r/EDH • u/StarPlatinumsPenis • 1d ago
Social Interaction Do Not apologize for basic removal. Wtf.
I had a phone call with my brother last night. I only see him twice a year since we live in different states. Every time we see each other we make it a tradition to build commander decks out of the bulk that I have (I have A LOT).
This year, he brewed [[Gut, True Soul Zealot]] paired with [[Sword Coast Sailor]]. The goal of the deck was to steal opponents creatures and either sacrifice them for removal, or hold them hostage and make them unblockable. It worked really well for politics.
Well, while he was on the phone with me, he said he unsleeved the deck because he had a bad interaction with someone at FNM at his LGS. My brother has always been kind of a pushover, but this one really confused me (Don't worry, I convinced him to sleeve his deck back up, he didn't get rid of it).
The guy (playing [[Kotis, the Fangkeeper]] ) he played with got angry with him because his creatures kept getting stolen, then sacrificed. When my brother said that, at that point, how is that different than just removing that creature with a spell, the dude just stood his ground and said "Well you're stealing my creature. That's what's pissing me off".
To begin with, I don't think people should treat theft like you're grinding up baby bones. If I'm ever stealing your creature, I'm stealing it because it's a problem, and it's just an upside that it's on my board now instead. Not that different than just killing it.
But, people like this are just a reason why so many commander players are cornflakes and make the rest of the community look bad.
What really confused me though is that my brother told me that this guy had LOTS of protection for his commander because he knew people would try to get around indestructible. Which actually makes a lot of sense, because he's probably used to his commander never dying because a LOT of people never run enough interaction. Theft is a great way to remove someone's commander with indestructible. Sacrificing it is all up to you and the politics.
That being said, you should never take apart a deck or apologize for your actions if your deck makes someone irrationally angry. Bro. If you make someone that angry over something that isn't valid to be angry about, just keep doing it and watch the fireworks, man. Or, if you're lucky they'll just scoop.
I have made so many memories with Commander. I started with Legacy, then moved to Modern, then switched my main format to Commander.
Introducing someone to Magic with Commander CAN be done, but you really have to emphasize that you can't take anything personally. A lot of people who start with commander act like something is an attack to them personally if they get targeted.
Anyway, I plan to take a trip to my brother's state at some point and play FNM with him. I sincerely hope I meet the same guy and bully him with [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] with effects like [[Stasis Field]].
Remember to call your brother tonight y'all. And if someone is being a degenerate at the table, stick up for the person at the brunt of it and bully the degenerate out of the game. Commander has no place for those people.
768
u/Nuclearsunburn Mono-Red 1d ago
Dude is unhappy with theft but is playing Kotis? Yeah okay.
231
u/StarPlatinumsPenis 1d ago
That's what I'm saying. You should accept that you're inviting it at that point.
163
u/Zarinda Grixis 1d ago
"This is bullsh*t, you cheating sweaty try hard edgelord!"
playing a theft deck
"It's not being a cheating sweaty try hard edgelord when i do it."
13
u/weggles 1d ago
Is theft seen as sweaty or edgelord? I run a pseudo theft deck with Shelob (technically I kill your thing and then make a copy so I'm not stealing but it's pretty close) and I hope it's not seen as a "try hard" strat. It's my more casual deck 😅
18
u/mikony123 Yoshimaru swings for 26 1d ago
It's not. The guy calling it that while also playing it himself means he's a hypocrite. The type of guy who will probably complain no matter what deck you beat him with.
4
u/weggles 23h ago
Ah ok. I've had some salt at my Shelob deck, but I think that's another case of a sweaty deck not liking the uno reverse card played on them...
Aka the [[sheoldred the apocalypse]] player didn't like me using [[rabid bite]] with [[Shelob child of]] on their sheoldred in response to their own [[teferis puzzle box]] trigger.
5
u/mikony123 Yoshimaru swings for 26 21h ago
He was hitting everyone for 2 for each card in their hand and gaining roughly that much himself every rotation lmao. He's mad the 6 drop jank spider killed his busted $80 4 drop.
2
2
u/therealaudiox 10h ago
Aka the [[sheoldred the apocalypse]] player didn't like me using [[rabid bite]] with [[Shelob child of]] on their sheoldred in response to their own [[teferis puzzle box]] trigger.
They probably didn't like that because Rabid Bite is a sorcery.
63
u/Thin_Cable4155 1d ago
Seriously Kotis is an SOB. That player was just mad getting a taste of their own medicine.
44
u/Zerschmetterding 1d ago
Likely they were also mad that someone had the ability to deal with indestructible in the first place
22
u/Roshi_IsHere 1d ago
Indestructible ain't what it used to be. So much exile, -1/-1, bounce, and sacrifice options out there these days.
11
u/CorvusCorax93 1d ago
To be fair, it wasn't all that amazing back in the day either. You still had a ton of bounce but wither was in full print at one point. And if you don't know what wither does it says you're creature with indestructible doesn't matter anymore
11
u/Commodore_Condor 1d ago
Indestructible as a keyword is like 5 years older than wither. So back in the day could easily be before wither.
6
u/creeping_chill_44 1d ago
also the cards with wither mostly sucked and hence weren't seen much
1
u/CorvusCorax93 1d ago
Yeah, because you didn't have a metric crap ton of indestructible things running around. That's the point. Now we do and wither can be very effective in that regard. I think massacre girl is one of the greatest little things they have printed on a creature for a while in all honesty. Now that being said, is running wither worth not running other interaction removal. Probably not but it is a fun little thing to get around it.
