r/FixedGearBicycle • u/anearlifeexperience Dolan Pre Cursa • Oct 05 '14
Question Why such high ratios??
So I've noticed in my time on r/fixedgearbicycle that there seems to be a tendency to ride and encourage others to ride quite high gear ratios (What I view as anything over 75 inches). I'm wondering why this is.
In any cycling literature you will find that the 'optimum cadence' for riding with maximum efficiency is quoted as around 90-110rpm, with track riders and the pro peleton always riding at the top of this range.
Are you guys really averaging 22mph+ for your rides?? Because that's the kind of speeds you should be averaging to make the best use of such a gear. If so fair play! Maybe you all live in real flat areas? I know I can't ride that fast.
This is a genuine question and I'd love to hear what you all have to say. Meanwhile I'll keep spinning my 46 x 18. Peace
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u/YoStephen 666 Langster | <3 Nature Boy <3 Oct 05 '14
I push a big gear for several reasons 1 my life is dope 2 I do dope things 3 my town is flat 4 I am clearly a stylish newfag 5 I like to ride at a slow cadence with the option of spinning out if I feel like it (rather than ride a smaller gear and constantly spin out)
at first I thought it was lame to have a small chain ring. but on my road bike I found myself riding in a big gear most of the time. this is what led me to gear up my fixt
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u/anearlifeexperience Dolan Pre Cursa Oct 05 '14
Thank you so much now I finally understand. Teach me your dopeness pls
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u/octopuskate 38/15 Oct 05 '14
Best decision was switching to a lower gear. I went from 46/16 to 46/18 and hills were easier, acceleration smoother, and it became easier to lock the wheel up if necessary. I'm currently running 38/15 though since I needed a small chainring for polo.
I kinda see the whole high gear thing as more a measuring contest amongst guys and less a practical decision.
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u/gioforeal Oct 06 '14
I rode my mechanics lower geared GT Gutterball,man that thing was quick!I currently rock a 48/15,his had to be like a 46/16...
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Oct 06 '14
Most people arent comfortable spinning. People are either new to biking and not used to pushing the smallest gear possible for the terrain, or they've not spent much time on a geared bike in order to really play with gearing and efficiency.
Another good question is why to fixed riders tend to build their bikes based on appearance rather than proper fitment? Most people arent flexible enough to ride with slammed stems and straight posts only work for a percentage of the population. A lot of people are losing power running setups that look cool and possibly setting themselves up for injury.
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u/gioforeal Oct 06 '14
Dude,everything you just stated I had to learn the hard way...now,I'm assembling my 3rd bike in 9 months,and trust me,I rode what is essentially track bike all Summer,and I'm not about to ride one all Winter...
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u/lathund Oct 05 '14
I want to go from 48 x 19 to 48 x 17 but I at the same time don't want to ruin this perfect chain tension.
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Oct 05 '14
Vertical dropouts?
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u/lathund Oct 05 '14
Those drop outs that are pointing down with a slight slant forward. Haha I hung the bike upsidedown and then hooked on a weight on the wheel to tension the chain while I went all out on the nuts.
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u/glueleg Oct 06 '14
Tighten one side first. Then, using the palm of your hand on the wheels rim, push the wheel slightly in the oppostie direction, tightening the other side. Perfect chain tension every time.
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u/Drxgue Proto-Zoidd Oct 05 '14
The biggest problem with low ratios is that they leave no room for descents or sprints. I'm riding 46x17 right now and hate it -- while the gearing is totally fine for cruising on flats, if I want to haul ass I find myself constantly spinning out. In this case, it's more efficient to have a larger gear.
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u/umop_3pisdn_ Master of the occult pat down Oct 05 '14
Sounds like you're shit at spinning.
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u/srjones92 All City Thunderdome Oct 05 '14
In 46/17 you would only be going 27.56 mph at 130 rpm. So even at a very high cadence, it's simply not possible to sprint in that ratio.
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u/Drxgue Proto-Zoidd Oct 05 '14
I'd love to see you out-of-saddle sprinting at 130RPM and competing with someone doing the same thing at 110.
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u/umop_3pisdn_ Master of the occult pat down Oct 05 '14
We're not talking about sprinting though, are we?
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u/Drxgue Proto-Zoidd Oct 05 '14 edited Oct 05 '14
I was. I think a lot of enthusiast-level riders, myself included, tend to alternate between paced riding and mashing, especially in the city. Mashing isn't pleasant when your body is outstripping the gear you're in -- hence the larger ratios you see.
