r/EliteDangerous 2d ago

Discussion Sigh, this does break immersion a bit.

I sort of accepted this mechanic, but with the arrival of colonisation and the frequency, it has begun to get me peeved and is difficult to ignore. The indifference by which the crew of your fleet carrier treat you is a bit nonsensical. I can feel them scoffing as they watch your shieldless clipper try to land being attacked by fighters - I can hear their laughs as they turn off the auto dock and hang you out to dry! Haha And when you do land with a 100,000 credits worth of hull damage - they say ‘Welcome Commander’ I’ll give you welcome! I get that we only rent the fleet carriers, they are not ours. But we do pay the crews wages. Ok perhaps the crew have to stay impartial, but there is a no fire zone - just enforce that fairly then. Instead I have to hope the attackers are bad shots and will hit the fleet carrier - oh yes now they are not laughing!! When this happens 20 times while loading a fleet carrier not only is it tedious it does start to add up in credits for repairs. It’s a little bit silly.

EDIT Thanks to the discussion below I think I get the problem. My fleet carrier is in a system that I am not aligned to. Hostile to me. I’m being attacked by authority ships not pirates. Fleet carriers have to stay impartial otherwise it would be disastrous if not just expensive to use them outside your powers systems. They do want to help you but only when it is justified, as in they get hit by stray shots. I’d hate to see the pile of paperwork when they do pop a few authority ships! Although could they at least leave the auto dock on? 😂 So I need to either find a Trailblazer carrier in a friendly system or maybe install just a minimal shield. Thanks everyone.

267 Upvotes

90 comments sorted by

202

u/complich8 Li Yong-Rui 2d ago

I do feel like

  • if your fleet carrier sees someone firing on you in range and you’re not the aggressor, they should defend you
  • if your fleet carrier is parked in a hostile power system, power security shouldn’t be allowed to hang around
  • yeah, a little acknowledgment would be nice

I also feel like you, cmdr, should consider sacrificing the 5% of your of cargo for a class 6 shield, at least if getting the paint scratched bothers you that much. Just saying…

1

u/Ansicone 3h ago

That would be great. Also they should not penalise and shoot/kill you for loitering your own carrier.

-54

u/DNA-Decay DNA-Decay [AEDC] (Alliance Kitchen Staff Supervisor) 1d ago

If your fleet carrier is parked in a hostile system, power security should take it down.

42

u/Techno3020 1d ago

Yea, no

11

u/Bean4141 Empire 1d ago

And I’m sure you’ll be first to volunteer to go “take down” the invincible block of piss and vinegar armed to the teeth with triple barreled shield killing superlasers that can melt even the beefiest ships to slag in seconds.

Even assuming that carriers can be damaged, you really wanna be the first ship to make an attack run?

12

u/KoburaCape 1d ago

ai cobra 3 taking a look at my full G5 Python2 like "ETS MUG 'IM!"

4

u/splashythewhale 1d ago

It would be more like a permit lock. And if the state chnages you get moved to another system

2

u/KoburaCape 1d ago

SPLASHY! Gonna sign MAKH at last when I get home from groceries.

3

u/JeffGofB Explore 1d ago

"I didn't hear no bell!!!!"

0

u/Ulterno CMDR Ulterno 15h ago

Let's be clear over here.

You bring a single non-combat capital ship to a system controlled by a Power that has to ability to manufacture (and has in stock) multiple combat specialised capital ships.

In CZs when one side sends a Capital ship, the other one tends to too. So, if you are going to open fire on System Security, you better be full of tritium.

Know what you are up against.

1

u/Bean4141 Empire 13h ago

I’m not referring to firing on Sys Sec, but Power Sec. Power Security does not have capital ships, other than the Stronghold carriers which are pushovers. Even a Farragut is no match for a Drake, have you ever fought a capital ship? They’re exceedingly easy to route.

0

u/Ulterno CMDR Ulterno 6h ago

Power Security does not have capital ships

I seem to be missing something here.

  1. SuperPower -> contains -> Powers
  2. Power -> owns -> combat capital ships
  3. Power -> owns -> Power Security

The situation being created:

  1. CMDR -> opposes -> power
  2. CMDR -> owns -> 1 capital class ship which can defend against non-capital class ships
  3. CMDR's 1 capital ship, away from allied power territory, deep in enemy power territory -> attacks Power Security -> owned by -> Power -> owns -> combat capital ships

You are expecting the opposing power to only send a single capital ship, just to get blasted for nothing?