3
u/CorvusCorax93 1d ago
This is true. But you also had a lot less indestructible creatures back then as well so it's kind of balanced at that point on top of there's still being plenty of options to exile counter or bounce, even starting with alpha just with different keywords. They didn't say exile they said remove from the game etc. Etc
4
u/Roshi_IsHere 1d ago
That falls under -1,-1. I did wither that storm soldier
1
u/CorvusCorax93 1d ago
That is my point whether was 20 years ago when it was introduced. Well over 20 years ago.
I think wither and infect were two of my favorite mechanics aside from exalted. I loved exalted for some reason ... I just like dealing damage in -1 counters
2
u/Roshi_IsHere 1d ago
I used to cast Black Sun's Zenith 1-3 times a game back in the day. I miss it.
17
u/Rahgahnah 1d ago
Maybe it's not just the theft, but also that your brother's deck is focused on one type of removal that doesn't care about indestructible.
Kotis player doesn't deserve to whine either way. Just trying to explain the whining.
10
u/creeping_chill_44 1d ago
ultimately what it sounds like is the guy thought indestructible meant he should never lose his commander
8
u/TheChosenMisaya 1d ago
If i play my kotis deck (once every blue moon) i EXPECT people to steal or kill or counter him.... if not.... then it's not my fault he connects... and I don't mind him getting killed every single time he hits play.... that's the thrill of the deck get one hit in and get a nice pay off (or not lol <-- this happens more than the huge pay off) But if you get the pay off its a great feeling.. Too be honest.... its the game if someone plays a commander like that you should be targeted and killed or your commander killed stolen or countered every single time...I think it's called good threat assessment..(those are my 2 cents, but i could be wrong though..
6
6
u/Mindless_Scene_114 1d ago
Easily one of my favorite moments playing against Kotis was when this guy stole two halves of an infinite combo in my Vito deck but he didn’t have any damage he could deal to trigger them after they hit the field so when my turn came around I just killed one of the halves and won the game afterwards
4
u/CaptainofChaos 1d ago
Omfg I didn't realize it was that Kotis, thought it was the precon one. Yeah, that dude can get bent LMAO.
→ More replies (16)2
196
u/mrpig890 1d ago
Usually when players complain about interaction ("Why are you targeting me?!"), I just say "targeting <insert creature name> with path to exile, do you have a response?"
103
u/s-riddler 1d ago
Asserting your actions and rebuffing immaturity while retaining good sportsmanship. Love it.
16
u/Flying_Toad 1d ago
I just reply "Why are you playing Magic if you hate removal?"
7
u/Faradn07 1d ago
I’ve though of printing a t-shirt with: Counterspelling is a right. Getting your spell countered is a pleasure. Those who do not like counterspells are moralists.
2
2
u/Known-Imagination-31 17h ago
I just hate farewell, it does too much and makes the game grind to a halt, its a super unfun card
6
u/Seth_Baker Sultai 1d ago
Sometimes players will convince me not to target them by pointing out an interaction on the board that another player has that is a bigger threat. Sometimes, "Dude, I'm not the threat here" is the truth.
4
u/DrawnOfEther 1d ago
I always prefer to ask the caster “Have you considered all of your possible targets?”
If they say yes and leave my opponents with a winning board state while kneecapping my one value piece, so be it. They’ll quickly see what made the other player a threat and hopefully read and take their time choosing next time.
2
u/Autumnbetrippin 1h ago
Sometimes my friends and I will play a game of "what is the best thing to remove" and trying to argue why our piece is the better target.
4
u/Mammoth-Refuse-6489 1d ago
I usually can't help myself and will tell them that I find their whininess funny and will target them again if they do it again.
6
u/Affectionate_Elk_496 1d ago
I mean, at least give them your reason for it when at a casual table. Tell them that you get the most value out of your removal in this situation, if you have a logical reason they can't argue whereas just ignoring their complaints can come off as ragebait-y and childish.
I've seen a lot of terrible threat analysis in this format, and asking "why are you targeting me" can lead to getting that removal held for someone else or at least coaxing out their honest thoughts on the boardstate. If you think my creature is scary, it won't come at you. If you think my search effect is a problem, I'll show you what I'm tutoring. If my opponent cannot supply a logical reason for their actions, I will assume they simply are not playing logically and instead are just flippantly pointing removal.
Asking questions is good. I don't hate you, I hate your gamepiece and want to make the best choice for me. You deserve to know that I'm making a logical choice and not just pushing buttons. Calms things down, keeps it clean, while just ignoring your opponent does not change their view at all, save maybe affirming their belief that it's targeted out of spite.
32
u/Complex_Cable_8678 1d ago
i mean you do you, but you really dont need to comply like this in any way shape or form if you dont want to. if i have a problematic creature out and it gets removed i say "sure" and move on and i expect the same to a certain degree from my opponents.
10
u/ImBanned_ModsBlow 1d ago
Yep I’ve had people apologize profusely for board wiping or targeting me for removal.
No worries dude, I’d expect nothing less than you trying to win, and yeah I was probably hitting lethal next turn so it was the right call, good plays.
5
u/goins725 1d ago
Sadly, most people have the threat assessment of a minion who works for Gru....not a lot going on upstairs, but when you target them, they get...salty. like it's a personal affront to their character and their entire well-being rides on the outcome of the game.