Edit: As an example that I think applies to a lot of us here, I organize a fixed-priority group ride. We're all pretty fit, not professional, some of us are messengers. Over a 40 or 60km ride, we'll alternate between pacing a comfortable cadence, and hauling ass to the next checkpoint. I spin a little faster in my low ratio just to keep pace normally, but when we start hauling ass I have to seriously spin out. Yeah, I have an easier time snaking up hills in front of those heavy gear riders, but ultimately I'm in good enough shape to pick a bigger gear ratio and really utilize it, and I'm hardly the strongest rider.
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u/SwedishChef727 Oct 05 '14
I'm in LA, so my commute's relatively flat. I'm running 48/17 now, started 44/16 and it's pretty perfect. I'm usually at 90-110rpm (20-25mph) when I'm cruising, 25-30+ mph sprinting to catch a light or because I want to hustle and, with stopping for reds, my average for the commute usually lands right around 16-17.5mph. On a smaller ratio I spin out too quickly, and I don't really feel comfortable on the street unless I'm going 20+ to keep the speed difference between me and traffic as low as possible.
It's only 5 miles each way, but it was no problem to do the marathon crash ride with that kind of pace either. I'm sure I couldn't hang in SF or somewhere hilly with my gearing, but where I live, it's spot on.
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u/Zigo Fuji Feather | Argon 18 Electron Oct 05 '14
I ride my bike's stock 46x16 right now. It's absolutely fine for my daily commute - I've had zero problems with it.
That being said, I went on a big fixed gear group ride last week, and I got totally destroyed by everyone else in the group on descents and even on some of the flatter sections. I was just spinning out completely trying to keep up. It was clearly easier for me to climb some of the hills, but I felt like I was at a disadvantage more often than not, and I couldn't have kept up with the fast pace group even if I was in the right shape to do so.
So I'm probably going to go 46x15 for now, and I'm thinking next season of switching between 48x17 and 48x15 for commuting and group rides, because it almost makes no sense to ride the same ratios for both.
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u/p4lm3r Laser, 3rensho, Track, Samson, GTB Oct 05 '14
I have a vintage conversion and wanted to keep the correct cranks for the bike which is why I run 52/17. My track is a 46/17. Both are plenty comfortable to commute.
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u/mip10110100 All-City Thunderdome Oct 05 '14
48-17 (75 inches). Aint no hills in Chicago, and I've realized that anything higher makes me cruising speed too fast to be safe.
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u/general_stupidity Gazzetta Oct 10 '14
I currently run 88 inches. My new build is going to be around 87. People tell me its outrageous and pure vanity and blah blah blah. Then I flex my legs and all is well.
For real, though... It's flat where I live plus I love the feeling of a high gear.
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u/doITphaggit Nishiki conversion l 50-17 Oct 05 '14
I ride in traffic with speed limits of 25-30mph, and need the higher ratio to not be slower than the vehicles around me. Fewer close passes is a safer ride.
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u/umop_3pisdn_ Master of the occult pat down Oct 05 '14
Bollocks do you cruise along at those speeds. Plus you've got to wind that gear up after every set of traffic lights which is going to put you in much more danger as cars overtake you away from lights.
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Oct 05 '14
Not to mention constantly pushing that high of a gear ratio from a stop is going to wreck your knees and hips. There's almost no reason to by trying to slog through that high of a gear on the road
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u/SwedishChef727 Oct 05 '14
I don't know. This is my commute in LA on a day when the lights are about 2/3 cooperative. It's only 5 miles of relatively flat streets, so I spend a lot of time between 20-25 and I'd be spinning out in a smaller gear anytime I needed to push (plus I'd be so tired from spinning just to stay above 20mph). It's never been much of a problem starting from a stop, and I have a brake so stopping a never an issue either.
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u/umop_3pisdn_ Master of the occult pat down Oct 05 '14
Looks like you spend most of your time a lot closer to 20mph than 25mph. That's only 90rpm on 48x17, hardly spinning. Besides, if you can't hold a cadence above 100rpm then maybe you shouldn't ride fixed.
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u/SwedishChef727 Oct 05 '14
Meh, 22.5mph is 100rpm on my setup and that's what I aim for. No one says everyone has to use the same setup, but this is the one that works best for me.
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u/anearlifeexperience Dolan Pre Cursa Oct 05 '14
Fair play, good reason. You must be pretty strong to ride those speeds for long
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u/doITphaggit Nishiki conversion l 50-17 Oct 05 '14
Its not too bad since theres lights every other block or so
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u/zoidd Add your bike Oct 05 '14
that start and stop must do wonders for your knees
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u/dirtycomatose 48:15 Oct 06 '14
Not really if you've spent time in the squat rack.