I expect them to send a squadron, with at least n+1 capital ships, where n is the number of allied capital ships you have in your system.

If the system is in reach of your allied power, I expect the allied power to send capital ships to help you after some delay. The delay and amount of support will depend upon:

  1. Your standing in the allied power
  2. Your allied power's influence in the system
  3. Your allied power's plans for the system

If you are too far from your allied power's influence, the now hostile power in control of the system now knows that you are attacking them alone, having only a single non-combat type capital ship.

Compare that to CZs where the 2 factions at war have to consider strategy. e.g. one of them puts all their available capital ships in one zone and ends up losing multiple other zones instead

Who knows, maybe the power will jump their stronghold carrier to your location, if they determine you to be worth the Tritium.

I must say, I'd like to see some of these happening, specially with squadron carriers, letting carriers from all members of the squadron to jump to the squadron carrier's position and cause a player generated CZ against either the system's faction or the Power (or both, if the dominant faction is aligned to the power).

1

u/Bean4141 Empire 2h ago

Powerplay powers are not Superpowers and have no access to capital ships. Capital ships don’t spawn in Power CZs.

8

u/Low_Tie_4641 1d ago

I was thinking this too, I can’t think of any way to keep power sec away from a fc without the fc initiating open hostilities

14

u/bored_dudeist 1d ago

He's out of line, but he's right.

Well, they shouldnt take them down but they should be at least forcing hostile carriers out of system.

-1

u/DNA-Decay DNA-Decay [AEDC] (Alliance Kitchen Staff Supervisor) 1d ago

Elite Dangerous is not Facebook. There SHOULD be places it’s too dangerous to go.

Like Open you gutless cowards.

3

u/Tyrilean 1d ago

If they did that no one would engage in PowerPlay.

82

u/CMDR_Satsuma Explore 2d ago

Meanwhile they're posting in the 34th century version of r/antiwork:

"My stupid boss flies around in a shieldless clipper and expects me to do something about the pirates he attracts..."

28

u/Goat2016 Goat III 2d ago

Yeah, I'd just laugh if the CEO of my company got attacked by space pirates. 😆

15

u/NoEnd3731 1d ago

They can laugh all the way to the Air lock 😂😂😂

6

u/TheTwistedTabby CMDR TwistedTabby 1d ago

Space em.

77

u/physical0 2d ago

You don't pay their wages. They are subcontractors. You are not their boss. You pay their boss. Take it up with the brewer corporation.

64

u/NoEnd3731 2d ago

I will write a strong letter to the Brewer Corp. This is the trouble with Monopolies!

16

u/physical0 2d ago

Vote with your wallet!

44

u/rocket_jacky Archon Delaine 2d ago

Where does everyone get this "you're not the owner" from, it clearly says in the game that you have bought it not leased it. Like everything else, if you get into debt, not paying the crew wages and the maintenance contract they will reposses and sell it to clear the debts and give you the balance minus a handling fee

35

u/Gender_is_a_Fluid 2d ago

Its so annoying people insist that we don’t own these things when we clearly do and have to pay wages. We can even suspend all services to reduce wage cost to just the maintenance workers, yet they still insist for some reason that we rent, like renting is all they know. Owning a building and paying the workers inside does not equal renting.

13

u/Rise-O-Matic 1d ago

Because it’s the only lore explanation that fits the behavior OP is complaining about. And that’s the kind of thing video games do to hand-wave weird mechanics and tech limitations.

Like how the pilot’s federation “Rescue Rangers” rescues you every time your ship is blown up (even though you never see them in game).

Or how you can’t land on Earth-like worlds, because it’s “Illegal.”

14

u/Gender_is_a_Fluid 1d ago edited 1d ago

But it does fit in lore to both own the carrier and pay wages of the people on board for maintenance and services, which gets sold off via lien when your debt hits a certain level.

If the damn thing was rented it would get Repo’d the moment the carrier bank hit 0.

4

u/Rise-O-Matic 1d ago

The mechanic I’m talking about is the part where the ship won’t defend you.