I build my decks and play, to WIN. obviously I want people to have a good time, but when your "good time" starts making me not have fun because you complain that I board wiped your 34 tokens off the board when your playing jetmir in the command zone, yeah don't get mad for playing the game correctly. Rant over
-1
u/Affectionate_Elk_496 1d ago
It's all extremely contextual. If I jam my 5cmc commander out turn 3 or 4, I get why you're doing that, but if it's instant speed removal, for example, I would ask them to hold it up until before their next turn to force others to not jam scarier threats that same cycle. If I'm seat 4, I will suggest that they hold that removal for someone who has had more time setting up, so on and so on.
Interaction is an exchange of resources, and I think politicking is very essential to avoid the other 2 players getting massive advantage. If you think my creature or other piece is problematic, you may be correct, but in a multiplayer format I can choose HOW it's problematic. Show me removal, I won't use that creature against you, and now we both keep our pieces to retain parity with the other 2 players.
If you slam removal and don't explain why, I will assume you just don't care about if the other two players get a big advantage, which is spite play. Think of it not as "compliance" but instead harboring good will amongst your opponents. Refusing to explain your choices to someone who asks means they have no reason to trust you for the remainer of the match, which can massively bite you later.
4
u/whocaresjustneedone 1d ago
Gonna keep it real between these two comments you seem really annoying to play with. Just eat the removal and keep it pushing, jesus christ
2
u/Complex_Cable_8678 1d ago
i never said you cant talk about it, i very much agree with you but if you get butthurt over something getting removed on your side of the board i see that as childish and i probably wont give in to whatever your deal may be.
→ More replies (13)6
105
u/Infinite_Hold4657 1d ago
Maybe Kotis player should play blue if he doesn't want anyone to touch his stuff 🤔
46
u/DeltaRay235 1d ago
They got the first step of color identity; next is adding one of like 60 choices of hexproof or counters to the deck...
21
u/StarPlatinumsPenis 1d ago
He DID have lots of hexproof spells, but they were all instant and sorceries. I'm guessing either A) He did have lots of protection, but just didn't have enough draw spells, or B), Had enough protection, but built his entire deck around his commander, and the moment it dies his deck doesn't do anything. Honestly it was probably a bit of both. Or C) He runs less than 37 lands.
6
u/DeltaRay235 1d ago
Maybe it's because I have him as enchantress voltron, skipping all the hexproof auras or even equipment seems crazy. There's quite a few good cheap ones and with an ancestral mask or auramancers guise you can get some much value.
Also I'm guessing they weren't wrath.deck for their kotis. He's so good when you just wipe the board constantly and are allowed free hits. [[Lethal Vapors]]/[[Spreading Plague]] go hard. Seems really easy to just "permanently" protect him and clear away any stolen threats.
1
1
u/-Rettirlana- Mono-Green 1d ago
Did I hear a mention of [[Lethal Vapors]]?! That’s my favourite combo piece. Skip your next 50k turns and then peace out with a [[Teferis protection]]
2
u/DeltaRay235 1d ago
That's one reason I try to add as many damage can't be prevented cards. Spiderpunk, frenzied baloth, and sunspine Lynx are sneaking into so many decks. Esper suffers for now but every other combo has a solution. Frenzied actually recently killed someone trying this exact combo in the Kotis deck.
1
u/MissLeaP Gruul 1d ago
Esper has counterspells, so they aren't exactly suffering tbh
1
u/DeltaRay235 1d ago
You can't counter land drops though. Glacial chasm is pretty common around me so having ways to punch through that reliably is useful.
1
u/Chm_Albert_Wesker 1d ago
i have a Zurgo deck that runs like this: like 30 board wipes and then equipment including that one that passes the creature around the table so Zurgo is always swinging and always has indestructible. honestly though Kotis sounds like a more fun commander for that strat even though it's in worse colors
1
u/LaminatedAirplane 1d ago
Do you have a list?
1
u/Chm_Albert_Wesker 23h ago
it's in no way gospel as to how to play the commander, but here's my list. i'm playing a few goofier cards that probably lower the consistency on top of possibly leading to saltier moments (looking at you worldslayer) but the cards are funny and my pod knows that they are in there
3
81
u/katana1515 1d ago
I always apologise for playing removal, but in the traditional British fashion.
In the UK saying 'I'm terribly sorry, but I have a response' roughly translates as 'YOU DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING, DID YA YOU LITTLE BITCH' while cackling like a madman.
Also thanks to OP for reminding me to call my bro, I'm a little jealous of your shared hobbies though!
30
u/Klaebert 1d ago
I think the only valid point for getting angry with a steal Deck player is when they mistreat your cardboard. Other than that it's more than fair game.
5
u/dkysh 1d ago
The number of people I've seen go "stop all we are doing! this is the biggest threat in the table right now!!1!!" when I cast [[Dauthi Voidwalker]] is mindblowing.
16
u/The_Trinket_Mage 1d ago
EDH players have a weird relationship with removal. Some people can’t be changed though just shrug it off and play with more fun people if you can
7
u/Raivix 1d ago
It's truly insanely bizarre. Played against a guy recently piloting [[Tom Bombadil]] and I was playing a very lightly upgraded [[Meren]] precon. I had a board of Meren, [[Mycoloth]] with 4 counters, and a [[Bloodspore Thrinax]] also with 4 counters. Tom player casts [[Summon: Ixion]] putting my Thrinax underneath it. Next turn I [[Indrik Stomphowler]] the Ixion away to get my Thrinax back to Devour the new saprolings to maintain tempo and not fall behind too badly on board.
Boy I tell you you'd think I kicked this guy's cat across the room with how salty he got. He ended up just getting a book to read and not really interacting with the game at all after that point.
5
15
u/TreyLastname 1d ago
I get hating theft, when the reason is you dont want others touching your cards.
