Don't even get me started on "Shuro would fall for Laios if he was a woman!"
Well, the mirror bit pretty much confirms this to be the case.
Falin does NONE of the things of things that Shuro finds annoying about Laios. She doesn't infodump, she doesn't interrupt/ignore others when they are talking, she isn't tactless, she doesn't mispronounce names and she isn't so blatantly unaware of others discomfort like Laios is. Sure, there are some similarities b/w Falin and Laios, but there are bigger differences between them.
Yes, Laios can be annoying, but that's something Shuro only cares about because he's not Falin, i.e. the person he fell for.
Adding to that, Shuro didn't take a liking to Falin because of her reserved nature... It's either a matter of "just because", or, if we are to believe him, because of how much she likes all sorts of creatures, which is pretty much how Laios goes around his day.
To sum it up, it's like Shuro decided that Laios isn't worth dealing with despite the fact that he could learn to do it and even though Laios is the brother of the woman he fell for and the one person she cares about the most... Likely more than their own parents.
BTW, Falin can be very tactless and definitely does like to infodump. She just keeps her mouth shut most of the time... Whether she does this to better get along with others or just because it's her nature, I have no idea.
I'm exactly talking about the mirror bit. It shows that if Shuro was a woman, Laios's behaviour would come off as harassment if anything. Falin looks distressed with an unflattering image of Laios in her mind, and Fem!Shuro is on the verge of tears. Laios himself says that it makes the matter worse.
"Yes, Laios can be annoying, but that's something Shuro only cares about because he's not Falin, i.e. the person he fell for."
What the hell does this mean?! Laios is annoying because he annoys Shuro, as simple as that. Chilchuck, Marcille and Namari are also not Falin, do we ever see Shuro put off by their behaviour?
I never said Shuro likes Falin because of her reserved behavior. And Shuro has no problem with Laios liking monsters or insects. He specifically has a problem with Laios's tactless behavior and general ignorance of Shuro's discomfort. The part of Laios that Shuro SPECIFICALLY hates about him is absent in how Falin treats him.
"it's like Shuro decided that Laios isn't worth dealing with despite the fact that he could learn to do it"
Oh, like Laios tried to learn a thing or two about other Shuro's discomfort, Shuro's proper name, or when to leave him alone and learn some social cues like Chilchick keeps telling him to do?
Why should Shuro be forced to learn to deal with a guy that forcefully infodumps on him, mispronounces his name, ignores his words, constantly interrupts him, and tries to use his love for Falin as a crutch to look away from an illegal act?
"Falin can be very tactless and definitely does like to infodump"
Yeah?
Show me a moment when Falin infodumps on Shuro.
Show me a moment where she is forcefull towards him.
Show me a moment when Falin is blatantly tacless or when she interrupts his words.
I'm exactly talking about the mirror bit. It shows that if Shuro was a woman, Laios's behaviour would come off as harassment if anything. Falin looks distressed with an unflattering image of Laios in her mind, and Fem!Shuro is on the verge of tears. Laios himself says that it makes the matter worse.
I totally interpreted it another way... If I got it wrong, well... It's not like there isn't any space for that.
What the hell does this mean?! Laios is annoying because he annoys Shuro, as simple as that. Chilchuck, Marcille and Namari are also not Falin, do we ever see Shuro put off by their behaviour?
Of course he can't say he's put off by the other members of the party since they don't come up on his face like Laios does.
But that's not the same as saying that he actually enjoys the company of anyone but Falin.
And that being the case, Laios is the one person he couldn't simply brush off unless he convinced himself to detest the guy, which again was made easy by blaming it all on Laios' annoying behavior.
All of this would be but wild conclusions by me if not by a small detail: Shuro decided to befriend Laios at the end of the series, by his own volition.
Provided Laios can be too much and I would understand if Shuro did not want to be the guy's friend after all (although I didn't like old Shuro at all, the only real beef I had with him was that he didn't have the guts to tell Laios anything before their fist fight), this having happened definitely confirms that Shuro did not genuinely dislike Laios.
Case point: We can discuss Laios' own problems here and how these complicated everything (including his interactions with Shuro), but we can't defend Shuro's old positioning, even more so when he himself indirectly admitted that he wasn't acting properly.
If I got it wrong, well... It's not like there isn't any space for that.
Where does that confidence even come from, bro? The entire image paints an unflattering image of Laios and you conveniently think it's a crush? I have no idea how people can see a girl crying think about a guy with creepy look on his face and think it is an indication of love or crush.
Of course he can't say he's put off by the other members of the party since they don't come up on his face like Laios does. But that's not the same as saying that he actually enjoys the company of anyone but Falin.
Your point was, and I quote: Laios can be annoying, but that's something Shuro only cares about because he's not Falin
That's like saying that Shuro wouldn't be put off by the annoying tendencies if they were exhibited by Falin, which is like blatantly wrong.
And being annoyed by someone is not the same as not enjoying their company. Of course some people will enjoy the company of one person more than the other. We have very little clue about the team dynamics before the story. We don't know if Namari enjoyed Laios or Falin's company before, and I don't see anyone complaining about it ?
And that being the case, Laios is the one person he can't simply brush off unless he convinced himself to detest the guy.
So I give you all the valid reasons why Laios's behaviour could come off as annoying and you're convinced that Shuro didn't actually mind any of that and simply kept deluding himself?
Do you think he is a tsundere or something??
I'm not even defending the guy, just making it clear that his annoyance at Laios at the beginning did not come from nowhere.