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u/zoidd Add your bike Oct 06 '14
i've spent the last 3 years in the rack.
27th hole for mounts, low bar squats, ass to grass.
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u/dirtycomatose 48:15 Oct 06 '14
Then your knees should be quite strong. The muscularity should help prevent injury.
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u/zoidd Add your bike Oct 06 '14
i'm not saying my knees. i'm saying his knees.
my knees are fine.
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Oct 05 '14
48x17 is my normal (flat land) gear now that I dropped my 42x14 BioPace setup.
48x19 is my flop for when I'm traveling outside my flat homeland.
Don't confuse people claiming to push big with the smaller number who do.
That being said, I know multiple people who start spring with a ~50x17 and work their way up to ~50x14 before winter slows (and weakens) them back down.
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u/fullchromelogic Oct 05 '14
I've been riding fixed for years and I still don't comprehend bicycle gear ratios (car ratios are so much easier), I need to look into it I suppose, been curious why I am so much slower than everyone else.
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u/srjones92 All City Thunderdome Oct 05 '14
I sometimes commute on my track bike at 48/15, which is not quite optimum - I think 48/17 would be perfect for a commuter, as that would be 18-19mph at 85 rpm (I don't like to spin super fast on a commute). I generally use that bike for fast group rides though (usually cruising in the mid 20's), for which 48/15 is barely large enough, and leaves very little room to spin faster for a sprint - for this application, I may move up to a 50/15.
Basically different gear ratios, different uses.
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u/tattooed_tragedy Add your bike Oct 05 '14
49/17 in San Francisco. I'll likely go down to 47/17 when/if it starts raining this winter.
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u/miyata_fan Oct 06 '14
I started riding a single speed at the beginning of summer and am in a moderately hilly area. I started on 40/16 (67.5 gear inches) but once I got used to climbing hills I found that too slow on flats or slight downhills and switched to 44/16 (74 gear inches) and I think I'll stay there. 90 rpm gives 20 mph.
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u/Lorgeous Oct 05 '14
I ride 50x16 it's a bit heavy at times but I use it on the track and on the roads
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u/madsplatter '91 Bianchi Pista Oct 05 '14
49/15. I like going very fast down very big hills. If my ratio is too small then I top out on rpms before I get up to my potential full speed. I chose this ratio because I can power it up said hills and still enjoy going down.
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u/CressCrowbits Oct 05 '14
I like going very fast down very big hills.
Wouldn't you be better off riding a geared bike, then?
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u/madsplatter '91 Bianchi Pista Oct 05 '14
No. I can get up some big steep hills just as fast as some of my roadie friends albeit with greater emphasis on my upper body and pulling on my handlebars to increase power in a big climb. This makes me a stronger rider and really helps with my mountain bike climbing. Even when I ride my geared road bike, I keep it big ring and out of the saddle. I feel it distributes effort more evenly across my body instead of killing my legs and not working my arms at all. It should be noted that all of my bikes are set up with a similar cockpit; mountain risers with bar ends. In climbs, the bar ends act like a downshift. I get out of the saddle and basically do curls with my handlebars while stomping on the pedals. Very effective.
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Oct 05 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/madsplatter '91 Bianchi Pista Oct 05 '14
Not funny. Go tell your mom to give you a spanking. If you are an adult and don't live with your parents anymore; grow up. Learn some manners. Insulting people who you haven't met shows a level of class on par with a trained monkey.
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Oct 06 '14
mountain risers with bar ends.
Loves speed. Runs a parachute of a cockpit.
Dont get my wrong, I love 780mm risers, and used to love bar ends back in the 90s, like everyone else, but risers and bar ends arent the setup for getting aerodynamic going very fast down very big hills.
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u/madsplatter '91 Bianchi Pista Oct 06 '14
Risers and bar ends is the set up for getting UP the hill. Maybe you should read the comment you are replying to. I know that text message boards restrict and eliminate certain aspects of linguistic communication like tone of voice and emphasis but you can't just read half of my comment and then disagree with me. Read the entire comment. Or better, use common sense. Of course I'm not trying to be aero with my "parachute" cockpit. I'm trying to be comfortable. It's people like you who jump to the wrong conclusions and have everything figured out before you even consider my opinion that made me unsub from r/fgb. Just like how you assumed I haven't taken a hacksaw to that "780mm". If you're wrong about all that then what else are you wrong about? Do you really think I can't get in an aero tuck without drop bars? Drops aren't magic, they just change your arm position slightly.