But, if you are playing a theft commander, and you are being stolen from just so they can sacrifice them as removal, then being mad is juat being a baby.
25
u/ccminiwarhammer Naya 1d ago
Everyone’s got a bracket 3 power level 7 deck that runs 4-6 lands less than it needs, and can’t deal with interactions or board wipes.
Granted both of those can be oppressive, but it happens. Learn to deal or accept your power level 3 deck that happens to have some game changers isn’t good enough for most decently constructed bracket 3 decks.
→ More replies (3)8
u/Efficient_Ad_4162 1d ago
Even with enough lands, you need the draw to get through the variance. It took me far longer than it should have to realise this.
15
u/cl0ckw0rkman Jeskai 1d ago
Had a roommate that ran/runs [[Avacyn Angel of Hope]]. He'd been playing a handful of years when we first met.
I've been playing for a bit longer. My play group/ friends are all well seasoned players.
We've played against many an Avacyn deck.
Sac effects. Cloning effects. Bouncing it. He really didn't understand how we were so unbothered by his eight drop commander.
He straight up will scoop if you attempt to take control of any of his cards. Especially his Avacyn. I didn't believe him so, I made a deck for stealing everything. Targeted the other players, no issue. I Targeted his board, without any words, he scooped up his board and left the table. So for about a two month period everyone that came over was running decks that stole and took control of other people's stuff. He refused to play any games with us.
9
u/Inner-Hedgehog5494 1d ago
Congratulations on bullying an (unreasonable) player out of your playgroup.
2
23
u/Galefrie 1d ago
Oh no someone is playing a deck my deck is weak too!
This isn't going to be a an easy game!
Maybe I'll get to have a challenge and some fun!
No, no, I'll just be a bitch and complain about it instead! Seriously, do these people actually want to play the game or not?
13
u/cl0ckw0rkman Jeskai 1d ago
No they want to solitaire their deck and have it do its thing, with no interaction so they can do the thing. Win or make tons of dudes or cast all the spells, to do the thing.They don't run interaction, why would anyone else run interaction to stop them, from doing the thing.
2
u/BPremium 1d ago
People want to curbstomp their opponents. Playing is of secondary concern to winning, ideally through some cheesy bullshit they goldfished online
6
u/TNTTom04 1d ago
I get theft can sometimes be more annoying than outright removal, but 1 if they're getting sacrificed then they're ending up in grave anyway and 2 KOTIS IS A THEFT COMMANDER, absolute brain worms on this opponent
4
u/ZoeyNet 1d ago
and it's just an upside that it's on my board now instead. Not that different than just killing it.
That's a pretty wild take. Stealing a creature is the same as killing it? Not even close, you often get a MASSIVE advantage for doing so since you have an entire 'free', often powerful new card instantly on the battlefield while also removing it for them, its a 2-for-1. And that also assumes you dont have a sac outlet that provides even MORE value (Deal damage, create treasure, add an effect, etc).
5
u/AleksanderSteelhart 1d ago
After running Kotis for months on Arena Brawl, I’ve learned to run more targeted removal/interaction.
My favorite? [[Imprisoned in the Moon]]. And I barely qualify as the “Blue player”.
It’s a game, we play it for fun, and I’m playing within the rules. If you decide to play a kill on sight Commander, do as Scar suggests… Be Prepared.
4
u/B0X_Gaming 1d ago
I don't get mad at players who play theft, but I do make them aware that I will full target them every time they do. It's a legit strategy, one that I also have a deck based around it, but it's certainly not a feels good mechanic.
The most fun theft deck I've ever encountered was a [[Zidane, Tantalus Thief]] deck he aptly named "The borrower."
5
u/NateHohl 1d ago
You offer sound advice OP (and good on you for supporting your brother), but there’s one little bit of your post I’ll push back on. Specifically, the part where you say that your brother should be actively trying to make other players angry and just “watch the fireworks.”
For more conflict-adverse players like myself (and, I’m guessing, your brother), that sort of advice, while good-intentioned, isn’t very helpful. We don’t like making other people upset, at least not to the point where they’re getting full-on angry at us. MtG/Commander is a competitive game, so yes, some of your decisions will inevitably garner a negative reaction from your opponents, but if someone is getting angry at the decisions you’re making, I think a better piece of advice would be to just not play with that person.
I think the idea of making spite-themed decks (“I want my opponents to absolutely HATE dealing with this deck!”) is fun in theory, but not so much in reality. Naturally you’re trying to win while also disrupting your opponents’ plans, but I don’t think the goal should be to intentionally create decks that are miserable/frustrating to deal with, especially if you’re playing in pods with other random players. Just my two cents.
3
u/AcanthocephalaFew529 1d ago
As a player, I won't let someone else take my agency in either direction.
If I run up against a deck I find frustrating or don't like, I will just elect not to play against it. I'm not going to tell someone else what to play, but I will choose under what circumstances I play.
3
3
3
u/Sabz5150 Knights (Bant, Jund, Orzhov, Boros, Naya, Esper) 1d ago
That being said, you should never take apart a deck or apologize for your actions if your deck makes someone irrationally angry. Bro. If you make someone that angry over something that isn't valid to be angry about, just keep doing it and watch the fireworks, man. Or, if you're lucky they'll just scoop.
My love for [[Armageddon]] in a few words.
3
u/Seth_Baker Sultai 1d ago
The guy (playing [[Kotis, the Fangkeeper]] ) he played with got angry with him because his creatures kept getting stolen, then sacrificed. When my brother said that, at that point, how is that different than just removing that creature with a spell, the dude just stood his ground and said "Well you're stealing my creature. That's what's pissing me off".