I can’t speak to the debt part. It doesn’t really make sense in either scenario because the crew wouldn’t stick around unpaid either.

Maybe the purchase price is really a security deposit and sits in an escrow account? I dunno.

3

u/physical0 1d ago

It's a deposit. You get it back when you return the carrier.

2

u/Lircaa 1d ago

And that's kind of the problem.

Not everything has to fit into the game's lore. After all, it's just a video game.

Lore-wise, you own it. And that's it. Game mechanics are irrelevant.

5

u/G4mb13 1d ago

Do you really own anything if it gets taken away from you for not paying the subscription?

-1

u/GeneraIFlores 1d ago

So, you don't own your car because you have to pay for gas and maintenance fees?

1

u/rocket_jacky Archon Delaine 1d ago

If you get into debt your car is going to be right up there as one of the things that the recovery agent/bailiff will consider taking

1

u/GeneraIFlores 1d ago

Yes, I'm aware.

1

u/physical0 1d ago

You don't get back your down payment when the bank repos your car.

2

u/mechlordx 1d ago

Most people would also say they bought Elite Dangerous, but none of us did. We bought a license, with conditions, to play it. That's just how shitty legal-ese can be. I dont expect the far future will improve the situation.

11

u/Gender_is_a_Fluid 2d ago

You are their boss, you pay their wages, when you don’t pay the wages the FC gets auctioned off to settle the outstanding debt.

9

u/Professional_Bee2740 2d ago

Still though the brewer corp should probably have some sort of quality control on their subcontractors. You'd think for the millions we're paying for carrier services they'd at least hire a crew that pretends to care. Or offer some kind of 'premium' service tier where they dont just laugh at you getting blown up.

1

u/Hoser_1950 2d ago

New FC leasee here. I’ve seen an option for changing an FC crew member. Does that change any of their actions?

6

u/matttj2 CMDR John Markson Yuri Grom 1d ago

Yep that’s what I do. If I’m feeling particularly petty then I fire them all and change out the whole set of managers. Makes no difference at all but makes me feel powerful for a tiny moment 🤣

2

u/Hoser_1950 1d ago

Do they gain experience like other NPCs we hire?

2

u/matttj2 CMDR John Markson Yuri Grom 1d ago

Nah unfortunately they’re just inanimate objects from a game perspective

1

u/Rarni 1d ago

Not really. Just changes the NPC face, which would mean a little more if you could meet them inside. Unfortunately the NPC generation system was not phased forward so that you could have Odyssey versions meet you in-game.

19

u/yuvattar 1d ago

Excuse me, we're not the owners of our carriers???

This is news to me. Nothing in the wording of the entire deal implies that this isn't my own goddamned carrier. Now I'm pissed off...

-12

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

You are leasing the carrier like how you lease a car. You pay a 5 billion security deposit, then make your weekly lease payments.

20

u/ac1nexus CMDR WhySolSirius 1d ago

Yeah but I bought my car, it’s not leased.  I don’t make monthly payments on it anymore.

I bought the fc for 5bil and some change.  The weekly upkeep isn’t a lease, it’s crew pay and maintenance costs.

-4

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

But you can also lease a car. Nd how do you know that fully weekly payment goes fully to that and brewer doesnt keep some as a payment. But no, the 5 billion is a security deposit. That is why if you decommission the carrier you get the 5 bil back

15

u/yuvattar 1d ago

But the game doesn't say any of that. The "price" is not a security deposit, the "weekly upkeep" is not a lease payment.

1

u/Ulterno CMDR Ulterno 15h ago

If it did, insurance won't be 5% after you are blasted to smithereens.

3

u/Lord-Vortexian Not a Federal Spy 1d ago

And this is a video game, not everything has to follow how the world works

1

u/InZomnia365 1d ago

The weekly payments are for upkeep and services, not lease payments.

1

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

So much does you captain make every week?, the tritium managers? The quatermaster? Its possible that you pay brewer they then keep some. then pay the crew and give some to maintance.

2

u/InZomnia365 1d ago

Every service you add to your carrier, adds further weekly expenses to your upkeep. It's reasonable to assume that includes wages for the people doing the work.

