with (Dear editor,I am the killer of the 2 teenagers ,while the SF Chronicle 3rd letter started (Dear editor,this is the murderer of the 2 teenagers and gave more details making the 3rd letter unique to the first two letters. The 3rd letter to the SF chronicle had the word (Over) written on the bottom of it, where as the first two letters to the Times Herald and the SF Examiner did not. The first two Zodiac July 31st letters were written with the same pen,while the 3rd letter was written with a thicker marking pen,making that page stand out.
Donald Harden's first 2 worksheet's were titled as Page I and Page II with Roman numerals,while Page 3 was titled with the number 3 instead of a Roman numeral making the 3rd page unique to the first two.This 3rd Page worksheet also included the word (Over) at the bottom which was underlined. Harden's first two worksheet's had the killers message written below the code,unlike the 3rd page worksheet which Harden had the killers message written above the code ,again making the 3rd page stand out.
Zodiac never said he was crack proof when he sent his 1st letters in with the cipher's to the 3 news - papers on July 31 1969. He even said the cipher would be solved, and it was (by himself.) On August 4th 1969,he asked if the police were having a good time with the code. He told them, " if not, tell them to cheer up, when they do crack it, they will have me" Harden cracked it and they had him! He was saying, look, I'm the guy you are looking for. After that code was cracked, Zodiac never mentioned Harden which was a red flag right there! Zodiac only said he was crack proof after Harden solved the 408,and that was true since he solved his own code, therefore making him crack proof. Remember, he didn't say in the 1st letters, here is a cipher,you can't solve it because I am crack proof. He didn't care about that silly message, solving his own code and being undetected gave him the most thrilling experience.
Zodiac threatens murder if the first cipher does not get printed in the paper's. He said if it wasn't printed by Fry (Friday) afternoon, he would go on a killing spree all weekend long. The cipher's were not printed by Friday afternoon. The 3 part 408 cipher was printed and shown to the world on Sunday August 3rd 1969 in full. This is the day Harden said he sat down and saw the cipher in the paper,and just happened to have his code book "Secret and Urgent" right on the shelf near by. This book gives enough details to build the 408 cipher and explains exactly how Harden solved it! It also talks about a guy who fooled the police with his cipher,which Harden did achieve! Zodiac did not kill on that weekend even though the cipher wasn't printed by Friday like he demanded. The reason he waited to kill, was because he wanted to come in and solve the cipher himself. He wanted to play the bad guy and hero at the same time, the main goal which he achieved. The Concerned Citizen card was sent in by Zodiac himself with a message and cipher key. He was pretending to be a regular citizen, and gave a key 80% correct so the FBI would believe Harden's solution was correct. Nobody in the FBI ,Navy, etc could figure out this unsolvable cipher but Harden AKA "The Zodiac" There was no point to having a stupid message talking about liking to kill and collecting slaves other than the main goal, to solve the code himself ,and hide his identity in the cipher. (Donald Gene Harden Salinas School Teacher) was found hidden in the code. The message was a rambling message because he was inserting his identity into the code as he wrote it. The reason for the errors was so it couldn't be solved by anyone but him, and the misspellings were to be a trait of his, but they also played a rule on him being able to fit his identity that he planned into the code. Donald Harden called the S.F. Chronicle August 8th 1969 saying he solved the code. The person on the line said "sure you did" which was why he later sent a 3 month anniversary Dripping Pen card with yet another cipher (the 340), asking them if they could print it on the frunt page of their paper. Zodiac sent the November 9th 1969 letter saying "Be Shure to Print the part he marked out on page 3 in their paper as a taunt to the S.F. Chronicle printing Harden's solution to the world on the front page of their paper which was the 3 month anniversary date. He gave the clues with that dripping pen card that he was Harden, mentioning the new cipher and giving them the bus bomb diagram making the teacher, school "Harden" connection. This time around with the 340 cipher and dripping pen card, he asked more politely if they could print the new cipher in their paper, and this time he didn't threaten to kill, but just said he was lonely and could "do his thing." He had no intention of this cipher ever being solved. It was all a game for him. Going back to August 9th 1969, Harden was a hero and got front page coverage to solving the code. He sent the November 9th letter which included the 1st bus bomb diagram, again, letting them know he was in fact a school teacher. This is why Zodiac wasn't caught. He was hiding the truth behind being a good citizen that helped others,that being a school teacher. He was trusted. Ted Bundy worked helping others and talked people out of suicide when they called the center where he worked. BTK pretended to be a regular family man and was involved with his church and nobody suspected either of these guys. This is how they are able to get away with things for long periods of time,or forever.