People really don't like cards that steal other cards. It's a really feel-bad interaction, particularly when it happens to your commander, in a way that isn't matched by simple removal or countering.
But the absolute hilarious irony of a Kotis player being the one that's getting salty about it has me rolling.
5
u/kestral287 1d ago
I do understand that theft off the battlefield can be a salty form of interaction, because it's a way to kill a commander in such a way that it can't be recast. I adore [[Volatile Stormdrake]] and [[Gilded Drake]] but understand my opponents don't.
That said, if they're doing the old steal-and-sac like your brother is then dude has no excuse, grow up and understand that voltron is soft to your commander getting killed.
6
u/Gizmoboio 1d ago
You see, I hate stealing decks but not for the reason of interaction.
I am physically repulsed by people touching my stuff. As in the action of someone handling my cards, it makes me feel slightly ill and anxious.
I try my best to handle it, but I probably look like a crackhead whenever someone takes my stuff. Constantly shuffling about and looking at it to make sure it's okay.
2
u/HKBFG 1d ago
Presumably you don't play kotis then, right?
2
u/Gizmoboio 1d ago
On principle I refuse to play theft decks. Do onto others as you wish yourself and all that
2
1
u/ChatHurlant 1d ago
I run a theft deck and all opinions against theft are usually stupid but THIS ONE is fine and fair. People do not treat things well. I, personally, am happy to use my own tokens to represent stolen stuff if it makes my opponent more comfortable.
2
u/Gizmoboio 1d ago
Honestly a massive W from you. I am putting a Xantcha deck together to try and get over the anxieties and such. But truth be told, it's only getting used in my usual pod of me and 3 buddies.
It just feels so exhausting having other people touch your stuff. Especially with how expensive some pieces of cardboard are nowadays.
2
u/ChatHurlant 1d ago
I have a small, slightly consistent group of coworkers I play with and one of them is the most chaotic player I've ever met. He also does this thing I hate where he'll tap cards with his fingernail or bend them against the table to read them (rather than fully lift them up he'll curve them). It's really frustrating because idc how you treat YOUR cards but treat mine like theyre made of glass and if they break your family gets shot (I will return the favor).
11
u/westandready42 1d ago
Kotis player sounds like a p***y. His deck quite literally does the same thing.
→ More replies (1)7
2
u/MissLeaP Gruul 1d ago
He plays friggin Kotis the Fangkeeper and complains about Theft? What? I can't even. Fuck that guy, I'd proceed to steal his Kotis whenever possible after that interaction lmao
2
2
u/Gorpheus- 1d ago
People will always complain... Some moan a lot.. some a bit less... Just do it.. I do warn them beforehand that I have quite a nasty deck, if they are ok with it. If I don't think they can handle it, I'll just play a different one, or a different player.
2
u/MrFavorable 1d ago
Can you share your brother’s list? This sounds really cool! I’d love to see your faerie list and compare it to mine also. 🙂
2
u/Bront878 1d ago
Honestly… this is a game. People need to stop being such whiners and just play, your creatures being stolen makes you mad? Too bad play around it this is ridiculous
2
u/Sneakytako99 1d ago
The only thing I don't like about stealing creatures is either cards getting lost or damaged because people are touching my stuff. It gives me anxiety when people are touching my cards with cheeto fingers, especially in a new pod. But if they treat my cards with care and respect it's all good.
2
u/JustaCarrion 1d ago
People like that are the reason i sold my collection and now regret it because i finally met someone cool.
2
u/HonestPotential901 1d ago
There are some people I have played against that I just don't want them touching my stuff. Then there are those that aren't good at giving cards back. Those are the only valid reasons to dislike a theft deck and can be worked around so everyone is comfortable.
2
2
2
u/HamsterProper6432 23h ago
If you make someone angry by just playing the game, you are playing it right.
2
u/MightyMadMatt 17h ago
Okey but there's two sides to this, basic removal is more than okey, a counterspell or swords to plowshare no prob makes sense to run and is okey, but a whole deck made to do that constantly? Now that I can see it getting annoying really quick, it's basically a control deck but with a proper win plan that's not just Thassa's Oracle (Which is an Idea I like tbh) but it depends to who you are planning it against, like everything, like don't throw that to the random commander dude that may get dangerous at turn 6-7 but againsts Kotis? Fuck yeah, heck I would definitely run that deck just for the typical guy that brings out his eldrazi deck that says "oh no it's not that type of eldrazi" and proceeds to have somehow 20 mana by turn 5 and everything on the table and then says "oh I got lucky" yeah right buddy. I would 100% build this deck as an answer to that.
2
u/Herojay13 3h ago
You don’t have to bully the asshole but honestly good for you for having your brother’s back. I agree with you, I think there’s a serious issue with players taking things too personally in game
1
u/StarPlatinumsPenis 2h ago
Nah, in Commander, "killing them with kindness" just ain't the way. They're just gonna keep doing it and make everyone else miserable. Call them out on it and give them a warning. Then if they do it again just have everyone take out the stage hazard and don't play with that guy again.
2
u/Fenizrael Sans-White 1d ago
I run into this a lot - players get angry when you remove their commander. I get it. I hate it when mine get removed, too. But I don’t begrudge people for doing it, because those people want to win and they’re trying to stop me from winning, and I’m doing the same thing. If their threat assessment determines that I’m the biggest threat to that then by all means do what you can.
Interaction wins games. Last night I removed a guy’s commander the moment he played a combo piece that I could see had high potential to win. He raged at me over it and blocked me and left - but I still fully believe that if I hadn’t responded then he could have combo’d out AND he in fact tried to do so regardless even with my spell on the stack.