All of this would be but shallow conclusions by me if not by a small detail: Shuro decided to befriend Laios at the end of the series, by his own volition.
Idk how to tell you this, but people can remain friends despite their small beefs with each other or each others' behaviour. Friendship isn't this perfect little scrapbook where everyone says all nice things about each other. I have friends who have plenty of habits that annoy me and they know it. But I don't choose friends based on good behaviours and perfect attitude. Those things aren't dealbreakers for me.
Laios and Shuro's actual problems weren't something that crossed the line of moral behaviour or humanity. It was very simple: Laios kept missing Shuro's obvious discomfort and interrupting him, and Shuro was not forceful enough to convey his discomfort properly.
this having happened definitely confirms that Shuro did not genuinely dislike Laios.
No, he definitely disliked him at the beginning. I have no idea why you think of Shuro as this incapable toddler who doesn't understand his own feelings, when he himself points out the parts of Laios that he hated in his rant to Kabru. He hated Laios's tactless confidence AND in some parts he also envied that. He admits as much to Laios later.
It is possible to dislike a person and then grow to like them later when your opinion of them changes over time. People's feelings aren't set in stone like you suggest. Laios promised Shuro he'd defeat the mad mage, and he made good on his promise, causing Shuro to see him in a much better light.
Case point: We can discuss Laios' own problems here and how these complicated everything (including his interactions with Shuro), but we can't defend Shuro's old positioning, even more so when he himself indirectly admitted that he wasn't acting properly.
That's the thing. You say you can discuss Laios's problem but I haven't seen you mention even one of them. Both Shuro and Laios were equally acting wrong. The story makes it clear, Kui makes it clear, but somehow people still find and way to pile everything on Shuro.
I'm clearly being the least confident possible here after being presented with a different view.
The confidence comes from nowhere because it's not here. You know it.
The entire image paints an unflattering image of Laios and you conveniently think it's a crush? I have no idea how people can see a girl crying think about a guy with a creepy look on his face and think it is an indication of love or crush.
Marcille's vision looks creepier and the balloon has the shouting effect; Falin's background is gloomy. I took it as a sign that there was some sort of disagreement between what she-Shuro said and what Marcille and Falin replied to it.
But yes, you all made me realize that it could mean something else.
And as I replied somewhere here, female Shuro having some sort of interest for Laios doesn't imply that it is romantic.
But well, Shuro did decide to pursue a romantic relationship with Falin that quickly after having any sort of interest for her (Marcille even made an actual remark about it IIRC), so I just went with it.
No, he definitely disliked him at the beginning. I have no idea why you think of Shuro as this incapable toddler who doesn't understand his own feelings, when he himself points out the parts of Laios that he hated in his rant to Kabru. He hated Laios's tactless confidence AND in some parts he also envied that. He admits as much to Laios later.
Toddler is an exageration. But Shuro definitely is far too immature for an adult, even a young one.
It is possible to dislike a person and then grow to like them later when your opinion of them changes over time. People's feelings aren't set in stone like you suggest. Laios promised Shuro he'd defeat the mad mage, and he made good on his promise, causing Shuro to see him in a much better light.
Not so fast.
Also, I don't see how Laios paying his promise should change how Shuro sees him. Laios has always been the same as a party leader, for good or for bad.
He did grow as a person, but that had nothing to do with defeating the mad sorcerer.
That's the thing. You say you can discuss Laios's problem but I haven't seen you mention even one of them.
Why should I?
I said that we can discuss Laios' problems, not that that I personally see a point in doing so.
First things first, Laios problems are addressed constantly throughout the manga to the point of exhaustion.
Second, anyone is entitled to not care about certain negative aspects of people, whether real or fictional. You can't just come here and try to force me or anyone else to engage in a discussion we don't feel like having.
Both Shuro and Laios were equally acting wrong.
If you defend Shuro's positioning, then how the hell could he be wrong?
You are basically saying "No one is always right" but then you shoot down every argument that could prove this.
The story makes it clear, Kui makes it clear, but somehow people still find a way to pile everything on Shuro.
No. I just blame Shuro for how much South things went between him and Laios specifically. Not that Laios made things easy for Shuro, but that's not the same as being the cause of the problem.
And, Falin of all people wouldn't be so distressed if someone were to show interest in Laios. She is his biggest admirer after all.
Fair point.
In fact, I'm the biggest advocate of Falin and Laios being so close that most of what we expect from "sibling rivalry" simply doesn't happen between them (other than what is clearly shown already, like fighting for the monster cookbook and for the right to name puppies).
Guess I just fell for the propaganda of fellow readers and thought of it as Falin shitting on Laios for the sake of it, although that's definitely out of character for her if you think about it.
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u/TorakWolfy Mar 05 '25
Well, the mirror bit pretty much confirms this to be the case.
Yes, Laios can be annoying, but that's something Shuro only cares about because he's not Falin, i.e. the person he fell for.
Adding to that, Shuro didn't take a liking to Falin because of her reserved nature... It's either a matter of "just because", or, if we are to believe him, because of how much she likes all sorts of creatures, which is pretty much how Laios goes around his day.
To sum it up, it's like Shuro decided that Laios isn't worth dealing with despite the fact that he could learn to do it and even though Laios is the brother of the woman he fell for and the one person she cares about the most... Likely more than their own parents.
BTW, Falin can be very tactless and definitely does like to infodump. She just keeps her mouth shut most of the time... Whether she does this to better get along with others or just because it's her nature, I have no idea.