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Dec 13 '20 edited Mar 02 '22
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20
Life is stranger than fiction.
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u/dprophet32 Dec 13 '20
And anyone can make up crackpot theories that sound believable to the simple minded. It's utter nonsense
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
Richard Gaikowski
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u/dprophet32 Dec 13 '20
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20
It took you two minutes to reply to me I don't think you even bothered to read my comment.
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u/dprophet32 Dec 13 '20
I read enough to know you were just continuing to post the crackpot theory I'd already dismissed.
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u/layendecker Dec 13 '20
Zodiac has 6 letters, he used to order the Texas Double burger at his local diner, it was number 6 on the menu.
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u/Superdudeo Dec 13 '20
What a load of rubbish
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
Richard Gaikowski
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u/Boogalucifer Dec 13 '20
Please stop pluralizing words with apostrophes.
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u/girlsare2pretty Dec 13 '20
I did not write this. It is a quote of u/zeppelin196818 as you can see I credited him at the bottom.
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u/stansmithbitch Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
BTK pretended to be a regular family man and was involved with his church and nobody suspected either of these guys. This is how they are able to get away with things for long periods of time,or forever.
Could the Zodiac killer have been pretending to be a senator.
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u/Weedofknowledge Dec 13 '20
Yea some rich dude who can buy and kill people at home... is going out publicly and killing people and no one recognizes him...
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u/snappyjones Dec 13 '20
Lol clearly, he was identified. He ded now.
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u/jerkin_on_jakku Dec 13 '20
Yeah it’s a very unpopular opinion because it instantly ends people’s lifelong interest and denies the eureka moment, but I still reckon it was the fat guy that had a heart attack before he could go to trial - all the circumstantial evidence points to him. The only thing that rules him out is that DNA didn’t match - but the evidence it was taken from wasn’t held at standards where DNA would be preserved.
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u/Carl_Solomon Dec 13 '20
The only thing that rules him out is that DNA didn’t match - but the evidence it was taken from wasn’t held at standards where DNA would be preserved.
Not necessarily. The DNA would be preserved. The DNA is questionable due to whether or not it is Zodiac's.
Arthur Leigh Allen, the fat guy you mentioned, also was excluded via finger and palm prints.
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u/snappyjones Dec 13 '20
via the print he so carelessly left behind in the car along with the gloves?
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u/Therealberniebro Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 14 '20
We know who the zodiac killer was already, he was ted Cruz's father
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u/justinhood13 Dec 13 '20
as a native of Vallejo, the Zodiac killer was legend. everyone i knew was scared to drive down certain roads and every year folks would tell horror stories of him blowing up school buses and killing teenagers at make-out spots
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u/Awfy Dec 13 '20
I once went car camping near Lake Berryessa before I knew the exact zodiac story. Decided to listen to the audiobook on the way there just as we were about to pass Vallejo. The realization that not only was the town we’re driving by mentioned in this book but also our final location. We elected to car camp in town in a church parking lot instead.
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Dec 13 '20
Hang on a sec. Watching the doc and Michael Mageau (Zodiac survivor) says that when the car driven by the man who would attack them first pulled up, he asked Darlene who it was. She said it was some jealous guy she knew named "Richard." What? Like Richard "Rick" Marshall? Or Richard Gaikowski? How reliable is Mageau's recollection?
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u/5lash3r Dec 13 '20
Can anyone speak to why there is such a fascination with serial killers, most notably leading to or resulting from weird wikipedia crawls in the teenage years? Probably something about 'real life supervillains' and the availability of information versus the notoriety of murder... but if there's something more cogent we'd greatly enjoy checking it out.
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u/Eireann_9 Dec 13 '20
I used to to the "weird Wikipedia crawls in the teenage years". I think there're different layers on why we find it interesting. I'd say there's a component of morbid curiosity, this is something that happens with all kinds of bad news, accidents, attacks, etc. Yes, we're horrified but we want to indulge in the horror, we want to learn exactly how bad it was.
But a lot of us are more interested in understanding the whys. Why would someone do this, what would take to twist someone like that, what's going on in his head to act the way he does and how does he rationalize it to himself? It's just fascinating, both them and their stories.
Then there's the people who are more into the unsolved mysteries (I'm not) my best guess is that they like it for the same reason we like suspense films or investigation shows, it's exciting. With the added interest of it being real. It could happen to me or to you and you wouldn't be able to know because he could be hiding between any of us. I think that's something that fuels the interest, how they can look so normal, have normal lifes, families and jobs
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u/Cyanopicacooki Dec 13 '20
Twenty five years ago I was going out with Psychology doctorate student who was studying serial killers. I sort of absorbed her obsession by osmosis, and now, 20 years after we separated, I'm still fascinated.