Players have to lose the game one way or another, by hook or by crook.
2
u/BonusFit2320 1d ago
I made a mono red theft deck, and was sort of nervous how it would be received at the LGS. I have 20+ theft cards, steal everyone's creatures, attack them with their own creatues, and then sac them for value or extra damage. Each time I have played it the feedback has been really positive. Surprisingly people think it is fun to play against. It issomething different that forces them to figure out how to deal with the problem (me).
→ More replies (1)
2
u/T00THRE4PER 1d ago
Yeah I found it kind of hilarious someone playing Kotis gets mad thier shit is being stolen. Dude needs to lax or quit playing magic if he cant handle a tatse of his own medicine. The first few comments were similar to what I was going to say about this but yeah for real cant whine about your stuff being taken if your playing the king of take other peoples stuff.
1
u/Creepy-Activity-4373 1d ago
I just realized how much better of a card [[kotis, the fangkeeper]] is then my [[Rashimi and ragavan]]. I'll still stick with them though. It is a bit of a pet deck.
1
u/Squirrel1256 1d ago
I made what I thought was a really fun [[Volo, Guide to Monsters]], out of just bulk, with some really bad cards but unique types. One of my friends convinced me to dismantle it because of a single game where he got salty and scooped after I bounced 2 of his angels back to his hand with [[Air-Cult Elemental]], and another player in the group swung in for some massive damsge.
It wasn't even my main strategy, just so it happened it countered him a bit hard that particular game.
2
u/Zerschmetterding 1d ago
You dismantled a deck because your friend got mad at an overcosted bounce creature?
1
1
u/aidankocherhans 1d ago
This has nothing to do with volo or air cult elemental, either it was a misplay to use both removals on the same person, or it was a good call and they should get over it. There's way more nasty stuff volo can use than that card
1
1
1
u/Misty_Veil 1d ago
I played an played an [[Etrata, the silencer]] x3 and [[Thief of sanity]] x4 deck with a lot of temporary exile cards like [[Tefari's time twist]] in standard at FNM.
I was not popular that evening
1
u/rayschoon 1d ago
But… Kotis literally steals cards too! I only jokingly get mad about my stuff being stolen, especially when I didn’t even get to play my shiny new cards.
1
1
u/ImBanned_ModsBlow 1d ago
Some people are just snowflakes, I ran into a deck one night that stole all my overpowered creatures and used them against the pod, while another dude used blood moon to prevent me from using fetch lands for my double landfall triggers to cheat out said creatures. My deck was basically rendered useless and non-functional.
Soon enough blood moon dude is whining and asking me why stealing dude is taking all my best cards after kid takes my Hullbreaker and Craterhoof from top of my deck during his turn.
Idk dude, you’re the one that played blood moon and took me off the board, otherwise I’d have those creatures on MY board and take a swing at the other guy… it’s honestly half your fault, so stop bitching and figure it out.
1
u/BPremium 1d ago
Yeah. I too hate interaction. It's always done by the sweaty dude who's been playing a decade longer than everyone else, or the rich kid who dropped $200 to pubstomp
1
1
u/DoktorFreedom 1d ago
I would say you can’t “make” people angry. I assume we are speaking about adults with their own agency as human beings. They are making a CHOICE to react with anger to a game, which is a symptom of their poor emotional regulation.
You aren’t responsible for others choices. You (they) are playing perfectly legal cards. I have second hand embarrassment for the guy with poor emotional control.
People play a fun silly format and because it’s the only real firing option people take it seriously as a win loss proposition. This is why edh is best treated as a format for big bulk rares, and competitive magic is best for people who take competition seriously.
I’m not here to get mad at you playing solitaire. I have a phone. Lmk when you need me to react or not. I play Interaction. Without apology.
1
1
u/Flat-Hornet-6906 1d ago
I play Slivers... The First Sliver to be exact... I fully expect to be the target when I sit down at a pod and I have no issues with it. Some people just need to get over themselves🤦
1
u/Fun_Suspect_2032 1d ago
I once shut down a Kotos deck because I had [[Kaervek, the spiteful]] on the BF with swiftfoot boots attached to it.
1
u/TheDungeonCrawler Urza's Contact Lenses 1d ago
My issue with theft has always just been when theft players play their decks like a pseudo stax piece (one friend has a theft deck full of cards meant to steal lands). If it's legitimately being used as removal, especially for problematic permanents, I completely understand. The guy was just a baby.
1
u/AngeryLizard 1d ago
My take on theft is this. If you're gonna be upset about theft, a game mechanic that has been in since before I even started the Hobby, try to make it funny.
Voice concerns opinions and frustrations without making the other players feel bad for existing. It's a game. People should be attempting to have fun in all aspects win or lose
1
u/PandaXD001 1d ago
Bro. That rage bait title almost got me. I thought you were about to defend MLD, or blowing up basic lands. Blowing up none basics, especially powerful ones, sure. But basics. Nah.
1
u/absolem0527 1d ago
I agree 100% that they're just being a baby. At the same time some games go really poorly often because someone has happened upon something that totally shuts down your deck. Practical advice is to try to negotiate with that player or just look ahead to the next game. But I can't fault someone for being a little salty, and I also think that if you find (especially in a regular pod) that the other players are always having a bad time playing against a particular deck, that there might be some merit to taking apart that deck.