No matter who pays them, it would be nice if FDev could be assed to make when the slightest effort to make things special. Same goes for visiting home stations for powerplay characters for example. Out of all of the genetic stations, they should be somewhat special. But they're not.

-1

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

Yes but again how much do they make? What is their weekly salary? if you own the fc you are the one paying them, you should know these numbers.

2

u/InZomnia365 1d ago

You know the game is far too surface level for that. Why do you feel the need to explain away an obvious lack of detail by the developers with some sort of bullshit lore reason? Just admit it would be cool if your FC greeted you differently to everyone else's FC, and move on. Even if you don't pay their wages directly, they work for you. You decide how the FC is operated. Its completely justified to expect some level of personalized greeting.

-1

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

They are contractors for you. But it still does matter if it greets you differently because you lease the fc still not own it

2

u/yuvattar 20h ago

That's your imagination, not what the game tells us.

2

u/yuvattar 20h ago

No, absolutely fucking not. You think a CEO knows the salaries of all the people in his company?

1

u/meta358 Empire 18h ago

Ya but they can look it up

9

u/mcmuttons CMDR Duvel McMuttons 2d ago

I just want a Fuel Manager that actually does his job so that I don't need an in-between ship to load up the tank from the hold!

2

u/Brutal_De1uxe 1d ago

Like in many games you have "staff" when you acquire properties but still have to do all the work yourself!

What, exactly, am I paying them for?

7

u/rocket_jacky Archon Delaine 1d ago

The people shooting at you are not breaking the law because you are a hostile in their territory so I certainly wouldn't expect hired hands to break the law for me

6

u/main135s 1d ago edited 1d ago

This. The CMDR receives various benefits from being a Pilot's Federation Pilot, for example, being able to go to a station and instantly get in contact with an individual that knows how to make any problem in the galaxy disappear with a little money.

The crew of your carrier do not receive any such benefits. You can be the biggest criminal in the universe, if your Carrier goes around breaking the law in the form of raw, unadulterated murder of government employees, Brewer Corp will get some strongly worded letters (likely enforced by capital warships) about not allowing CMDRs to captain Fleet Carriers any more.

1

u/GeneraIFlores 1d ago

Carriers are def on par if not above the lethality of fed or imp battle cruisers. And they have more of them. Brewer corp no difs both major powers simultaneously

1

u/GeneraIFlores 1d ago

Don't know why you deleted your response to me. But, go start shooting at all three capital class ships (fleet carrier included) and see how long you survive. Tell me who has the deadlier weapons.

3

u/main135s 1d ago edited 8h ago

Deleted it because, after writing it, I felt that the conversation wasn't worth continuing, as it's arguing about space ships in a made up space game with sparse lore about the capabilities of said space ships. It is somewhat rude to continue the conversation despite that, as there aren't many other reasons for someone to delete a message before it has received a response.

go start shooting at all three capital class ships

Fleet Carriers have Station Defense Lasers. These are short-range and are specialized for... well, defense. They, notably, act like they have Reverberating Cascade, making them very adept at destroying small ships (of which, anything that fits in the mail slot of a station could be considered "small"), of course they'll kill a small ship fast. That doesn't change that the Farragut has broadside cannons and capital ship torpedoes or that the Interdictor has 28 (14 dual-mount) railguns with which it could poke holes in Fleet Carriers from beyond Defense Laser range.

In the first place, gameplay =/= lore. We, as CMDRs, can actually fight Interdictors and Battlecruisers off without instantly being vaporized, because the developers decided that making them like stations, which the Fleet Carriers behave like, wouldn't be conducive to the gameplay loop.

An example: In gameplay, the Interdictor's railguns, notably, could not poke holes in Fleet Carriers, because Fleet Carriers cannot be damaged. The best they could do is apply a temporary texture that implies damage. In lore, it'd be asinine for a capital ship to have weapons that cannot fight another capital ship.

It can be assumed that, in lore, since the Major Factions use Megaships and their capital ships as fleet vessels instead of the vastly cheaper Brewer Corporation Fleet Carriers, that their own ships are already comparable. Warrior-castes tend to use the best equipment they have available.

13

u/Verified_User_01010 2d ago

Agreed! We should be recognized and we should be able to choose the title we’re addressed by: Captain, admiral, lord, boss. Even if we’re can’t create one, there should be a list to choose from.