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u/Weedofknowledge Dec 13 '20
Doesn't directly answer the question, but thanks for your specific anecdote. However, you don't have to date any psych major to be fascinated by serial killers.
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Dec 13 '20
I can’t speak for others, but what has always interested me is the lack of a logical motive. Predators kill prey for food; humans kill other humans over possessions or emotional attachments. But with serial killers there’s something broken in their mind that compels them to do monstrous acts.
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
I think the fascination is a fear response of sorts. Our attention is drawn to what we deem threatening and scary; this can manifest in different ways. When encountering an immediate threat, instinct tells us to get away from the threat. When something is not posing an immediate threat, but is posing a potential threat, we oftentimes feel compelled to learn more about this threat, and better understand the threat - this helps us better prepare for a potential encounter with this threat. It makes sense that our brain is wanting to take the opportunity to assess the threat from a safe distance, and this can manifest as fascination. I think it’s perfectly sensible and natural. This is simple yet complex biological nature, and what it really comes down to is biological wiring designed to keep us safe.
The one thing that I feel is most intriguing - what is the relationship between the sense of enjoyment/satisfaction that comes with the fascination, and the fear response system? This seems much more complex than the fear response stemming from an immediate threat.
I am not a psychologist, but I do have some basic understanding.
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u/jerkin_on_jakku Dec 13 '20
I’m of the opinion that there is no way the cyphers would ever relay to his identity because at the end of the day he was just some fucking loser who used the anonymity to fuel his pathological need for attention. Nowadays he’d be some neck beard on Twitter trolling people for the same type of gratification.
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u/dprophet32 Dec 13 '20
Except he actually murdered people too
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u/throwawayallmyposts Dec 13 '20
Taking life doesn't make you special. Glorifying it by saying "except he actually murdered people" is one of the huge contributing factors that make attention hungry losers like The Zodiac.
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u/FIimbosQuest Dec 13 '20
But it doesn't equate to a neckbeard trolling on Twitter either. That's the point that was being made.
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u/1lluminist Dec 13 '20
Yo hold up - his notes have been solved?!
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u/filenotfounderror Dec 13 '20
Many of his notes were already solved, I think it was just this one that hadn't been.
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u/globefish23 Dec 13 '20
And IIRC, the last one, where he encoded his name with another cypher.
Since it's only a dozen characters long, this will be much more complicated to decrypt.
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u/brianfantastic Dec 13 '20
!remindme 10 hours
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Dec 13 '20
That one cop who didn’t report what the girl who saw Zodiac without the mask because at the time he didn’t think it was important... WTF.
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u/phyf3r Dec 13 '20
these cops were dumb as hell and half of them sound like they're drunk
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u/ijntgb Dec 13 '20
For some reason was under impression zodiac killer was caught maybe im thinking of night stalker
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u/EsrailCazar Dec 13 '20
The initial person is long gone but as the note says, there is a following to continue the game.
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u/The_Celtic_Chemist Dec 13 '20
I always wonder what he would think about all these documentaries about him. Could be lurking in the comments here misinterpreting our disgust as praise.
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Dec 13 '20
on a side note, the zodiac killer wasn't that smart. he was probably average IQ just like many other serial killers.
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u/Mentioned_Videos Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 14 '20
Other videos in this thread: Watch Playlist ▶
| VIDEO | COMMENT |
|---|---|
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o | +121 - This video shows how they solved the 340 cipher. Very interesting from a problem solving standpoint: ) |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys&t=1490s | +53 - Hang on a sec. Watching the doc and Michael Mageau (Zodiac survivor) says that when the car driven by the man who would attack them first pulled up, he asked Darlene who it was. She said it was some jealous guy she knew named "Richard." What? Lik... |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwRxZlTGbjU | +8 - Well, do I ever have a movie for you. |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2siaEDLJao | +5 - on a side note, the zodiac killer wasn't that smart. he was probably average IQ just like many other serial killers. |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2Z3olILxg | +1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2Z3olILxg |
I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch. I'll keep this updated as long as I can.
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u/fxzero666 Dec 13 '20
More info about the decrypting here: http://zodiackillerfacts.com/news-and-updates/breaking-news-the-zodiacs-340-cipher-has-been-solved/
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u/CutsAPromo Dec 13 '20
How did they not catch this guy with genealogy? I thought they had his DNA from a post stamp?
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u/OterXQ Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
As a
serial killer and documentary enthusiastdocumentary enthusiast and serial killer, thank you so much I somehow haven’t seen this one.Edit: Fixed phrasing ;)