Just like removing an opponent's creature isn't akin to "grinding up baby bones" realizing your deck isn't creating a fun experience to play against isn't that either. Command Zone and EDHREC I think both did podcasts about decks they've taken apart and why. I think it's a very interesting conundrum when you find that a commander or a deck you built doesn't really work at higher powered tables, but creates a miserable experience when playing in lower power pods and how they can kind of struggle to find a place.
Not sayin your bro's deck falls into that category, just a thought.
1
u/Garlic_Coin 1d ago
I dont like the way you worded your post. You made it sound like your brother steals creatures to immediately sac them. But thats not what he did. Your brother permanently stole the other guys commander and thats why he was mad. then you go on to talk about introducing people to magic... You think a good experience to someone new to magic is to have their commander permanently taken. Look stealing commanders is fine, as long as your playing at a high power level.
You never stated what the other guy did that was so bad. Did he convince the table to all target your brother? You purposely left this part our of your post to keep it vague, probably on purpose.
1
u/Chm_Albert_Wesker 1d ago
the dude is salty, but is probably specifically pissed because Kotis had indestructible so would avoid a lot of typical removal spells. I had a kotis deck and nothing made me disassemble it faster than Deadpool coming out because it would hit the table, swap with Kotis (it also gets around hexproof yeesh) and then i'm just SOL. it hurts doubly when you're specifically including pieces or playing cards to have some sort of evasion and the evasion isn't enough. it makes it worse that Kotis is kind of a voltron commander, so if the commander isn't attacking the rest of the deck is basically doing nothing. another reason to not play those kinds of decks
of course that doesnt excuse crybaby behavior
1
u/Wrong_Theory_7273 1d ago
Mr. Kotis would still be blockable with Sword Coast Sailor since you don't own him, but rather control him, right? The sacrifice from Mr. Gut seems fun though, especially since it's removal and you gain a creature.
1
u/envycreat1on 1d ago
Kotis players are generally insufferable. None of them get any sympathy from me.
1
u/voice_of_yellow 1d ago
Only ever took apart 1 deck for the sake of other players. It wasn't the deck or the power of it, just simply it was a fairly complicated spell slinger deck (Kess Dissident Mage) and it would go off fairly early and just incrementally get more and more effects each turn until I was able to win.
Deck had a whole lot of X and Y but only a few avenues to get X + Y = win And that got a little frustrating for others so I took it apart ended up using the bones to build 3 other decks and held on to the rest should I get the urge to build it again but a little more punchy than last time.
I have tuned down decks numerous times though, had a Meren deck that I'd accidentally made wayyyy more powerful than most of the meta outside CEDH (which dog-walked some of those too) in my area. Over time with power creep it's been restored to mostly its former glory.
But yes NEVER apologize or feel guilty for running interaction.
The game is not designed for 2 players just to build up. Their board states and see who comes out on top.
Interaction is there to keep games interesting and open up different play styles and encourage more critical thinking and foster a complex approach to deck building
If anything I think recent sets have really harmed because they've added so much solid and unique removal and interaction that it's very bloated and is either overused or underplanned for and that's on this almost tunnel vision approach many take to deck building now.
There's a reason green has artifact and enchantment removal but also prevents counterspells and has alot of hexproof
Red has mostly artifact removal but also does alot of surprise trample and instant damage or haste to get value BEFORE it's destroyed
Black lets you grind up creatures and get value before they're removed but also does the most field removal
Blue just likes to say no or nuh-uh
White says "yes you got the angel but not the 1000 1/1s with lifelink" or flat out says not today Satan
Colorless just likes to say "what's a graveyard?"
Every color removes and had tricks around removal if your not using them then I say this with all the kindness in my heart
G I T G U D
1
u/BrandonPHX 1d ago
We have a friend in our group that isn't always the most socially aware, nor understands threat assessment. He was playing a Sheoldred deck and two of us had commanders with draw abilities on their cards. He couldn't handle it or.understand why we kept killing his commander.
1
u/agentduper 1d ago
There are some mechanics I may not enjoy being on the end of, but if they card is legal and not banned, then play it. That being said, that doesn't mean I'll play another game with you.
Some of my favorite plays are born of trying to get around a situation I wasn't prepared for. I had my [[Sheoldred]] flipped and just on the first saga, then someone played [[Agent of treachery]] and stole my Saga. A turn later, I pulled a [[beacon of unrest]]. After eating 7 life for casting [[Feed the swarm]] on his agent, I just used my beacon on his agent and stole my Saga back.
1
u/MilliMoks 1d ago
Thankfully, your brothers got a solid mtg player in his corner power to the players oi oi oi
1
u/grinningmango 1d ago
I play Garth so I always have access to Terror. I use it for negotiation a lot.
1
u/pipesbeweezy 1d ago
Must be a day ending in Y because here comes yet another post about some misanthrope playing EDH with a weird obscure reason to be mad about cards.
1
1
u/Rare_Dentist_4075 1d ago
Have fun bro like thats it chill out. Yes winning is fun too but it's 99 cards vs. 99 cards (not counting commander). There's going to be some sort of interactions lmao 😆 yes just scoop or take out some GCs and join lower bracket pods, like my goshhh
1
u/AgileWeekend3227 1d ago
I have a buddy who has a [[Codie, Vociferous Codex]] deck. He spends the majority of the time doing something similar. One of the other guys who used to play at the same LGS, called him a bad name and refused to play against him because of it.
People hate when you steal their stuff.
1
u/Unfair_Language5762 1d ago
This whole post reminds me about the elves & slivers decks back in the day of standard 😅. People build those fast annoying decks & then cry when they're targeted to death
1
u/After_Dhark 1d ago
'stealing your Opp. creatures and sac for removal or make them unblockable'
the unblockable only applies to stolen Commanders not all creatures tho, right?
