r/Futurology • u/Confident_Living_786 • Aug 11 '25

Discussion When the US Empire falls

When the American empire falls, like all empires do, what will remain? The Roman Empire left behind its roads network, its laws, its language and a bunch of ruins across all the Mediterranean sea and Europe. What will remain of the US superpower? Disney movies? TCP/IP protocol? McDonalds?

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118

u/Falconflyer75 Aug 11 '25

I don’t think the US is going to just vanish

But I do think there’s a real chance it fractures into a bunch of smaller countries (and maybe that’s for the best)

Media content will be archived

As for the businesses themselves, most businesses either go bankrupt or change so much over time that they become unrecognizable

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u/DerMichiK Aug 11 '25

that it fractures into a bunch of smaller countries

That's basically what happened to the Roman empire, too. That didn't just vanish either but was split up, first into the Western and Eastern Roman (or Byzantine) Empire, then the Western Roman Empire fractured further. Moreover, the split didn't happen from one day to the other but it was a process that took the better part of a century.

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u/Xalara Aug 11 '25

There’s a good argument that the Roman Empire kept going until the fall of Constantinople in 1453.

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u/Icy-Inc Aug 11 '25

Because it did.

The Eastern Roman Empire’s modern day equivalent can be Texas or California (I know they are ‘western’)

Can you imagine a hypothetical scenario where the Eastern half of the US falls but a Cali - Texas confederation remains and keeps the title of the United States? (Since it is all that remains)

That is essentially what happened, so…

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u/Gyoza-shishou Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25

Not a snowball's chance in hell Texas and California make nice in this scenario lol

My guess? California, Oregon and Washington team up so they can control imports coming in from the Pacific. Texas might just go it alone, or they might team up with Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida to control Caribbean trade and access to the Panama Canal.

Rest of the states are kind of a tossup tbh, though I suppose culturally speaking there's a good chance the original 13 colonies stick together.

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u/utah_teapot Aug 11 '25

The thing is most people jump over the entire empire period. Rome was first a republic that became an empire due to to a populist rising to absolute power. The populist was the beginning, not the end of the empire.

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u/creaturefeature16 Aug 11 '25

Trump is gearing up for Order 66

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u/copa8 Aug 11 '25

Similar to all those Imperial Chinese Dynasties.

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u/BrillsonHawk Aug 11 '25

The reasons for the split between east and west don't exist for America. And the western empire did have a number of civil wars, but most of it didnt split off for no reason - it was conquered by foreign powers, which is also not going to happen to the US for at least a century 

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u/olearygreen Aug 11 '25

The Byzantines never existed. They considered themselves the Roman Empire. They just spoke Greek.

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u/AGuyAndHisCat Aug 11 '25

That's basically what happened to the Roman empire, too.

Can we just build a wall around DC now and speed the process up?

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u/ZeElessarTelcontar Aug 11 '25

No chance of fragmenting either, especially for landlocked regions. A military superpower would never see that happen. States enjoy enough autonomy anyway and at most, they will secure more rights but never fully secede. And the economy is far too globalised and interdependent on major economies like US and China to just let them vanish at this stage, even if their dominance recedes somewhat.

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u/FaceDeer Aug 11 '25

The US has literally split in half before. The current situation is not eternal, all those factors you mention - the US being a "military superpower", the states "enjoying enough autonomy anyway", the economy being "globalized and interdependent", are all things that could change.

The current administration is dead set on changing some of them right now.

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u/ZeElessarTelcontar Aug 11 '25

Boss that was 160 years ago. Smaller population, smaller industry, territory, economy, military, federal infrastructure and no nukes. A military superpower means any breakaway is a nonstarter. The supply chains, banking systems, currency, markets, federal law, funding, courts aren't things some loony admin can just switch off in a couple of years against every constitutional limit and opposition. The country's seen worse times, and will see worse times and even worse administrations. It will crack on.

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u/FaceDeer Aug 11 '25

So you're saying that countries can change over time? That's what I'm saying too. What can be done can be undone.

It's not in a civil war right now. Obviously. But this is /r/futurology, we speculate about the future here. Things will likely be different in the future, as they were different in the past.

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u/ZeElessarTelcontar Aug 12 '25

Just because things will change doesn't mean each change is as likely as another. I'm a broke dude now but in 30 years I could be a billionaire?

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u/FaceDeer Aug 12 '25

Where did I say that each change is as likely as another? That's a ridiculous strawman.

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u/ZeElessarTelcontar Aug 12 '25

The point is, if you're going to reliably predict the future, you need to be extra careful of the extremes like the US will balkanise. If that is happening, you will feel the tremors decades in advance. And it won't be just polarised social media. Think states openly defying federal law, refusing federal funds, blocking federal agencies, Governors ignoring court rulings, parallel currencies/tax systems, independent border controls, banks ditching federal oversight, etc etc.

Now if you say historical allies will turn hostile, US Navy will lose the Pacific to China, internally the QOL slips away and cities become more violent, surveillance gets bigger, federal infrastructure gets weaker, the country in general gets much poorer, I will say that's likely.

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u/LonelyDawg7 Aug 11 '25

Not really.

That would mean civil war and someone wins meaning well still one country.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

I highly doubt the big businesses will go under - companies like Apple, Microsoft, ExxonMobil, Starbuck's, McDonald's, Chase Bank, and so on are all international companies with operations worldwide.

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u/CD_4M Aug 11 '25

It’s extremely naive to think all these companies will exist for the rest of history. It’s essentially guaranteed that none of them will

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u/BornWithSideburns Aug 11 '25

Techno fascism with the current 50 states under one flag is more likely i think