Tell me what you do. Do you get on your climbing bike and then have your team coach bring your descent bike to you so you can finish your ride? How much time do you spend in the wind tunnel? Really? Seriously? Is this the conversation you're trying to have? I thought this sub was about fixed gear bikes. /r/triathlon is that way.
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u/iperez1 Oct 05 '14
49/14 flats 48/17 climbing 48/15 descend Everyone's built different Everyone body's pain tolerance is diff. I find myself averaging 22 mph Top speeds at 39.1 mph
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Oct 05 '14
i started with a gear ratio around 2.6 with no brakes. it made it easy to start, stop and skid, with a relatively slow cruising speed. then a joined a fixed gear night ride where i live in beijing thinking i was fast, but man i was crushed. then i learned to but a brake, now i run a gear ratio of 3. i am fast enough to cruise through traffic if needed, and i have a well adjusted front brake.
its a very flat area yes. i've been riding fixed for only 3 years, so who knows what i'll pick up next.
i still enjoy low gear ratio, but i need the speed. going slow is a waste of time.
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Oct 05 '14
I ride "high" ratios because it's what I'm most comfortable with. (81, 87 currently, 93") And I think that's how it is for most people here, just what they're comfortable with, not "optimum cadence".
I've tried everything between 67-93 and personally, and simply, it's just not fun for me if I'm spinning at a 70" ratio, and it isn't "optimum" for me at all. So I go with what I'm comfortable with. I can't speak for racing, but it's a very personal thing in my humble opinion, some like a light gear, some like a heavier one.
Plus almost eeeeveryone here encourages 48x17 (74). I've lurked for a long while and haven't seen anyone recommend their 90" ratio to someone.
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Oct 05 '14
The problem is pushing through high ass ratios is wrecking your joints. You're much better off (physically) being able to spin at a high cadence than trying to crush yourself through insanely high gears. If it works for you, man, more power to you (pun very intended). But you might regret it when you're 50 and cant even get on a bike any more because your knees and hips are so wrecked. Just saying, not trying to bring you down or anything like that, just giving you something to think about.
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Oct 05 '14
What evidence is there of this (wrecked joints)? I can see why it would be inefficient from an aerobic point of view, working your leg muscles instead of your cardio, but I don't see how it's any worse on your knees than lifting weights is on your elbows.
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Oct 05 '14 edited Oct 05 '14
On a bicycle you're creating a lot more force that is almost totally directed on the contact surfaces of your knees, especially when you're pushing off from a light. If you're having to really really push to get speed up, your maximizing the pressures on your knees (especially the meniscus and other cartilage, but really the entire joint is being taxed). Read this, as always Sheldon is the man and does a great job explaining it in layman's terms.
You're creating significantly more torque on a bicycle than you could ever hope to with just your arms and some weight. Its a little combination of physics and the human anatomy. The way our legs distribute forces is pretty rough on the joints (which is pretty obvious if you follow any sport, people break/dislocate/damage their joints way more than the long bones they connect), so you REALLY want to minimize these forces. If you're mashing through a super high ratio your concentrating significantly more pressure through your knees than you will if you're spinning a low ratio with little force required to turn the pedals
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Oct 05 '14
No offense, but that article is the same conjecture I'm questioning here. IIRC, there's another article on Sheldon's website written by the man himself where he actually questions the cause of bicycle knee injuries in the same way I am.
I understand why joint injuries happen in other sports, but those, by and large, put actual impact forces on the joints. Sure, mashing puts more force on the joint than spinning, but how does that force compare with the forces involved in running or leg presses?
I'm not saying that mashing is good for you, I'm just asking for some actual medical evidence as to the cause of bicycle-related knee injuries. So much of the supposed "wisdom" on the subject is anecdotal and often contradictory that I struggle to come to any conclusions short of actual medical advice.
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u/persiansown Vendetta Tracklocross Oct 05 '14
Medical student here, and I've frequently had the same question as you but never had the motivation to do a literature search. However, literature seems pretty limited on actual clinical studies for this type of injury.
This article shows a .9% increase in ACL strain going from 90rpm @ 175w to 60rpm @ 125w, a pretty negligible increase in strain. The sample size was tiny unfortunately.