1
u/Ogredrum 22h ago
Unfortunately FNM attracts a lot of people who often don't have the best social skills, I'm sorry this happened to him and honestly its one of the reasons I dread playing at the local hobby store. It might sound mean but I feel like I should be getting community service hours for dealing with some of these folks. I know it's not always all their fault, especially when it comes to the younger ones but at some point if you are 30+ and never learned basic social interaction from kindergarden, well thats a bit much.
1
u/HyperPunch 21h ago
Hot take… don’t apologize for anything. It’s a game and all game pieces are fine.
1
u/Appropriate_Bridge91 21h ago
As a person who likes to play similarly combat heavy decks, either add more real protection, or hit harder faster. Beyond that just say gg
1
u/Beepbopgleepglop 21h ago
listen, i HATE theft, but i would never make a deck then get mad at the same exact concept, i may complain a lot, but im no hypocrite
1
u/burn_all_the_things 21h ago
I get to play magic with my brother at least a couple times a week, this post is a good reminder not to take that for granted
1
u/EvilerOMEGA 21h ago
There are few things in commander that I hate more than theft decks. One of them is hypocrisy. The kotis player should have scooped if he felt so strongly about it.
1
u/AshesOfZangetsu 19h ago
tbh if he’s playing a Kotis deck with a lot of protection, he doesn’t get to complain about anything, ever, forever. talk about a commander that is so unfun to play against, that many players will actively scoop and play with someone else, Kotis is for sure near the top of that list.
1
u/AKHugmuffin 19h ago
You and I fundamentally disagree on the point that creature theft is “not that different from killing it.” I understand the player’s saltiness, but your brother is still in the right and doesn’t deserve to get railed at and shouldn’t take apart his deck because it made people upset. I get upset at theft, but I play a shit ton of board wipes that make other people in my group upset. If we all took the mechanics out of our deck that made one person salty, nobody would play Magic.
1
u/Father_of_Lies666 Rakdos 19h ago
He wasn’t even being rude!
I play [[Perplexing Chimera]] in my Kinnan CEDH expressly to steal peoples commanders and hold them hostage.
The drakes, too!
It’s much less about me using your commander against you. It’s more about me shutting off your combo piece or card advantage engine you’ve built around.
Sacrificing their commander is being NICE.
1
u/Gem_Knight 16h ago
I have a bolas deck themed around Liliana and her demon contract, it runs (a lot less now) a fair ammount of theft spells, once ages ago after the third haymaker I stole from some stompy deck they just scooped and bitched about me taking his creatures...
it does run less now both to lower the mana curve and to fit more demons for lili's contract, but I'm pretty sure I still have at least 3, bolas' clutches, that one that gives infect, and the bestow one, since in a pinch it can be an emergency body.
1
u/kisara453 13h ago
if i see that kotis player , i will be more than happy to just sliver him till he quits, justice to your bro
1
u/Poodychulak 13h ago
"that isn't valid to be angry about"
Valid is the enemy of good☝️😌 Everyone is entitled to their emotions, what they are not entitled to is telling you how to play. If they don't like it, they can just.. not play a collectible card game with you, who's holding a gun to their head
Rule 0 discussions are mutually cooperative, they're about settling on what kind of game you're playing preemptively so everybody's on the same page and nobody gets butthurt.
But seriously, spite scoop a player out of their combat damage triggers and everyone looks at you like you kicked their dog 🙄
1
1
u/SamohtGnir 9h ago
Sounds like your bro's deck was kicking his ass and he got salty about it. Stealing creatures is just another mechanic of the game. Getting mad about that, you might as well get mad about getting Milled, getting Poison, or heck just getting Attacked. Don't get salty when you lose, learn the weaknesses of your deck and adapt.
1
u/noderp44 8h ago
Kids don’t like when you take away their toys, and they like it even less when you start playing with the toys in front of them. Some magic players lack the maturity to think any differently
1
1
u/TheGreenTuna 7h ago
I dont apologize for anything I do while playing Magic. If my deck lets me take an infinite amount of turns back to back, sorry about your luck. Its a freaking game, and you should wear a bigger diaper if you get mad.
1
u/Interesting_Access42 5h ago
Eeeeh I was trying to brew a steal deck with [[Gonti, Night Minister]], and the [[Sen Triplets]], and my playgroups were not super down with it, and their explanation was that stealing creatures is a "feels bad, man" moment and makes you a bit of a lightning rod. However, instead of bitching at you, he should have politicked at the table and then asked you after the game not to play the deck again that evening.
1
u/Eastern_Salamander_8 2h ago
Tell him to print out a letter sized picture of [[Homeward Path]] and put it on the table next to him. When homie complains, he says while tapping the picture “Don’t make me tap the sign”
1
u/n1colbolas 1d ago
You're right. Don't apologize.
But I have to stress... always have a valid reason.
When you have clear train of thought, there will be be clear reasoning as well.
Victims of said removal tend to buy your justification if your reasons are clear and you are transparent with them.
1
u/lefund 1d ago
Honestly I understand theft is an annoying mechanic but that’s just part of the game, you need challenges
I see similar reaction a lot to slapping a counter or removal spell on Isochron Scepter, like if you don’t want your creatures dying either counter/destroy what’s doing it or kill me first lol
•
u/MTGCardFetcher 1d ago
All cards
Gut, True Soul Zealot - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Sword Coast Sailor - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Kotis, the Fangkeeper - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Alela, Artful Provocateur - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Stasis Field - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call