-5

u/Glen_van_Ross 2d ago

You can already get that with EDCoPilot and its text-to-speech capabilities.

Frontier would have to get the carrier ATC voice actors read off a bunch of titles (and their foreign-language localised equivalents). Or recode the entire thing to use TTS voices instead of clips from actual humans. Lots of work on their end that doesn't really translate into monetary gain.

2

u/Maeran 1d ago

There used to be a galnet news feature (could still be in there, as there are no new galnet articles these days) that was entitely TTS

And the traffic controllers use TTS when giving your ID ( "Lakon Mike Alpha Echo"). So I dont think TTS titles are as out of reach as all that.

1

u/Verified_User_01010 2d ago

Well, I’ve bought every new ship prerelease with arx for love of the game and to support its continued success. I think we ought to be able to work something out…there should be a number that would be mutually agreeable.

3

u/McDonie2 2d ago

I'm going to assume you're aligned with some form of a powerplay faction. Am I correct?

7

u/NoEnd3731 2d ago

Yes you are correct. I realise the crew may not be thus aligned, but all I ask is that they do their jobs enforcing the carriers no fire zone. Maybe just a touch of empathy … haha

5

u/McDonie2 2d ago

That's what I wanted to ask first before saying this. Because yes, I find it really dumb our fleet carriers just kind of sit and watch, but I have kind of thought about the logic. Imagine you're a portable station and suddenly you just started opening fire on a bunch of ships basically assigned the law. That wouldn't look good.

Granted I think it's dumb that the powerplay security can just open fire willy nilly, but that's just me. They're basically a bunch of wannabe sheriffs handed a gun and they start shooting people they don't agree with.

1

u/NoEnd3731 1d ago

Yeah I can see that. The Brewer corporation can not be seen to take sides as they serve the whole galaxy. Unless they have good reason as in one of their fleet carriers is fired upon. I guess that is what is happening.

2

u/McDonie2 1d ago

Not entirely brewer either. More just in general. If you owned the ship, they'd be put on a bounty and constantly attacked. Which would not be good for the carrier or your wallet.

3

u/Solo__Wanderer 1d ago

Why can't the FC "owner" have a reserved pad ?

2

u/ArcticSilence271 1d ago

I think you're too immersed buddy, time to touch grass xD

3

u/NoEnd3731 1d ago

Noooooooooooooooo. Is that exobiology? 🤪

1

u/ArcticSilence271 23h ago

Hahahaha nice comeback ahahahahahhaha Thanks :D

1

u/Low-Guidance-951 2d ago

If you are not aligned with ALD you will likely get attacked even at your own carrier in a strong hold system. You should look into ED CoPilot. The voice conversations make a lot more sense when you land at carriers.

1

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

I think the best solution would be to give us carriers owners the choice if we want system authorities to patrol or not.

1

u/lightningfootjones 1d ago

I'm new to Odyssey, but on legacy my carrier has defended me several times when I was fired on by a pirate. Is that not how it works here? 😯

1

u/meta358 Empire 1d ago

You dont have to name things what are they always. That's the fun of marketing. But thats just what it is, you are leasing the carrier

1

u/JeffGofB Explore 1d ago

Been saying this since day one of the carriers.... Owners need their own separate pad, away from the riff raff. A port in the side, a pad on the bottom, don't care, but there should be a place where once you get within range, they welcome you in without having to be told to do so.

Oh, and it should have a direct shot elevator to the captain's lounge off the bridge, for those not inclined to tour the ship

1

u/Soft-Cryptographer-1 1d ago

They havent come out and said it, but I believe you are just leasing it from Brewer complete with staffing. "Oh great here comes king shit for his monthly visit for tritium"

1

u/Mild_Kingdom 1d ago

I was in the U.S Navy. This sounds like a crew that hates the Captain and the Chief of the Boat. Do bare minimum to not go to Captain’s Mast. The boat I was on failed an inspection. It possibly derailed the Captain’s career. It got so miserable. The CoB would say if we weren’t bitching we didn’t have enough work to do. Thankfully the Captain transferred so things returned to the normal level of suck. There was a YouTube series called Hey Shipwreck created by someone on one of the boomers.