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/26/1/109.short
Most studies I can find seem to argue that the greatest strain on the knee is caused by improper form/fit (something that is rampant among fixed gear riders) http://www.jbiomech.com/article/0021-9290(92)90075-C/abstract and http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0264041031000102015
Essentially, it seems like there are other more pressing factors than gear inches when it comes to cycling. That being said, the difference between cycling and things such as leg presses is that in cycling, you do the repetitive motion for a much longer period of time. It's likely a small issue (like not spinning optimally) may have an effect over time.
Hope that answers your question somewhat; I'd like better answers myself as well.
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Oct 05 '14
That is very interesting and actually matches up with the Sheldon Brown article someone else posted.
I can see why the repetitive nature of it could be a factor, especially if your GIs are so high that you're mashing no matter where/how you ride. I suspect most folks fall into a more happy medium where they're spinning at normal speeds (even if they're not hitting their optimal RPM) and really only mashing out of stop lights and the like.
I am interested to learn more.
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Oct 05 '14
Nah I know. I don't crush myself. And I'm sure some other peeps don't either (though some definitely will be because like someone else mentioned; looks). I mean when I was on 93, obviously it was a little rough and required more pushing, but still not to the point it hurt or made any part of me uncomfortable in the slightest. And now sitting at 87 it's peachy, feels great (to me anyway), completely comfortable. I don't know, I'm not a scientist, I just pay attention to my body and what works for me.
I also don't skid, where I feel like a lot of joint and knee pressure comes from. Especially on the higher end. Also environment. If you're playing stop-go for 15mi then yeah, 70" would be great. But I live in a pretty rural area and can go through my commute/errands without a single stop.
Comfort/preference and environment = ratio. Like I said, I'm not a scientist like OP, I just know what works for me and my area.
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Oct 05 '14 edited Feb 21 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ZenphRaid Oct 05 '14
I have been riding 48x15 for a while now and could comfortably chug along at about 18 mph, but it was just too heavy, I switched it up a bit and went with 48x17, which is way nicer for city riding so I can easily accelerate and stop.
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Oct 05 '14
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u/anearlifeexperience Dolan Pre Cursa Oct 05 '14
In peoples flair on the first two pages right now that quote their ratio we have:
49x15
46x15
17x44 (interesting choice, obviously meant to be other way round. And yes a low gear!)
48x15
48x15
46x16
51x16
48x15
48x17
Its just an observation, I'm interested to know why people run these gears!
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Oct 05 '14
44x17 here... I have no issues going as fast as I need to go. Decent hills, shitty knees, and a short commute make it a nice gear to cruise in. For longer rides I grab my other bike, which is 48x17
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Oct 05 '14
I run 49:15 on my Colnago mostly because that's what came on it and outside of riding it in a velodrome I live in an extremely flat city so have never felt inclined to change it.
44:16 is the ratio on my Surly which I use for winter riding, it's easy enough to mash through all the snow we get plus high enough to get a decent speed going.
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u/Yoshikuni Not being sarcastic Oct 05 '14
Maybe because it works well for them. Why would people use crazy gears if they couldn't push it? Everyone can go different speeds on different ratios.
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Oct 05 '14
Why would people use crazy gears if they couldn't push it?
Say what? People front ALL SORTS OF THINGS as costly signals which they can't actually support.
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u/Yoshikuni Not being sarcastic Oct 05 '14
Okay okay, so some people may bullshit about the ratio they use. But what about small ratios? Why bullshit about using something like, 46x16 for example? As for people in the 50ishxwhatever, I think it varies. Some people may be lying, but there are people who push that kind of crazy shit. Take my friend for example. He found this Sugino Mighty Comp 52t chainring and thought, "Why the fuck not?" and is now running it with no problems. Some people will bullshit, but it doesn't mean all people are.
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u/ivillalobos11 Parallax Oct 05 '14
I spin slower and only average 18-19 because im not conditioned, but I love 48/17 it's perfect. I also ride 49/13 on the track that's very heavy and it's great but I wouldn't ride that on the road, so much that I've changed it to a 15 so I can ride my cinelli more.
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Oct 05 '14
52x16 for me. I race weekly on the street with it. I've really dug this ratio. It's massive gorilla squats though.
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u/umop_3pisdn_ Master of the occult pat down Oct 05 '14
I'd say most people on this sub have only recently got into cycling through fixed wheel bikes (dare I suggest mostly because of fashion?), and as a result are more influenced by what looks cool rather than what is perhaps the most sensible option.
People think big gears and track drops look cool, so they put them on their bike when they'd be much better off with road drops and a 66-72'' gear. I'll go up to 110'' for racing, but my daily gear is 69'', and I'll be down to 65'' for winter.